Real-Time Computer-Based Translation in Iraq 338
[TheBORG] writes "The U.S. military has been testing software on laptops that translate English to Arabic and Arabic to English to have conversations with Iraqis without the need to have a Arabic linguist on hand. 'This year the military's Joint Forces Command has been testing laptops with such software in Iraq. When someone speaks into a microphone attached to the computer, the machine translates it into Arabic and reads that translation aloud over the PC's speakers. The software then translates the Arabic speaker's response and utters it in English.'" (See this related story from last year about this daunting machine-translation task.)
I never thought before I spoke before... (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:I never thought before I spoke before... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I never thought before I spoke before... (Score:5, Insightful)
The mechanistic translation of Arabic into English will further blind US troups to the social and other conditions in Iraq. They will get back the techical translation but none of the meaning of the speakers. As such the failure to have good translators will be a serious problem. I suppose the best example of this is in a silly film "Mars Attacks". "Don't Panic, We are your friends." ---> Time to start panic.
Re:I never thought before I spoke before... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, the gadget will likely have a catalytic effect: given something that can ease some of the basic communication challenges, the bulk of the troops will likely become somewhat conversational rather quickly.
I base my remark on personal experiences of the US Navy in Japan and the Philippines--I wouldn't expect Iraq to be substantially different.
Your point about the need for good translators is not without merit, but the pessimistic tone elicits a yawn, sir.
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1. Find an article, any article, that's written in english.
2. Go to babelfish or some other translation site and translate it into another language.
3. Now, translate that back into english.
4. Endless hours of fun, especially while drinking.
This will either piss the Iraqis off more, or make thm laugh so hard that they'll stop bombing each other.
~X~
Computer: AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US (Score:5, Funny)
From the article:
Given that "Al Qaeda" is Arabic for "The Base", and machine translation is notorious for its poor grasp of grammatical structure and homonyms, are soldiers going to have to deal with outputs like "AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US"?
Re:Computer: AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Computer: AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US (Score:4, Funny)
What? Oh damn, never mind.
Translation through a computer in life or death situations makes me sad inside.
Re:Computer: AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Computer: AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US (Score:4, Insightful)
They use Persian numbers.
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Arabic text usually uses Hindi numerals. Regardless of the numerals used, numbers in Arabic read from left to right.
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"What do they call them in India?"
our stolen intellectual property.
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Re:Computer: AL YOUR QAEDA ARE BELONG TO US (Score:4, Interesting)
That way you keep the translators out of harm's way, making them easier to retain/hire.
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Big worry (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Big worry (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Big worry (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Big worry (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to mention a panicked, confused english speaker who just had his leg blown off by an IED.
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Chances are such a victim will be in no state to even try to operate a device like this. If there are other people with him who can operate it, chances are they will be English speakers and so won't need a translator in order to communicate with him.
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Re:Big worry (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait, that's already in English...
Re:Big worry (Score:5, Funny)
* I would paste the google translated Arabic, but for some reason
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"ACK ack ack ACK ACK"? [imdb.com]
Obligatory Python... (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm sure we could always plead incompetence. Now drop your panties, Sir William, I cannot wait til lunchtime.
Subtitles (Score:5, Funny)
Reminds me of old experiment (Score:4, Interesting)
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Wrong (Score:4, Informative)
The phrase "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." is a Groucho Marx quote. I'm not sure of the original context, but it is an example of how English (or any other natural language) is notoriously difficult to handle. For example, the sentence "Time flies like an arrow." may be justifiably interpreted in a variety of ways:
May I be the first to say (Score:4, Insightful)
I used to work for a translation company and I've seen how much confusion can arise from even human translation, it makes me wonder really how prone to error this will be.
I speak Arabic (Score:2, Insightful)
They'll have to learn the hard way.
Re:May I be the first to say (Score:4, Interesting)
My job wasn't to translate. I produced translated websites and printed documents. The company I worked for was sort of a translation broker. We worked with in country translators across the globe. People who have never worked in the industry seem to think it should be simple - it isn't. Consider some of the complications:
1. Regional dialects - i.e. Canadian French is not identical to what is spoken in France. Same with English in the US vs. UK.
2. Language specific to a certain domain, such as medical, technical or legal.
3. Slang meanings
4. Humor/sarcasm
5. Analogies and metaphors
Consider a reference to Bible parable (say Noah and the Ark) sure most people in the US would understand it - but would you understand the relevance of a reference to a parable from the Koran?
We frequently had professional translators arguing amongst themselves as to the proper wording to use.
Re:May I be the first to say (Score:4, Informative)
Or in text from http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/TheHunga
A Hungarian tourist (John Cleese) approaches the clerk (Terry Jones). The
tourist is reading haltingly from a phrase book.
Hungarian: I will not buy this record, it is scratched.
Clerk: Sorry?
Hungarian I will not buy this record, it is scratched.
Clerk: Uh, no, no, no. This is a tobacconist's.
Hungarian: Ah! I will not buy this *tobacconist's*, it is scratched.
Clerk: No, no, no, no. Tobacco...um...cigarettes (holds up a pack).
Hungarian: Ya! See-gar-ets! Ya! Uh...My hovercraft is full of eels.
Clerk: Sorry?
Hungarian: My hovercraft (pantomimes puffing a cigarette)...is full of eels
(pretends to strike a match).
Clerk: Ahh, matches!
Hungarian: Ya! Ya! Ya! Ya! Do you waaaaant...do you waaaaaant...to come
back to my place, bouncy bouncy?
Clerk: Here, I don't think you're using that thing right.
Hungarian: You great poof.
Clerk: That'll be six and six, please.
Hungarian: If I said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?
I...I am no longer infected.
Clerk: Uh, may I, uh...(takes phrase book, flips through it)...Costs six and
six...ah, here we are. (speaks weird Hungarian-sounding words)
Hungarian punches the clerk.
Meanwhile, a policeman (Graham Chapman) on a quiet street cups his ear as if
hearing a cry of distress. He sprints for many blocks and finally enters the
tobacconist's.
Cop: What's going on here then?
Hungarian: Ah. You have beautiful thighs.
Cop: (looks down at himself) WHAT?!?
Clerk: He hit me!
Hungarian: Drop your panties, Sir William; I cannot wait 'til lunchtime.
(points at clerk)
Cop: RIGHT!!! (drags Hungarian away by the arm)
Hungarian: (indignantly) My nipples explode with delight!
All your base all over again (Score:5, Funny)
Computer: #All your base are belong to us#
Iraqis: [hysterical laughter]
Whats that? (Score:2)
I bet it doesn't work too well. (Score:5, Interesting)
"Do you want to kill me?" "No."
And for anything approximating a normal conversation, it's utterly fucking useless. Also, for the times when you actually need a very urgent, very good understanding of the language to prevent a lot of trouble, I bet it's beyond worthless.
At present, and for the forseeable future, there's no adequate substitute for humans that speak the language. I realize we throw Arabic speakers out of the military because they're gay and all, but maybe we could make an exception because their skills are necessary at present. No computer translation system is adequate for usage in a live military operation.
Oh, and IACL (I am A Computational Linguist).
Re:I bet it doesn't work too well. (Score:4, Informative)
I realize we throw Arabic speakers out of the military because they're gay and all, but maybe we could make an exception because their skills are necessary at present.
Do you really think there are enough a)Arabic-speaking b)openly c)gay soldiers in the military, to make a difference? I bet you could count them all on two hands.
I think the military's policy is pretty stupid. However, I think if soldiers truly cared about "serving their country"(in quotes because I'm tired of "fighting in Iraq" = "defending freedom" in public discourse) above all else, they simply wouldn't tell the military they were gay. I'd also suspect that those that DO care about fighting for their country simply DO clam up and get the job done.
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You haven't seen his hands, have you?
Armed Forces Desperate for Arabic Speakers (Score:4, Informative)
The dismissal of this many Arabic-speaking military linguists *has* had an enormous impact on the military's ability to function efficiently in the Middle Eastern theatre. Believe it or not, the Army is now recruiting linguists on Craigslist with the following ad:
I have also seen a classified ad from the Washington Post from the U.S. military, seeking Arabic linguists (among others) for training and employment. Clearly, discharging all those Arabic-speaking members of the military because of their sexual orientation was foolish, to say the least.
As for the argument that these soldiers should just "clam up" and "not tell the military" they are gay, many LGBQ people would love to serve their country this way. However, you should go to the previously mentioned Servicemembers' Legal Defense Network website at http://www.sldn.org/ [sldn.org] to read about the everyday harassment, "witch hunts," and physical and emotional violence inflicted upon gay people by the military in violation of its own "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rules. I think you would be extremely surprised to find out how many servicemen have been killed in the past five years by members of their own divisions/units; the Armed Forced do not exactly issue press releases every time something like this happens. The bottom line is that the vast majority of LGBQ soldiers are forced out against their will, as they try to be quiet and inconspicuous and to serve their country.
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Here's the arabic re-translation (translate from english->arabic->english, not the best test, but whatever) of the first paragraph of this comment:
"Dondo, I tried to images to the interpreter of
Sorry, couldn't help it (Score:2)
Easy (Score:2, Funny)
* "I am a Canadian, not an American, so don't kill me."
* "I voted for Kerry"
* "Run!"
* "Oh Shit!"
* "I don't care how big her tits are, YOU frisk her this time."
* "Cut and run? sounds like a great idea right now."
* "Quick, help me find my lower intestine!"
Priorities (Score:2)
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What won't be making it into translations (Score:3, Informative)
This is very important. Ever have somebody tell you "It's not what you say, it's how you say it"? It's true.
2. Colloquial expressions and figures of speech.
Right now, I'm looking at this book [amazon.com] filled with conversational Arabic expressions I picked up in the U.A.E., most of which make absolutely no sense when translated into English. Do you know what "The son of a duck is a floater" means? Neither will U.S. troops or this device.
3. Body language
Many Arabic speakers in particular gesticulate while they speak. It is just part of their cultural identity and often, the body language is just as important as what is being said. U.S. troops in the field won't understand the importance of what they see, let alone what they hear, and this device certainly won't help them with that either.
This is just what I could think of in a minute or so. I'm sure there are many more fundamental problems with using the translation device. Note that with a real live translator, most of these problems are avoided. If the U.S. military kept its Arabic translators in their ranks instead of firing them based on their sexual orientation [wikipedia.org] then maybe they wouldn't have to resort to these ridiculous devices.
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believe it or not, another part of arab culture is that they will in fact take a very dim view of your using a flaming gay translator to speak to them.
"I'd rather my son be dead than gay!" (Score:3, Funny)
po' ahab's behind: fatima was a chick with a stick (Score:2)
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"Do you know what "The son of a duck is a floater" means? Neither will U.S. troops or this device."
Okay, it was either a mod point or a reply, but I'm dying to know. What exactly does it mean?Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
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I cannot emphasize this point enough. Even IF the machine is able to grasp the wildly varying pronounciation of most words from area to area (just see Lebanon, which has at least 20 different "accents" of Arabic), there are way too many sentences that won't mean anything when translated literally.
A very common greeting in the Gulf countries is "Shlo'nak" (that's how they pronounce it, even though technically i
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1. Inflection and emphasis of some words over others
This problem is mitigated by several factors. Speakers and listeners will likely be aware that the emphasis is lost, and will probably speak slowly and evenly, and listen more carefully to what is being said. Most anyone would not take offense or grossly misunderstand the translation unless it was in perfect Arabic or English. It won't be - it's going to sound like broken A
Google (Score:2)
The only people ... (Score:3, Insightful)
None of this is to say that we can't ever do it, or that we shouldn't attempt. But the people who think it's possible with today's computer technology really don't understand the complexity of the problem.
NP complete problem (Score:2)
They'd be better off passing out books on Esperanto to the Iraqis and teaching it as a mandatory requirement for deployed forces. After all, the US will be in Iraq long enough for the entire population to learn the language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto [wikipedia.org]
The process of translation (Score:4, Interesting)
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Too bad Canada is weather hell. I still think about moving my family there sometimes. Or Costa Rica. Or New Zea
Ya but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Math Time (Score:2)
Compute the value of the following expression:
Inaccuracy of speech recognition + inaccuracy of translation software + inaccuracy of text-to-speech software
Where "Inaccuracy of speech recognition" is equal to "Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all".
Where "Inaccuracy of translation software" is "Lost in Translation [tashian.com]".
And where "Inaccuracy of text-to-speech software" is equal to "The occasional mispronunciation or wrongly-placed pause or accent or lack thereof."
SOLUTION: Well wha
At least they're being realistic (Score:2)
It's not like anyone's leaving Iraq before 2009, so why rush it?
did they just try YELLING? (Score:2)
damn i cant remember the actually funny thing i was going to say.....
god damn lameness filter wont let me post this in all caps....
Perfect, as the computer has no family (Score:2)
ambiguous input leads to choices (Score:2)
Abort, Retry, Ignore? [google.com].
Hmm, great idea.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I can just imagine the "limitation of liability" portion of the end-use agreement from the company that developed the translation software...
Even worse, what happens when some on-the-edge person pulls out a hidden weapon and injures/kills a soldier (or whoever) because of incorrect translation? Oh, is this just part of the "risk of the business"?
Sorry, the page you requested was not found. (Score:2)
But, my limited experience is that this is combining two technologies that are decades away from being ready for prime time -- computer assisted translation and voice recognition -- and expecting the result to work.
I use Bablefish occasionally and the results are generally entertaining, but not very useful --- especially with Japanese which someone points out elsewhere presents many of the same problems as Arabic.
And I have never encounter
Neat idea! (Score:2)
That way you could also fuck up two regions of the world simultaneously.
Colorless (Score:3, Funny)
A frightening idea (Score:2, Informative)
"One day, a U.S. soldier entering tense situations without the assistance of an Arabic interpreter might rely on two-way translation software in mobile computers."
The idea of occupation forces in Iraq relying on machine translations is frightening. I don't believe it will work, but that is only the start of my concerns. We're not talking about translating technical conversations, or asking where the bathrooms are. We're talking about frighteed 19 year olds who are afraid of each other. Ho
Speechgear? (Score:2, Informative)
This is great cuz (Score:2, Informative)
How it works (Score:2)
learn what real time means (Score:2)
Wow. (Score:2)
Arabic varies WIDELY from country to country. Learning Modern Standard Arabic and a regional dialect (I studied Egyptian) is almost like learning two different languages at once - words, verb conjugation, plural forms, grammar, etc. change between dialects and standard Arabic.
I wonder if this computer translates Iraqi colloquial as well as Modern Standard, or requires the speaker of Arabic to speak Modern Standard (which would limit it
A Microsoft moment... (Score:2)
great ice breaker (Score:2, Interesting)
Arabic is not Iraq's only language (Score:2)
Low tech solution to the problem (Score:2)
Patent Pen Ding (Score:2)
The man in the uniform said... (Score:4, Funny)
and then poked me with the electric cattle prod again.
I'd tell him what he wants to know, if only I could understand the question.
An example (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, being generous while categorizing those results gives:
Complete Success = 2 out of 9 = 22% (Spanish and Chinese)
Almost successfull = 1 out of 9 = 11% (Japanese)
Catastrophic failures = 3 out of 9 = 33% (Portuguese, Italian and Korean)
Serious failures = 3 out of 9 = 33% (French, German and Arabic)
How they get to sell software which fails more than half the times at translating such a simple sentence is truly beyond me...
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You chose a relatively difficult sentence (Score:3, Interesting)
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Phew (Score:2, Funny)
I will not buy this record, it is scratched (Score:2)
I don't even want to go to the lengths to say that the software might have glitches akin to the old Monty Phyton joke mentioned in the subject line. But having something that should be translated as "Can I stay with you fo
Re:Great Idea (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Great Idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember the same thing happening while I was teaching English in Prague, 99 percent of the americans there simply couldn't learn czech, while a good 80-85 percent of the rest of us did. I spoke better czech after about 3-4 months than most of my american friends, regardless of how long they'd been there. Never mind how well the russians did, most of whom picked it up in weeks or at most a few months (their language obviously being much more similar, but still)
Being an american who spoke the local language was in fact considered extraordinary, and usually these people would be very well known in the expat community.
I have a feeling the soldiers would be more welcome and more accepted by the locals if they at least made a token effort to learn a little bit of the language and try to understand a little bit about local culture and values. Like, you know, read a few books published by iraqis for instance.
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Re:Great Idea (Score:4, Funny)
I know enough Arabic to know Yimshi means "Walk," or "Leave/Get out of here."
Re:Great Idea (Score:4, Informative)
Sign seen in Afganistan in 1980 by a journalist (Score:2)