I'm sure it's a bubble. My brother had around 20 bitcoin from several years ago (He ran a miner and put a few thousand into it). He just recently sold all his bitcoin and used the money to put his mortgage into a manageable amount (California insanely priced house), so I'm happy for him and glad he is out of it BEFORE the bubble burst.
I saw this as a bubble and didn't want to get in, like all the other bubbles.
In the time since, my beliefs have changed. Bubbles represent high risk, high reward. There's a place in my portfolio for that, but I've got to keep balanced. As the high risk investment rises, I've got to sell and buy safer stuff proportionally.
I know it's a scam, but someone makes money off every scam, as long as you keep your exposure to an amount you're willing to lose.
Here's my problem with astronomically risky investments: if you don't hold them until you've got everything you could ever want out of them, you're severely hurting your chances of getting what you want out of them.
Take bitcoin over the last ~7 years, going from ~$4 to ~$10K. If you invested $4K at the start, then sold half your investment every time it doubled, you'd have about $44K today - quite a snappy ROI: better than 40% annual increase, but hardly life changing and nothing compared to the $10M you'd
Actually, the ounce was once a $20 piece.And when one ounce of gold was worth $20, it bought you much more than you can get for one ounce of gold now.
It really depends on what you're buying. When gold was $20 per ounce, the average rent was $20 per month and a nice suit cost you $20 per month. Today, an ounce of gold can still pay the average person's month rent and you can still get a custom tailored suit for an ounce of gold.
During that same time (1934) eggs were 29 cents a dozen. You could only buy 68 dozen eggs then where today even if you bought expensive free range organic eggs, you could buy close to 400 dozen eggs with that same 1oz gold piece an
Speculating on Bitcoin and other crypto is wonderful as long as you're not too damn serious enough about it. Think of it as a game where you could potentially earn real money rather than mere in-game credits for buying new armour or magick spells. Or maybe not, if there's an y truth to reports of serious gamers dying of starvation or committing suicide because of their virtual losses. .
Something it seems everyone is overlooking in all this talk about speculating on BTC: It was ostensibly designed to be a currency used similar to other fiat currencies. Except now that everyone is treating it as a commodity, its lost all value as a currency. What sane person has actually used BTC "in exchange for goods or services" in the last 6 months? Nobody.
Um, I did. I bought a computer case from a large online retailer for bitcoin with what my PC mined in a month. It would be worth almost $1K right now. Do I regret making the purchase? No, I thought it was a good idea at the time and hindsight 20/20 is still hindsight.
It's that happy place where greed meets ignorance. The stupidity that can arise from this is near infinite. The part that gets on my nerves is the people who go off saying I don't understand. I really do believe they think they're clever, but fact is, they're just lucky. I wish I'd gotten in at lower prices, but at this point is the stupidest point possible to get in to it. Especially with what seems to be an acceleration. I was thinking Wednesday maybe it might be worth picking up a couple hundred wo
I owned one coin in 2010 - it was worth about $4.50, a miner gave it to me as payment for software in lieu of $5 cash, also because there was precious little he could do with his coins in 2010 and he just wanted to practice using them. I held it about 3.5 years, during which time it inflated about 50x in value to the $200 neighborhood.... and I sold it.
Now, ~3.5 years later, and another 50x in "value" increase - woulda, coulda, shoulda just bought $4K in coi
Is this really that much different from FOREX trading?
Also, I always love the gold standard weenies.. gold is only valuable because weâ(TM)ve agreed it is. There seem to be enough folks agreeing on Bitcoin at the moment...
Gold are used as a dental material, as contact material, for wires, as interface material, as medical devices (directly and indirectly), for mirrors and as protective layers. Among many other uses.
As the AC below posted the use of gold is vital to the semiconductor industry and electronics.
97% of the US money supply exists are numbers in computer networks not even as fiat paper.
bitcoin just jumped that 3% gap, and locked out the ability to supersonic print billions a month for the bankters club, and attach debt to each dollar printed.
So while both systems are faith based, and both systems do not have physical material value backing them, some might say bitcoin is the lesser evil due to the lack of debt attached to the creation of each unit.
The whole concept of money is madness. Somehow it kind of still works. Bitcoin is not really all that much different. In a few ways it's actually better than traditional fiat currency. In a few ways it's worse. But the idea that it has value is exactly as crazy as the idea that regular money has value.
I guess gold is also a distributed pyramid scheme. Higher demand drives higher prices and higher increases demand. If you were one of the first cavemen to invest in gold before all the others started valuing it (i.e. when you could just pick it up off the ground), you'd be super rich today.
BTW I think a scheme requires intent (i.e. a schemer). I think this is just a pyramid with no scheme.
I'd say about one third of Bitcoin holders are religious zealots. It's a faith-based coin (like fiat), but for whatever reason, Bitcoin has cast a spell to amass a large faithful following, the "hodl"-ers who will not sell no matter what calamity ensues. Every dip tests their faith, and then their convictions get stronger. It's a bit like Stockholm syndrome, or Marquis de Sade's training, or any other enslavement process where you're rewarded after your punishment until you enjoy the punishment itself, n
The problem is its failing as a currency right now. Who in their right mind over the last 6 months has bought a single thing with BTC? Nobody. The appreciation of BTC is so high nobody is going to spend it. They're merely building a giant pyramid out of nothing.
The reason not to abstain from using it as a currency (e.g. spending it) is not that the price is going to get higher.
Spending bitcoin even though you think the price will increase is no more crazy than not exchanging all your investments for bitcoin even though you think the price will increase. Lost profit from spending your bitcoins is no different than lost profit from having never bought bitcoins.
I'm sure many people actually do think this way, and this may be their personal (yet irrational) reason fo
But I keep kicking myself for not buying in.
I figured $2000 must be the top. Wrong
I figured $4000 must be the top. Wrong
I figured $6000 must be the top. Wrong
I figured $10000 must be the top. Who knows.
Of course once I buy in, you know that will be as high as they ever go.
I think this is the main reason that bitcoin will never be useful as a alternative to currency. It is to much like gold Krugerrand's or something. Technically, you can use both as money but they have no real fixed value.
At least with a a dollar, or even a shekel, euro, peso, I have some concept of what it is worth. An based on what I know it being worth today, I can reasonably figure out what it will be worth next week, next month, or even next year. You can't do that with bitcoins.
This is only happening because it's still the very early stages. Once the real money is in, and it's coming, then the price will stabilize. But by then you've priced yourself out of it.
I'm not sure I agree. Bitcoin as such is inherently unsuited to use as currency.
Transferring bitcoin between people can not be done without fees, and it can not be done instantly (well I guess it's done instantly, but you won't know if you're successful for several minutes). Additionally if you want full and complete control over your wallet, you need to store an absurd amount of data, and update it with every transaction done by anyone worldwide.
This means that the only value in Bitcoin is in speculating with it, and speculative commodities tend to have large price swings. Note that my criticisms are specific to bitcoin in this regard, and a different crypto-currency may still make practical sense in the future.
Bitcoin is far more like gold than like cash really. Theoretically you can buy things with either, but in practice neither one is good to use for that purpose.
So yes, I think it will become more stable than it is now price-wise, but I don't see it as ever being used as a real currency in any meaningful way. Additionally there is a huge risk of government action against it (several governments have already banned it's use) which could cause major problems going forward, and there's also always the risk of some cryptographic flaw being discovered that could make every bitcoin worthless overnight.
I have a (very small) amount of bitcoin because I think they're pretty neat, but I think there's still a huge amount of risk here, and I don't think this will ever replace currency.
I'm not sure I agree. Bitcoin as such is inherently unsuited to use as currency.
Transferring bitcoin between people can not be done without fees, and it can not be done instantly (well I guess it's done instantly, but you won't know if you're successful for several minutes). Additionally if you want full and complete control over your wallet, you need to store an absurd amount of data, and update it with every transaction done by anyone worldwide.
So, it's not practical for buying a sandwich from Subway, or a bag of nails from Home Depot. For trading between two major corporations, or buying drugs from Mexico, or large international deals, it's probably ideal. The transaction fee is probably minimal compared to the purchases being made, and might actually help keep costs down and fit through certain tax loop-holes.
Bitcoin could find itself a medium for large-value currency exchanges but not for Bob and Sue to spend at Walmart.
I try not to invest in anything I don't understand. I mean, I have some tenuous grasp of mathematical transforms and enough cryptography to be aware of its dangers, but yeah, the financial part of bitcoin seems like an awful lot of speculation from other people who probably don't understand it. Apparently the main thing that makes bitcoin valuable is its scarcity, which may be mathematically guaranteed... right up until the time that it isn't. I also don't like investing in money to make money out of mon
Sure, with a 1985 dollar I could buy a gallon of gas, then with a 1999 dollar I could buy three quarts of gas, then with a 2007 dollar I could buy a quart of gas, then with a 2011 dollar I could buy a half gallon of gas... very stable the dollar is. At least non-energy goods are more predictable, they almost always go up in price.
The price of gas is a good example. Looking back over charts I can see that the price of gas for the past 10 years has been between $2.00 and $3.50. Depending on what chart I'm looking at. Based on that example I can reasonably expect the price of gallon of gas to be around this price this time next year.
Now this is just an expectation, it doesn't mean it will be. There could be any number of economic reasons that could push the price of a gallon of gas outside that range. But with that being said ba
If you factor in all the oil wars in the middle east and Africa then the "real" cost of oil is a "bit" higher.
Say a few trillion in taxpayer money, thou some might say a war would be manufactured somewhere else to continue the Mil-Indust complex feeding frenzy.
My favorite single item being the F-35 at $2 trillion that doesn't work.
Bitcoin is not a stable store of value (at least not yet). It *was* a good medium of exchange before the transaction fees jumped through the roof. Back when it was a good medium of exchange, it didn't really matter what the price was. If you wanted to buy something, you would just use less bitcoins if the value of bitcoin increased and more if it dropped.
I don't need to know what pesos will be worth in a year from now to buy things in pesos. The bank or whatever just does a conversion between currencies
Well, buy/sell prices are a range, not a single number, so you can be sure there are complications if you actually want to sell some Bitcoin for the $10,000.
Has anyone actually cashed out their gains with Bitcoin is what I want to know. Executed a big sale to someone who isn't also trading Bitcoin. The dizzying upward trend tells me probably no. I'll wait until there are actual corrections in this market before I believe it's real. A market without corrections is too good to be true.
I think that what you did is the way to go. I rook out all the value that I had originally put in, plus a rough guess of interest as well.
Right now, I have a nice sum left and am watching it to see what happens left. If it bursts, I will have lost nothing except a free experiment
Do I think it will burst any time soon? No. If it carries on either growing or levelling off, for a year or two, I will be highly amused at all the experts who have been prophecying its imminent destruction. It reminds me of th
I mined a fraction of a coin 4 or 5 years ago when it was still feasible to use a standard you and get some returns. I put that in a MtGox account and watched the value fluctuate. Knowing that the $70 to $100 I had then would be worth much more now makes me upset.
Should you really kick yourself? The way I see it, buying bitcoin for currency speculation purposes is basically just gambling. You can only make money in proportion to how much you're willing to gamble on the future price of bitcoin.
I think this is basically just Tulipmania On Computers, and at some point governments around the world will grow intolerant of cryptocurrency's only notable point of usefulness, criminal finance, and outlaw the exchange of cryptocurrencies, at least without proper documentation
Recently, my mom heard about it on the radio, and asked me to research it for her. Until then, I'd thought it died in the MtGox era. I thought it looked interesting, and put in a small amount. With my usual flawless timing, it went down right after. Then it went back up! Then mom decided she'd try it, so I put some in for her. Between it being an ATH (All time high) and the fact that she was invested, I expected a dip, but it kept going up!!
Realistically, I still think it will dip sometime, but I'm ho
No, because it's a wildly unpredictable item. I fully expect it to go down the tubes as soon as I get some despite a seemingly stable steady increase right before.
If you're looking at it as an investment and concerned with whether it goes "up" or "down" in terms of dollars, then you don't understand the point of bitcoin.
I tell people that cryptocurrencies are not at all investment vehicles all the time. As you're alluding, the purpose of bitcoin is pseudonymity, allowing somewhat-anonymous ~monetary transactions between parties. This is hard to facilitate when the value of the underlying ~currency is not terribly stable; a buyer could convert dollars to bitcoins, send them to a seller, and then the seller could be screwed by plummeting BTC values when trying to exchange them into another currency.
I buy bitcoin to get away from inflationary fiat currencies. I buy it because it's a great store of value -- not because of what it's worth in terms of dollars (because who cares) but bitcoin is actually deflationary because the number that will ever exist is hard-capped at 21 million and an estimated 2-3 million are permanently lost.
I don't buy things with bitcoin. I HODL. Bitcoin is my savings.
Way down the road, when the technology is mature, is when I'll start using it
not because of what it's worth in terms of dollars (because who cares) but bitcoin is actually deflationary because the number that will ever exist is hard-capped at 21 million and an estimated 2-3 million are permanently lost.
Actually, that is a major problem with bitcoins. Not there is a limit to how many that can be made but the "permanently" lost thing. Once the limit is mined out, with no way to recover lost coins, the ones that will remain will get more scarce. This will drive the cost of the remaining ones up. So its only a "deflationary" currency, as you put it, because new ones can still be added. Once that is done, it will become a inflationary currency just like almost everything else.
Also, someone pointed out to me once that bitcoin is also like gold in this manner. There is only so much gold int the world, which isnt' true. What is true is there is only so much gold that is available by current technological ability. There is actually no limit on the amount of gold. But anyway gold coin isn't like a bitcoin. If a gold coin is lost it isn't destroyed. It can be found again. This isn't true with a bitcoin. Once its lost its gone.
And as someone else pointed out gold has uses other than currency. Better uses.
You have inflation/deflation backwards [investopedia.com]. Bitcoin is a deflationary currency and when you can no longer mine new ones, will become even more deflationary over time from list coins, not inflationary.
If a gold coin is lost it isn't destroyed. It can be found again. This isn't true with a bitcoin. Once its lost its gone.
If I pay by check, and the recipient of the check loses it, I can stop payment on that particular check and write another.
Similarly, would you agree, there is a great need to add this feature to cryptocurrencies? People should be able to "stop payment" on a lost coin, and replace it with another coin, at a cost that's as minimal as writing out another check to replace a lost check.
Seems to me, that would overcome the largest objection people have to cryptocurrencies.
Also, someone pointed out to me once that bitcoin is also like gold in this manner. There is only so much gold int the world, which isn't' true. What is true is there is only so much gold that is available by current technological ability. There is actually no limit on the amount of gold.
Once the alchemists get that sorted out, you mean? Actual, practical nuclear transmutation is a long long way off; for all intents and purposes, gold is finite. Or until we start mining asteroids, if they have any gold. That's also a long way off.
Actual, practical nuclear transmutation is a long long way off; for all intents and purposes, gold is finite.
Well when I posted my OP is was thinking of extracting gold from sea water and asteroid mining. I was specifically thinking of 433 Eros that is supposed to contain more gold than ever has been mined on Earth.
There are already plans in place to start mining it and bringing it back to Earth. Personally, I think the gold would have better use if we used it in space rather than hording like some dragon on Earth.
As for nuclear transmutation of elements, yeah it can be d
We're still a long way out from the technology to mine asteroids, though I suppose it's inevitable someday we will. It actually irks me just a little when I see something on the market like Goldschlager, what a waste of a fantastic metal: a superior conductor of electricity, resistant to rust, corrosion, or tarnish, almost infinitely malleable, and then there it's historic, symbolic value.. and it's wasted in some hooch so college kids can feel rich while getting drunk. Every flake has to add up. Sure,
Asteroid mining has been only 50 years away for the last 50 years. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.
When it comes to your views on gold being wasted we not only reading the same book, but the same page and verse. When I see it in a historical artifact I value the artifact more for its history than its gold content. To me it would be just as valuable made of copper or even clay. If we where valuing it only on its gold content I would see the gold far more valuable being used as solar sails or s
I'm a fan of gold, too....or used to be (not buying any more now). But I strongly trust the bitcoin tech; it's proven itself over the past 8-9 years IMO. I'm all in.
If Elon Musk really invented this, then he would go full throttle and arrange to only accept bitcoin for stock in a new company with exclusive Martian trading rights - real South Sea Company style. As it is, I suspect the Russian government, and some lackeys with similar trade sanctions in place, are using this to evade them. The rest are human traffickers and drug kingpins taking you all for a ride along the way.
Except the drug dealers actually deliver. There's plenty of dark web sites that beg for bitcoins so you can get access to some secret part of the site. But it doesn't exist, you pay and get no response whatsoever. Or there's sites selling hitman services but it's just a kid taking your coin and LOLing at you. But the drug guys? They most likely will deliver, many are fakes no doubt, but "legit" online drug dealers are very real.
Yes, if by own you mean currently residing on a hard drive that crashed several years back. I'm patiently waiting for the market to hit a price point where it's economically feasible to send it to one of the data recovery companies.
I can't explain Bitcoin's price except as a bubble.
There are better cryptocurrencies (faster transaction times, better anonymity).
There are better currencies (more stable store of value, quicker transaction times, better acceptance, etc).
I consider it similar to Tesla - sure it has a high price now, but a closer look makes the price appear to be inflated.
Sure I'd wish I bought some when the price was under a buck. I also wish I bought the winning lottery ticket. Doesn't mean I'm going to rush out and buy lottery tickets or bitcoin now.
Well, at least you [dasunt] mentioned "bubble", though if I ever got a mod point, I'd still say your mention was short of "insightful". Not intended to imply the moderation has improved because you haven't been modded that way (yet).
The value of Bitcoin is a matter of opinion, just like stock price. Essentially it is a claim that knowing a certain string of digits has some value. On its face, that is an insane claim and the only basis I can imagine is your fantasy that someone else will agree with your asse
Stock prices are part real company value (current assets and profit), part speculation on future profits, part speculation on future stock price based on various theories ranging from price curve shapes to planet alignment. Changes to profit outlooks for a company still have strong effects on stock prices so they are not completely disconnected.
The price of Bitcoin is however purely based on how many are currently buying hoping to sell later at a higher price, compared to how many are selling now at the
I totally agree. Although Bitcoin certainly proved the concept of a cryptocurrency and blockchain, its actual practical use as a currency has became nil. Transaction costs are high, and transactions are slow. Unlike - for instance Ether - there is no positive society-wide side-effect of mining.
So as of now, I consider Bitcoin a huge bubble, since the only incentive to buy a bitcoin, is to speculate that it's value will increase, due to higher interest than supply. For money transfers, my VISA card, SEPA mo
In less than 12 hours the shift has gone from 80% NO and 20% YES to 77% NO and 22~23% YES - through an increase in 400+ YES andnearly 0 NO on a weekday; that's not a valid polling! Watch out for YES scammers trying to inflate the fake interest in bitcoin, because it literally increases their wealth - if they can ever actually cash out. Look into nonparametric analysis sequences (runs) to understand how unlikely this outcome would be if random. For example https://www.ibm.com/support/kn... [ibm.com] and remember this
A house can be a good investment if you intend to live in it, or rent it to others. If you just buy just so you can sell for a profit, you are asking for trouble. Individual stocks can be a good investment if you believe in the company you are investing in, you've done your homework, and believe it will succeed. Those who constantly buy and sell just to ride the waves generally lose money. If you are a corn farmer, corn futures might be a good investment, as a hedg
There is a thing called the volatility index, some traders follow it and base their investing off it.
Some have the idea its bad, some have the idea its good, and 3rd set sees any kind of movement they can "hedge" as potential for "churn" and they make their money off that.
So its all depend on your approach to fleecing the masses.
One day, somebody will find a critical flaw that causes the whole house of cards to collapse. Or maybe another cryptocurrency that is somehow "better" will come along, attracting droves of people who sell their bitcoin to get in on the new thing. EVERY currency rises and falls. Bitcoin is not yet tried and tested. It's still a very high risk investment, despite its high current value. I'm certainly not ready to invest my own life savings in bitcoin!
There's this funny thing with Bitcoin at the moment: owning less than 70 000 satoshi (= 0.007 BTC) is like owning nothing due to transactional fees.
Hopefully, scaling will be resolved sooner or later because in the absence of it Bitcoin cannot grow much further and much faster and it cannot really become an alternative currency.
When Bitcoin first came out, I had just started a new job. Normally, I love to play with new things, and normally I would have probably set up and mined it. But not just right then. When I finally did have time, it was no longer new, and I was looking at other things. Damn...
In any case, I had purchased a fraction of a BTC a couple of years ago, just to be able to pay for a couple of things online. For example, I found it appropriate to donate to the Pirate Party using BTC. Last summer, I exchanged what was
Unfortunately we don't know if it's a bubble. We just don't know what people are using bitcoin for, that's by design. So it's impossible to work out what a Bitcoin should be worth.
We all accept a British pound is worth more than an American dollar. It could be the actual value of a Bitcoin is $100 000.
I am sure any financial advisor worth their salt would tell you it's ok to speculate on Bitcoin. But do it with money you can afford to loose.
I've really disappointed there isn't any "I am Satoshi Nakamoto" option!
Although the poll appears to ask a simple yes/no question, if you misplace your private keys, do you "own" Bitcoin, philosophically speaking?
I have bought probably a few thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin over the last few years that would now be worth a couple of hundred grand, unfortunately for me though I spent it all on the various bitcoin markets. Still at least it saved me cash versus buying from the streets.
I actually would rather Bitcoin wasn't in this current bubble, a stable currency is much more worthwhile for use as a trading commodity; I suspect the vendors probably know this and convert their BTC into cash as soon as they get it
There are people out there who are like I have billions in bitcoins. What exchange can they walk to and be like, I'd like my billion dollars in USD now.
Last year, I put a couple of hundred dollars. In the spring, I took that amount of money, plus interest, back out. I had over $800 worth left in. It's about $1,800 now. I figure that this is not "real" and I may leave it there and watch it move around. If it drops to $1, that is still free money. It could just as easily increase 10% per day for the next few months. I am watching with risk free curiosity.
Bought approx $80 in BTC last year to pay for a VPN subscription. It cost a bit less than 80 so I had approx $3 in change left over - last year. This year that change is now worth $80.
"it's not backed by any government" -- So you only want to use something to facility trade who's biggest selling point is that there is a group of people who will murder and enslave people if required to help facilitate your trade?... Nice.. and people complain about the electricity usage of bitcoin as the problem..
Where do you think dollars/pounds or euros get their value?
I'm man enough to admit this (Score:2)
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I'm sure it's a bubble. My brother had around 20 bitcoin from several years ago (He ran a miner and put a few thousand into it). He just recently sold all his bitcoin and used the money to put his mortgage into a manageable amount (California insanely priced house), so I'm happy for him and glad he is out of it BEFORE the bubble burst.
Re: I'm man enough to admit this (Score:2, Insightful)
I saw this as a bubble and didn't want to get in, like all the other bubbles.
In the time since, my beliefs have changed. Bubbles represent high risk, high reward. There's a place in my portfolio for that, but I've got to keep balanced. As the high risk investment rises, I've got to sell and buy safer stuff proportionally.
I know it's a scam, but someone makes money off every scam, as long as you keep your exposure to an amount you're willing to lose.
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Here's my problem with astronomically risky investments: if you don't hold them until you've got everything you could ever want out of them, you're severely hurting your chances of getting what you want out of them.
Take bitcoin over the last ~7 years, going from ~$4 to ~$10K. If you invested $4K at the start, then sold half your investment every time it doubled, you'd have about $44K today - quite a snappy ROI: better than 40% annual increase, but hardly life changing and nothing compared to the $10M you'd
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Actually, the ounce was once a $20 piece.And when one ounce of gold was worth $20, it bought you much more than you can get for one ounce of gold now.
It really depends on what you're buying. When gold was $20 per ounce, the average rent was $20 per month and a nice suit cost you $20 per month.
Today, an ounce of gold can still pay the average person's month rent and you can still get a custom tailored suit for an ounce of gold.
During that same time (1934) eggs were 29 cents a dozen. You could only buy 68 dozen eggs then where today even if you bought expensive
free range organic eggs, you could buy close to 400 dozen eggs with that same 1oz gold piece an
Treat it as a game or your peanut butter budget (Score:1)
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Some may have starved after Magic the Gathering's Online Exchange (Mt. Gox) stole all their money.
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Something it seems everyone is overlooking in all this talk about speculating on BTC: It was ostensibly designed to be a currency used similar to other fiat currencies. Except now that everyone is treating it as a commodity, its lost all value as a currency. What sane person has actually used BTC "in exchange for goods or services" in the last 6 months? Nobody.
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Um, I did.
I bought a computer case from a large online retailer for bitcoin with what my PC mined in a month.
It would be worth almost $1K right now. Do I regret making the purchase? No, I thought it was a good idea at the time and hindsight 20/20 is still hindsight.
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40% gains per month for holding onto the currency. What amount of business could you do that would have that ROI?
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Then why would you want to discourage anyone from driving the price up with increased demand?
Re: I'm man enough to admit this (Score:1)
Mine too, but from the stupidity of the humanherd. (Score:1)
Every time I think they cannot possibly become dumber, they do.
Maybe I should stop thinking they cannot possibly become dumber...
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It's that happy place where greed meets ignorance. The stupidity that can arise from this is near infinite. The part that gets on my nerves is the people who go off saying I don't understand. I really do believe they think they're clever, but fact is, they're just lucky. I wish I'd gotten in at lower prices, but at this point is the stupidest point possible to get in to it. Especially with what seems to be an acceleration. I was thinking Wednesday maybe it might be worth picking up a couple hundred wo
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The whole idea that Bitcoin has value is madness.
I owned one coin in 2010 - it was worth about $4.50, a miner gave it to me as payment for software in lieu of $5 cash, also because there was precious little he could do with his coins in 2010 and he just wanted to practice using them. I held it about 3.5 years, during which time it inflated about 50x in value to the $200 neighborhood.... and I sold it.
Now, ~3.5 years later, and another 50x in "value" increase - woulda, coulda, shoulda just bought $4K in coi
Re: I'm man enough to admit this (Score:1)
Is this really that much different from FOREX trading?
Also, I always love the gold standard weenies.. gold is only valuable because weâ(TM)ve agreed it is. There seem to be enough folks agreeing on Bitcoin at the moment...
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Gold are used as a dental material, as contact material, for wires, as interface material, as medical devices (directly and indirectly), for mirrors and as protective layers. Among many other uses.
As the AC below posted the use of gold is vital to the semiconductor industry and electronics.
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"Gold are used ..." #0_o#
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97% of the US money supply exists are numbers in computer networks not even as fiat paper.
bitcoin just jumped that 3% gap, and locked out the ability to supersonic print billions a month
for the bankters club, and attach debt to each dollar printed.
So while both systems are faith based, and both systems do not have physical material value backing them,
some might say bitcoin is the lesser evil due to the lack of debt attached to the creation of each unit.
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A variant of the classic pyramid scheme done in a distributed manner.
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I guess gold is also a distributed pyramid scheme. Higher demand drives higher prices and higher increases demand. If you were one of the first cavemen to invest in gold before all the others started valuing it (i.e. when you could just pick it up off the ground), you'd be super rich today.
BTW I think a scheme requires intent (i.e. a schemer). I think this is just a pyramid with no scheme.
Re: (Score:3)
I'd say about one third of Bitcoin holders are religious zealots. It's a faith-based coin (like fiat), but for whatever reason, Bitcoin has cast a spell to amass a large faithful following, the "hodl"-ers who will not sell no matter what calamity ensues. Every dip tests their faith, and then their convictions get stronger. It's a bit like Stockholm syndrome, or Marquis de Sade's training, or any other enslavement process where you're rewarded after your punishment until you enjoy the punishment itself, n
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is its failing as a currency right now. Who in their right mind over the last 6 months has bought a single thing with BTC? Nobody. The appreciation of BTC is so high nobody is going to spend it. They're merely building a giant pyramid out of nothing.
Re: (Score:2)
The reason not to abstain from using it as a currency (e.g. spending it) is not that the price is going to get higher.
Spending bitcoin even though you think the price will increase is no more crazy than not exchanging all your investments for bitcoin even though you think the price will increase. Lost profit from spending your bitcoins is no different than lost profit from having never bought bitcoins.
I'm sure many people actually do think this way, and this may be their personal (yet irrational) reason fo
BitcoinCash (Score:2)
Don't own any (Score:5, Insightful)
I figured $2000 must be the top. Wrong
I figured $4000 must be the top. Wrong
I figured $6000 must be the top. Wrong
I figured $10000 must be the top. Who knows.
Of course once I buy in, you know that will be as high as they ever go.
Re:Don't own any (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
LOL. Perhaps we should try this again. It's currently back up to $10750. I could sell now and buy in the trough for a nice 10-15% gain!
Re: (Score:3)
I think this is the main reason that bitcoin will never be useful as a alternative to currency. It is to much like gold Krugerrand's or something. Technically, you can use both as money but they have no real fixed value.
At least with a a dollar, or even a shekel, euro, peso, I have some concept of what it is worth. An based on what I know it being worth today, I can reasonably figure out what it will be worth next week, next month, or even next year. You can't do that with bitcoins.
Re: (Score:1)
This is only happening because it's still the very early stages. Once the real money is in, and it's coming, then the price will stabilize. But by then you've priced yourself out of it.
Re:Don't own any (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure I agree.
Bitcoin as such is inherently unsuited to use as currency.
Transferring bitcoin between people can not be done without fees, and it can not be done instantly (well I guess it's done instantly, but you won't know if you're successful for several minutes). Additionally if you want full and complete control over your wallet, you need to store an absurd amount of data, and update it with every transaction done by anyone worldwide.
This means that the only value in Bitcoin is in speculating with it, and speculative commodities tend to have large price swings. Note that my criticisms are specific to bitcoin in this regard, and a different crypto-currency may still make practical sense in the future.
Bitcoin is far more like gold than like cash really. Theoretically you can buy things with either, but in practice neither one is good to use for that purpose.
So yes, I think it will become more stable than it is now price-wise, but I don't see it as ever being used as a real currency in any meaningful way. Additionally there is a huge risk of government action against it (several governments have already banned it's use) which could cause major problems going forward, and there's also always the risk of some cryptographic flaw being discovered that could make every bitcoin worthless overnight.
I have a (very small) amount of bitcoin because I think they're pretty neat, but I think there's still a huge amount of risk here, and I don't think this will ever replace currency.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure I agree.
Bitcoin as such is inherently unsuited to use as currency.
Transferring bitcoin between people can not be done without fees, and it can not be done instantly (well I guess it's done instantly, but you won't know if you're successful for several minutes). Additionally if you want full and complete control over your wallet, you need to store an absurd amount of data, and update it with every transaction done by anyone worldwide.
So, it's not practical for buying a sandwich from Subway, or a bag of nails from Home Depot. For trading between two major corporations, or buying drugs from Mexico, or large international deals, it's probably ideal. The transaction fee is probably minimal compared to the purchases being made, and might actually help keep costs down and fit through certain tax loop-holes.
Bitcoin could find itself a medium for large-value currency exchanges but not for Bob and Sue to spend at Walmart.
Re: (Score:2)
I try not to invest in anything I don't understand. I mean, I have some tenuous grasp of mathematical transforms and enough cryptography to be aware of its dangers, but yeah, the financial part of bitcoin seems like an awful lot of speculation from other people who probably don't understand it. Apparently the main thing that makes bitcoin valuable is its scarcity, which may be mathematically guaranteed... right up until the time that it isn't. I also don't like investing in money to make money out of mon
Re: (Score:1)
There are a good set of online stores that accept bitcoin. NewEgg and Overstock are likely the biggest.
Re: (Score:3)
I also don't like investing in money to make money out of money, especially when the moneymakers are the ones writing the rules of the game.
Oh I like that. I'm filing the serial numbers off that and adding it my list of favorite quotes.
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Sure, with a 1985 dollar I could buy a gallon of gas, then with a 1999 dollar I could buy three quarts of gas, then with a 2007 dollar I could buy a quart of gas, then with a 2011 dollar I could buy a half gallon of gas... very stable the dollar is. At least non-energy goods are more predictable, they almost always go up in price.
Re: (Score:3)
The price of gas is a good example. Looking back over charts I can see that the price of gas for the past 10 years has been between $2.00 and $3.50. Depending on what chart I'm looking at. Based on that example I can reasonably expect the price of gallon of gas to be around this price this time next year.
Now this is just an expectation, it doesn't mean it will be. There could be any number of economic reasons that could push the price of a gallon of gas outside that range. But with that being said ba
Re: (Score:2)
If you factor in all the oil wars in the middle east and Africa then the "real" cost of oil is a "bit" higher.
Say a few trillion in taxpayer money, thou some might say a war would be manufactured somewhere
else to continue the Mil-Indust complex feeding frenzy.
My favorite single item being the F-35 at $2 trillion that doesn't work.
Re: (Score:2)
Bitcoin is not a stable store of value (at least not yet). It *was* a good medium of exchange before the transaction fees jumped through the roof. Back when it was a good medium of exchange, it didn't really matter what the price was. If you wanted to buy something, you would just use less bitcoins if the value of bitcoin increased and more if it dropped.
I don't need to know what pesos will be worth in a year from now to buy things in pesos. The bank or whatever just does a conversion between currencies
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The Great Bitcoin "Bubble"
http://mikemiller.net/bitcoin_... [mikemiller.net]
Re: (Score:2)
Well, buy/sell prices are a range, not a single number, so you can be sure there are complications if you actually want to sell some Bitcoin for the $10,000.
Has anyone actually cashed out their gains with Bitcoin is what I want to know. Executed a big sale to someone who isn't also trading Bitcoin. The dizzying upward trend tells me probably no. I'll wait until there are actual corrections in this market before I believe it's real. A market without corrections is too good to be true.
Re: Don't own any (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I think that what you did is the way to go. I rook out all the value that I had originally put in, plus a rough guess of interest as well.
Right now, I have a nice sum left and am watching it to see what happens left. If it bursts, I will have lost nothing except a free experiment
Do I think it will burst any time soon? No. If it carries on either growing or levelling off, for a year or two, I will be highly amused at all the experts who have been prophecying its imminent destruction. It reminds me of th
Re: Don't own any (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Meh, I sold out a couple years ago, no regrets. Still made a tidy margin.
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Should you really kick yourself? The way I see it, buying bitcoin for currency speculation purposes is basically just gambling. You can only make money in proportion to how much you're willing to gamble on the future price of bitcoin.
I think this is basically just Tulipmania On Computers, and at some point governments around the world will grow intolerant of cryptocurrency's only notable point of usefulness, criminal finance, and outlaw the exchange of cryptocurrencies, at least without proper documentation
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You're thinking semi-linearly, the world of investments is an exponential game.
No (Score:2)
Yup (Score:2)
Recently, my mom heard about it on the radio, and asked me to research it for her. Until then, I'd thought it died in the MtGox era. I thought it looked interesting, and put in a small amount. With my usual flawless timing, it went down right after. Then it went back up! Then mom decided she'd try it, so I put some in for her. Between it being an ATH (All time high) and the fact that she was invested, I expected a dip, but it kept going up!!
Realistically, I still think it will dip sometime, but I'm ho
I expect Murphy's Law to screw me when I buy (Score:2)
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If you're looking at it as an investment and concerned with whether it goes "up" or "down" in terms of dollars, then you don't understand the point of bitcoin.
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I tell people that cryptocurrencies are not at all investment vehicles all the time. As you're alluding, the purpose of bitcoin is pseudonymity, allowing somewhat-anonymous ~monetary transactions between parties. This is hard to facilitate when the value of the underlying ~currency is not terribly stable; a buyer could convert dollars to bitcoins, send them to a seller, and then the seller could be screwed by plummeting BTC values when trying to exchange them into another currency.
To that end, it's not
Re: (Score:1)
That is not what I'm alluding to.
I buy bitcoin to get away from inflationary fiat currencies. I buy it because it's a great store of value -- not because of what it's worth in terms of dollars (because who cares) but bitcoin is actually deflationary because the number that will ever exist is hard-capped at 21 million and an estimated 2-3 million are permanently lost.
I don't buy things with bitcoin. I HODL. Bitcoin is my savings.
Way down the road, when the technology is mature, is when I'll start using it
Re:I expect Murphy's Law to screw me when I buy (Score:5, Insightful)
not because of what it's worth in terms of dollars (because who cares) but bitcoin is actually deflationary because the number that will ever exist is hard-capped at 21 million and an estimated 2-3 million are permanently lost.
Actually, that is a major problem with bitcoins. Not there is a limit to how many that can be made but the "permanently" lost thing. Once the limit is mined out, with no way to recover lost coins, the ones that will remain will get more scarce. This will drive the cost of the remaining ones up. So its only a "deflationary" currency, as you put it, because new ones can still be added. Once that is done, it will become a inflationary currency just like almost everything else.
Also, someone pointed out to me once that bitcoin is also like gold in this manner. There is only so much gold int the world, which isnt' true. What is true is there is only so much gold that is available by current technological ability. There is actually no limit on the amount of gold. But anyway gold coin isn't like a bitcoin. If a gold coin is lost it isn't destroyed. It can be found again. This isn't true with a bitcoin. Once its lost its gone.
And as someone else pointed out gold has uses other than currency. Better uses.
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You have inflation/deflation backwards [investopedia.com]. Bitcoin is a deflationary currency and when you can no longer mine new ones, will become even more deflationary over time from list coins, not inflationary.
"Stop payment" on lost coins (Score:2)
If a gold coin is lost it isn't destroyed. It can be found again. This isn't true with a bitcoin. Once its lost its gone.
If I pay by check, and the recipient of the check loses it, I can stop payment on that particular check and write another.
Similarly, would you agree, there is a great need to add this feature to cryptocurrencies? People should be able to "stop payment" on a lost coin, and replace it with another coin, at a cost that's as minimal as writing out another check to replace a lost check.
Seems to me, that would overcome the largest objection people have to cryptocurrencies.
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Also, someone pointed out to me once that bitcoin is also like gold in this manner. There is only so much gold int the world, which isn't' true. What is true is there is only so much gold that is available by current technological ability. There is actually no limit on the amount of gold.
Once the alchemists get that sorted out, you mean? Actual, practical nuclear transmutation is a long long way off; for all intents and purposes, gold is finite. Or until we start mining asteroids, if they have any gold. That's also a long way off.
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Actual, practical nuclear transmutation is a long long way off; for all intents and purposes, gold is finite.
Well when I posted my OP is was thinking of extracting gold from sea water and asteroid mining. I was specifically thinking of 433 Eros that is supposed to contain more gold than ever has been mined on Earth.
https://news.ycombinator.com/i... [ycombinator.com]
There are already plans in place to start mining it and bringing it back to Earth. Personally, I think the gold would have better use if we used it in space rather than hording like some dragon on Earth.
As for nuclear transmutation of elements, yeah it can be d
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We're still a long way out from the technology to mine asteroids, though I suppose it's inevitable someday we will. It actually irks me just a little when I see something on the market like Goldschlager, what a waste of a fantastic metal: a superior conductor of electricity, resistant to rust, corrosion, or tarnish, almost infinitely malleable, and then there it's historic, symbolic value.. and it's wasted in some hooch so college kids can feel rich while getting drunk. Every flake has to add up. Sure,
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Asteroid mining has been only 50 years away for the last 50 years. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.
When it comes to your views on gold being wasted we not only reading the same book, but the same page and verse. When I see it in a historical artifact I value the artifact more for its history than its gold content. To me it would be just as valuable made of copper or even clay. If we where valuing it only on its gold content I would see the gold far more valuable being used as solar sails or s
Re: (Score:2)
Actually in LENR they are finding gold in the nuclear ash so to speak.
http://e-catworld.com/2017/08/... [e-catworld.com]
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Re: (Score:1)
I'm a fan of gold, too....or used to be (not buying any more now). But I strongly trust the bitcoin tech; it's proven itself over the past 8-9 years IMO. I'm all in.
Re: (Score:2)
Some might say bitcoin and wall street are both a numbers racket.
They go up and down for arbitrary reasons, sometimes manipulated by large players.
The numbers racket used to be illegal, now its policy, the irony is rich.
I wish I had listened to Slashdot back in 2011 (Score:4, Funny)
Damn you naysayers who said it would never amount to anything!
Re: (Score:2)
Yup, lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The Great Bitcoin "Bubble" (Score:1)
http://mikemiller.net/bitcoin_... [mikemiller.net]
Sorry not. (Score:4, Funny)
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Never (Score:2)
Re: Never (Score:1)
Except the drug dealers actually deliver.
There's plenty of dark web sites that beg for bitcoins so you can get access to some secret part of the site. But it doesn't exist, you pay and get no response whatsoever.
Or there's sites selling hitman services but it's just a kid taking your coin and LOLing at you.
But the drug guys? They most likely will deliver, many are fakes no doubt, but "legit" online drug dealers are very real.
Own, sorta (Score:2)
No, because I can't justify the price. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't explain Bitcoin's price except as a bubble.
There are better cryptocurrencies (faster transaction times, better anonymity).
There are better currencies (more stable store of value, quicker transaction times, better acceptance, etc).
I consider it similar to Tesla - sure it has a high price now, but a closer look makes the price appear to be inflated.
Sure I'd wish I bought some when the price was under a buck. I also wish I bought the winning lottery ticket. Doesn't mean I'm going to rush out and buy lottery tickets or bitcoin now.
Is Bitcoin a bigger bubble than market cap? (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, at least you [dasunt] mentioned "bubble", though if I ever got a mod point, I'd still say your mention was short of "insightful". Not intended to imply the moderation has improved because you haven't been modded that way (yet).
The value of Bitcoin is a matter of opinion, just like stock price. Essentially it is a claim that knowing a certain string of digits has some value. On its face, that is an insane claim and the only basis I can imagine is your fantasy that someone else will agree with your asse
Re: (Score:3)
The price of Bitcoin is however purely based on how many are currently buying hoping to sell later at a higher price, compared to how many are selling now at the
Re: (Score:2)
So as of now, I consider Bitcoin a huge bubble, since the only incentive to buy a bitcoin, is to speculate that it's value will increase, due to higher interest than supply. For money transfers, my VISA card, SEPA mo
See all the scammers voting over and over? (Score:2)
Trading on fluctuations (Score:2)
Trading on fluctuations is a recipe for loss.
A house can be a good investment if you intend to live in it, or rent it to others. If you just buy just so you can sell for a profit, you are asking for trouble.
Individual stocks can be a good investment if you believe in the company you are investing in, you've done your homework, and believe it will succeed. Those who constantly buy and sell just to ride the waves generally lose money.
If you are a corn farmer, corn futures might be a good investment, as a hedg
Re: (Score:2)
There is a thing called the volatility index, some traders follow it and base their investing off it.
Some have the idea its bad, some have the idea its good, and 3rd set sees any kind of movement they can "hedge"
as potential for "churn" and they make their money off that.
So its all depend on your approach to fleecing the masses.
Bitcoin is hot (Score:2)
...until it's not.
One day, somebody will find a critical flaw that causes the whole house of cards to collapse. Or maybe another cryptocurrency that is somehow "better" will come along, attracting droves of people who sell their bitcoin to get in on the new thing. EVERY currency rises and falls. Bitcoin is not yet tried and tested. It's still a very high risk investment, despite its high current value. I'm certainly not ready to invest my own life savings in bitcoin!
Fees and other stuff (Score:2)
There's this funny thing with Bitcoin at the moment: owning less than 70 000 satoshi (= 0.007 BTC) is like owning nothing due to transactional fees.
Hopefully, scaling will be resolved sooner or later because in the absence of it Bitcoin cannot grow much further and much faster and it cannot really become an alternative currency.
One never knows... (Score:2)
When Bitcoin first came out, I had just started a new job. Normally, I love to play with new things, and normally I would have probably set up and mined it. But not just right then. When I finally did have time, it was no longer new, and I was looking at other things. Damn...
In any case, I had purchased a fraction of a BTC a couple of years ago, just to be able to pay for a couple of things online. For example, I found it appropriate to donate to the Pirate Party using BTC. Last summer, I exchanged what was
Re: One never knows... (Score:2)
Unfortunately we don't know if it's a bubble. We just don't know what people are using bitcoin for, that's by design. So it's impossible to work out what a Bitcoin should be worth.
We all accept a British pound is worth more than an American dollar. It could be the actual value of a Bitcoin is $100 000.
I am sure any financial advisor worth their salt would tell you it's ok to speculate on Bitcoin. But do it with money you can afford to loose.
Missing Poll Option (Score:2)
Although the poll appears to ask a simple yes/no question, if you misplace your private keys, do you "own" Bitcoin, philosophically speaking?
Re: (Score:2)
c. Cowboy Neal is Satoshi Nakamoto
Kinda (Score:1)
I have bought probably a few thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin over the last few years that would now be worth a couple of hundred grand, unfortunately for me though I spent it all on the various bitcoin markets.
Still at least it saved me cash versus buying from the streets.
I actually would rather Bitcoin wasn't in this current bubble, a stable currency is much more worthwhile for use as a trading commodity; I suspect the vendors probably know this and convert their BTC into cash as soon as they get it
Who would exchange it? (Score:1)
There are people out there who are like I have billions in bitcoins. What exchange can they walk to and be like, I'd like my billion dollars in USD now.
I've got a bit of a Bitcoin (Score:2)
Last year, I put a couple of hundred dollars. In the spring, I took that amount of money, plus interest, back out. I had over $800 worth left in. It's about $1,800 now. I figure that this is not "real" and I may leave it there and watch it move around. If it drops to $1, that is still free money. It could just as easily increase 10% per day for the next few months. I am watching with risk free curiosity.
No (Score:2)
Don't own any tulips, either.
Left over change (Score:2)
Bought approx $80 in BTC last year to pay for a VPN subscription. It cost a bit less than 80 so I had approx $3 in change left over - last year.
This year that change is now worth $80.
Re: Question of morality? (Score:1)
Second paragraph of the linked article?
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it's not backed by any government or entity.
"it's not backed by any government" -- So you only want to use something to facility trade who's biggest selling point is that there is a group of people who will murder and enslave people if required to help facilitate your trade?... Nice.. and people complain about the electricity usage of bitcoin as the problem.. Where do you think dollars/pounds or euros get their value?
Re: first? really? me? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
GPU's were used for bitcoin for awhile, but then fell to FPGA's, and then to ASIC's at present.
The Antminer S9 at 14Terahash is the current power vs. hash king.
You can do GPU mining of Ethereum and do well, but it is diminishing in returns daily.
Also it requires a GPU with a large amount of oncard RAM, most are using 8GB vid cards.
Did a bit of research on coin mining recently and roped in a few friends to help,
and that is the combined key takeaways we found.
I am sure there is a fair bit we missed, but those
Re: (Score:2)
The energy lie is a popular one, but a lie none the less.
Geothermal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Solar: ( solar thermal has less industrial waste )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Ocean currents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
http://www.smh.com.au/articles... [smh.com.au]
Jet Stream power: ( 1% would replace all other forms of power on earth )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
ran safe, tested fail safe via freeze plug for 6,000 hours @ ORNL in the 1960