Bitcoin Hits New All-Time High Above $65K (coindesk.com) 134
Bitcoin, the world's largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization, has hit a new all-time high above $65,000. From a report: The crypto broke above its previous high of $64,889 reached in April. Bitcoin is currently changing hands for around $65,607, up 4.2% over the past 24 hours. The latest rally pushed bitcoin's year-to-date terms to 122%, according to CoinDesk data. The largest cryptocurrency appears to have gotten a push on Tuesday from the launch of the ProShares Bitcoin Strategy ETF, the first exchange-traded fund approved by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to invest in bitcoin futures. Indeed, the new fund, traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the ticker $BITO, garnered a first-day trading volume of more than $1 billion, ranking it among the most successful launches of all time.
Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you ever notice how the bitcoin bros are always boasting about the price of it while trashing fiat currencies? And how they always use a fiat value to compare its price with?
Without fiat to give it value, their precious bitcoin is worthless.
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:5, Funny)
If I sent you one bitcoin, would you delete it because it's worthless?
Re: (Score:1)
Still waiting for that crash that the financial wizards of slashdot have been predicting for a decade now...
Still waiting for bitcoin to hit $100K like the bitcoin bros [urbandictionary.com] have been promising everyone for years now...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Interestingly, it's reached 65K on the heels of the news that Sinclair Broadcasting was hit with a Russian ransomware attack. Guess the 'market' demand for Bitcoin got a bump from that...
Re: Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:1)
Itâ(TM)s been trending up for a few weeks. No notion where it hit a 50% drop as OP mentioned, but market values of commodity backed currency is supposed to be somewhat volatile. The only reason we have stable fiat currencies is because every loss is socialized by printing cash (inflation). Hence why we now see 20% inflation rates across markets, people are losing trust in the printers.
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:5, Insightful)
If I sent you one bitcoin, would you delete it because it's worthless?
I'd sell it for real money. A "currency" that isn't usable as a currency, but whose only claim to value is that someone else will buy it from me for more than I paid for it - in real money - just can't last. I just don't want to be the one holding the bag when it plummets as everyone recognizes the emperor's new clothes [wikipedia.org] - or the digital tulip.
The massive pollution caused by this pointless work makes me sad.
Re: (Score:1)
I bought $500 worth of Bitcoin and Ethereum with the government money last year and the value is currently at $936.
I am curious to see if that investment (which was free to me) continues to go up over the coming years.
Even if I lose it all, I risked nothing. Thanks US government!
Re: (Score:1)
Even if I lose it all, I risked nothing. Thanks US government!
No, you risked exactly $500.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
No, it wasn't free. There was an opportunity cost.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
What other opportunity could have given him 100% in a year?
Just about any form of gambling. You wouldn't even need to wait a year.
Re: Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:2)
This is such a silly argument. Make a graph of country flips. Start at 0, flip the coin, and heads is +1 with tails -1. Repeat this a 100 times and see if the graph looks anything like Bitcoin.
This site use to be a site for nerds...
Re: Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:2)
*coin flips. shitty phone
Re: (Score:3)
What other opportunity could have given him 100% in a year?
Are you kidding? First, that was only an 87% gain, not 100%. So how about these:
TSLA - 105% 1 year gain
GOOG - 83% 1 year gain
MRNA - 367% 1 year gain
And at least those all have something behind its value. But if you want to go something a bit more speculative, where the gains weren't tied to the real value of some backing business:
GME - 1239% 1 year gain
AMC - 1212% 1 year gain
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
I'd sell it for real money.
So it's not worthless? Make up your mind.
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:5, Insightful)
So it's not worthless? Make up your mind.
Not today it's not. But tomorrow is anyone's guess. I have a pretty good idea what the US Dollar will be worth at the end of the year, but bitcoin? Maybe Musk will tweet that he has sex with bits and it'll shoot past 100k, maybe the grand delusion will end and it drops to zero. Anyone's guess.
I wish you the best of luck on your endeavours, god knows luck is the only thing that will bring you any success.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a pretty good idea what the US Dollar will be worth at the end of the year
What will it be?
Re: (Score:3)
A fraction of a percent worth less than now in line with inflation figures that are controlled by policy through the central bank.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
"I have a pretty good idea what the US Dollar will be worth at the end of the year"
Not as much as a Bitcoin.
Re: (Score:2)
Well it's now tomorrow and the price is still $65k.
Re: (Score:2)
Congratulations on getting lucky assuming $65k was your guess.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
Granted, there is a pollution footprint of almost anything including banks and financial systems (armored trucks aren't exactly net-zero carbon), bitcoin will never, ever be anything but a huge sink on resources and a huge polluter. The ends do not justify the means, there has to be a better way than the way bitcoin is doing it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
So you'd throw away a free $65k? Christ you're dumb.
Re: (Score:2)
Why not just send it directly to a bitcoin miner, and save on the environmental cost of so many transactions?
Re: (Score:2)
I'd pawn it off on another sucker before I'm left holding the bag.
Re: (Score:2)
In order for you to send me such a thing, I'd have to have a "bitcoin wallet" for it to be transferred to. Having such a thing would imply that I agree to the concept, which I do not.
You can't force me to accept it.
After governments get done regulating it (Score:1)
What's that Bitcoin really worth? (Score:2)
I'd trade my Bitcoin for a tulip bulb. Higher intrinsic value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The article says peak tulip prices were around 10 to 15 years of salary for a "skilled craftsworker". If I ever qualified as such and rounding up generously from my peak earnings, then I think that's more than $10 million in ye olde American bucks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Did you ever notice how the bitcoin bros are always boasting about the price of it while trashing fiat currencies? And how they always use a fiat value to compare its price with?
It's even worse. The vast majority of Bitcoin trades in exchanges is done from/to USDT, which is basically blindly minting tokens without backing [twitter.com]. USDT is used to buy BTC, which in turn is used to mint more USDT, which in turn is used to buy BTC, which in in turn...
As a result BTC valuation (and market cap) is then enormously distorted. Most trades happen in USDT, but valuations are made in US dollars, under the assumption that 1 USD == 1 USTD, yet USDTs are horribly leveraged. The amount of actual dollars
Re: (Score:1)
It's going to get mega pumped from here, into next year and possibly beyond, but hell, is it ever fragile.
At some point, alarm bells are going to ring about what that could do to global financial markets.
There was a time, when Bitcoin holders would worry about price fluctuations of BTC due to stock market hiccups.
Can you imagine, with institutional investors 'FOMOing' in, what happens if BTC tanks, to the stock market?
It all depends how high this goes and how much money is pumped into it - as a hedge agains
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, sure, it depends on the market cap - BTC is already over USD 1.2 trillion
That is a fantasy number. It would only be real if you could actually sell all or most of it without the value crashing. You cannot.
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Same can be said for any market.
Re: (Score:2)
Same can be said for any market.
Precisely correct. Valuation is a belief and liquidity is a measure of diverse belief that valuation and bitcoin is flowing lots of fiat. Direct crypto transfer of large sums from one fiat to another can be the best option and even more secure than “crowdsourced” exchanges like transferwise meaning it lowers the friction of fiat.
This liquidity is no different than Jeff Bezos trying to extract all 1XX Billion in one transaction just like any market. Don’t think that means the value
Re: (Score:2)
It would only be real if you could actually sell all ...
No.. Market caps are a real number. It's just that if millions of units are sold for $1, and a smaller fraction units are later sold for a million$ a piece; the market cap would imply that the total value is the Million$ times the price of all units in existence. No matter what the asset market caps do not account for the fact that a sale of some portion of units would be bound to drop the price of the rest of them, and it's very unl
Re: (Score:2)
> That is a fantasy number. It would only be real if you could actually sell all or most of it without the value crashing. You cannot.
That's true of gold, any stock, or all the land in New York City as well.
And your statement isn't wrong- the market cap of anything isn't assuming you can sell it all for that price. But when comparing it to other market caps of other things, it's a very good metric.
Re: (Score:2)
Apple has a $2.46T market cap. If everyone tried to liquidate tomorrow, I suspect shareholders would not come close to that amount. So it's a fantasy number as well.
Re: (Score:2)
At some point down the line, this bubble will burst - spectacularly, i might add. The question is how pumped the market can get before this happens.
Indeed. In particular, because the BC blockchain is excessively slow. That massively increases any wave of panic-sells, also because transaction fees go through the roof if more than a few people want to sell. But it seems peak-greed has not been hit yet, so this demonstration, well, public gambling will probably continue for a while.
Re: Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:2)
IIRC Bitcoin can currently handle ~7 transactions per second, which is laughable given its userbase. To put this figure in perspective, Visa clocks at around 1,400 transactions/second, with 0.4% the energy requirements.
Hacks like Lightning, which powers the Chivo wallet in El Salvador, doesn't really solve the issue either. It just builds centralized subnetworks on top of BTC.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
This is like saying armored trucks can only make 7 deliveries between banks in a day so there's no way the dollar can work.
Re: (Score:2)
No, it is not at all like saying that. A better analogy would be a limit of 7 bank transfers per day, all across the US.
Again, the "solution" for this was to build individual, ad-hoc Bitcoin networks on top of the main one, complete with their own money pool for clearing. Congratulations. You've just reinvented the banking system... only worse.
Re: (Score:2)
No, it is not at all like saying that. A better analogy would be a limit of 7 bank transfers per day, all across the US.
Again, the "solution" for this was to build individual, ad-hoc Bitcoin networks on top of the main one, complete with their own money pool for clearing. Congratulations. You've just reinvented the banking system... only worse.
Indeed. I know somebody that tried to sell some Bitcoins a while ago. Was only possible with massive delay and massive loss in value. From a practical point of view, Bitcoin is a complete disaster.
Re: (Score:2)
because transaction fees go through the roof if more than a few people want to sell
Only if those people who want to sell are entering on-chain transactions. If there are only exchange transactions and lightning-network transactions involved, then there's no mining fees.
TBH most people who want to trade on a regular basis will likely have their coins held by some company like Coinbase.. selling those coins off an exchange does not congest the Bitcoin network or cause any transaction fees for BTC users
Re: (Score:2)
because transaction fees go through the roof if more than a few people want to sell
Only if those people who want to sell are entering on-chain transactions. If there are only exchange transactions and lightning-network transactions involved, then there's no mining fees.
TBH most people who want to trade on a regular basis will likely have their coins held by some company like Coinbase.. selling those coins off an exchange does not congest the Bitcoin network or cause any transaction fees for BTC users (at least not immediately)
You think exchanges will want to or even be able to pay out people if there is a crash in the making? What planet do you live on? Exchanges will simply go bankrupt or halt trading within hours as they run out of cash.
Re: (Score:2)
You think exchanges will want to or even be able to pay out people if there is a crash in the making?
Exchanges will not have a problem... Other than increased traffic on their website from all the users wanting to get online and put in orders and the obvious system load challenges that creates: The exchange profits from every transaction, even if BTC goes down to $1 USD in value.
Every unit you sell on the exchange gets matched with a unit someone else has an order to buy, and the price you are awarded a
Re: (Score:1)
Given the increasingly illogical behavior we've seen so far in multiple relevant areas, high bitcoin values might be lingering around for decades (much like covid-19) unless regulatory bodies interfere. I mean, actual casinos are still making bank, so the general public is not exactly becoming smarter about these things. History repeats ad nauseum. You can't predict how long the market will remain irrational.
I wouldn't bet on bitcoin myself o
Re: (Score:2)
So whoever is paying/setting these prices is counting on momentum to drawn in the greater fool. Hopefully the limits on who can leverage to this extent will mean these fools are a small set of very rich individuals rather than institutions representing the hoi polloi.
Wow, so profound.... (Score:2)
The amount of actual dollars in this market is then but a fraction of those figures.
At some point down the line, this bubble will burst - spectacularly, i might add. The question is how pumped the market can get before this happens.
Hey look, everyone, he is predicting that all things end! What a master mentalist!
Re: (Score:2)
Haven't you heard? BTC is going nowhere but up, forever. Just put your savings there, you sound clever.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Wouldn't you usually pay in Euros to buy a fiat
(or a Lancia or Alfa Romeo)
Of course back in the day you'd pay in Lire
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
It isn't that Bitcoin is going up as much as inflation is destroying fiat currencies. Look how much costs of goods and services have spiked, which is just the first step towards a Zimbabwe style hyperinflation period.
Bitcoin is a store of value, of proof of work. The coin has intrinsic value, of energy put into it. A dollar is just a piece of paper.
My question... when will the ka-ching train end? Since BTC is a deflationary resource with no altcoin even approaching it in value, (maybe except for Ethereu
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:4, Interesting)
One thing bitcoin does that the others do not do, is that bitcoin arrived first. That is not a meaningless claim in a world of ideas- it is the one thing that you can't duplicate or fork. Other successful cryptocurrencies usually claim to be "first" at something else that is novel, with lesser degrees of success.
Re: Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not exactly (Score:2)
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:5, Informative)
> Without fiat to give it value, their precious bitcoin is worthless.
Would you prefer to price bitcoin in Bushels of wheat or barrels of oil? That only means something to people who trade those commodities. However, everyone understands dollars.
Neither fiat nor crypto is secured by a commodity so they're both worthless. But your statement is even more worthless.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The government can do anything it wants, up to and including execution, but it cannot take bitcoin without consent of the person with the private keys. But if the government wants your dollars? Well, that is trivial.
Re: (Score:1)
Guns are useless against an enemy you can't see.
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a ridiculous thing to say. The value of fiat currency is also relative; if you print more of it, it loses value. The ultimate value of a currency is always defined relative to something else, whether another currency, or against goods and services.
Re: (Score:2)
Did you ever notice how the bitcoin bros are always boasting about the price of it while trashing fiat currencies?
Nope. Are we trying to make this a thing this week?
Re: (Score:2)
And how they always use a fiat value to compare its price with?
Without fiat to give it value, their precious bitcoin is worthless.
They may be wrong to totally trash fiat, other than to observe that traditional fiat tend to be highly inflationary.. seeing as Bitcoin too is basically a variation of fiat - It's just fiat by an algorithm managed by agreement, instead of fiat by a centralized entity who is given power to decide. In essence it's BTC "Fiat" in the sense that its creation and scarcity is decla
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
True, but so is gold, silver and oil..
Gold, silver, and oil are all useful commodities in and of themselves, regardless of their "fiat" value.
Of what use is a complex computed number if it is not accepted as currency or has no value otherwise?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
For sure. That's why you should buy DogeCoin instead. It's a rocketship on its way to the next galaxy!
Re: (Score:2)
"And how they always use a fiat value to compare its price with?"
You were modded INSIGHTFUL for this?
Other things that are expressed in dollars: land, houses, gold, silver, drugs (licit), drugs (illicit), stocks. Are these things all worthless? By your reasoning they are either worthless or somehow a less legitimate store of value. The entire economy is desperate to not keep much value in dollars (or ANY fiat currencies) because these continue to be printed without limit, and all fiat currencies eventua
Re: (Score:3)
Did you ever notice the only people calling Bitcoin investors "Bitcoin Bros" are the ones who missed the boat?
Re:Without fiat to give it value.... (Score:4, Informative)
"Without fiat to give it value, their precious bitcoin is worthless."
Worthless: having no real value or use.
You can buy a car with Bitcoin. You can buy furniture, food, computers, clothes, and more.
Here's a short list of places that take Bitcoin:
Home Depot
Starbucks
Tesla
Microsoft
Overstock
Whole Foods
NewEgg
Etsy
That less than complete list seems to indicate Bitcoin is the opposite of worthless.
Now, will Bitcoin have worth forever? Probably not. But it likely will for the near future.
Will the US Dollar have worth forever? Probably not. But it likely will for the near future.
Will gold have worth forever? Probably not. But it likely will for the near future.
Re: (Score:2)
All of those just work with a payment system (Flexa, Coinbase) and convert BTC to hard cash on the spot. It has the same "value" a credit card has, only with way higher transaction fees.
Re: (Score:2)
Now, will Bitcoin have worth forever? Probably not. But it likely will for the near future.
And that's the crux of it: Who will be left holding the bag being unable to convert BC into real "backed by a government" currency?
Wanna see a bitcoin boomer thrown into a rage? (Score:1)
The latest rally pushed bitcoin's year-to-date terms to 122%, according to CoinDesk data
According to Coindesk right now:
Bitcoin YTD returns: 129.24%
Ethereum YTD returns: 447.21%
Dogecoin YTD returns: 5,247.39%
Re: Wanna see a bitcoin boomer thrown into a rage? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately, people have fallen for similar schemes repeatedly in the past. The promise 3- or 4-digit yearly yields is just too enticing for most.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
> Over 30 years, with dollar cost averaging, it REALLY adds up
A lot of things add up over 30 years, including back pains and blood pressure. People will always look for ways to get a faster return, or in some cases, not have enough capital that a respectable return rate can do anything for them.
> I think bitcoin is gonna tank. The bitcoin bros think fiat currency is gonna tank. Let's see who's right.
The sad thing is, you're both probably correct at different times. The economic short term future fe
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Whether you believe in its long term success or not, there's no denying that there's money to be made. I do view it as a riskier venture than pure stocks though, and as with all investing you shouldn't put into it any amount of money that you wouldn't be ok if you lost it.
Re: Wanna see a bitcoin boomer thrown into a rage? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a zero-sum game though. The only money to be made is money lost by some other sucker. BTC has no other value proposal.
Hell, in fact, is a negative sum game. Mining/trading BTC has a non-zero cost.
Re: Wanna see a bitcoin boomer thrown into a rage (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really - it depends on what those futures are based on. For example, if we're talking about stocks, you have value generated by companies entering the equation.
Re: (Score:2)
Right, but stocks aren't futures. If you invest in a company by buying a stock, that's different than buying precious metals, cryptocurrencies, or futures.
Re: (Score:1)
Whether you believe in its long term success or not, there's no denying that there's money to be made.
Agreed, there is no denying that there is money to be made by selling BTC previously bought at a lower price. Whether there is money to be made by buying BTC now is a matter of speculation.
Re: (Score:2)
All the Dogecoin fanboys told me that Doge was going to hit a dollar by the end of 2021. It doesn't seem to be on track to do that... what happened?
Re: (Score:2)
I guess it won't, and the Dogecoin fanboys will have to make do with their 5000% profits since the beginning of the year instead of the 9000% that they expected. Those fools!
Re: (Score:2)
My hunch is that there are millions of dummies out there who bought their Dogecoin back while Elon Musk was hyping it up and the price was over 50 cents. Those people won't likely be bragging about their huge gains for a LONG time.
Re: (Score:2)
Crypto "Currency" (Score:2, Funny)
...up 4.2% over the past 24 hours. The latest rally pushed bitcoin's year-to-date terms to 122%...
Because that's exactly the kind of behavior I want from a currency.
Ethereum hit a all time high as well (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
All the alt coins are up. I really like SOL because its transactions are much much faster and cheaper than ETH. It is proof-of-stake and also a unique proof-of-history which allows it to scale without buckling under its own weight like ETH.
Hypocrisy (Score:1)
If bitcoin is so valuable (because presumably the dollar is worthless due to inflation), why do they measure the success of bitcoin in dollars?
Here's the pump.... (Score:2)
...so how soon til the dump? It's inevitable.
Canned Story (Score:1)
Are these canned posts, where they just plug in the values? Next week it will be down, then back up. Yawn.
Re (Score:1)