Logitech Aims To Control the Smart Home 115
An anonymous reader writes: Household devices are getting smarter these days: the so-called internet of things is bringing software-controlled thermostats, lighting, and other appliances into the mainstream. Many companies are fighting for a piece of the pie, but Logitech is taking a different approach. They're mostly known for computer peripherals, but they also make multi-function remote controls, and now they're trying to build remotes that will control all of a home's smart devices. "Logitech doesn't want to own the device, it wants to own the app experience. But to do that, it had to build a software overlay and a controller that would convince people to put it in their homes. So it's offering a $100 hub that combines IR, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and RF that will let you use the Logitech Harmony app to control gear that uses those protocols. This means if you have a SmartThings, a Peq or a Lutron hub, the Wi-Fi in the Logitech device will let you control the others' gear from Logitech, which so far seems to have a much nicer interface." They've worked out partnerships with a lot of companies that are big in the home, like Nest, Honeywell, and Philips, all of whom seem to want this extra layer of control for the user.
Good luck (Score:2)
Google, Apple & Microsoft will control (and stagnate) the HA industry by buying up all the innovative little patent holders to try to force people their platform.
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Google, Apple & Microsoft will control (and stagnate) the HA industry by buying up all the innovative little patent holders to try to force people their platform.
Stagnate the flood of annoying IoT devices that we never asked for in the first place?
Where do I buy my sandbags...
Re:Good luck (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Good luck (Score:4, Interesting)
Logitech is just as much a "stagnator" as the bigger guys. I bought a few Squeezeboxes years ago and loved the system, but once Logitech bought out SlimDevices and took over the Squeezeboxes, I knew the days were numbered.
Logitech is the kind of mediocre and great and creating products that are average and could, with minimal effort, have been made great.
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Logitech just doesn't have what it takes to do this. It isn't going to happen for Logitech. Sorry.
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I went shopping for a good Bluetooth mouse the other day, and basically none of their offerings were actually Bluetooth, they wanted one to use their proprietary "up to six devices" USB to wireless thing. Sorry, the convertible tablet that I'm using only has two USB sockets, one for the USB to switch console cable and one for the USB-to-ethernet dongle. I'm not wasting my time with "2.4GHz Wireless" technology when even my six-year-old netbook has integrated Bluetooth.
If Logitech wants to be
Hopefully not like their TV remotes... (Score:5, Informative)
I hope their home offering isn't like the TV remotes, where to get it to work, I had to create an account with them (with demands for a lot of personal info), go through their relatively awkward website to find the televisionI was using, have that downloaded to the device via USB, and then add some configuring after that before the remote could be used as a remote.
Heck with that. If a remote can't offer an interface to locate stuff on the device itself, it should at least not require an Internet connection (the application should handle this, perhaps downloading codes for newer items), and definitely not require registration on a website to be used.
Re:Hopefully not like their TV remotes... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you can find another remote that you can buy today and know you'll be able to program it for your next set of not yet on the market devices, and the set after that, etc does IR and RF, and can mix and match device buttons and functions without switching button profiles, and still does let you program custom functions like a 3D button, subtitle button, VIA button, DVR button, TV Input, Setup, Menu, etc, etc, etc. And actually manages to provide a better interface at a reasonable price point. I'd love to know.
But thus far, the logitech harmony series is the only thing I've found that actually gets that job done at all and therefore is the best by default.
Re:Hopefully not like their TV remotes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Then they need to add a button that lets me download the needed device definitions when needed but let me configure the remote OFFLINE! I have a Harmony that I abandoned precisely because their web interface is slow, kludgy and reveals information that I do not want people outside my home to know.
If Logitech thinks that I am going to export even more information on the devices I use & what I am doing with them so that they can sell it to others, they have another thing coming.
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And everyone already knows about your baked bread pr0n fetish anyhow.
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Thanks for the link to concordance, I might start using the harmony again.
My problem with a system that I might use to program household devices like lights, temperature etc, is that if the programmation is not private, it could be used to determine whether or not anyone is home. I do NOT trust Logitech with that level of information...
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That internet connection requirement gets you the largest database of remote control presets out there and more importantly everything added in the future. It also expands the database as YOU program custom buttons and functions.
If you can find another remote that you can buy today and know you'll be able to program it for your next set of not yet on the market devices, and the set after that, etc does IR and RF, and can mix and match device buttons and functions without switching button profiles, and still does let you program custom functions like a 3D button, subtitle button, VIA button, DVR button, TV Input, Setup, Menu, etc, etc, etc. And actually manages to provide a better interface at a reasonable price point. I'd love to know.
But thus far, the logitech harmony series is the only thing I've found that actually gets that job done at all and therefore is the best by default.
Agreed. I'd prefer the option for an offline interface, but their remotes are undeniably the best out there.
My only complaint is how newer models of devices at the same price point now support FEWER devices/activities than the older remotes. Memory only gets cheaper over time, and limiting the number of devices per remote is just a greedy way of forcing users to buy more remotes. (I have an older Harmony 520 that supports 12 devices, whereas the newer Harmony's in the same price range only support 8). /r
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"But thus far, the logitech harmony series is the only thing I've found that actually gets that job done at all and therefore is the best by default."
Try the real stuff. Control 4, Crestron and AMX all blow the harmony remote out of the water so badly it is not funny. Hell even the URC programmable remotes make a harmony look like a joke.
Control 4, Crestron and AMX (Score:2)
Don't appear to make tv/home theater remotes.
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Funny my Chinese BIG Button remote works with any device in my house and I had to dig out my old copy of Windows XP since the Logitech remove couldn't be updated with Linux.
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For home automation, if it is an over internet remote access type control, an account setup is often needed just for IP address resolution and to simplify the process of device recognition, as the common customer isn't going to mess with setting up a DNS service. If it is only LAN based, then I agree, accounts bite.
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Yep.
The last thing you need is all this shit hooked up to some site on the internet. If they were smart, they would deliberately design it so it can't get to the internet. Because you know some dickhead will break in and wreak havoc and then claim they were just trying to expose weak security or some other bullshit like that.
One ring to rule them all? (Score:2)
So...when this device gets hacked, does my entire home get pwned ?
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Yes, but why the hell would modern hackers(who are after money, rather than bragging rights) give a shit about your air conditioner?
They wouldn't. Your email account is still the better thing to hack out of your device.
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I think they'd be more interested in the remote-controlled door locks. A guy whose house is wired for automation probably has some stuff that's *really* worth stealing.
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Not me. I've just started wiring my house using the Z-wave tech. I've got an old heavy plasma television, and that's about it as far as easily fungible assets are concerned. Anyone talented enough to start hacking the home automation stuff is clever enough to go after things which are less likely to get you caught with a truck full of stolen goods.
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They'd rather jack up your utility bill. The utilities cranking up your AC would require them to invest in the network to support said cranking. They'll give you a 'smart' meter that counts kWh's with a fork.
Never underestimate a bored teenager (Score:2)
Yes, but why the hell would modern hackers(who are after money, rather than bragging rights) give a shit about your air conditioner?
There is plenty of malware out there that has no purpose other than causing problems for others. Some @$$hole amusing themselves. There are WAY too many smart bored young hackers with a chip on their shoulder. Someone is going to cause problems just because they can.
Plus if someone really wanted to cause problems they could turn EVERYONES air conditioner up all at the same time on the same day to try to overload the system.
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More and more of the new appliances these day (especially air conditioners) are able to be remotely controlled / throttled by the utility to prevent overloads.
The question is by who? If the power company isn't careful and routes those controls over a public network that they do not fully control then all bets are off regarding who controls the system.
By the time these new smart systems become deployed on a large scale i expect most appliances will have this ability.
I'm thinking you haven't worked too closely with a power company lately. The grid is positively archaic and certainly doesn't have the fine grained control you seem to think it does. The power company around me actively resists investing in upgrading their service faster than a pace that you could describe as glac
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They don't care about one air conditioner, but when they can write a script that screws with thousands of them at once then it's fun.
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No, but you are required to start printing out advertisements form online and mailing them to your neighbors.
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express train to bankrupt (Score:1)
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I think for most people this sort of thing doesn't make sense, but there are a few places where it does:
*) Security. If you're paranoid about break-ins, being able to monitor your home remotely can bring some peace of mind.
*) Stalking your family. The same security features will sell to anyone that wants to know what their family is doing when they're away. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; think of baby monitors and such.
*) Remote management. If you have a property like a vacation home or are just aw
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I have a home that has light switches in bad locations. The construction does not make it easy to rewire, so I'm using the home automation equipment to create 'virtual' light switches in the locations where I want them without having to have the 'switch' on the same circuit as the light.
As one example, the previous owner split one bedroom into two, but left the single switch (which now controls both rooms). I can install the HA outlets in the rooms, and thus achieve independent outlet switching without ha
One day, someone will explain it to me. (Score:5, Interesting)
I still don't understand which problem these smart devices would solve for me. It's a light switch. It's on when I want the lights on. It's off when I flick it. The thermostat requires my attention four times per year, when the season changes -- and software doesn't help because the floor registers need to be adjusted manually, and it's still no more than 5 minutes of "effort" per year. I sure as hell ain't letting software turn on my oven, and I'm not letting water nor fire run when I'm not home -- because I've read my house insurance policy; can you say "negligent behaviour"? And again, none of this was difficult to begin with. How about solving a problem that I have, instead of trying to convince me that I have a problem?
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What could possibly go wrong with that?
You really think having an external entity using a (possibly insecure) network connection to unlock your doors isn't something which will be very attractive?
Figure out who has this technology, and then exploit the hell out of it.
I'm imagining someone waiting for you to leave for work, driving up to your house, disabling your alarm, and unlocking your doors. And then tidying up after themselves, reset
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There are simple things that can be done to significantly limit the intrusion you described. First thing, you don't need to have it operable all the time. Second, various authentication possibilities are out there. Third, not having an integral alarm.
But most of all, if the product and implementation have security flaws that have been expl
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I rank that statement as about as intelligent as "if the food is contaminated, don't eat it". It's trite, ignores the problem, and acts like somehow consumers would actually know this.
The reality is, by the time it's known to have happened, and they actually tell people about it, it's too damned late.
Given the terrible approach most of these companies have to security, the fact that they hide the
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But see, that's just the thing. It was already automated -- you weren't lighting the lanterns, you were flipping a switch. Now you're clicking a button or touching a screen. I tend to flip light switches as I enter and exit rooms. Software automating it would either require motion detectors, light sensors, and psychic powers. Sure you could do it, but it's not convenient to install, and it's not free to purchase. It also didn't get carried to my house by storks and pixies. So it starts off very much n
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So, basically, when you're too stupid to know how to leave your own house, for whatever reason, but damned lucky enough to be reminded later, and anti-social enough to not be neighbourly with any of your neighbours.
In my world, that's a call to the neighbours, who are already responsible for my house when I'm gone.
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"on occasion" I do stupid things. Consistently I do smart things that compensate for the stupid things -- like having a neighbour check on my house daily when I'm away. If you want to pay a dozen businesses to do a tenth of what a neighbour can do in 2 minutes, go ahead. I don't.
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I think you've missed the earlier items in the sequence. The neighbour was the last item. First you need to be reminded that you left the stove on. Or you need to actively check. And with dozens of things to actively check, you're either a paranoid nut job checking everything every hour, or you check once, thoroughly, before you leave the house.
And if you don't have any friends who can check on your house while you're away, the nI refer you, again, to your homeowners insurance policy -- which probably d
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"and I'm not letting water nor fire run when I'm not home "
I do as well as million of home owners do. Fire is in my furnace and it's running right now with me not home. And my sprinkler system was running at 8am a full hour after I had left for work. Many times I will start a load of laundry on my way out of the house and let that run, million of people do this.
Dude, get over your paranoia.
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I didn't say anything about paranoia. I said "read your homeowners insurance policy". We're not talking about the furnace, obviously. Sprinklers are somewhat borderline, because they are outside. The rest is just a poor decision on your part -- the oven particularly so.
Careful generalizing your own needs (Score:2)
I still don't understand which problem these smart devices would solve for me. It's a light switch. It's on when I want the lights on. It's off when I flick it.
There are plenty of use cases though they may or may not apply to you. I have controls on certain lights in my house because I forget to turn them off. It's also nice to be able to control multiple lights at the same time for specific purposes. If I'm setting up to watch a movie it's nice to not have to hit several switches, dim the lights, turn on a bunch of devices, etc. Instead of me wandering through the house turning stuff off at night, I can simply push one button and set everything. Same with wh
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That falls into the category of saving a maximum of $2 per day in electricity, with huge and overwhelming consequenses that few people know how to see.
Hard wood floors change shape with even slight temperature changes -- because humidity is drastically affected, especially at floor level.
Fruit on the counter rots that much faster. Bread goes mouldy quicker.
I don't know what it does to the paint on your walls, but I do know that window seals degrade faster.
Think of everything that museums and art galleries
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I live in neither of those zones. Like I said, it only applies to 25% of my year. So would you like me to ask again? How about solving a problem that I have, instead of trying to convince me that I have a problem?
It's not pretentious to ask for help with my situation. I'm not asking for help with yours.
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If you use a smart thermostat, your power company will make more money, you'll spend more money on other things, your pets will be uncomfortable, and your life will be just a little bit worse. So why would you use one?
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I've never understood why people change their indoor temperature settings based on outside temperature. Sure it's nice to come into a cool house in the summer but after a few minutes it's just cold. The indoor temperature should be constant year round.
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My HVAC had to be manually switched from heating mode to cooling mode, but otherwise, the whole point of a thermostat is to keep the temp the same.
Of course, I say this from a city that's currently 69 F, but since the office AC is running I have a space heater going. Talk about a waste of energy.
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Wish I could mod you up. The sun is indeed on a different side of the house entirely. In my case, the rest boils down to heating vs. cooling. That means different directions of air flow, which means different floor registers are in open.
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You'd save 5-30% on your heating+cooling bill if you had a smart thermostat that detected+learnt when you would be away and didn't bother during those times.
(You said you adjusted the thermostat four times a year, i.e. not on days when you're just out late, or your family takes a weekend trip away, ...)
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That'd be 5%, and that'd be during 4 months only. I'm in a 3'000 squeet house, paying ~$150 per month. You just saved me $50! Wait, how much does installation cost?
Tech people like their privacy (Score:5, Interesting)
People that buy technology, particularly the innovators that buy the new products like their privacy. You want to wire my home and be the company that sets the standard?
Make my personal privacy your priority.
Because honestly, that is my primary concern. I don't want to put a camera or microphone in my home and have ANY concern that someone else might look at it.
So you need to convince me that not only can I set up the password, but that I can trust your company not to put in a back door. That means convincing me that you will go BEYOND what I consider to be necessary. I need to believe that you will stand up to the NSA and close the company down if they come knocking on your door with a court order to not even talk about you getting the court order.
Otherwise, I would rather buy the equipment myself and pick the software myself. That way I know the software is not customized to open back doors on the hardware.
Because I am perfectly willing to give up the functionality you so loudly proclaim is helpful if I can't trust you.
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Adding to your insightful commentary, I do NOT want anyone to access the programming I have setup on my devices because I do not want anyone with possibly malevolent intentions being able to guess when I am home/on vacation.
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Adding to your insightful commentary, I do NOT want anyone to access the programming I have setup on my devices because I do not want anyone with possibly malevolent intentions being able to guess when I am home/on vacation.
Huh? How would accessing the programming tell when you were on vacation? The program/configuration that controls your stuff is stored on the device itself, not stored/run in the cloud. The only information stored in the cloud is how your remote/system is configured, not its state. Once you configure the device, if you're exceedingly paranoid, you can always firewall it off from the outside world, and it will continue to work.
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You are basically asking them to lie to you in order to convince you of something that can't possibly be true.
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Your cynicism reflects poorly on yourself, not on my hope for a better world.
Truecrypt is the perfect example proving you wrong. It is fairly obvious that the NSA came to them with a court order not to talk about the court order. They choose to close down as opposed to following that order.
If Truecrypt could do it, then other foundations can do it. In fact, so can a company.
The fact that you wallow in the filth of today's soc
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Home owner (Score:5, Funny)
Stupid luxuries? (Score:3)
This issue keeps being pushed from time to time, but I am not at all convinced that there really is a good justification. It's not that I'm a luddite - or, I hope that I'm not - but introducing technology that doesn't solve a problem is idiotic - like eating oysters despite disliking them, simply because it is a luxury. I can see the use of being able to find free parking spaces in real time - that would be very useful - or having cheap, networked sensors measuring things like temperature, wind speed etc. But other things I have heard of - like being able to check what's in your fridge over your smartphone - that just solves problems that we don't have.
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The problem is that we don't have a uniform way to identify people across multiple systems and interfaces. I have my house and car keys, I have my logins and PINs, I have my banking cards... There is absolutely no need for such redundancy. There is no good reason why a device that is my car key couldn't also unlock my house, office, or my workstation.
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Really, you've never gone grocery shopping and can't remember how many eggs you have left or how much milk you have left?
These are real problems. Now they're fairly minor and certainly not worth the problem of installing or setting up a system. None of the solutions out there solve it in a reasonable way, but let's not pretend it is not a valid problem.
I for one would love to be able to have a fridge that somehow automatically knew exactly what and how much was stored in it that I could access over my smart
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The only reason I could see it being truly useful is if the fridge knew I was low on milk, and watched the sales prices at the stores s
LOL ... no thanks ... (Score:2)
So, the intent here is that I'm going to install a bunch of devices with dubious security (and which likely provide my information for marketing/analytic purposes), to do tasks I can already do now, and have the whole thing controlled by a single source using protocols which themselves have dubious security, and which have the potential to either damage the stuff in my house or cost me money?
Have I got this right?
Because, really, nothing about this scenario sounds appealing to me. It just seems like techno
Cloud based? No Thanks! (Score:2)
Only a fool would be OK with cloud based control and automation. If all the processing and control is not done on the local LAN then the product is 100% crap.
And yes I am calling most of this consumer "smart home" products utter crap.
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Only a fool would be OK with cloud based control and automation. If all the processing and control is not done on the local LAN then the product is 100% crap.
The programming of the system is cloud based. The communications between the remote, the base, and your device occurs locally. The only ongoing cloud stuff comes in if you want to be able to use the app on your smartphone to control certain devices while you're away. If you don't want this functionality, nothing stopping you from firewalling off the base so that it can't communicate with the outside word.
Enough with the proprietary hardware (Score:1)
I started a project, a game engine built for controlling electronics, that can do the same thing using open source hardware, and for free:
Screenshots from the current Alpha: http://imgur.com/a/p6Obn [imgur.com]
Website: https://hyperplaneinteractive.... [hyperplane...active.com]
Blog: https://hyperplaneinteractive.... [hyperplane...active.com]
If you log in and go to the Account page, you can download and install Touch Control System (TCS). It has some sample mods to explore, including a screen of light bulbs. The Module Editor is fully functional so you can create new
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We made it that way so you can get future mod updates. There is an Asset store in the works, and you'll get access to any future revisions should you purchase (or be given) a paid mod. We plan to give out free content to early adopters, so it is a good idea to be in there, even if you need to create a new gmail account for it.
You can get the latest version here without logging in anywhere: (shhh don't tell anyone)
https://drive.google.com/file/... [google.com]
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Perfect! Then we can wait 5 years for the first draft, 10 years for the final spec, and end up with requirements that are so complex and redundant that it'll take 3 times the memory available on most "smart" devices to implement. *LOL*
Too late (Score:2)
Not a chance, you crap monsters! (Score:2)
I used to be a big Logitech fan. Not any more.
I had one of their trackballs for close to 10 years. I was happy with it and loved it, so I bought a new one when it failed. The new one died in 9 months.
So I bought one of their mice, 'cause I've always had good luck with them. It died in 6 months.
Logitech makes absolute CRAP nowadays. There is no way in hell I'd trust them to keep my house working
Perfect long-term provider for key infrastructure (Score:1)
I can highly recommend Logitech for home infrastructure. I decide to invest in the Logitech Squeezebox line with two SB Touch, four SB Radios, and even a Boom sitting around somewhere. Rather than going with something with short shelf life, it is good to be on a platform from a known long-term player, with a long-term commitment for maintaining and further developing that platform. Their server software is rather well hidden on the internet, but hey ... if something is not worth spending lots of time chasin