With Mission To China, WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (nytimes.com) 131
A team of World Health Organization scientists said on Tuesday in China that the coronavirus probably first spread to humans through an intermediate animal host and was "extremely unlikely" the result of a lab accident. The New York Times: The findings, delivered after 12 days of field work by the team visiting Wuhan, China, were the first step in what will most likely be a painstaking process to trace the origins of the global pandemic, a question that is critical to helping prevent a recurrence. "All the work that has been done on the virus and trying to identify its origin continue to point toward a natural reservoir," said Dr. Peter K. Ben Embarek, a food safety scientist with the W.H.O., who is leading the team of experts, speaking at a news conference in Wuhan, the city where the coronavirus was first discovered late in 2019. Dr. Embarek dismissed the idea that the virus might have emerged from a laboratory in Wuhan, a theory that has gained currency among some officials and experts in the United States and elsewhere. "It was very unlikely that anything could escape from such a place," he said, citing safety protocols.
The W.H.O. experts largely focused their comments on the scientific aspects of their mission. But the inquiry has been in many ways overshadowed by politics. The Chinese government has continued to suggest that the virus may have originated overseas, an idea that many scientists discount. Chinese officials on Tuesday used the news conference to continue to promote this theory, arguing that the search for the origin of the virus should focus on places outside China. The investigation will "not be restricted to any location," said Liang Wannian, who led the team of Chinese scientists assisting in the W.H.O. mission. The W.H.O. experts at the three-hour news conference did not challenge the statements by the Chinese officials. They pledged to examine reports of early cases of the virus outside China. They also called for more research into the animals that were sold at a sprawling market in Wuhan where some of the first cases of the virus were detected. For the W.H.O., the visit served as a chance to dispel criticism that it is too deferential to China.
The W.H.O. experts largely focused their comments on the scientific aspects of their mission. But the inquiry has been in many ways overshadowed by politics. The Chinese government has continued to suggest that the virus may have originated overseas, an idea that many scientists discount. Chinese officials on Tuesday used the news conference to continue to promote this theory, arguing that the search for the origin of the virus should focus on places outside China. The investigation will "not be restricted to any location," said Liang Wannian, who led the team of Chinese scientists assisting in the W.H.O. mission. The W.H.O. experts at the three-hour news conference did not challenge the statements by the Chinese officials. They pledged to examine reports of early cases of the virus outside China. They also called for more research into the animals that were sold at a sprawling market in Wuhan where some of the first cases of the virus were detected. For the W.H.O., the visit served as a chance to dispel criticism that it is too deferential to China.
They should hand out these masks ... (Score:4, Funny)
https://notthebee.com/article/... [notthebee.com]
Just to troll people.
Old WHO vs New WHO (Score:3, Insightful)
After the months of kowtowing to China's feelings on the subject versus core scientific integrity.
After delaying the ground trip to China for a year because China refused them access.
After flip flopping on the early preventative measures of masks vs no masks, and what kind of masks, in contrast to the as-known conditions.
They have no scientific integrity. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does more for the world's health on a daily basis then WHO does now.
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I think the problem with the WHO isn't that they are "owned" by China (since other groups give them more money). The problem is that they have more administrators than scientists.
Re:Old WHO vs New WHO (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is people expecting the WHO to be the World Health Police.
They are not, they are a non-political organization whose job is to help disseminate data given to them by countries, and to provide administrative assistance for health projects.
Their job here is not to go and figure out of China lied or gather evidence for potential lawsuits and WTO complaints. Their job is to gather what available information is available, suggest where further work needs to be done and then produce reports for doctors, scientists and political leaders.
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The WHO is good at administering. They've done a reasonable job of running the polio vaccination program, for example (although the CIA messed that up, just like everything they touch).
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If they were non-political they would be studying Taiwan's response to the virus that resulted in some of the best outcomes in the world. Instead, we get this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Old WHO vs New WHO (Score:5, Informative)
That's a great example of them being non-political and in a no-win situation.
Your video shows a WHO rep avoiding answering a question about Taiwan directly. Taiwan is of course disputed by the Chinese government, which claims it is part of China. So naturally the WHO is hamstrung here, they can't take a political position on Taiwan. Obviously the journalist knows this and should not expect anything different.
There is no good option for the WHO here. They either piss off China at a time when they need to work with them more than ever, or they get criticism from you. And really what would "studying" Taiwan's response do to help? Everyone already knows what it was and how well it worked, not replicating it is a purely political decision for each country to make.
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You can always count on the leftist lunatic to be a leftist lunatic. Thanks, ami, we wouldn't have it any other way.
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...and you can always count on Trailer Trash to act like trailer trash.
Resorting to petty name calling because you are incapable of a well reasoned response is what trash does.
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LOL! "Leftist lunatic" isn't "petty name calling". I'm a white guy. I'm 6 feet 0 inches tall. I wear glasses.
These are all factual descriptions.
It's okay, I mean, I find it funny because I could pretty much predict the lefty's response but ami never fails to deliver.
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LOL! "Leftist lunatic" isn't "petty name calling". I'm a white guy. I'm 6 feet 0 inches tall. I wear glasses.
These are all factual descriptions.
It's okay, I mean, I find it funny because I could pretty much predict the lefty's response but ami never fails to deliver.
"LOL!" Laugh out loud? I'm guessing you're one of those people that laughs out loud at the Peanuts newspaper comic too.
What exactly was "Leftist" about his post? I ask because as far as I can see there is nothing Left or Right about it.
Furthermore, even if it was a Leftist post (which it wasn't) you were still engaging in petty name calling as you certainly weren't attempting to engage in an exchange of ideas with your post and instead chose to throw a label at it and the author in an attempt to discredit.
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And really what would "studying" Taiwan's response do to help? Everyone already knows what it was and how well it worked, not replicating it is a purely political decision for each country to make.
So what you're saying here is that there's not really a need for a "non-political organization" that does nothing other than [poorly] "help disseminate data given to them", because the modern world disseminates information just fine?
Not sure why you defend such an organization so much, then.
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They are not, they are a non-political organization whose job is to help disseminate data given to them by countries, and to provide administrative assistance for health projects.
Dude, they are TOTALLY a political organization. If they were truly a "non-political organization" as you declare, Taiwan would at least have observer status at WHO. The fact that WHO is in China at all right now is almost miraculous, but don't be surprised if they find out (wink wink) that poor China was the true victim here and not in any way, shape, or form responsible for COVID-19.
Re:Old WHO vs New WHO (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is people expecting the WHO to be the World Health Police.
No the problem is that people were expecting the WHO to be honest and they weren't. The WHO claimed that China was cooperating, which we now know was simply not true. We know from leaked internal documents that China was not giving the WHO up to date information, we know that the China refused access to WHO investigation teams, we know that initially China tried to censor it's own doctors. The Chinese government was protecting their public image by withholding information. The WHO should have reported this fact, but instead they chose to go along with China's PR campaign. That is playing politics.
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Again, you expect them to be political. If they said "China isn't giving us full access" then China would probably have cut them off entirely, and accused them of being controlled by the US.
When journalists ask questions like "is China cooperating" it's just a trap, and there is no good answer. If the give you an answer other than "yes" the whole thing falls apart and people die because they didn't get data from China. China has provided useful data, lots of it, despite all the talk.
Let the WHO do its job.
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Again, you expect them to be political. If they said "China isn't giving us full access" then China would probably have cut them off entirely, and accused them of being controlled by the US.
Reporting the facts is not politics. Gathering the facts and sharing it with global medical community WHO's job, that's why it was created. But the WHO didn't say "no comment", they didn't sugar coat it, they didn't equivocate, or dodge the question. They flat out lied.
Deceiving one group of nations to the benefit of another nation is overtly political. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise.
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These are not facts, these are opinions. The Chinese would say they are providing assistance, translation services, accommodation and the like. You would say they are interfering and limiting the investigation. Which you consider to be true depends on your political position.
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Actually this makes things worse (Score:5, Insightful)
The WHO group would have been very closely monitored. Followed everywhere. Chinese people aren't stupid. If someone actually knew something, he/she would never discuss it with the WHO. The government would find out, then their kids all of a sudden wouldn't be attending that top public school or worse. The Chinese would have accompanied them everywhere and carefully controlled where they go and who they could speak to.
If the WHO wants to "Rehabilitate Its Image", they should have reported: We made best efforts to research the source of the virus. We were not allowed freely gather information, so we are unable to come to any new conclusions.
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> The Chinese would have accompanied them everywhere and carefully controlled where they go and who they could speak to.
It was a 4-week guided tour for the members of the WHO team.
Re: Actually this makes things worse (Score:3)
.... or, the Chinese are being open and honest and the statements are likewise.
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Funny! (Score:1)
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Interesting... https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]
Interesting yes, but they found it in only one of the monthly samples. Why would it be present in March 2019 but not any month after that until January 2020? Testing error?
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Re: COrona-Virus FOund in Spain March 2019 (Score:2)
... or they were a Spaniard who went to China on a tour.
yeah, but could be lab error (Score:2)
Meh. I'd say you'd need more than one sample to rule out later contamination as the source.
Here's an amusing case: http://content.time.com/time/w... [time.com]
Link to WHO media briefing (Score:5, Informative)
Can we please make it a habit to include a link to the actual source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Based on safety protocols (Score:5, Informative)
Oh OK. It is extremely unlikely because of safety protocols...
This is the same lab that has news articles from 2018 through 2020 reporting that they had numerous safety and management concerns right? I'm sure those problems were cleared up in late 2020 just in time for this virus to spontaneously appear in a fish market a few miles away...
Re:Based on safety protocols (Score:5, Insightful)
The lab leak hypothesis is a debunked conspiracy theory.
Bullshit. You're conflating two completely different ideas. The "conspiracy theory" is that China created the virus in the lab to wreak havoc in the world. A very reasonable (and, frankly, Occam's Razor) hypothesis is that the virus - being something studied at the lab - accidentally escaped from the lab. There's nothing crazy about that and it needs to be investigated properly.
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That argument defeats itself. The reason for safet (Score:4, Interesting)
The argument goes like this:
The lab had extensive safety protocols to try to avoid a virus getting out. Therefore, a virus didn't get out.
WHY did the lab have "extensive safety protocols"?
The lab had the safety protocols that it did BECAUSE an error could release a pandemic.
The reason there were safety concerns in the years leading up to to when the pandemic began is precisely because a mistake could cause just such a pandemic.
Really the argument one would have to make would be:
We know that the safety protocols were perfect, all of the equipment was perfect, and every employee did exactly the right thing every time.
Given the number of stupid places I've seen passwords written down, I know that employees don't follow the standards perfectly every time. I'm not sure if they follow them MOST of the time.
So what we can logically says is this:
We can't prove that it escaped from the lab, and we can't prove that it didn't. The lab had some safety protocols such that human failure to follow them could lead to this type of thing.
China Sucks (Score:2, Flamebait)
There's a good chance that the Wuhan Cornavirus originated in a lab [battleswarmblog.com]. But how on earth would you think any international agency would dare mention that when they can't even bring themselves to condemn documented genocide [battleswarmblog.com]?
Given Hunter Biden's documented financial ties to China [battleswarmblog.com], I wouldn't expect the Biden Administration to do any more either.
And did you hear that Biden's pick to be CIA head ran a think tank that was filthy with Chinese cash [battleswarmblog.com]?
Battleswarm blog? (Score:2)
Yeah, that has all the hallmarks of a place to go for expert unbiased opinion. While it may well have escaped from a lab while being studied in one, if China were going to create a biological weapon they'd have done a damn site better job than one than tends to kill off old people who are already ill. If you wanted to create a lethal bioweapon you wouldn't start with a relative of the common cold, you'd heard straight to Ebola, smallpos or anthrax.
Who says they were finished with it? (Score:2)
We know they were conducting gain in function experiments [battleswarmblog.com] on coronaviruses.
And as for Ebola, we know China illegally acquired samples of that [battleswarmblog.com] from a Candian lab as well. So it makes sense to assume that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was probably working on that as well.
All evidence points toward and accidental lab release. There's no reason to believe it was a finished bioweapon rather than an in-progress work.
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We know they were conducting gain in function experiments [battleswarmblog.com] on coronaviruses.
And as for Ebola, we know China illegally acquired samples of that [battleswarmblog.com] from a Candian lab as well. So it makes sense to assume that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was probably working on that as well.
All evidence points toward and accidental lab release. There's no reason to believe it was a finished bioweapon rather than an in-progress work.
Your first link concerns Hunter Biden with no relation to your claim. The second link claims "Well Canada kicked a member of that lab out of the country last year supposedly for transporting deadly strains out of Canada’s only class 4 pathogen lab:", the source it provides does not make that claim and it is further debunked https://www.factcheck.org/2020... [factcheck.org] (other sources claimed they smuggled the coronavirus, while you and your source claim it was Ebola).
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You got any non tinfoil hat sources?
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We're not saying they created it as a weapon.
We're saying it was being examined in the lab, someone messed up , and it got out.
Consider Wuhan has China's first biosafety level 4 (BSL–4) laboratory, the coincidence is a bit much.
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Look, everyone--it's Lawrence "If I quote my own blog saying so enough times, that makes it true, right?" Person!
Kinda reminds me of Andy "If I link to my own posts enough times, that makes me right, doesn't it?" Kowalski...
The virus doesn't need to escape (Score:2)
All that needed to happen was someone working on the virus in the lab (which they were almost certainly studying as they have every SARs variant) gets unwittingly infected and then the pandemic starts. The virus doesn't escape the lab on its own, it uses a human host to get out. Perhaps the host had symptoms (and if so china certainly wouldn't tell us about it) , perhaps not, but ultimately it makes no difference.
Hmm, not "extremely unlikely" (Score:5, Informative)
Fact: We know that the Wuhan Institute of Virology conducted “gain of function” experiments on bat coronoavirii.
The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses. But the WIV has not been transparent or consistent about its record of studying viruses most similar to the COVID-19 virus, including “RaTG13,” which it sampled from a cave in Yunnan Province in 2013 after several miners died of SARS-like illness.
https://ge.usembassy.gov/fact-... [usembassy.gov]
Fact: Labs using gain-of-function experimental techniques on live virii have experienced accidents and escapes
The public health danger from the escape, from laboratories, of viruses capable of causing pandemics has become the subject of considerable, well-merited discussion, spurred by “gain of function” experiments. The ostensible goal of these experiments— in which researchers manipulate already-dangerous pathogens to create or increase communicability among humans—is to develop tools to monitor the natural emergence of pandemic strains.
https://thebulletin.org/2014/0... [thebulletin.org]
A review of 11 relevant events (2) found that escapes of high-consequence pathogens causing community infections typically occur from state-of-the-art laboratories, including six outbreaks of severe acute respiratory syndrome and one of foot-and-mouth disease since 2003.
Since 2014, four extramural escapes of high-consequence pathogens have originated from prestigious U.S. laboratories. Virulent anthrax and avian influenza virus sent from the CDC (3) and anthrax sent from Dugway Proving Ground (4) by public carriers entered nonsecure areas of other laboratories. Activities at the select agent laboratory at the Tulane National Primate Research Center remain suspended after Burkholderia pseudomallei, the agent of melioidosis, escaped containment and caused multiple primate infections in an outdoor primate facility
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
The 1977-1978 influenza epidemic was probably not a natural event, as the genetic sequence of the virus was nearly identical to the sequences of decades-old strains. While there are several hypotheses that could explain its origin, the possibility that the 1977 epidemic resulted from a laboratory accident has recently gained popularity in discussions about the biosafety risks of gain-of-function (GOF) influenza virus research, as an argument for why this research should not be performed.
https://mbio.asm.org/content/6... [asm.org]
Fact: escapes of deadly pathogens have occurred even in the highest safety rated labs in the U.S.
On Friday Director Tom Frieden revealed that someone in the CDC's influenza division had accidentally contaminated a vial of a relatively mild bird flu virus with the worst one known, H5N1. The Atlanta-based CDC then shipped the vial to unsuspecting researchers at the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory up the road in Athens, Ga., who used its contents to infect some unlucky chickens.
There is no suggestion the unfortunate event was anything other than human error, and no one—except the chickens—was made ill as a result of the mistake. But the fact that it happened, and could happen again, has given valuable ammunition to a group of scientists who have been arguing for the past couple of years that gain-of-function work on influenza viruses is too dangerous to undertake.
https://www.scientificamerican... [scientificamerican.com]
So a lab-leak of SARS-Cov-2 from the WIV isn't "extremely unlikely".
Re: Hmm, not "extremely unlikely" (Score:3)
Except all the people with the most evidence and expertise on the matter disagree. Suck it up.
Re: Hmm, not "extremely unlikely" (Score:2)
No, they do not.
What they disagree with is the idea that it was created as a bioweapon. Not the idea that its release could have been a lab accident.
Chinese bioresearch facilities are literally prone to errors which could cause a release. This is known fact.
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So when experts warn something is potentially dangerous, they are (rightly) plausible. When they say that, on balance, something didn't occur, they are not plausible. Got it.
They also know how to spell. The plural is "viruses". <G>
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Fact: We know that the Wuhan Institute of Virology conducted “gain of function” experiments on bat coronoavirii.
This gain of function research was done in the BSL 3 lab of University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill [nature.com]. The WIV scientist Shi Zhengli was one of the co-author of the paper [nature.com] who provided the original sample virus which is not SARS-COVID-2.
Oh yeah a laboratory should be investigated! But it is the BSL 3 lab of the University of North Carolina. Especially given
Since 2014, four extramural escapes of high-consequence pathogens have originated from prestigious U.S. laboratories.
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10k wet markets in Asia (Score:4, Interesting)
And the wet market 2 miles from the Wuhan lab is where it shows up. Aren't coincidences insane?
Back in the real world, this would be like having a major disease originate within 10 miles of Ft Detrick and then claiming incredulously that it couldn't possibly have come from the lab because Uncle Sam pinky swears to his innocence.
Re: 10k wet markets in Asia (Score:2)
Yeah, that didn't actually happen at all.. Oh wait... It did.
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While it has been effectively proven scientifically that the virus was not engineered and must have evolved in nature, this has nothing to do with the possibility that this virus may have been under study in the Wuhan laboratory and accidentally breached containment.
Especially when the Washington Post reported alarms were raised by the State Department about safety and containment concerns well before the pandemic:
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
China has been very proactively preventing any research into
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While it has been effectively proven scientifically that the virus was not engineered and must have evolved in nature,
This isn't really true. Arguments are that if it had been designed (using CRISPR), then Covid would have a more effective spike protein. Also China didn't intentionally release it because the release pattern is wrong for that kind of thing. Also it could have evolved in nature, that is something that happens.
Still, if you want to increase the effectiveness of a coronavirus, even if you don't use CRISPR, a reasonable approach would be to grow the virus in a dish with human cells until it evolves the ability
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This is literally a conspiracy theory. The kind that Facebook deletes, but Slashdot allows for some reason I don't understand.
Could you clarify what the conspiracy is in the parents post?
Is "10K wet markets in Asia" the lie? Is the statement regarding markets being incredibly close to a lab where viruses are being studied completely bogus? No one studies coronaviruses in labs? No such lab exists? What?
Not trying to propagate, confirm or deny anything, I'm just wondering what you feel is fact vs. fiction here, because I'm sure as shit not inclined to believe whatever the hell Facebook wants to purport as our new Ministry of Tru
Re: 10k wet markets in Asia (Score:2)
It literally is not a conspiracy theory.
We know that China has had releases from bio labs before.
It is only a conspiracy theory if you think they did it on purpose.
It is not a conspiracy theory that China deliberately hid information on Covid from everyone else. That is a conspiracy FACT.
Let me explain it to you in small words (Score:2)
Scientists study viruses.
Scientists work in labs.
Studying in a lab is not the same thing as "making in a lab."
Scientists are human.
Scientists make mistakes.
Scientists need to eat.
Chinese scientists are often underpaid.
Poor, overworked scientists in China might buy from the wet market.
Poor, overworked Chinese scientists might also be infected with the viruses they're studying.
Capisce?
It was from a lab (Score:2)
There was considerable debate in the scientific community as to if research that breeds more virulent viruses fo
Re:It was from a lab (Score:4, Insightful)
How likely is it that a wild type virus doesn't spread effectively outside but spreads very effectively inside?
That sounds like every respiratory virus.
after a 3 hour meeting (Score:2)
Re: Chinese PR stories flowing freely again (Score:1)
... And the ranting of bigots too. It's tiresome.
Reading Thread Looking for Conspiracy Theorists (Score:1)
Was not disappointed. Wow, they are out in force!
Force fields (Score:3)
2. Erect a Level 10 force field dome over China. That'll solve a whole laundry-list of problems in the world.
I have no proof that the Chinese government did anything on purpose. I am no conspiracy theorist. But done properly it would have been to their National advantage, regardless of the screetchings of the paid and unpaid China shills of the Internet, and I'd like to point out that the damage and disruption it's caused them has been small compared to every other major country of the world. Just sayin'.
The Chinese government cannot be trusted to act in good faith. Just sayin'.
The WHO gets all expenses paid tour of Wuhan . . . (Score:2)
. . . and, their "finding" is bullshit.
What a surprise !
Come clean, you fucking ,simpering pussies !
You have zero idea what happened over a year ago in a bio-lab which *may* be the location where COVID-19 *may* have first transfered to a human.
WHO == *W*e *H*ate h*O*nesty
What would you EXPECT them to say? (Score:1)
Well, the WHO have apparently said... (Score:1)
China is essentially not at fault.
Clearly thereâ(TM)s a lot wrong with that
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Yeah, Covid must have been imported from frozen meat like China says /s
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Correct.
And, thankfully, soon all social media I the US, in order to promote unity, will remove any "fake news" or misinformation that any try to promote stating otherwise.
See? Isn't this simple and fun?
The only twist really, is that we didn't see the Ministry of Truth being outsourced.
Re: WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (Score:2)
Yeah, because they don't know (either). Iinm the Chinese government also don't claim it did, just that it is a possibility.
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That is just as bad.
Censorship by omission is just as bad as censorship by blatantly removing content.
Hell, we're seeing the that more and more with mainstream media in the US.
Seems that that WHO is going that route too with China....
Re:WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (Score:5, Insightful)
The WHO did not claim that the virus originated outside of China. That's not what TFA, the summary or any reputable news source said, and not backed up by any official statement from the WHO.
The WHO can't win. If they don't endorse your established beliefs you will accuse them of being under the control of China, and if they don't follow the science and make very conservative statements they will be defunded like Trump tried to.
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The best they can do now that there's a sane person in the Oval Office is do what they do, gather the information they can gather, as much as China may be obstructionist or at least throw out ridiculous theories. The Trump crowd and their fellow travelers are going to blame the World Health Organization no matter what happens, and frankly, at this point, those people are utterly irrelevant.
Re: WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (Score:1)
Why are their theories rediculous?
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I voted for President Biden, and think President Trump should be sent to gitmo, and I don't like the WHO either.
They're a mouthpiece for Chinese propaganda on this issue.
However, they're also the venue for countries to work together on a wide variety of health challenges in the world, so I support rejoining, paying our dues, and pushing back on the BS; after the crisis is past, because dealing with the immediate problems is more important than how we got here for now. Once we're past the immediate danger, t
Re: WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (Score:3)
There is no time to wait. The trail grows ever colder. We can do both things at once. We should.
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There is no trail to chase that involves going to China, it is not a free country, nobody there is going to tell you anything, and if you think somebody is telling you somehting, they're CCP intelligence agent who is gonna pull the rug out from under you later to discredit you.
If it came from that lab, the trail to chase is DNA evidence collected from the outside.
The satellite photos of hospital parking lots, that many or local morons were panning me for mentioning in the spring, are consistent with the tim
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On the other hand, if they didn't, there's been enough time and enough chaos that I don't see how anyone could track down who Patient Zero is/was, or for that matter who Patient Negative One was (the alleged animal it came from).
On the gripping hand, regardless of the
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Trust is a fragile thing. Most of us give at least a token amount to people, gratis; whether the value of that trust rises or falls depends entirely on their actions.
In the view of some the W.H.O. have brought their trustworthiness into question. All it takes is one or two questionable statements, actions, or circumstances for that to happen, and when it does, only a consistent pattern of trustworthy behavior is, for most people, what is required to restore tr
Re:WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (Score:4, Insightful)
Who are these scientists that prove the virus cannot be originated outside of China?
You can't prove a negative and only idiots and propagandist trolls demand people do so. You can only prove a positive.
- the USAMRIID report is still redacted [military.com]
Of course its redacted. That's a military lab working on bioweapons. COVID has already been shown to not be engineered so even if you made the absurd claim the the US military engineered it as a weapon, which you are implying heavily mind, if has no factual basis.
- the military lab released Anthrax [wikipedia.org] in a pretext to the Iraq War
Red herring. Has nothing to do with covid. It was also not a case of "the lab" releasing anthrax but a scientist at the lab who turned terrorist releasing it.
- there was a surge of flu cases in the 2019 season in the US [passporthealthusa.com]
2019 was a bad year for flu everywhere.
- there were blood samples from December 2019 [livescience.com] tested positive in the US
Its commonly held belief that covid was spreading around the globe for some time before it was recognized.
- and most importantly, the US demanded investigation of Weapon of Mass Destruction in Iraq just based on flimsy little evidences
Has nothing to do with nothing.
You are a prodaganda troll for the murderous CCP. Say high to Pooh Bear for me.
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Of course its redacted. That's a military lab working on bioweapons.
So this US lab is still working on bioweapons against the law?
COVID has already been shown to not be engineered so even if you made the absurd claim the the US military engineered it as a weapon, which you are implying heavily mind, if has no factual basis.
Where is my claim that this virus was engineered by the US military lab? Only idiot and propagandist would distort someone else's statement to prove him wrong.
- and most importantly, the US demanded investigation of Weapon of Mass Destruction in Iraq just based on flimsy little evidences
Has nothing to do with nothing.
Definitely according to the Golden Rule [wikipedia.org]. If you demand to investigate/bhumiliate someone based on flimsy and falsified claims, then you should be subjected to the same investigation/humiliation based on any evidences, no matter how flimsy those could be. After, what do you have to hide if you're clean.
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[Fixing the block quote error of above]
Of course its redacted. That's a military lab working on bioweapons.
So this US lab is still working on bioweapons against the law?
COVID has already been shown to not be engineered so even if you made the absurd claim the the US military engineered it as a weapon, which you are implying heavily mind, if has no factual basis.
Where is my claim that this virus was engineered by the US military lab? Only idiot and propagandist would distort someone else's statement to prove him wrong.
- and most importantly, the US demanded investigation of Weapon of Mass Destruction in Iraq just based on flimsy little evidences
Has nothing to do with nothing.
Definitely according to the Golden Rule [wikipedia.org]. If you demand to investigate/bhumiliate someone based on flimsy and falsified claims, then you should be subjected to the same investigation/humiliation based on any evidences, no matter how flim
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Of course its redacted. That's a military lab working on bioweapons. COVID has already been shown to not be engineered so even if you made the absurd claim the the US military engineered it as a weapon, which you are implying heavily mind, if has no factual basis.
I've said this before, been shouted down, and will say it again, with this proviso: I am not making baseless claims about ANYTHING; understand?
*IF* there was a perfectly virulent coronavirus already extant in nature, perfectly 'compatible' with humans, and all it would need would to be allowed to infect at least one human, then it would be TRIVIAL for a nasty, evil government to start a pandemic, with RELATIVELY LITTLE risk to themselves, because THEY would be prepared for it ahead of time and ready to ta
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- the USAMRIID report is still redacted [military.com]
Of course its redacted. That's a military lab working on bioweapons.
Please find a link (pdf warning) to President Nixon’s Decision to Renounce the U.S. Offensive Biological Weapons Program [dtic.mil].
I didn't think that the US was in the business of making bioweapons? Did I miss the memo?
If work is being conducted it would be research and if there was an accident there would be an audit trail of exactly what happened in the course of conducting that research and what it was about.
Are you saying that it's redacted because something illegal was happening there? I don't
Re: WHO Tries To Rehabilitate Its Image (Score:1)
Re: muddy conspiracy thinking (Score:2)
They're both about engineering a virus, but could it have not simply escaped? Ie all the same arguments leveled at the Wuhan lab...
Re:The mission has failed (Score:4, Insightful)
How is WHO parroting those views? All it is said is that it is improbable COVID-19 escaped from a lab. For fuck's sakes, viruses having been making leaps from species to species for billions of years. Jesus, do any of you fuckwads know anything about biology?
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That isn't all the WHO team has done. They've also just lent their support to the theory China's been pushing that Covid-19 didn't originate in China at all and was brought into the country on frozen food. This is even more implausible than the lab escape theory for a variety of reasons (formites don't seem to be a major source of Covid-19 transmission, the detections on frozen food all appear to have been caused by outbreaks at the facilities where it was detected rather than vice-versa, and there'd be a l
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Genes don't lie. The molecular data alone should give us a pretty strong indication of the original source of the virus. But let's keep in mind that viruses need no help hopping the species boundary, they have been doing it for billions of years. RNA viruses, in particular, have very unstable genomes due to the incredibly high chances of transcription errors. It's how parts of germ lines end up in RNA virus genomes (these are useful molecular clocks when studying various related families of organisms, you c
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Biden is rejoining WHO after Hunter picked up millions of cash from China. The US corporate media has already been propagating the lie that it didn't originate in the Wuhan lab where mysteriously they were researching these exact coronavirus from bats.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Hunter's laptop contains plenty of evidence that he was getting payments from China along with 10% set aside for the "the big guy".
This is just fact.
Re: The mission has failed (Score:2)
Really? Show us the proof of your supposed fact, noob.
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Well at least O'Reilly isn't hiding the fact that he's a white supremacist
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While I am far from a Chinese or Communist apologist, I dare say you're confounding "Chinese tendency to hide the truth" with general human behavior. One need not look far to find our own former orange Emperor hiding the truth and not admitting reality, or to any other country trying to minimize the true impact of this situation. A great deal of our politics also seems conveniently wrapped around conspiracy theories and deflection, so we are hardly the model to follow on these things.
The important matter
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Who crapped in your Wheaties today? You can rant against China all you want, they still own us. From our crappy Amazon surplus crap we don't need, to financing our useless debt incurred in the name of constant deficits and just about anything, they're going to own the world. While we agitate ourselves to civil war between two parties that are both pandering to lunatic fringe elements, China is quietly (or not so quietly) investing in their infrastructure, education (heck they have us do it for them) and