First Details of Windows 7 Emerge

Some small but significant details of the next major release of Windows have emerged via a presentation at the University of Illinois by Microsoft engineer Eric Traut. His presentation focuses on an internal project called "MinWin," designed to optimize the Windows kernel to a minimum footprint, and for which will be the basis for the Windows 7 kernel.

Rinse, Repeat

So Microsoft tells something about the next version of Windows not long after the people have noticed that their current version isn't all that it's made up to be?

Re:Rinse, Repeat

Why is this modded troll?

Microsoft are the kings of targeted vapourware.

They spent most of the '90s poisoning the well [madisonavenuejournal.com] for their competitors with this tactic. What makes you think they're not doing the same thing again?

Size matters

"Windows kernel to a minimum footprint"

It depends if you have size 24" feet (MS) or 8" feet like real normal OS's. No matter how big the foot, you can only reduce your footprint to the smallest size of the foot.

So that, as far as I am concerned, is a nebulous comment intended to fool the press and others that still believe every MS 'press release' they spew out.

Lesson in MS Counting

Apparently it goes:

2, 3, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7!

No wonder kids have so much trouble at math....

Re:Lesson in MS Counting

Actually, the proper lineage is:
Windows NT 4, Windows 2000 (NT 5), Windows XP (NT 5.1), Vista (NT 6), 'Windows 7' (NT 7)

Re:Lesson in MS Counting

2, 3, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7

Oh... it's worse in Excel 2007;

65533, 65534, 65535, 100000, 100000, 65538, 65539.. and so on!

Maybe there's some nice pattern too?

Re:Lesson in MS Counting

Apparently it goes:

2, 3, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7!

I'm more curious what will Apple name their next major release, if ever.

OSX, OSXI, OSXII, OSXIV...?

Of course, once they reach 10.9, they have the option of pissing in the face of basic number representation and call the next version 10.10, then 10.11 ...

Re:Lesson in MS Counting

3 = 3 9x = 4 2k/xp = 5 vista = 6 7 = 7

Nuff said.

No, not really. That equation actually makes sense to you? Are you one of the Microsoft Excel developers?

Re:Lesson in MS Counting

Actually there are 2 Windows lines...

MS-DOS Based
1.x, 2.x (Windows/286, Windows/386), 3.x, 4.0 (95), 4.1 (98), 4.9 (Me)

NT Based
3.1, 3.5, 4.0, 5.0 (2000), 5.1 (XP), 6.0 (Vista), 7

Good intentions

I'm sure Microsoft developers have good intentions and big dreams for Windows 7. I'm sure they did for Vista at the beginning of the project. But they'll have to cut corners, meet dates, add legacy support, and all the things a behemoth like Microsoft always thinks they have to do. For all their failings, you've gotta give Apple credit for having guts to change things - the Mac has gone through three CPU architectures, and two completely different operating system kernels.

Re:Good intentions

But they'll have to cut corners, meet dates, add legacy support, and all the things a behemoth like Microsoft always thinks they have to do.

Legacy support is important to many business Windows customers; some of them are still using 16-years-old custom software that needs to run on whatever desktop OS their employees are running.

Re:Good intentions

If you can't handle it, port the application to a more recent version of Windows.

If the application is sixteen years old, it should have system requirements that would be considered trivial by today's standards, so virtualization or emulation shouldn't cause as much of a performance hit. Instead, the application would perform as if it had been written today.

Virtualised Legacy

Legacy support can easily be virtualised. That's how Apple managed the jump from OS9 to OSX (the "Classic" environment was launched on-demand), and that's how Windows 7 should be built.

Sure, legacy apps will run marginally slower, but new apps will be free of the built-up cruft.

I wonder...

I can't help but wonder if this is a reaction to OS X being used on iPhone and iTouch(mySelf). Maybe they're trying to consolidate windows/windows CE. Or maybe this is just another feature that will be cut in favor of demanding a DNA sample before allowing you to access the internet.

Seems to coincide with patents

This seems to coincide directly with some recent patents filed by Microsoft. It seems what they're truly after is an al-la-carte style OS where DRM is used to control the subscription of such "base OS" additions. Read more on the patent here, http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060282899%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060282899&RS=DN/20060282899 [uspto.gov]

Basically, you purchase the base-system and tack-on additional subscription based modules. My concerns are how the subscription model will function, the subscription pricing, and the potential for removal of prior features such as 3D acceleration on the 'base' system.

It also appears that DRM will be used extensively in this model and will not be solely limited to music/video as previously thought.

Honesty, and I'm not trolling here, but this looks pretty scary. This reminds me of driver-signing gone awry. I don't see the potential for open-source/free modules due to item #3. Arbitrary application, memory, CPU, and process limits are also concerning.

The whole "add-on" 3D support as well as "don't limit my desktop to 5 open applications/processes" seems incredible. I imagine the base system will be usable to about 3% of the population and the subscription-based add-on modules may be pricey. I can't imagine a DRM style approach for 3D gaming/enthusiasts being acceptable. Imagine having to pay $20/mo for 3D + multiple core CPU + 2G RAM and the minute you stop paying all those modules expire and are no longer active until you resume payment; like Napster and other DRM based music models work.

-evilghost

Call me in 2012.....

when its at least in beta.

Re:Call me in 2012.....

No thanks, I'll be waiting for Hurd [gnu.org] to be production-ready.

This time will be different!

It's going to have a database file system! It's going to be secure! No more rebooting! It will have a really good command line!

So what?

The kernel hasn't been Windows's problem since NT 4.

The real problem is the middle-management clusterfuck. The direct result of which is the bizarro world of Windows the platform and its zillion libraries and APIs that have subtle (and not so subtle, but probably undocumented) incompatibilities.

Microsoft's own devs can't figure that shit out and they've been trying since XP. It has only become worse since they shoved all the digital restrictions management into the system.

ah! just in time

ah! news of a new version of windows -- just in time for the release of Leopard.

looks like Mistersoftie is up to their old hype the vaporware [wikipedia.org] tricks to dissuade buyers from going with attractive alternatives.

Windows 7 preview

You turn on the computer. You are greeted by an angelic chime that gets progressively louder until your speakers shake. You attempt to adjust the volume but it only gets louder still. A full screen Window icon ripples across the screen then all goes black. The product activation screen prompts you to enter your activation keys, printed on 27 pages of holographic alloy glue to the inside of the aluminum DVD case. For the next 3 hours you enter the activation key, taking breaks to use the bathroom, eat, and make phone calls.

After entering the correct activation keys, a dialog appears prompting you to select your social login profile group. You have no idea what that is so you click "Other Networks" The next dialog says "Connecting to networks..." for the next 5 minutes. A message apears saying "New Hardware Found" but it can't find the driver. Another popup appears "No networks found". Then your desktop appears. The wallpaper is stunning. The Internet Explorer icon appears to majestically float above the screen. You click it. A message appears warning you that the Internet can harm your computer, do you want to continue? You click "Yes". You are prompted to enter your administrator key. This key is on the sticker on the inside of your PC case. You shutdown the PC, get a screwdriver, open the case, write down the 18 digit administrator code, put the case back together and reboot.

After rebooting, blocking your ears during the chime assault, and oggling the amazing wallpaper, ignoring the "live folders server not found" error, you try Internet Explorer again. You dutifully enter the administrator key. You are asked if you want to save this key to your "universal keyring" You click OK. You are warned that the universal keyring is encrypted and your sending encrypted information. You click OK. After 3 minutes you get an error saying "No key server found" ... and so on...

You never do get to see the Internet. But the wallpaper is amazing.

 

That's just sooo not gonna fly

Take it from a former Microserf - this "internal project" will be taken to the nearest corner and shot (and maybe also mutilated and spat on). When you have a huge turd of a codebase dating back 15 years in some places, the last thing you want to do is dramatically rehash it. Projects like this are DOA at Microsoft after the WinFS fiasco.

Re:that sounds good but..

One of Apples biggest wins with controlling the hardware AND the software is this very fact... they have phased out legacy equipment and software every so many years.

Re:that sounds good but..

This is essentially exactly the same as Windows Vista except instead of removing features as they get close to the deadline, they've started out with all the features already removed. When you don't meet your expectations, lower the expectations.

Re:that sounds good but..

"has mac done this or is it just that the OS on a linux bas system is just plain faster"

The implication that the Mac might have got rid of the BIOS (and hence gained speed) is tied to "a linux-based system is just plain faster". You could easily read that as suggesting the Mac is Linux-based.

FWIW, the Mac doesn't use a BIOS, it uses EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) these days. And it's not Linux-based either.

Simon.