Podcasts Lose Their Edge (axios.com) 73
Podcasting has emerged out of years of rapid growth and a pandemic boom to face an identity crisis as its ecosystem contracts, advertisement slows and the medium eases into maturity. From a report: Podcasts changed the listening habits of millions of people over the last decade, but the once-groundbreaking format has settled into a more precarious middle age. Fewer people are creating new shows, networks are having difficulties recouping investments, and longtime podcasters are on the hunt for ways to keep their shows sustainable.
The podcast ad market has not grown as quickly as many hoped. Its $1.5 billion size in 2022 was minuscule compared to the nearly $70 billion spent on TV ads last year. Podcast search engine Listen Notes' updated 2022 stats showed an 80% drop in new podcasts created last year. A December report from Insider Intelligence also shows listener growth in 2022 shrank to only 5% after years of double-digit percentage growth. Additionally, data from Edison released in December found declines for the first time in monthly and weekly U.S. listening habits. These shrinking numbers can, in part, be chalked up to a rebound, after the pandemic inspired a boom in new shows and gave many people more time to listen.
The podcast ad market has not grown as quickly as many hoped. Its $1.5 billion size in 2022 was minuscule compared to the nearly $70 billion spent on TV ads last year. Podcast search engine Listen Notes' updated 2022 stats showed an 80% drop in new podcasts created last year. A December report from Insider Intelligence also shows listener growth in 2022 shrank to only 5% after years of double-digit percentage growth. Additionally, data from Edison released in December found declines for the first time in monthly and weekly U.S. listening habits. These shrinking numbers can, in part, be chalked up to a rebound, after the pandemic inspired a boom in new shows and gave many people more time to listen.
Decline of the Commute (Score:5, Informative)
If I'm not driving, then I'd rather read a story than listen to people chatter. Then it gets edited, and there's a better chance that it will be relevant and concise.
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Podcasts have a number of points.
They're a medium for audio fiction (think a revival of the Golden Age of Radio). There's some fabulous story telling. It's not a replacement for books and not the same as an audiobook (they're plays, not someone reading a book to you). The Truth [thetruthpodcast.com], Escape Pod [escapepod.org], and Welcome to Night Vale [welcometonightvale.com] are great examples.
They're an alternative to news and talk radio, e.g. NPR's Up First [npr.org]. You can also listen to long-form interviews, e.g. Joe Rogan or Econtalk [econlib.org].
Finally there are lecture series, t
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I only listen to them on commutes or longer trips in the car. At home I turn on the radio instead. So three podcasts that are also on the radio anyway, just time shifted for my commute. Not much interest in others, even popular ones. Commute time isn't a great time for listening to stuff that requires concentration.
This is OK (Score:2)
Podcasts work far better as a labor of love or as listener supported products. I listen to three podcasts on advertiser-supported services (iHeart) and every week I struggle with having to put up with whatever generic ads they tack on my shows. Far more of my listening goes to listener supported networks like Maximum Fun or shows that are labors of love by one or more creators. I'll happily donate to a Patreon or Ko-fi for content that I like, even when the 30 second skip button is readily available.
Basical
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With every form of advertising comes along a form of ad-filtering. When people got smart with YouTube and started installing adblockers, advertisers had the YouTuber read their advertisment as part of their show instead. In came adblockers that find those parts and skip them.
I'm fairly sure you can find the same for podcasts and the like.
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So far as I'm aware, this is something people have worked on, but there is no tool right now that is as reliably functional as Sponsorblock for Youtube.
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If iHeart's podcasts are anything like their FM programming, I feel bad for you. Thankfully I live in a big enough market that there are two or three alternatives (out of like 40 stations).
By the way, iHeart is Clear Channel. They had to change the name because everyone knew they were responsible for ruining radio. And I guess the new name sounds cool to teenagers.
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They have behind the bastards so that's cool.
Please buy the products and service that support the podcast.
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Robert Evans absolutely the only reason I remotely tolerate iHeart.
Enough with the ads already! (Score:5, Insightful)
Advertising is paying for everything these days. When will the stupid companies wake up and realize their ads don't get us to buy?
Most of the podcasts I listen to have no ads. With the rest, I skip ads.
No one sees ads on Slashdot, right?
My kids say YouTube has ads, but I don't know why they choose to watch them.
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I'm fine with ads, but it has to be targeted ads - ie, stuff I'm interested in. But that's a catch-22 as I don't want companies to know what I'm interested in due to privacy. How they solve that I have no idea.
Would you prefer the network TV model? (Score:2)
I'm fine with ads, but it has to be targeted ads - ie, stuff I'm interested in. But that's a catch-22 as I don't want companies to know what I'm interested in due to privacy. How they solve that I have no idea.
I can see ads for booze I don't drink, tampons I don't use, games for platforms I don't own or see ads for sales at my favorite retailers. It's a compromise, not a catch-22. Google and others gather data on you and face penalties if your data is abused or misused...you get a LOT less ads because targeted ads bring in more revenue and less tedious ads and your favorite creators get paid (although rarely as much as they deserve).
The alternative is network TV's model. Remember watching that? (I stopped
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I can see ads for booze I don't drink, tampons I don't use, games for platforms I don't own or see ads for sales at my favorite retailers.
This shows that your digital sanitation is working. The only problem (and it's not _your_ problem) is that the ad host is probably still counting your ad view as "targeted" and telling the tampon company that they are only showing ad impressions to real buyers. But advertising companies (and Google IS and advertising company) have always been evil bastards and there's not much we the end user can do, except to be aware of their underhanded tactics.
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your choices are either that or paying a monthly fee.
I do pay a monthly fee for some content. But there was content on the WWW before it was laden with advertisements, and I enjoyed it. And if zero of the ad-sponsored content was on the internet, I'd still find content to consume.
We only have copyright because of protectionism. Creators only need copyright because of capitalism. Copyright as we know it today retards innovation by rewarding rent seeking. It is actively harmful to creativity.
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By asking you. Because watching what you buy is pointless.
Say you're shopping around for a new TV. You go to various pages comparing them, you read user reviews, you watch reviewer videos. You eventually decide for Model A.
For the next 2-4 weeks, you're bombarded with ads for TVs. Which is pointless. You just bought one. You will not buy another one, at least not until all those ads are rendered moot by the advance of technology.
Re:Enough with the ads already! (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that ads do work. Even if you think they don't influence you, they are an experience that your brain can't help digesting. That's why blocking them entirely is so important.
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This is another advantage of a VPN. It's easier to ignore an ad if it's for a product or vendor that doesn't exist where you live. Doubly so if the ad is in a language you don't speak.
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The problem is that advertisers see internet advertisement as something different.
For TV, radio, billboards, etc., the whole point is mindshare. Get your products into people's heads.
Internet is interactive, so they demand more. They want clicks. They want purchases. They want targeted ads based on information Microsoft, Google, Apple, Samsung, your ISP, your cellphone provider, and whoever else helped them gather and
So what would you pay for ./ and podcasts? (Score:4, Informative)
Advertising is paying for everything these days. When will the stupid companies wake up and realize their ads don't get us to buy? Most of the podcasts I listen to have no ads. With the rest, I skip ads. No one sees ads on Slashdot, right? My kids say YouTube has ads, but I don't know why they choose to watch them.
Ads are like grey hairs. I don't want them, but accept them. We either have ads or we pay. Content isn't free and creators deserve money. If you're skipping ads on slashdot and youtube and denying them all revenue, you're sociopathic, selfish prick. You're not clever, just shitty. They pay the hosting fees and salary of those creating what you enjoy. They need money somehow.
You've got the attitude of a small child whining he can't have a new puppy/toy/etc...not understanding that just because you want something doesn't mean you get it. If you want content, you need to earn it. Loading and ignoring ads is a tiny cost. I sure as hell not paying a monthly fee. What are you willing to pay monthly for this site and your favorite podcasts?
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We either have ads or we pay.
But this isn't true.
Maybe it's just the niches I'm interested in, but I visit a lot of websites and listen to a lot of podcasts with no advertising whatsoever. And by and large, the quality of these works being created by people simply for love of the topic greatly exceeds the quality of the mercenary works.
When someone makes something good and free, then decides they want to start making money from it, it almost inevitably becomes worse.
Maybe it's just that I'm the kind of person who would much rather play
Then don't complain when people want pay (Score:2)
I like professionally produced content from experienced people who want a paycheck to support their families. I won't pay a monthly fee for most content, but will happily i
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If you run an adblocker, you're an asshole.
If you don't run an adblocker, you're a dumbfuck.
Reason the first you are a dumbfuck: Security. There have been numerous times that browsers have been exploited through ad networks. To me, this should be more than enough reason to run an ad blocker. You can turn it off if you for some reason are stupid enough to trust some site to manage security for you on that level, which would also make you a dumbfuck, but let us continue.
I like professionally produced content from experienced people who want a paycheck to support their families.
Reason the second you are a dumbfuck: Quality of content. Being supported by ads e
So do you sneak into movies too? (Score:2)
Ask the content creators you enjoy if they like it that you're denying them revenue. Ads suck. Ads are shitty. They're the cost of entry, though. You're doing the equivalent of sneaking into a movie theater and bragging about it....as well as saying it's justified because movies toda
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Wow, that's some hostility and vitriol.
Aww, poor snowflake.
It's quite telling that you need to lash out like that.
Hypocrite, too, after your insults to others. Yawn.
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If you want to view free content, go ahead, but don't complain that other creators want money. If you run an adblocker, you're an asshole. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it's ethical. You're consuming content you enjoy and denying them revenue if you do that.
If I record a show to VHS and then fast-forward the ads, am I an "asshole" too? What about if I am watching broadcast TV, then get up for a piss when the ads are on - should I record the ads and watch them later? Am I an asshole if I watch 100 ads and _still_ don't buy the shitty product that was advertised?
In each of your examples, they got paid (Score:2)
If I record a show to VHS and then fast-forward the ads, am I an "asshole" too? What about if I am watching broadcast TV, then get up for a piss when the ads are on - should I record the ads and watch them later? Am I an asshole if I watch 100 ads and _still_ don't buy the shitty product that was advertised?
In each example you cited, they got paid. You want to watch Law & Order and take a piss during the commercial break the advertisers paid NBC to produce that show. The same occurs with VHS. If you block an ad, there is no ad impression and the creator didn't get paid. Online providers are paid when the ad is served, not if you actually watch it or not.
So yeah...with broadcast TV, ignoring or fast-forwarding, you're not actually tangible affecting the broadcaster's income. When you block with an
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Being badly-paid sucks, but not everyone can make a living from being an entertainer. It's a well-worn trope that many actors and comedians have to wait tables for their first few years.
I do believe that if I consume something made by a person, that person should be paid, but I disagree that ads are the way to do it. Remember when the webfirst got started and loads of people were making webpages about their hobby? Video was limited due to bandwidth but there was still loads of creativity via Flash animation
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This works up to the point that something becomes popular and hosting starts costing serious money. Many niche free services, forums, or pieces of indie media have become victims of their own success and forced to either go offline or sell out due to the cost of keeping it available.
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Content isn't free and creators deserve money.
What does that have to do with ads? Typically, only a minuscule percentage of that revenue actually reaches a content creator.
If you're skipping ads on slashdot and youtube and denying them all revenue, you're sociopathic, selfish prick.
The people running Slashdot into the ground with cryptocurrency worship and Elon fellation are the sociopathic ones. Besides, I'm so good at Slashdot that I don't need to see ads, it says so right on the front page. The feature doesn't actually work, but I'm helping.
Gallery of whataboutisms (Score:2)
Content isn't free and creators deserve money.
What does that have to do with ads? Typically, only a minuscule percentage of that revenue actually reaches a content creator.
So it's OK to install plugins to block ads and steal the minuscule revenue they get? Most of my favorite content providers are barely scraping by. So some talented person who provides you with entertainment shouldn't be able to pay his or her bills because you don't want the inconvenience of having to ignore an ad? That's childish and selfish and just sociopathic. It's one thing to be a piece of shit and deny someone revenue...it's quite another thing to champion it online and try to persuade others tha
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My solution is a browser ad-block + network pi-hole and it seems to work pretty well. If ever I see a normal person's browser session, I am amazed at the ads on the side, top, everywhere. If a site I frequent goes out of
Then don't watcht the content (Score:2)
The problem is we're inundated with advertising. I remember back in the day when cable TV didn't have any ads (yes I'm old). Now we have 800+ channels and sometimes I flip around trying to find content but only seeing commercials on every.single.channel. I can't freakin' escape ads! My solution is a browser ad-block + network pi-hole and it seems to work pretty well. If ever I see a normal person's browser session, I am amazed at the ads on the side, top, everywhere. If a site I frequent goes out of business because they don't get ad revenue, so be it, I'll go somewhere else. Let those "influencers" or "youtubers" get a real job instead of trying to cash in on some shitty video as everybody and their momma has a podcast.
Why does it matter what you think of YouTubers or Influencers? If you're not viewing their videos or podcasts, they'd never get your revenue anyway. The problem is that you've done a high tech way of denying your favorite creators revenue...which honestly is your choice...but for fuck's sake, don't brag about it like you're the righteous one. You've stolen from someone. This is no different than sneaking into a movie theater or a concert. Would you brag on /. about that?
Stealing is your choice. I
Re:Enough with the ads already! (Score:4, Informative)
Ads have been commonplace for a century. You think their effectiveness hasn't been studied?
People love to think they're above it. They aren't.
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Their effectiveness has been studied a great deal but every so often stories pop up that online ads don't really do much even when supposedly targeted using Google spyware.
In Bernays Propaganda he wrote that advertisers have a duty to tell the truth or else people will stop listening to ads. Advertisers have been full of shit for over a century so maybe something like that is happening.
Then again there are a lot of people who will believe almost fucking anything, WallStreetBets, HR departments, the police
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Ads have been commonplace for a century. You think their effectiveness hasn't been studied?
People love to think they're above it. They aren't.
Some people can be above it and ads can still generally work. Your conclusion is unsupported. Ads make me buy things less because I remember being annoyed by their lies and interruptions.
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"Ads have been commonplace for a century."
A century? You can find advertising all over the place in the ruins of Pompeii, including endorsements by famous gladiators (yes, really). Og the caveman was probably advertising fire right after he discovered it.
Remember blogs? (Score:2)
It didn't take long for them to go from a handful of nerds talking about nerd things to fully-sponsored blogs hawking the latest products. Then things pivoted to video. Even today, though, if you look at like 90% of all wordpress plugins, they're targeted at marketing bullcrap. There is no higher calling than marketing and avertising, apparently.
Not their target audience (Score:5, Insightful)
That being said, I think the main issue with podcasts is the low barrier to entry means anyone with a microphone (which are everywhere) can start a podcast, which leads to a market saturation. I like listening to educated people on a topic, even if I don't agree with their analyses their opinions come from an informed place, but in a market saturated with new entrants the winners are the ones who are best at marketing and buzz, not necessarily the ones who are the most informed on a given topic. Joe Rogan is a great example of this; the guy doesn't know anything but his marketing made him the top podcaster around. Now as the top podcaster he's able to attract informed people and interview them. Few people can replicate that model.
So this strikes me as a winnowing of the market now; lots of new entrants, then a bunch of folks finding it's not economically sustainable leading to a contraction, and after this period a few will emerge as those who are the best at attracting audiences (marketing) and will either be uninformed talking heads or people like Rogan who then leverage the audience they have to get reasonably informed guests a soapbox for a day or two. (note I qualified it as "reasonably informed"; Rogan has educated people like Peter Zeihan talk about geopolitics and like or hate what he says that guy has real credentials. Then he turns around and has a guy claiming the pyramids around the world were built by aliens, so it's a hit or miss thing with him).
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BBC Radio 4 podcasts (Score:3)
These are the programmes originally produced for talk radio in the UK. They're advert free and routinely amazing. Two favourites:
In our time - a discussion of a piece of history with proper academics
From our own Correspondent - longer form presentations by BBC staff stationed around the world, telling about actual life where they are located.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds [bbc.co.uk]
Apologies if they aren't available outside the UK...
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The BBC shows that come over here (US) I generally find to be pretty good. I got hooked on this show called "The Adventure of English" [wikipedia.org] that combined historical events with how it influenced the English language (like why there are several different spelling rules for similar things). It was so awesome. I'll check those out.
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Apologies if they aren't available outside the UK...
Good news! They are certainly available in the US at www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/podcasts/all-podcasts [bbc.co.uk]
Also good choices. In Our Time [wikipedia.org] is great. There have been 976 episodes in 24 years or so.
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I definitely don't like listening to people talk about random stuff they aren't really experts in.
I was never into podcasts either, but since 2020 with the lockdown, have been going out more on just random nature walks, and found some very on-topic podcasts with subjects being discussed by actual experts, and it makes for engaging content that's definitely got me hooked for a few podcasts left and right. The advertising however is horrible in some;
Podcasts? What are those? (Score:2)
About the only time I listen to podcasts is when CBC's Podcast Playlist [www.cbc.ca] show comes on. Those are carefully curated podcasts and are often pretty good. But like another commenter earlier, I don't listen to radio or audio unless I'm driving, and it's not practical to try to stream podcasts in my car.
I guess I could download them ahead of time and then play then, but meh. That sounds like work.
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Agreed. During May through September I'm traveling on the road a lot. Whenever I can catch podcasts on CBC I'm a happy guy. But they are very well put together. They aren't just "chatting", as you say.
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I'll often pre-load some episodes I've missed of "Quirks and Quarks", or "Under the Influence".
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Quirks and Quarks, Under the Influence, The Debaters, etc. are not podcasts. They are professionally-produced radio shows and the difference in quality really shows.
CBC TV is mostly garbage, but CBC Radio One has a lot of excellent shows.
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CBC calls it a podcast. So does Apple Podcasts. You may be unnecessarily restricting the definition of podcast.
https://www.radio-canada-onlin... [radio-canada-online.com]
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Well, OK. Maybe they are marketed as podcasts, but they are also broadcast on regular old FM radio. You need a ton of infrastructure to do commercial radio broadcasts; this is not something a random person can do from their home office.
I'm not saying that having the CBC infrastructure behind you necessarily results in higher-quality programming... but it does increase the chances.
Re:Podcasts? What are those? (Score:4, Informative)
it's not practical to try to stream podcasts in my car.
I've done that. It seems to work fine, but you don't have to.
I guess I could download them ahead of time and then play then, but meh. That sounds like work.
Any podcast app is going to be able to download whatever you've subscribed to. I usually just let it build things up for a few days and then I've plenty to listen to when I'm interested. This doesn't require any work on your part, other than subscribing to whatever you're interested in.
TV always commands a premuim (Score:2)
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Podcasts were basically shock jock radio for people too young to listen to the actual radio. People like Rogan gained a lot of listeners that way, but over time they got wise to his shtick and drifted away. It didn't help that he became a Spotify exclusive.
Unlike the radio guys, the podcasters have to deal with social media and people seeing the critiques of their work. Their audience is exposed to many more opposing views and people deconstructing their rhetoric.
There was also a bit of a gold rush effect w
Unbearable egocentricism (Score:2)
bad business models (Score:3)
All of these podcasts and alternative media are built on an unsustainable business model. If you rely on advertisers, then then he who pays the piper calls the tune. If you rely on paid subscriptions, then only a very few can survive. In the end, everything reverts back to corporate TV and corporate media, if not in structure, then in content.
JRE (Score:2)
Never a dull moment with JRE, sometimes the content can be way out of the norm but it's still entertaining.
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Java Runtime Environment?
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Joe Rogan Experience
Won't last forever (Score:3)
It seems like it would be advantageous for the industry to model a little more around how TV works. Meaning creating seasons of programs that have a planned end. Also learning how to promote new offerings over old offerings to make more room for new programs.
A what? (Score:2)
RSS (Score:2)
Over saturated market (Score:3)
At this point it seems that everyone and their dog have a podcast.
It's not surprising that they have a hard time surviving. There are so many productions out there that interesting content is bound to dry out.
Also, many youtube channels are essentially run as podcasts with video. (Just like some NPR shows.)
I am interested in woodworking and I do listen to a youtube channel that is formed as a podcast. I just googled "woodworking podcast" and the one I listen to isn't even on the top 10. The market is crazily saturated.
Isn't this perfectly normal? (Score:3)
Happened when the Internet first started. Everybody and their dog built a personal web page, until it was clear nobody else gave a shit about them. Then people blogged ad nauseum until they realized nobody was listening. Ditto for recipe sites. Videos followed. The usual path seems to be an explosion containing all sorts of levels of quality, a heartless culling, and then a return to a slow growth pattern. There will always be some low amount of shitty podcasts, but the signal to noise ratio will improve. Having decent production values and some structure to the content should matter.
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That's why I stopped writing blogs about me and started writing howtos. People actually read those. They are arguably the best SEO there is for nerd shit. Plus I can refer back to them when I forget how to do something.
Podcasts Lose Their Edge (Score:2)
Move to Safari reported.
Podcasting is going the way of Netflix (Score:2)
Another issue with podcasts is that the "market" if you want to call it that, is becoming fractured. It's like how you really just needed Netflix for video streaming. Then came Hulu and Prime and CBS/Paramount and HBO Max/Plus/Whatever and Peacock and AppleTV+ and everything else. All the content that used to be in one, nice, easy to use and find place became scattered to the four winds and hidden behind several different paywalls. I've been on the edge of cancelling my Netflix sub since even before the
Went downhill once Car Talk ended (Score:2)
"The podcast ad market..." (Score:2)
I can barely stand my friends (Score:2)
...why would I want to listen to two or more *strangers* deliver their vapid, empty headed (or deeply political) visit for half an hour or more?