Lynn Conway, Leading Computer Scientist and Transgender Pioneer, Dies At 85 (latimes.com) 155
Lynn Conway, a pioneering computer scientist who made significant contributions to VLSI design and microelectronics, and a prominent advocate for transgender rights, died Sunday from a heart condition. She was 85. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Michael Hiltzik remembers Conway in a column for the Los Angeles Times: As I recounted in 2020, I first met Conway when I was working on my 1999 book about Xerox PARC, Dealers of Lightning, for which she was a uniquely valuable source. In 2000, when she decided to come out as transgender, she allowed me to chronicle her life in a cover story for the Los Angeles Times Magazine titled "Through the Gender Labyrinth." That article traced her journey from childhood as a male in New York's strait-laced Westchester County to her decision to transition. Years of emotional and psychological turmoil followed, even as he excelled in academic studies. [Conway earned bachelor's and master's degrees in electrical engineering from Columbia University in 1961, quickly joining a team at IBM to design the world's fastest supercomputer. Despite personal success, she faced significant emotional turmoil, leading to her decision to transition in 1968. Initially supportive, IBM ultimately fired Conway due to their inability to reconcile her transition with the company's conservative image.]
The family went on welfare for three months. Conway's wife barred her from contact with her daughters. She would not see them again for 14 years. Beyond the financial implications, the stigma of banishment from one of the world's most respected corporations felt like an excommunication. She sought jobs in the burgeoning electrical engineering community around Stanford, working her way up through start-ups, and in 1973 she was invited to join Xerox's brand new Palo Alto Research Center, or PARC. In partnership with Caltech engineering professor Carver Mead, Conway established the design rules for the new technology of "very large-scale integrated circuits" (or, in computer shorthand, VLSI). The pair laid down the rules in a 1979 textbook that a generation of computer and engineering students knew as "Mead-Conway."
VLSI fostered a revolution in computer microprocessor design that included the Pentium chip, which would power millions of PCs. Conway spread the VLSI gospel by creating a system in which students taking courses at MIT and other technical institutions could get their sample designs rendered in silicon. Conway's life journey gave her a unique perspective on the internal dynamics of Xerox's unique lab, which would invent the personal computer, the laser printer, Ethernet, and other innovations that have become fully integrated into our daily lives. She could see it from the vantage point of an insider, thanks to her experience working on IBM's supercomputer, and an outsider, thanks to her personal history.
After PARC, she was recruited to head a supercomputer program at the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA -- sailing through her FBI background check so easily that she became convinced that the Pentagon must have already encountered transgender people in its workforce. A figure of undisputed authority in some of the most abstruse corners of computing, Conway was elected to the National Academy of Engineering in 1989. She joined the University of Michigan as a professor and associate dean in the College of Engineering. In 2002 she married a fellow engineer, Charles Rogers, and with him lived active life -- with a shared passion for white-water canoeing, motocross racing and other adventures -- on a 24-acre homestead not far from Ann Arbor, Mich. In 2020, Conway received a formal apology from IBM for firing her 52 years earlier. Diane Gherson, an IBM senior vice president, told her, "Thanks to your courage, your example, and all the people who followed in your footsteps, as a society we are now in a better place.... But that doesn't help you, Lynn, probably our very first employee to come out. And for that, we deeply regret what you went through -- and know I speak for all of us."
The family went on welfare for three months. Conway's wife barred her from contact with her daughters. She would not see them again for 14 years. Beyond the financial implications, the stigma of banishment from one of the world's most respected corporations felt like an excommunication. She sought jobs in the burgeoning electrical engineering community around Stanford, working her way up through start-ups, and in 1973 she was invited to join Xerox's brand new Palo Alto Research Center, or PARC. In partnership with Caltech engineering professor Carver Mead, Conway established the design rules for the new technology of "very large-scale integrated circuits" (or, in computer shorthand, VLSI). The pair laid down the rules in a 1979 textbook that a generation of computer and engineering students knew as "Mead-Conway."
VLSI fostered a revolution in computer microprocessor design that included the Pentium chip, which would power millions of PCs. Conway spread the VLSI gospel by creating a system in which students taking courses at MIT and other technical institutions could get their sample designs rendered in silicon. Conway's life journey gave her a unique perspective on the internal dynamics of Xerox's unique lab, which would invent the personal computer, the laser printer, Ethernet, and other innovations that have become fully integrated into our daily lives. She could see it from the vantage point of an insider, thanks to her experience working on IBM's supercomputer, and an outsider, thanks to her personal history.
After PARC, she was recruited to head a supercomputer program at the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA -- sailing through her FBI background check so easily that she became convinced that the Pentagon must have already encountered transgender people in its workforce. A figure of undisputed authority in some of the most abstruse corners of computing, Conway was elected to the National Academy of Engineering in 1989. She joined the University of Michigan as a professor and associate dean in the College of Engineering. In 2002 she married a fellow engineer, Charles Rogers, and with him lived active life -- with a shared passion for white-water canoeing, motocross racing and other adventures -- on a 24-acre homestead not far from Ann Arbor, Mich. In 2020, Conway received a formal apology from IBM for firing her 52 years earlier. Diane Gherson, an IBM senior vice president, told her, "Thanks to your courage, your example, and all the people who followed in your footsteps, as a society we are now in a better place.... But that doesn't help you, Lynn, probably our very first employee to come out. And for that, we deeply regret what you went through -- and know I speak for all of us."
Praising achievements (Score:5, Insightful)
Lynn Conway has certainly participated in and contributed to the birth of many technologies that serve all or most of us as IT professionals.
I wasn't aware of her gender history, but I'm actually wondering why it's here. It's rather off-topic here on SlashDot when her achievements as an engineer are so remarkable.
Re: Praising achievements (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Praising achievements (Score:3, Insightful)
It would be like talking about Alan Turing without mentioning the shabby treatment he received from the British governmen
Here is the problem: too many times we are talking about personalities instead of "stuff that matters"
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too many times we are talking about personalities instead of "stuff that matters"
People matter.
People's feelings matter.
People's lives matter.
You don't seem to believe any of those things.
I'm surprised you're not off somewhere talking to a virtual girlfriend that always tells you what you want to hear.
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I'm actually wondering why it's here. It's rather off-topic here on SlashDot when her achievements as an engineer are so remarkable.
She's here because of her achievements in computer science which make her at least an honorary nerd and because she's just died which makes her news. This is the most important passage in her obituary and probably the bit she'd like everyone to read. This is news for nerds and reminds us nerds have personal lives too, which sometimes intersect with their professional lives.
Re:Praising achievements (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think you understood the parent's post. He wasn't questioning why the news of her passing was here, but rather why her views on sexuality are of any relevance on a Slashdot story. Today is the first I've heard of those, yet I'm familiar with the rest of what she did. Hence: why mention it in a post that is supposed to celebrate her achievements on a tech site?
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It's a core part of her story as a person, I guess...
Re:Praising achievements (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a core part of her story as a person, I guess...
The article title got me wondering why transgender was mentioned. Her accomplishments in engineering were enough to list her passing. Then I read the summary. "transgender pioneer" referred to her being among the first to champion transgender rights. This was news to me and helps paint her as a real person whose existence goes beyond computers.
Re: Praising achievements (Score:2)
"What defines the person is what other people find most interesting about them
What? The. Fuck!
That, sir, is trash.
What defines the person is what's most important to THEM.
Why do you want to destroy the individual in favor of the crowd?
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Because people are more (hopefully a lot more) than a list of their professional accomplishments. When you die, would you like the whole of your eulogy to be "thegarbz pioneered the TPS report, and was instrumental in ensuring that the new coversheet was included." ?
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I question the gender/sexual orientation mental sanity discussions (or mostly shaming flame-wars) here for a person who has achieved so much incredible feats with her tech expertise. I have so little interest in knowing the intimate details of her special being, even less interest in debating her mental sanity or her legitimacy to self-define as a woman and all the stuff that could relate to trans persons. I consider those topics to be off place here, period.
I also feel it irritating that the LGBTQ+whatever
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This feels so much off-topic here and a so insignificant topic for any average person.
There's a little bit of control freak in all of us. As long as any group doesn't try to limit my freedom I just ignore them, not try to change the world to suit my tastes. This is Lynn's epitaph and it is what it is. If this was a shocking new revelation to everyone you could have a point (a very small narrow minded one.) Whats next burning all the books on the "gay" subjects, I think my state is trying that now.
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Gender and sexual orientation are not good public topics
Bullshit, puritan.
Gender and sexual orientation are real issues which matter.
Claiming we shouldn't discuss them publicly is only trying to hide abuse so that it can continue.
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"why her views on sexuality are of any relevance on a Slashdot story"
Because her technical achievements cannot be separated from the fact that those achievements were rejected on that basis despite their technical validity.
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Sorry to nitpick, but her sexuality wasn't explicitly brought up. Her gender, on the other hand, was.
As for why it's relevant:
1) The history of her struggles with dysphoria and transition are integral to her employment history, hence her career, hence her accomplishments
2) There are quite a lot of trans women in tech, and at least a couple on this site
3) Trans people are the target of a culture war being led by the right, and highlighting the ways in which trans people have contributed to society and the wo
Re:Praising achievements (Score:4, Insightful)
If there is a woman that is being touted as breaking some barriers for women in science and engineering it might be an important detail to know that "she" lived as a man for the first 30 years of "her" life. What might also be important was that this wasn't some matter of "being assigned male at birth" which can happen with people that have ambiguous genitalia but Conway was so clearly male to have fathered two children. Maybe I'm mistaken on the details and the children were adopted, Conway had some birth defect that induced this gender confusion, or there was some other detail I'm missing, but if the first woman that is "breaking gender barriers for women" lived half her life as a male then I'd think any barriers she broke might have to come with an asterisk.
Imagine what might happen if the first woman on the moon was a 50 year old astronaut that lived as a male up until the age of 25 or so, and had been "male enough" to be married to a woman and father a child with her. Then the next several women on the moon were also those that had lived half their lives as males, with a few of them also clearly being "male enough" to father children. Would not it be notable when there is a woman on the moon that was born a woman, and was "woman enough" to have given birth to children naturally? Would that not be as much, if not more, of a "gender barrier" than having been one of the astronauts that consisted of men and people that lived half their lives as men?
Are women pleased to know that a pioneer of women in science and engineering lived as a man until he had a masters degree in electrical engineering and worked at IBM for years as a man? That doesn't sound like someone breaking gender barriers exactly. Half the struggle for a woman would be getting taken seriously enough to get into an engineering program in the 1960s. If the only way for a woman to break that barrier is to live as a man until getting a graduate degree and working as an engineer for years then it doesn't quite carry the same kind of weight. That doesn't sound like the kind of life a stereotypical young woman could, or should, emulate on getting a career in engineering.
So, sure, Conway appears to have been a very talented and ground breaking computer engineer and should be celebrated for such. What Conway is not is someone that broke down barriers for women in science and engineering. After Conway made the transition to being a woman "she" lost her job as an engineer and had to find work as a low level programmer, a kind of job a woman could get in the late 1960s and early 1970s because of women at NASA proving that women make damned good programmers years before. Those women were breaking down gender barriers far more than Conway had.
Conway's life as a man for 30 years is notable because few women were getting an education in science and engineering at the time, and it would be by applying for any such program as a man that meant the application wasn't "lost in the mail" or having been forced out of the program before graduation by misogynist instructors and peers. If Conway did not have this education then we'd not likely have seen Conway do such pioneering work. It would be difficult to ignore that Conway lived as a man for much of his career, leaving that out of an obituary/biography would mean ignoring he fathered children in a previous marriage. His daughters exist, and he fathered them with the woman he had as a wife at the time. Those are just important life details, and certainly a matter of public record.
In case people have not noticed I am struggling with the proper pronouns here. There's no "she is the father of two children" because women are not capable of fathering children by definition. Conway may have lived as a woman for decades but that doesn't erase the fact of being the father to two daughters.
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How much experience of black holes do astrophysicists that study them need to have before they can say something about them and get your approval? Who's nuanced understanding? IMO, your understanding is very un-nuanced. Conway had two sides, he was a brilliant engineer but had a FU "social personality". The latter has nothing with his engineering achievements. Linus Pauling won the Nobel prize in chemistry, but it doesn't make his ideas about vitamins correct.
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Based off of your clumsy language, conflation of terms, sweeping generalizations, and High School level sophistry, it's very clear to me that you're operating off of tropes and caricatures. I dare say the average theoretical physicist has a much better understanding of black holes than you do of trans people. I mean, have you ever actually met a trans person in real life and had a conversation with them? Comparing people like me to a black hole is way beyond the "apples to oranges" metaphor.
But if you would
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How is that possible when they don't have any experience of them at all?
Yes, I have. At least 9 out of 10 are simple attention whores, with weak self confidence, that just do it because it is the latest fad. Everything I read about Conway tells me he was just like that. You seem to think that just because someone is a great engineer (or whatever, could have been a chef), they are great personalities in all other aspects of life too. No one forced him to marry, it has always been quite common with unmarried
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You're kind of rambling, so I'm not quite sure what to respond to, but I'll try my best:
1) I never said Conway had a great personality, nor did I bring up her marriage. But you're using a lot of charged language, like "attention whore", and bouncing around in general. You seem to have a strong reaction to this stuff. Might be worth unpacking with a therapist.
2) Would you care to go into detail with the trans people you've met in real life and conversed with? Were they friends, co-workers, strangers on the s
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Ad hominems are attacks against the individual, which isn't something I did. Questioning experience and understanding of a topic, on the other hand, is totally in bounds.
Re:Praising achievements (Score:5, Insightful)
Why talk about Turing's sexuality?
Conway - who co-invented not just VLSI, but also generalized dynamic instruction handling, used in out-of-order execution - came out when there were massive social penalties for doing so and few dared to do so, suffered greatly for it, losing her family and her promising career at IBM and having to start over. It was only decades later that she was "rediscovered", so to speak (she had been keeping a low profile out of fear of further negative consequences) and became a hero to the transgender community.
It would be nice if we could stop driving off (or in Turing's case, leading to the suicide of) talented people in computer engineering over their personal lives.
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Why talk about Turing's sexuality?
Conway - who co-invented not just VLSI, but also generalized dynamic instruction handling, used in out-of-order execution - came out when there were massive social penalties for doing so and few dared to do so, suffered greatly for it, losing her family and her promising career at IBM and having to start over. It was only decades later that she was "rediscovered", so to speak (she had been keeping a low profile out of fear of further negative consequences) and became a hero to the transgender community.
It would be nice if we could stop driving off (or in Turing's case, leading to the suicide of) talented people in computer engineering over their personal lives.
Why?
Their lives defined them as a person, which influenced what they did, why they did it, how they worked and what they accomplished.
So it's very relevant, plus she (and Turing) ended up breaking a few barriers in society completely unrelated to technology, even though Turing didn't live to see it... So their personal accomplishments are just as important.
Oh... you mean you're offended by it... well that's your problem sunshine.
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Why do they need to talk about their personal lives on their workplace? Please separate work and private life and you won't have any problems with these two spheres "crashing" into each other.
I think it is immoral to have children (adults forcing themselves upon children, without any kind of consent, duh!) but I STFU about that on work because all my colleges have children and would be very upset, and would probably refuse to work with me, if I told them that I think they are children abusers.
These people a
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Lynn Conway has certainly participated in and contributed to the birth of many technologies that serve all or most of us as IT professionals.
I wasn't aware of her gender history, but I'm actually wondering why it's here. It's rather off-topic here on SlashDot when her achievements as an engineer are so remarkable.
You want to erase the person while praising the accomplishments so that you don't have to feel uncomfortable.
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You want to erase the person
You don't erase a person but not talking about the things they aren't known for. Quite the opposite. We are talking about her. Get a grip man.
Re:Praising achievements (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep I read dealers of lightning when it was released. A very long time ago. I don't remember every name in the book but I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single peep about gender identity and I don't think it was because the author wouldn't put it in, Most likely Lynn requested it not be mentioned because it's been such a life-fucking mess for her.
These sorts of personal stories absolutely have value because without them it's very easy to believe that all of computing was built by straight white men and a few indians and asians. Which isn't true.
I'll bet nobody can tell me what black man had the greatest influence on the IBM PC? Good luck using Google to dig that one up. He's still mostly unknown because despite his success and continued success being a black guy in his spot was just a hassle.
Of course back when I bothered wasting braincells getting into big arguments about this stuff I brought him up to many racist white nerds, every single time the path to acceptance started at "diversity hire" and ended at "well yeah I guess I'd like to have a beer with him, one of the good ones I guess"
Just imagine if the conversation at least didn't have to start at "diversity hire". Probably it'd be a big deal to any black nerd. Stuff that matters.
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You know, I was thinking mostly along the same lines. There are a lot of people whose achievements are not really remarkable achievements at all, but are celebrated because of their membership in a Leftist favored group. Who remembers who invented set-associative caches, pipelined execution, or superscalar architecture? Yet VLSI is the logical equivalent of "if one cpu won't do, better make it two..." Apart from membership in an Leftist-favored group, this white male wouldn't be remembered by the publi
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I love how you think "not actively discriminated against as much" is "favored".
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He wasn't oppressed because of his sexuality. He was fired because IBM was selling conformity and he was different.
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I think we're thinking along the same lines when it comes to focusing on one's sexuality rather than one's achievements. From a Leftist perspective, the most important defining characteristics are those which an individual can't choose, such as their race or sexuality proclivities. For everyone else, what matters most is who they are.
It used to be that sexual proclivities were private, but the Left insists on identifying and celebrating anyone struggling with sexual proclivities which can't result in r
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These sorts of personal stories absolutely have value because without them it's very easy to believe that all of computing was built by straight white men and a few indians and asians. Which isn't true.
Which in all practical senses of the word IS true.
Why do all groups but white males need role models to dare to do stuff? Nansen didn't need anyone before him to go to the South Pole, Edmund Hillary didn't need anyone before him to climb Mount Everest. Neil Armstrong did indeed not have a role model before he made his small leap onto the Moon.
Re:Praising achievements (Score:5, Insightful)
Three reasons.
1) The author of the LA Times article chose to make it a major focus. Slashdot is a news aggregator - it doesn't write the source material.
2) It's an important part of Conway's life story. One could have glossed the whole thing over by saying "Lynn worked at IBM for a while, and eventually found her way to Xerox PARC". But that would be such a naive retelling of history that it's downright dishonest. It would be as egregious an omission as an obit of Alan Turing, touting his accomplishments and brilliance, but never mentioning that a) he committed suicide, which is why his story ends rather young, or b) that he was persecuted as a gay man, and his "chemical castration" by the British government was a major contributor to his suicide.
3) This is Pride Month, at a time when the rights gained by the LGBT+ community during Lynn's lifetime, for which she herself was a pioneer and advocate, are under substantial threat. Conway's death is coincidental, but telling about her life provides a timely reminder of the bad old days and the progress that has happened since.
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the fact that so many people here are very loudly uncomfortable with the topic being discussed at all is a sign that it isn't being discussed enough.
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Lynn Conway has certainly participated in and contributed to the birth of many technologies that serve all or most of us as IT professionals.
I wasn't aware of her gender history, but I'm actually wondering why it's here. It's rather off-topic here on SlashDot when her achievements as an engineer are so remarkable.
I'm clueless in many things, but I wasn't even aware that Conway was a woman. To me, Mead and Conway was a book and a set of important technologies.
Sadly, I'm not surprised that most comments on Slashdot concern her personal life and not her technological contributions. Slashdotters (myself included) like to think that we are enlightened and about the fray, but we're not.
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I wasn't aware of her gender history, but I'm actually wondering why it's here. It's rather off-topic here on SlashDot when her achievements as an engineer are so remarkable.
Initially, I had the same response. After some thought, it occurred to me that this is her last statement and she thought transgender issues were important, so while mostly irrelevant to rational people (why hate on others?), it helps to keep awareness that there are still many haters out there and to be kind.
Uncomfortable? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Or it isn't a lesson to anyone. Why should it be? Everyone has a difficult life of its own if you ask. No praising and no bashing either. What she did was of much interest here on SlashDot. The rest of it may be of interest for trans people or trangender people. Otherwise it is just one individual private wierdness and this is it.
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Re:Uncomfortable? (Score:4, Insightful)
My mother doesn't produce any gametes. I guess she's not a woman, huh? Doesn't even have a uterus. I guess she gave up her woman card, from your perspective, when she had a hysterectomy.
Women with bad PCOS - an extremely common (and androgenizing) condition - may produce no gametes at all, or only cysts. No longer women in your world.
If you only care to define people by their breeding potential, you're like two steps off from advocating for the Handmaid's Tale as a socially desirable goal.
And an FYI for you:
Your scrotum is fused labia.
Your glans is a clitoris.
All humans are made of the same stuff, just grown to different shapes/sizes by hormones. And the virilization cascade is not at all "clean". It breaks all over the bloody place. Most changes are not visible. Only 1 in 5500 live births have a visibly ambiguous or reversed phenotype, but up to 1,7% of the population deviates from the normal XX/XY female/male binary in some manner. And here we're only talking about bodies.
But why does it even matter to you? Exactly when did you last demand a gamete sample or karyotyping results before deciding how to refer to someone you've just met? I'm going to take a wild-ass-guess at "never". Yes, gender IS a social phenomenon distinct from sex, even to you, as much as you wish to protest. And, indeed, one that varies by culture, from the various Native American two-spirits to the Indian Hijra to the Fa'afafine of Samoa and thousands upon thousands of other examples. Your insistence on a two-social-gender culture is a specific social tradition, not some universality.
And nice attempt to just throw away intersex or infertile people because they mess up your "producer of small/large gametes" definition (which as mentioned, you don't actually use in your everyday life). Until you start referring to XY women with AIS as "sir", your pronouns to me will be "Inconsistent/Hypocrite".
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I guess she gave up her woman card, from your perspective, when she had a hysterectomy.
I would say that a woman doesn't cease to be a woman after a hysterectomy any more than a man ceases to be a man because of castration. With that logic Lynn Conway died as a man because he was still male in spite of having his reproductive organs removed. Or so I assume since the details of the "transition" weren't so detailed but I believe it safe to assume Conway had his reproductive organs removed in the "transition" that was described.
I recall someone saying that while sex might not be binary it is bi
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but after hearing of people abusing this freedom we allowed to sexually molest others I'm having problems with this.
Wow, you really do believe bullshit, don't you? Anyone who is willing to violate societal norms to sexually molest others is not going to go through the long and difficult process of transition to somehow get a "free card" to do this.
Sure, there have been a few transgender sex offenders. Probably about the same percentage of trans people are sex offenders as cis people. The two are un
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The implication that people transition to make it easier to commit sex offences is total bullshit. It's calumny along the same lines as the "groomer" alt-right dog-whistle.
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Oh, well then, we'd better ban airline pilots from flying planes, because a terrorist might "pretend" to be a pilot to take over the plane.
I have serious doubts that treatment of gender dysphoria is best treated by "transitioning" those suffering from this condition.
Well, those doubts run completely counter to many decades of actual research, as well as best practices promoted by all major medical organizations, but I'm sure you know better than everyone else. Where's your medical degree from? Univer
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I've said it's bimodal, not binary, though I doubt the sentiment is new. Anyway two large modes, possibly many smaller ones.
I don't know why you are so bothered by the existence of people not cleanly associated with one of the two main modes, or why it upsets you acknowledging they exist and even having nouns to that end.
It's impossible to define sex or gender clearly just as it's impossible to define species cleanly or even life. Yeah most of the time it's obvious, but it's foolish to pretend the non obvi
Re:Uncomfortable? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you always obsess over (counting generously) the middle 0.02% of a population
This is exactly the opposite of the truth. Rei was explaining why you shouldn't obsess over a small slice of the population which is much less different from the rest of it than you imagine.
or only when you're saying anatomically stupid things like "your glans is a clitoris"?
The two things, which are different but similar, come from the same root and could develop into either one — and do, depending on hormones which enter the cells and alter their behavior. As such, they are not the same thing, but they are analogues for one another. They are both filled with erectile tissue which fills with blood during arousal. They both are generously supplied with nerves (and nerve endings) and provide sexual pleasure. And also, since you're invoking anatomy, are both called a "glans" — one is the glans penis, while the other is glans clitoridis or clitoral glans. You can't appeal to anatomy while ignoring that every part of the male anatomy has a female counterpart, and vice versa.
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What you mean is he shouldn't appeal to anatomy. Clearly he can: to the dedicated, ignorance is not only no barrier but positively a boost.
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The only people who obsess about trans individuals are republicans. Not a day goes by where they aren’t talking about it. I also don’t go around wondering what genitals a person might have.
Conway's Law was too far ahead of its time (Score:3)
"Any organization that designs a system (broadly defined) will produce a design that mirrors the organization's communication structure."
This is explains why bad software design and horrible corporations are so tightly entwined.
You're confusing her with Melwyn Conway. (Score:3)
He's the one who formulated "Conways Law".
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"Any organization that designs a system (broadly defined) will produce a design that mirrors the organization's communication structure."
This is explains why bad software design and horrible corporations are so tightly entwined.
This knowledge is VERY old. "As above, so below".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
She merely modernized it. :)
An apology after 52 years? (Score:2)
I'd say way too little way too late. That sounds like IBM trying to save face and erase historic corporate guilt, and in no way makes up for the immense damage done.
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I'd say way too little way too late. That sounds like IBM trying to save face and erase historic corporate guilt, and in no way makes up for the immense damage done.
IBM still hasn't apologized for providing IT services to the Nazi Holocaust, whether despite or because their president at the time knew it was occurring and was happy about it.
Another icon has left us (Score:2)
The Mead/Conway book made a huge impression on college student me. Coming so soon after our loss of Gordon Bell, it's making me feel old. All my heroes (of both genders) are passing away.
RIP Dr Conway, and thanks for the ideas.
Are there famous scientist families? (Score:5, Interesting)
Thank god it's 2024 so we get to hear more about the lives of famous people that would have been covered up earlier. It struck me, and I'm not sure if it is just pattern matching or something real, that there seem to be multiple notable Conways and Sutherlands. Maybe they are not even related, maybe these are just common names, or maybe they are related! Just interested if anyone knows. Two of these stellar luminaries passed away in 2020..
P.S. I just answered part of my question, the two Sutherlands are brothers! Thanks Wikipedia.
Lynn Conway - Invented VLSI and Superscalar
John Horton Conway - Discovered Surreal numbers, Conway's Game of Life, quantum Theory of Will. Princeton's past head of mathematics called him a "Magical Genius". Died April 2020 in New Jersey from Covid at 82. https://www.princeton.edu/news... [princeton.edu]
Bert Sutherland - Worked with Lynn Conway, apparently managed SUN and Xerox PARC, and started ARPANet. Died Feb. 2020.
Ivan Edward Sutherland - Father of Computer Graphics, Turing Award for 1988 invention of Sketchpad prototypical GUI. He is 86.
RIP (Score:4, Insightful)
RIP Lynn Conway. Back in the late 80s, we used the famous Mead and Conway "Introduction to VLSI Design" textbook and that got me launched on a satisfying 33-year high-tech career.
For all the trolls who are butthurt about the fact that Lynn Conway was transgender... get a life. She transitioned to be happy, and by all accounts she did lead a very happy and productive life. Ask yourself what you've contributed to humanity before you snark about Conway.
To thine own self be true (Score:2)
She did cool shit and died happy. Can't ask for much more than that.
...laura
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Gender dysphoria and sexual orientation aren't the same thing at all. Educate yourself.
Re:I'll get modded to hell but I don't care (Score:4, Informative)
Um, no they're not?
I mean, there's a correlation, but it's not a massive one. There's a stronger correlation between gender dysphoria and autism-spectrum disorders than there is between gender dysphoria and sexuality.
Re: I'll get modded to hell but I don't care (Score:2)
About as aligned as the Chinese & Jewish commu (Score:2, Insightful)
They are in fact very closely aligned. Why don't you educate yourself.
Got any basis for this claim? The gay community isn't all that aligned with the trans community. They are both outsiders to mainstream heterosexual communities. However, I have many trans, gay, and bi friends and they're honestly not alike. To me, this is like saying the Jewish and Chinese communities are aligned. They are aligned in the sense that they're not white and they have stereotypical traits in common...but really it's a coincidence. Most in the gay community consider the trans community sort
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The trans community is typically desperate to "pass." Many get offended if you don't pretend a trans woman is 100% identical to a non-trans woman.
So you are saying that the inherent self worth of many trans persons is wrapped up in the subjective opinions of others who may not be interested in participating in their delusion. To be happy, they require all others to repudiate basic biology, obvious sex characteristic traits, millions of years of evolution and deny their own eyesight. That doesn't sound one bit like a mental illness.
Why do you care? (Score:2)
The trans community is typically desperate to "pass." Many get offended if you don't pretend a trans woman is 100% identical to a non-trans woman.
So you are saying that the inherent self worth of many trans persons is wrapped up in the subjective opinions of others who may not be interested in participating in their delusion. To be happy, they require all others to repudiate basic biology, obvious sex characteristic traits, millions of years of evolution and deny their own eyesight. That doesn't sound one bit like a mental illness.
Is it a mental illness? I am not qualified to say. I simply don't care. Yeah, if you're 6'5" have a voice deeper than mine, a giant square jaw, and hands the size of a corolla...yeah, we know you were born with a penis....but who cares?...just call them a girl and move on with life.
Is it weird?...maybe?...but what's FAAAAR weirder to me is people who get upset at them. You don't have to date a trans woman. You don't have to have sex with her. You probably never have to interact with her. Call Bru
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I see a million dumber things in my daily life: vegans, religious folks, etc. I have one guy in the office who thinks gluten is the devil, even though he doesn't have celiac's disease. I have another that thinks that if uses electricity past sundown on Fri, God will hate him?...I've got another that thinks that if he has a beer Allah will send him to hell. I know a bunch of weak, fat, doughey fucks who think they're healthier and morally superior to those of us who eat well and keep in shape because they eat fake soy dairy instead of real dairy. Most of my office won't eat beef. The former male coworker in a dress is the least of my concerns...especially since she actually looks kinda hot. :)
Jesus! Do you work in a carnival?
As far as the don't care attitude, I used to feel the same way. Unfortunately, the freak show decided it wants my mandatory attendance. I've had more than my fill of the "It's Ma'am" bunch. Play make believe all you want, but I'm done placating them.
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No, it isn't what you said because guess what - I disagree with you!
I know, incredible isn't it that not everyone bows down to your planet sized intellect.
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I disagree about alcoholism. It was rebranded as a disease because addiction IS a disease, one that people are more or less born with, at least the propensity for same.
Watching addicts shift addictions when their favored distraction becomes hard to come by would be enough to convince most of this. I've watched addicts cleanly shift between opioids, cocaine, alcohol, rage, gambling, sexual promiscuity, literally any behavior that can be a distraction from the actual problem that they are avoiding by the ad
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In a word or two, my enabling. I did that for 13 years and that's how she got where she did. She'd been an alkie the day I met her. The disease is progressive - it gets worse with time. She had some instances where she had to shift drugs because of medical factors. She'd had a gastric operation in 2013, for instance, which prevented the heavy drinking. That's when she started to weasel opioid prescriptions - Tramadol and Oxy. Then the stomach stretched and she could drink again, so it all mixed up aga
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The goal isn't actually to get high. The goal is distraction - to not have to think about whatever their problem is. In my ex-wife's case, there's probably an underlying case of NPD or bipolar disorder. She hates herself deep down inside. Being drunk or high eliminates all of her inhibitions and quiets the crippling self-criticism. She likes life in those moments, has a shit eating grin on her face, laughs and jokes constantly, and gets touchy and emotional. She only wants sex during those moments. I
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Agreed on all except the cause of her current issues. The issue now IS the addiction. It maybe didn't start that way, but now it is. She called it 'self-medication' from the very start, and still does, even though it's completely taken over her life. It's one of the addict excuses, right along with how everything bad that happened in their life is someone else's fault. Absent the addiction, dealing with a bipolar would just be maddening and abusive. Dealing with an addict is impossible, you have to le
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My first wife was a bipolar, been institutionalized a few times. Not an addict. But ...the gaslighting and chaos were hard to stomach and has had a deleterious effect on my daughters. But that was the way of things in 2000, getting custody of them even though she was fucked up was nigh-impossible.
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Both my exes had the Roux-en-y surgery. The second is featured in the following TV show - Skin Tight S1E1 [tlc.com].
No kids with that one. She's the one prostituting herself out now for drugs. Truthfully, the gastric bypass did neither one any good, sure weight loss but completely effed up in the head. Both manipulated their way through whatever psych barriers there were. Those might as well not be there - those who are sick enough to set off the alarm bells are exactly the kind of people who will say whatever t
Re:I'll get modded to hell but I don't care (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really. They always knew, it's just that there was immense social pressure to conform by getting married and having children. Often their wives knew, but didn't mind because they were good to them and the children, and there was huge pressure on them as well.
As for "getting it on", human beings can fantasise, but more interestingly there was an experiment some time ago where they used sensors to measure arousal in straight men who were shown gay porn. Most of them did experience some arousal, even if they told the researchers that they found it distasteful. Turns out that there is more to sexual arousal than mere attraction to the participants.
Sure you weren't thinking of Women? (Score:3)
As for "getting it on", human beings can fantasise, but more interestingly there was an experiment some time ago where they used sensors to measure arousal in straight men who were shown gay porn. Most of them did experience some arousal, even if they told the researchers that they found it distasteful. Turns out that there is more to sexual arousal than mere attraction to the participants.
What do you mean? Didn't the stated preferences of men (gay or straight) match what their arousal, which the preferences of women (gay or straight) did not?
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/0... [nytimes.com]
The men, on average, responded genitally in what Chivers terms “category specific” ways. Males who identified themselves as straight swelled while gazing at heterosexual or lesbian sex and while watching the masturbating and exercising women. They were mostly unmoved when the screen displayed only men. Gay males were aroused in the opposite categorical pattern. Any expectation that the animal sex would speak to something primitive within the men seemed to be mistaken; neither straights nor gays were stirred by the bonobos. And for the male participants, the subjective ratings on the keypad matched the readings of the plethysmograph. The men’s minds and genitals were in agreement.
All was different with the women. No matter what their self-proclaimed sexual orientation, they showed, on the whole, strong and swift genital arousal when the screen offered men with men, women with women and women with men. They responded objectively much more to the exercising woman than to the strolling man, and their blood flow rose quickly — and markedly, though to a lesser degree than during all the human scenes except the footage of the ambling, strapping man — as they watched the apes. And with the women, especially the straight women, mind and genitals seemed scarcely to belong to the same person. The readings from the plethysmograph and the keypad weren’t in much accord. During shots of lesbian coupling, heterosexual women reported less excitement than their vaginas indicated; watching gay men, they reported a great deal less; and viewing heterosexual intercourse, they reported much more. Among the lesbian volunteers, the two readings converged when women appeared on the screen. But when the films featured only men, the lesbians reported less engagement than the plethysmograph recorded.
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Speaking from personal experience, they don't always know. Being trans wasn't even remotely on my RADAR until I was well into my 30s.
Of course, in retrospect, a lot of past experiences, memories, thoughts, feelings, and relationships were clearly pointing in a certain direction...
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Thanks for sharing your experience. You are right, I should have been clear that it's sometimes more vague feelings of something not being quite right. Because LGBTQ people were so oppressed back then, the lack of role models and knowledge often made it hard to understand what those feelings were pointing to.
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Yeah, I mean... setting aside trans people, there are plenty of cis lesbians who don't realize they're gay until after being married to a man for 10 or 20 years. The reasons behind all of this are kind of fascinating, but I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that we don't often talk about the differences between physical arousal, aesthetic attraction, platonic attraction, sexual attraction, and romantic attraction.
With straight cis people, those are all typically more or less aligned with society's ex
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It's a limitation of English. We don't have many words for love and use the same one for many different kinds.
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I'd say I don't know where you got those ideas, but I'm sadly very familiar with the sheer volume of disinformation around the trans experience, what dysphoria is, etc. It's actually part of the conditioning that kept me from realizing this about myself (combined with an emotionally neglected childhood, a marriage that I lost my sense of self in, and a couple different neurodivergencies that relate to interiority).
To be clear, undergoing a gender transition is in fact a lifestyle choice, and as a result I'm
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I mean it's either a lifestyle choice or brain damage (or both!) That's behind you spamming stupid, strident opinions all over this thread.
Or maybe you were profoundly stupid from a young age?
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Interesting, so you can dish it but can't take it. Typical bigot really. Your obsession with trans people is deranged.
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I don't get it honestly. You clearly hate trans people and liberals to the point where you cheerfully use slurs.
Your clearly proud of your bigotry, so why not just own it?
You know, not the wussy "I'm not a bigot but", but a nice throaty and honest "well I'm a bigot, and"
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> Not really. They always knew,
Not necessarily. For some people who grew up, or at least hit puberty, in some of the nastier and LGBT-hostile parts of the country. (Like the "Bible Belt" or other red states in the US.) where those social pressures are so overwhelming, where it's so unacceptable to be gay, that they can't even fathom it for themselves and go on trying and failing to be hetro and thinking they're a loser who just can't get anywhere with the girls. Sometimes it can take decades to overcom
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Isn't it wierd
What's really weird is how that got past spellcheck.
Not weird at all: the hungry will eat anything (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't it wierd how a lot of guys only discover they're gay/trans after they've got married and had kids. Oddly getting it on with a woman on multiple occasions wasn't an issue which you'd think it would be if they were only batting for the other team and arn't bi.
Most men are more sexually open-minded when they're young and at their sexual peak. For example, if you're Jewish, it's Shiksas all day until it's time to settle down and you need to tell your hot Chinese gf: Sorry....I need to marry a Jewish woman and make lots of Jewish babies because my mom demands I do. Everyone knows similar stories from Indians, Muslims, and anyone else with oppressively strong family ties. Also, many folks want children more than whatever happiness being in the right sexual orientation provides. You prefer men, but don't mind women and want a family?...why not try the traditional route...most think it's a phase they will outgrow.
It's no different, in my mind, than those who work super hard to be a doctor or lawyer because society tells them it's best and it will make their family proud...and then decide once they do it they hate it and become a standup comedian (some famous examples) or open a store somewhere. My local coffee shop owner was a McKinsie consultant with a perfect educational pedigree...did everything the world told her and she decided she'd rather quit and roast coffee at a coffee shop that make millions in a year....same with a woman that runs a local school.
If you have been around, you've met many young women who identify as bisexual. I remember them from 20 years ago in college. Nearly every one I knew is married (to a guy) with kids now. In their mind, they're the cool "alt" momma...with funny colored hair or too many tattoos...very performative...but still married to some passive guy in the suburbs with a normal life. I've heard many lesbians rant about this...how their local pride parade is filled with a ton of straight suburban moms with nothing interesting going on in their dull ordinary lives, but they once ate a muff in college, so once a year, they put on a ton of rainbow and take over the parade....and get to claim being special for being "bi."
So given the changes we see in sexuality and career in the young, it's not weird at all that a person would try to fit in as the gender they were born in...do their best...and later in life realize "this isn't working for me."
Re: Not weird at all: the hungry will eat anything (Score:2)
"I've heard many lesbians rant about this...how their local pride parade is filled with a ton of straight suburban moms with nothing interesting going on in their dull ordinary lives, but they once ate a muff in college, so once a year, they put on a ton of rainbow and take over the parade....and get to claim being special for being "bi."
Attempting to drive away allies in a fit of pique is self-destructive behavior. It's also gatekeeping queerness. How sad.
I celebrated Diwali. Can I claim I'm Hindu?? (Score:2)
"I've heard many lesbians rant about this...how their local pride parade is filled with a ton of straight suburban moms with nothing interesting going on in their dull ordinary lives, but they once ate a muff in college, so once a year, they put on a ton of rainbow and take over the parade....and get to claim being special for being "bi."
Attempting to drive away allies in a fit of pique is self-destructive behavior. It's also gatekeeping queerness. How sad.
You know the old saying...attending a Bar Mitzvah doesn't make you a Jew. Attending a Holi party doesn't make you a Hindu. There's a lot more to both experiences than the one fun facet. Lesbians face all sorts of persistent discrimination and Gay men face a LOT LOT LOT more all over the world. Their daily lives put them at risk and they're visible 24/7 as a member of a community the uncivilized world still hates.
I have many gay friends and have been to many gay pride parades. In the 90s they were f
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You know the old saying...attending a Bar Mitzvah doesn't make you a Jew.
You know the old saying, what the fuck does religion have to do with this?
Now, what's left of the lesbian bar scene, gets filled with suburban moms who live 364.75 days of the year as heterosexuals and face NO discrimination
Make sure to let them know how little you think of them, that will surely make their behavior change.
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It's never a Jewish woman, always "a nice Jewish girl".
You know Jewish but not like a crazy frummer.
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Oh dear, that the best you can do? Well thanks for playing, maybe next time you'll come up with a coherent response.
Perhaps there's more to womanhood than sex? (Score:2)
Another lesbian trapped in a man's body.
I am a man. I like women. I eat pussy. In fact it’s one of my favorite meals. Why don’t I consider myself a “lesbian” trapped in a man’s body again?
(And we wonder why society struggles to define what a “woman” is.)
Because there's more to being a lesbian than eating pussy? (FYI...talk to a lesbian once...they'll be quick to tell you they do more than just eat pussy during sex). You ready to dress like a woman, wear makeup, change your name, and completely identify as a woman?
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Woah there tiger what's makeup got to do with it?
Plenty of women don't wear makeup. Including don't trans women.
But your point does still stand on the whole.
why bother then? (Score:2)
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I guess it depends on one's group.
I'm an engineer and a turbo nerd, frankly. I tend to hang around with other engineers and scientists and related disciplines and they're not a hugely makeup heavy group on the whole. Some exceptions, but it's a trend.
Anyway, one of my friends wears the standard sysadmin uniform of jeans, boots and the kind of top which one would more commonly associate with women. No makeup. Obviously female, but not in army sense super feminine, just kind of normal for the area. She mentio
You're highlighting correlation with ASD (Score:2)
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OK, I can't wear a dress, I'll just wear fun men's fashion and be metrosexual in my attention detail on my appearance.
That's a weird take. I've sometimes taken much more substantial interest in being fashionable and my appearance, to the point of getting random strangers complimenting my hairdo. I've never felt any gender dysphoria.
IOW, these things are not the same.
So you feel more like you have more in common with your sister than your brother?
I do. We hung out loads as teenagers, and she often came out w
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Because you didn't transition? Also it was a joke bit hey whatever mang.
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Pretty crude comment for the obituary of a trans woman who led two separate computer revolutions and suffered immensely for coming out.
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The picture on wikipedia shows a stunningly photogenic lady.
A professional picture.
She also had cosmetic surgery a few years ago. She was always presentable as a woman, but decided she wanted more.
...laura