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Crypto Platform Vauld Suspends Withdrawals, Trading Amid 'Financial Challenges' (techcrunch.com) 91
Vauld, a Singapore-headquartered crypto lending and exchange startup, has suspended withdrawals, trading and deposits on its eponymous platform with immediate effect as it navigates "financial challenges," it said Monday. From a report: The three-year-old startup -- which counts Peter Thiel-backed Valar Ventures, Coinbase Ventures and Pantera Capital among its backers and has raised about $27 million -- said it is facing financial challenges amid the market downturn, which it said has prompted customer withdrawals of about $198 million since June 12. Vauld enables customers to earn what it claims to be the "industry's highest interest rates on major cryptocurrencies." On its website, Vauld says it offers 12.68% annual yields on staking several so-called stablecoins including USDC and BUSD and 6.7% on Bitcoin and Ethereum tokens.
no regulations is bad mkay! (Score:3)
no regulations is bad mkay!
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Re:no regulations is bad mkay! (Score:5, Funny)
The price of freedom ... is bankruptcy.
Re: no regulations is bad mkay! (Score:2)
No the price of freedom is risk. You cannot have freedom without risk.
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No the price of freedom is risk. You cannot have freedom without risk.
You're only saying that because you don't have a bunch of crypto tied up on a platform that suspended withdrawals. People generally change their tune on financial regulations when they're the ones who ate a loss.
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Not really. I can be free AND avoid stupid risks. Provided that I can identify them.
Then again, people eat tide pads, so...
Re:Nope (Score:1)
I think you mean Maxipods
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Sorry, I'm no detergent gourmet, I'm prone to errors in that regard.
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The price of freedomis responsibility.
Re: no regulations is bad mkay! (Score:2)
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If you want to play the "no regulations" game, the foolproof way is to have your own crypto wallet and take care of it, just like Satoshi Nakamoto envisioned it. That said, I wouldn't lump "non-yield" platforms like Coinbase together with "yield platforms" like Celcius (or the one in the article), so I haven't yet formed a consisten
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When someone proudly boasts about how "they are not a bank", run away. See: "Buy Here Pay Here" car dealerships, "Payday loan" lenders, yield-generating "crypto platforms" etc
PayPal is upset you didn't mention them.
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Actually regulated as a bank in a lot of the world.
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wow (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a classic case of a panicky market causing a run on the bank.
You know, the whole reason we created the FDIC?
And bear in mind, readers, that the Federal Reserve and the FDIC are two separate federal entities even though they are both federally created.
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The sad truth is: there are a whole lot of people who haven't had the education they need in order to recognize facts like this before investing in crypto.
Everyone is born stupid. Everything we know has to be learned. Those who have not learned are vulnerable to scams. It's that simple.
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This.
Ignorance can be resolved. Stupidity cannot. If someone it ignorant, you can inform him and then he'll know. If someone's stupid, there's no amount of information you could offer that he would, or could, accept.
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This.
Ignorance can be resolved. Stupidity cannot. If someone it ignorant, you can inform him and then he'll know. If someone's stupid, there's no amount of information you could offer that he would, or could, accept.
Indeed. There are highly educated anti-vaxxers, covid-deniers, crypto-scam victims etc. Many people have education but are unwilling to use it. These people cannot be helped. They are doing it to themselves because they are too much in love with their misconceptions.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. One of the core problems is our culture, where admitting that you're wrong is equated with failure. It's even more socially acceptable to be demonstrably wrong and defending that point of view to the end than to simply say "yup. I was wrong".
Just look at our politicians and how we treat them. We have seen it time and time again that they are wrong. In a totally obvious way. Where facts were presented that showed them that, by any metric that could be applied, their position is wrong. Yet accepting this is political suicide, instead, if they stomp their feet like a child and refuse to accept reality, it's seen as a virtue.
We need to make being wrong socially acceptable.
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That bad? Well, a nation were people are not allowed to learn and admit they made a mistake has no future. Things have gotten way too complex for this to be a successful pattern.
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So it's better to be wrong and insist on remaining that way? Well, Konsequenz ist, auch Holzwege zuende zu gehen. And no, I have no idea if there's an English version of that idiom, it would lose too much in translation, but I'm confident you understand...
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There may have been some misunderstanding here. Actually I think what you should do it to admit the mistake, explain what you have learned and not make it again. Somebody that does this can still make too many mistakes, but a few should no result in them being seen as failures. I do think people that either refuse to admit clear mistakes or that make them again should be removed from office immediately. So anybody that does "follow the wrong track resolutely" (my own attempt at a translation) should be rega
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It would be beneficial to learn from mistakes. Also something that is not really happening when already admitting that a mistake was made is a nono. Because changing the behaviour now would actually be admitting that there was a mistake, and we can't have that!
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It's worse than you think. We (as a society) can't distinguish between lying and mistaken. We can't distinguish between being wrong and circumstances changing or new information being discovered that suggests a different conclusion. We have only the virtuous right (even if they're wrong but refuse to see the new information) and ignoble wrong.
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This.
Ignorance can be resolved. Stupidity cannot. If someone it ignorant, you can inform him and then he'll know. If someone's stupid, there's no amount of information you could offer that he would, or could, accept.
Indeed. There are highly educated anti-vaxxers, covid-deniers, crypto-scam victims etc. Many people have education but are unwilling to use it. These people cannot be helped. They are doing it to themselves because they are too much in love with their misconceptions.
Never attribute to something else what is adequately explained by stupidity.
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Indeed. There are highly educated anti-vaxxers, covid-deniers, crypto-scam victims etc. Many people have education but are unwilling to use it.
Some people simply never grow out of the teenage mentality that bad things only happen to other people.
As for me, I had shit luck as a teenager, so I always figured if something bad was going to happen, it would happen to me.
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As for me, I had shit luck as a teenager, so I always figured if something bad was going to happen, it would happen to me.
You're not unlucky. You're just a dumbass.
-- Red Forman
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Indeed. There are highly educated anti-vaxxers, covid-deniers, crypto-scam victims etc.
Attending a big, well known university, because your parents have lots of money and/or political connections, does not make you "well educated".
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Does not work like that in Europe. Yet we have these morons as well.
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Stupidity cannot.
Says who? Do you have evidence to back this up? Because what little study I have done into psychology and neurology both suggest that the human brain is supremely adaptable, especially when still young, and that all manner of cognitive abilities can be corrected, trained, and refined.
Good education can and should focus on both the provision of accurate data and the training of good cognitive processes for utilizing this data (put simply: critical thinking skills).
If there is solid evidenc
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If someone is hellbent on wanting to believe something, no amount of evidence will sway them.
For reference, see religion.
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I wouldn't say born stupid, it seems to be an acquired disability. Unfortunately, since curing stupidity requires accepting new information and adopting new thinking and the condition blocks both, it tends to be highly resistant to correction.
Kind of like if you had the car keys you could easily retrieve the car keys and if you had your glasses you could easily find your glasses.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
..they need in order to recognize facts like this before investing in crypto.
It is misnomers like this that allowed the cryptos to flourish - the fact is trading cryptos should never be called 'investing' - it is called speculating and if the term is used correctly either by regulation or in solicitations, there would be no doubt that cryptos are get rich quick schemes that most speculators are likely to lose. Even highly reputable sites make the mistake and allowed newbie speculators to lose mostly all in the end.
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I'd argue that there is a difference between being stupid and simply being ignorant.
Don't get me started on whether education is producing those idiots on its watch in the first place.
Re: wow (Score:2)
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Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Except with a bank we know they don't have everyone's money. They loan it out to earn interest, and interest payments fund the bank's operational costs.
Crypto exchanges aren't supposed to be loaning out customer funds, or using customer funds to pay their workers. Transaction fees keep them afloat. So when an exchange is forced to halt withdrawals it looks really bad; there are multiple examples of exchanges running out of money because of fraud.
Re:wow (Score:4, Insightful)
So, long story short, if some crypto "platform" promises yields, they are supposed to loan customer's crypto out or trade it, and an admission that this will happen is typically hidden deep in the terms of service. Also, transaction fees keep the lights on but are insufficient to generate yield. And even if they did (let's assume a platform imposes huge transaction fees, which would risks dooming them to irrelevance, but let's assume), transaction fees are not a stable source of revenue while the promised yields these platforms promise to give out are supposedly stable.
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And even if they are legit, they just lend to the other Crypto lenders, and it all ends up inside some ponzies that are at the bottom.
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Or, more likely given the crypto landscape, they're a Ponzi scheme. It's incredibly easy to set up Ponzi schemes when the central idea of cryptocurrency is to avoid any kind of regulation.
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I appreciate that not all problems with crypto are because of Ponzi schemes, but it's something that we need to keep in mind as a possibility. A lot of the crypto businesses that are having problems right now have at least some of the signs of Ponzi schemes [investor.gov]: unreasonably high and consistent promised returns, everything happening through an unregulated process, and companies that are opaque about exactly where the returns are supposed to come from. Sure, that isn't proof, but when the warning signs are the
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Crypto exchanges aren't supposed to be loaning out customer funds, or using customer funds to pay their workers.
I imagine they're using them to "expand the business", ie. Buy some nice offices, fancy company cars, cover the hard-working CEOs dinner and golf expenses, send him on vacation when he overdoes it, etc.
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Except with a bank we know they don't have everyone's money. They loan it out to earn interest, and interest payments fund the bank's operational costs.
Crypto exchanges aren't supposed to be loaning out customer funds, or using customer funds to pay their workers. Transaction fees keep them afloat.
But transaction fees aren't enough to make you rich. And the owners of the crypto exchange started their business for the sole purpose of making themselves rich. Since crypto has no legitimate use, the only way to get rich from crypto is fraud.
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Hah. If you couldn't get banks to not loan out too much money, what's to stop the Deregulated Finance industry from doing it?
Customer's money was used to buy more crypto investments because it couild only go up and
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Well, yes, it is. The slight problem is that the USD is not "indefinitely printable" and the insurance banks have is not "fake". If you lie enough about the competition, you can make any crappy product look good.
Re:wow (Score:4, Informative)
Erh... no.
If you think that the bank is sitting on your money and waiting for you to withdraw it, you're an idiot. You know, at least you should know, that a bank uses that money to hand out loans. These loans create the interest that you get for your savings (plus a not too shabby surplus interest for the bank).
Also, banks are incredibly severely regulated. At least over here. Bank laws over here require that every bank has to deposit 8% of their loan volume in government bonds. Give or take, depending on the loan (that's why mortgages are fairly cheap, they don't require that much money to be tied up in bonds). Take your average bank and ponder how much 8% of their credit volume is. You can't even try to withdraw that amount of money in a relevant time. Even if you're Elon Musk.
Also, savings (again, at least over here) are guaranteed by the government up to a certain amount (IIRC it's like 100k). In other words, even if the bank goes bankrupt, the government will cover your losses. That is quite comforting. And a pretty good reason for the government to hold them by the balls with regulations that would make any other industry throw a fit.
All that contributes to the stability we have in banks here. And that in turn contributes to the trust people have in banks. Do banks fail? Yeah. Well, no. "Surprisingly" whenever a bank is about to fail, some other bank hoovers them up and they "consolidate" without much of a hitch. You, as the average bank customer, don't even notice anything, except that there's now a different logo on your statement.
Bank business is a bit like sausages. You don't want to know just what kind of shit is going on inside. But then again, you also don't really need to. It works. For you. Your money is safe. And after all, that's all 99.9% of the people really care about.
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And yet banks turn profits that are the envy of most other industries. It's almost like regulations that protect consumers are a good thing, not just for consumers but also for industry. I wish more people would understand that.
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In all fairness, they turn those fantastic profits despite those regulations. We're talking about a business that deals in a commodity literally every other business needs.
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They still have to get that money from somewhere. Imagine an industry where you have 8% of your assets tied up in dead weight.
Re: wow (Score:1)
You are generally correct for standard situations. But people lost money to banks in times of turmoil.
For example, if you have rampant inflation of the currency you have savings in. Sometimes it can be so severe that amount for which you could buy eg. a car can be devauled to the point where you can buy only eg. a loaf of bread, over a period of a few days or weeks.
In times like these (I experienced it in 1980s ex-Yugoslavia), banks delayed withdrawals so people couldn't convert increasingly worthless money
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Yugoslavia was a very special case, of a country that was essentially ceasing to exist. A situation that is fairly unlikely to happen with the US or the EU at this point.
Re: wow (Score:1)
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Sorry to tell you, but everyone saw that one coming. After Tito died, we pretty much expected the Balkan to explode any minute. It was somehow kept together 'til the Iron Curtain was history, then Yugoslavia was history.
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Is it though? This would be true only if the crypto exchange were engaging in good-faith trading. This is by no means an established fact. More likely, this was a swindle from the beginning.
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But in this case, there is nowhere near enough there. All the money paid in that they are legally required to pay back is vastly more than everything they are owed. The problem is not peop
Risk adjusted rate of return anyone? (Score:2)
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Depends what you think the risk-free rate of return is -- usually something like US Treasury Bonds so that's been between 1-3%
The risk-adjusted rate of return is equal to the difference between its return and the RFRR -- so you have to subtract that off and invert it to compute the implied risk.
12.68% is 20% more than S&P 500 long term (Score:5, Insightful)
average gains [investopedia.com]. These are most of the biggest companies on Earth. Why would a shitty cryptoscam start up promise this? Because Ponzi.
The grand master plan of crypto (Score:3, Interesting)
The plan for all cryptocurrencies isn't what they want to make you think it is. It's more sinister than the egalitarian image the crypto boys portray for it.
After the 2008 financial meltdown, cryptocurrencies were born out of it, declared to be the means by which people could be freed from banks/governments, and promised to avoid any such future meltdowns from happening ever again.
But the crypto boys watched closely the result of that meltdown, and formulated their plan: create a new form of currency, and for it a new financial system detached from traditional ones (those burdened by "governments and regulations") - they called it "DeFi" for "Decentralized Finance", but its dirty little secret is that it's really "Deregulated Finance".
Their plan is to make this new money be adopted by the masses, so they start it off with a low price, then gradually increase it, by virtue of them just pulling numbers out of thin air for its value, until it catches the attention of the masses - then it gets more and more "valuable" from the collective faith of its given value ("network effect"), until traditional institutions and the typical "1%" billionaires start to notice and, greedy as they are, want in on the action too.
So now those that got in at the ground floor have gained all this "value" out of thin air, and once they're ready, they'll pull out all pretty much at once - that it'll create a sell-off panic, and a new meltdown is born! And because of their "De[regulated]Fi" system, the bros have already shifted all the risks away from themselves onto others, so they'll make out like bandits, leaving everyone else to "hodl" the bag.
But the bros were really observant about that last meltdown - and noticed all the "bailouts" the big banks got - so as they were shifting the risks to others, they increased their investments into what would get the next bailouts - so in the end they'll make out like bandits twice: the first time from suckering everyone else into their pump-and-dump scam, and again once they benefit from the bailouts that'll get handed out.
And there you have it folks, the real master plan of crypto.
--
"Those who fail to accept it will mod the truth down to -1." -Prof. Feynman
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>once they benefit from the bailouts that'll get handed out.
There will be no bailouts. Everyone playing in crypto is totally doing so at their own risk, especially the exchanges and coin creators. They all know what they are doing.
Never expect a bailout for the little guys either, they have no money so who cares about them? /s
The Future Culture War (Score:1)
Racism, misogyny, homophobia, religious fascism, will all disappear. The real culture war will between libertarians and anarcho-capitalists.
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And whoever loses, we win.
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Racism, misogyny, homophobia, religious fascism, will all disappear.
You severely underestimate the ability of the human race to be multitask their grievances.
They can't keep it above $20k anymore (Score:4, Insightful)
All I can say is good riddance, or at least I hope so. As the regulatory noose tightens the money laundering and ponzi scams will go away and the bottom will drop out. All that'll be left are a handful of speculators who lose their shirts.
This can still change of course. They're still trying to get crypto classified as a commodity so they can have the much weaker commodities regulations instead of the SEC looking into their shady schemes.
Commodities get a lot less regulation because they have actual real world value and as such are much safer investments. If I buy 1000 pork belies I know I can at least get something out of them even if it's only jerky. Crypto is obviously not a commodity, but that's not stopping them from gunning for less regulation.
If they get it then that's going to be bad. They'll be able to run an almost completely unregulated securities exchange. I'd like to think
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Despite a ton of market manipulation from big players who are desperate to keep confidence in the market from collapsing (since it's all funny money so once confidence goes the whole ponzi busts). Surprisingly Ethereum has held above $1000 for the most part, but that's probably just Great Fools "hedging" their Bitcoin losses with Ethereum
I thought it might go down faster than it's doing right now, but then I thought about it and realized there's an awful lot of people who's hopes and beliefs have revolved around Bitcoin for the last few years and it's going to be difficult for them to let go.
The bubble has burst but it looks like it will be a long slow decline.
I'm not sure where the point is that mining is no longer profitable because of running costs, but it does exist. Once we pass that point then who's going to maintain the blockchain?
There's a LOT of market manipulation (Score:2)
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Surprisingly Ethereum has held above $1000 for the most part
It's the monkey NFTs. Has to be.
Greed (Score:3)
Satoshi: Trustless. Permissionless. Be your own bank.
Scammers: Send us your crypto and we'll send more back. Trust us.
Greed creates fools.
You don't say (Score:1)
May All Crytocurrency All Go Down the Tubes. (Score:2)
Trading crypto (Score:1)