How Top-Valued Microsoft Has Avoided the Big Tech Backlash (nytimes.com) 71
Google, Facebook, Amazon and Apple are targets of government investigations and public outrage, facing accusations that they abuse their power in various ways, from exploiting personal information to stifling rivals. Conspicuously absent from most of that criticism? Microsoft, a tech company worth more than them all. From a report: The software giant, valued at more than $1 trillion by investors, is no stranger to government scrutiny and public criticism. It endured years of antitrust investigations, and faced a long public trial that almost split up the company. In the end, Microsoft paid billions in fines and settlements, and absorbed humbling lessons. But its "Evil Empire" moniker, once a label favored by the company's critics, has fallen by the wayside.
Market shifts and the evolution of Microsoft's business over the years help explain the transformation. It is less a consumer company than its peers. For example, Microsoft's Bing search engine and LinkedIn professional network sell ads, but the company as a whole is not dependent on online advertising and the harvesting of personal data, unlike Facebook and Google. [...] But Microsoft has also undergone a corporate personality change over the years, becoming more outward looking and seeking the views of policymakers, critics and competitors. That shift has been guided by Brad Smith, Microsoft's president, diplomat-in-residence and emissary to the outside world. In a new book, Mr. Smith makes the case for a new relationship between the tech sector and government -- closer cooperation and challenges for each side. "When your technology changes the world," he writes, "you bear a responsibility to help address the world that you have helped create." And governments, he writes, "need to move faster and start to catch up with the pace of technology."
Market shifts and the evolution of Microsoft's business over the years help explain the transformation. It is less a consumer company than its peers. For example, Microsoft's Bing search engine and LinkedIn professional network sell ads, but the company as a whole is not dependent on online advertising and the harvesting of personal data, unlike Facebook and Google. [...] But Microsoft has also undergone a corporate personality change over the years, becoming more outward looking and seeking the views of policymakers, critics and competitors. That shift has been guided by Brad Smith, Microsoft's president, diplomat-in-residence and emissary to the outside world. In a new book, Mr. Smith makes the case for a new relationship between the tech sector and government -- closer cooperation and challenges for each side. "When your technology changes the world," he writes, "you bear a responsibility to help address the world that you have helped create." And governments, he writes, "need to move faster and start to catch up with the pace of technology."
Microsoft and goalposts (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, but since Microsoft has studiously avoided the whole "get woke" crap... they managed to avoid public/political attention and scrutiny.
Re: (Score:2)
Social media companies substantially moved goalposts on what constitutes customer abuse by hiding behind "free" services
Can you really call it "hiding?" These companies were ad-supported from the very beginning. The fact they took so long to turn a profit doesn't change that they stuck with the original business plan.
Re: Microsoft and goalposts (Score:4, Insightful)
MS decided it's politically safer to screw businesses instead of consumers because co's can't vote (as much).
Re: (Score:3)
Win10 could have fooled me.
Re: (Score:1)
But consumers are not where they are focusing their investments. Consumer Windows sales are stagnant. They are trying to be IBM (during its glory days), not Facebook.
Re: (Score:1)
Doesn't change the fact that they are trying to screw consumers with Spyware 10.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't dispute it, but they seem to be either moving away from consumer services, or using it as a cash cow and letting it stagnate. They are barely working on a smart speaker. It's probably a hedge; they want to keep one tentacle in the consumer market "in case". Most their R&D is in corporate tools and services.
Re: (Score:2)
...moving away from consumer services, or using it as a cash cow and letting it stagnate. They are barely working on a smart speaker. It's probably a hedge; they want to keep one tentacle in the consumer market "in case"...
Don't forget the Xbox. They are building out Xbox services beyond video games and integrating it with PCs, mobile apps, smart TVs, etc. It's very obvious the end goal is to merge it all into a seamless home consumer entertainment platform that will run across all devices, but expect them to let others build most of the physical hardware, as Windows OS has done on PCs for decades.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, they tried to be a social media platform, and failed. But they have always stayed focused on what they wanted to do in the 90s: Own the living room.
Re: (Score:3)
Win10 is their best OS since 2000
Re: (Score:2)
I remember my Timex/Sinclair 1000 with 2K of RAM, and a BASIC ROM. The OS only supported two processes; a code editor, and running the code in the code editor. If you filled the code editor past 2K of source, it simply locked up and had to be reboot. No backspacing, no warning, just suddenly you worked too hard so your work is lost.
Re: (Score:2)
I think this needs to be elaborated upon. Because by itself it is not evidently true.
Re: (Score:1)
Win10 could have fooled me.
With the telemetry they went in with everything, they made it very clear what things could possibly be collected and then gave users the tools to wind it back later down the track after the backlash. Contrast that with Apple that have been parading their privacy stance, pushing ads and billboards claiming that what you do on your iPhone stays on your iPhone and then get spectacularly caught out lying when it's discovered that the device sends recordings back to Apple which they then farm out to 3rd parties.
Re:Microsoft and goalposts (Score:4, Informative)
I remember posting on Slashdot about the need for the government to go after Microsoft during their monopoly trial. The Microsoft back then and the Microsoft today are very different companies. Microsoft certainly still has their faults, but I think it is safe to say that they have done a lot to clean up their monopolistic act. The following come to mind off the top of my head:
Microsoft has gone from trying to extinguish open source to actually being the largest corporate contributor to it in the world
https://www.techrepublic.com/a... [techrepublic.com]
Microsoft has gone from doing everything they can to stop Linux to hosting more Linux on Azure than they do Windows:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/... [zdnet.com]
Microsoft has gone from being one of the worst security offenders to being one of the better ones and participating in the community: https://www.microsoft.com/secu... [microsoft.com]
I think the average person today is far more worried about google than they are microsoft.
Re: (Score:3)
The average person is not worried about either, but fed up about MS because their Windows reboots when the Netflix movie just got interesting.
To worry, they'd first of all even know what's going on. And the amount of people still using Facebook and all the other data leeches tells me that the majority doesn't.
Re: (Score:2)
The average person is not worried about either, but fed up about MS because their Windows reboots when the Netflix movie just got interesting.
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/stop-windows-automatic-reboots [laptopmag.com] You're welcome, not that difficult though.
Re: (Score:2)
yeah, until they change that mother #*$@#ing ribbon AGAIN, for no discernible reason.
Oh, and keep your filthy, grubby hands off of the snipping tool, it is an eidolon of perfection.
Re: (Score:2)
yeah, until they change that mother #*$@#ing ribbon AGAIN, for no discernible reason.
Oh, and keep your filthy, grubby hands off of the snipping tool, it is an eidolon of perfection.
Yes Microsoft seems hell bent on making people use quill pens and ink to write documents, rather than being screwed at the office with another Word update that fucking well moved a function somewhere that takes four mouse clicks and an undocumented macro to access!
Word needs to have the ability to become simplified and functions that you use frequently set to the ribbon. OH and when you right click on a function just maybe they might even let you reset a macro for that function. But no they have to use con
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft certainly still has their faults, but I think it is safe to say that they have done a lot to clean up their monopolistic act.
Yeah, like getting their asses kicked so their monopoly is not as dangerous:
Zune --> iPod
Microsoft Tablet PC --> iPad
Lumia/Nokia --> iPhone
IE --> Firefox (and then Chrome)
JScript/ActiveX --> JavaScript
Outlook --> Gmail
IIS Web Server --> Linux + other open source
Microsoft didn't clean up by choice.
Re: (Score:1)
hiding behind "free" services
Their services are free. Nobody is forced to give up anything. Everybody is wagging the dog. The only real problem with the internet is service provision. Nobody but the ISP can control access.
Re: (Score:2)
People are forced to give up their data, even people who aren't customers.
Re: (Score:1)
That's ridiculous. How is anybody forced to do anything?
I predict detractors (Score:3)
Using my incredible ability to see into the future, I predict some people around these parts may not entirely agree. Although some people seem to be operating off an impression of reality crafted and sealed 20 years ago.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure when their "Evil Empire" moniker fell by the wayside. It's mostly their bumbling incompetence which makes them appear less threatening for the moment.
Re: (Score:2)
I think it was the failure of windows mobile, coupled with Azure being a competitor for AWS who are the newest evil empire on the block.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure "bumbling incompetence" and "trillion-dollar valuation" fit in the same narrative.
Microsoft "Avoided" backlash... (Score:2)
They've been stung many times, especially in Europe. It's old hat to fine Microsoft now, even if they haven't been fined in a few years. Microsoft has surely developed the armour after being hit by European fines.
And yet Win10 is just a roomba in drag (Score:4, Informative)
It hoovers up user data faster than Facebook for all sorts of nefarious reasons.
So, nothing has changed. Microsoft is still evil, but maybe Facebook et al just appear to be more evil.
Re: (Score:2)
It hoovers up user data faster than Facebook for all sorts of nefarious reasons. So, nothing has changed. Microsoft is still evil, but maybe Facebook et al just appear to be more evil.
What data is being collected and how is it being used? Please cite.
Re: (Score:2)
We'd love to, but since Microsoft won't give any sort of detailed specs and a commitment not to change them, and since updates are mandatory and automatically installed, and since Microsoft has a track record of abusing software updates to push user-hostile changes, it's literally impossible to answer your question in any meaningful, future-proof way.
Re:And yet Win10 is just a roomba in drag (Score:5, Interesting)
Here is their "privacy" statement [microsoft.com] which outlines what they are collecting. Here's a little snip:
Microsoft collects data from you, through our interactions with you and through our products for a variety of purposes described below, including to operate effectively and provide you with the best experiences with our products. You provide some of this data directly, such as when you create a Microsoft account, administer your organizationâ(TM)s licensing account, submit a search query to Bing, register for a Microsoft event, speak a voice command to Cortana, upload a document to OneDrive, purchase an MSDN subscription, sign up for Office 365, or contact us for support. We get some of it by collecting data about your interactions, use, and experience with our products and communications.
And there's this little gem in the preceding paragraph:
Many of our products require some personal data to provide you with a service. If you choose not to provide data required to provide you with a product or feature, you cannot use that product or feature.
No, Microsoft does not need my personal data to use a service. The only thing they need is an email account, at best.
So what's your next excuse about them collecting data and using it as they see fit?
Re:And yet Win10 is just a roomba in drag (Score:5, Insightful)
"Microsoft collects data from you, through our interactions with you and through our products for a variety of purposes described below, including to operate effectively and provide you with the best experiences with our products. You provide some of this data directly, such as when you create a Microsoft account, administer your organizationÃ(TM)s licensing account, submit a search query to Bing, register for a Microsoft event, speak a voice command to Cortana, upload a document to OneDrive, purchase an MSDN subscription, sign up for Office 365, or contact us for support."
All of THAT except MAYBE Cortana commands should be 100% obvious to absolutely anybody.
THIS is the only bit that is even slightly vague or potentially concerning.
. We get some of it by collecting data about your interactions, use, and experience with our products and communications.
Likewise, this is not particularly scary either:
Many of our products require some personal data to provide you with a service. If you choose not to provide data required to provide you with a product or feature, you cannot use that product or feature.
So you can't use cortana to tell you what restaurants are having a special nearby if you don't share your location. You can't sync your contacts "People" app between different computers using your microsoft account if you refuse to sign up for one, and refuse to use People. Etc, etc.
Windows 10 does raise serious privacy concerns, but almost nothing you quoted is slightly concerning.
For example:
Stuff like the desktop search integrated with Bing with no real way to turn it off.
Cortana being impossible to entirely disable.
Telemetry not allowing you to drop below "basic"; and it being unclear EXACTLY what the telemetry includes are all HIGHLY problematic.
Re: (Score:3)
"upload a document to OneDrive,"
lol, so them claiming rights to search your data on onedrive isn't alarming to you?
Plus they do what they can to trick people into using it by making it look like a local folder?
You know what MS should need from me to use there OS? Nothing.
Re: (Score:2)
"lol, so them claiming rights to search your data on onedrive isn't alarming to you?"
The idea that if I send a file to microsoft to be hosted by them, share it with other people, access it via a web browser from anywhere, and have it indexed so I can search for it by its contents, that they have access to it is not particularly alarming or surprising to me, no.
If you don't want microsoft to have your files. Don't send them your files.
"Plus they do what they can to trick people into using it by making it loo
Re: (Score:2)
But if you do choose "OneDrive" then your data is going to get hoovered.
Re: (Score:2)
I decided not to ask about your personal life.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, because nothing screams "sense of belonging" like shutting up and RTFM. lol
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem is that in practice, the current situation is the reverse of that. The big multinational tech corporations clearly are bigger than some governments, as you can tell from the way they avoid tax obligations, don't bother sending senior executives when invited to hearings, laugh at new regulations regarding things like privacy and security, and so on. And with governments typically in office for only 4-5 years between elections, multinationals do tend to outlast them by a long way, and indeed poten
Bribed the right politicians . . . ? (Score:4, Insightful)
In the end, Microsoft paid billions in fines and settlements, and absorbed humbling lessons.
Paid to the government . . . ? Or to politicians . . . ?
Mr. Smith makes the case for a new relationship between the tech sector and government
Streamlined "one click" bribe system . . . as an app and in the cloud.
Re: Bribed the right politicians . . . ? (Score:2)
How have they avoided the problem? (Score:5, Interesting)
MS is a Steaming Pile (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:MS is a Steaming Pile (Score:5, Insightful)
Similarly there aren't the kinds of people running their divisions that will gladly sabotage new products in the most boneheaded ways like insisting that a Tablet PC run Windows and have a Start button/menu even though the UI on such a device won't be controlled with a keyboard and mouse. I'd read an article from one of the developers who worked on Microsoft's early tablets (circa late-90's, early-00's) who said that they had come up with a really good interface, but it got axed because the person running the Windows division insisted that everything had to have similar form/function even though it sucked doing that on a tablet. Just pure ego-driven incompetence that lead to a decade of stagnation and let Apple steal the market away with the iPad.
The Microsoft of today is just standard corporate evil. They're going to dick you over on pricing and might make it a little more difficult to move off of their platform than they actually have to, but they're not 90's Microsoft that would viciously attack anything that might be a new market for them to exploit. Gates wanted it all. It was pretty evident from the address they chose for the corporate office: 1 Microsoft Way. Of course this kind of strategy just makes a disjointed mess of a company, and Microsoft didn't always win so much as they made everybody lose. Satya Nadella has realized it's better to do focused business and create an ecosystem where everyone can earn a buck that Microsoft might only get a few pennies of themselves instead of trying to cut everyone else out and spending a lot of money trying to push out yet another project that needs to be supported.
Re: (Score:3)
Satya Nadella has realized it's better to do focused business and create an ecosystem where everyone can earn a buck that Microsoft might only get a few pennies of themselves instead of trying to cut everyone else out and spending a lot of money trying to push out yet another project that needs to be supported.
The secret to getting rich is not to do the work yourself, but to get others to do work for you. That's why people found companies and hire employees. As you're only one person, you can do the work of one person. Better to hire a bunch of people, and take a little off the top from each one.
MS got big by buying a number of half-assed products and repackaging them. Apple did the same. Now that services are more important than products, the tactic just needs to be tweaked.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows is like a 1957 Buick. Buick's are fine cars and there are those who have fine memories of them. But business today is like the Indy 500, and entering a '57 Buick in that race has a predictable outcome.
This is why Microsoft have wedged themselves into the infrastructure business. In IT that equals Azure. In your analogy, they can lay the pavement their Buicks and your Indycars use - either way, they are still making bank.
To take your analogy further, no one complains about them running Buicks anymore, just like this article is about.
Now, if they'd simplify their perpetual to subscription licence transition process I'd be happier, especially if they didn't make it so expensive.
MS Lobby money (Score:2)
seeking the views of policymakers
It's the other way around -- policymakers are seeking approval of the feeding hand. Microsoft increased their brib... lobby spending by orders of magnitude following their anti-trust fiasco in the 90s.
The corporate personality change at Microsoft? (Score:2)
Yea, it makers its money out of patents, copyrights and intellectual property rights [mail-archive.com]
“Microsoft has also undergone a corporate personality change over the years, becoming more outward looking and seeking the views of policymakers, critics and competitors”
Is this the same company that is extorting revenue out of Android hardwar
What timing (Score:2)
Anyway, my 10 minutes of email work ended up being 10 minutes of swearing at Microsoft.
Why the hell cant' we sue those cocksuckers for rebooting our computers without asking?
Yeah, I have Linux installed, and run it a lot. But there are things that I need
Re: (Score:3)
"But there are things that I need that don't run on Linux, so here we are."
Email and messaging don't require Windows. I solve the Windows problem by running it in VMs on Linux hosts. My Windows installs stay offline except when I've good reason to connect them. It's near effortless to use shared folders for file transfer between host and guest. Reverting to a clean install or any other state is as easy as rebooting into a snapshot.
BTW my mail client on all OS is Thunderbird. I run the Portable version on Wi
Avoids? Microsoft clings to the backslash (Score:2)
Very short memory (Score:3)
Quietly the best cloud option (Score:1)
I've worked at major retailers who jumped on the cloud bandwagon but would not go with Amazon's cloud offerings because Amazon is a major retail competitor
I know data companies that are trying to move to cloud hosting that can't go with Amazon because some of their data comes from retailers who won't allow it, so are looking at GCP. However Google is a data company and should be considered a potential competitor and avoided. Not to mention GCP isn't as mature in their offerings and Google's track record o
They didn't avoid it, they were the first. (Score:3)
Mr Bill Gates is also doing charity work. (Score:2)