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Comment: Re: illogical captain (Score 1) 855

by sumdumass (#47914463) Attached to: Why Atheists Need Captain Kirk

That's why I picked the religious equivalent of the college course "Underwater Basket-Weaving 101." (Which also has a Wikipedia page.) Treat it as a hypothetical example only, and we can focus on the meaning it was meant to convey instead.

Fair enough. but the point I was intending to make was that it never was a scientific endeavor that I can tell, just philosophical mental masturbation. But I understand what you meant, - when including unscientific parts, you cannot come to a scientific conclusion. But I disagree as even with fictional game characters, you can scientifically evaluate aspects of the traits of both the characters and game and determine if they are capable of performing challenges within the game. Or in other words, you can do scientific experiments with gravity without knowing exactly what makes gravity work.

So I don't mean a scientist can't be religious, or that you can't do a scientific study of how religious views have changed in the last fifty years. I mean that in most ways, science can't be used to verify or disprove many aspects of the world's religions. It's just not compatible, not up to that job. The two are mostly incompatible.

And I disagree. Whether God was on their side or not, you can scientifically test if a battle in a war actually happened, where it may have happened, and if one side won against all odds. You certainly cannot test if God made it happen or determined the outcome, but the rest you can.

Full disclosure: I'm not a scientist, but I enjoy science. I'm not religious either though, not having been raised with it. Though I did grow up in a diverse neighborhood with several religions represented. By the time I was old enough to be asked "What religion are you?" I realized I didn't have an answer and couldn't find a method of picking one that didn't feel any less arbitrary than throwing darts at a list while blindfolded. I still have not selected one and likely never will.

That doesn't make much difference to me. Religious or not, I think you might be putting too much emphasis on everything being true in order to move on to what you can tell is true. But this could come back and bite like in an experiment with Gravity, for the longest of time, we knew it existed, we have several theories to why it exists, but didn't know how/why it works other than an attraction. General theory of relativity is the common understanding now but it is being replaced with a quantum hybrid model and being soaked into the theory of everything. Yet it has been tested so much that we use it to our advantage all the time. We have even devised machines that take advantage of forces greater than gravity to defeat it (planes and air resistance/pressure) and we did this before our common theory of understanding was in place. This is a prime example of how you can discount what you don't know or cannot test yet still test and use to your advantage.

So the unknown and untestable should never be an impediment to your exploration of science. As with the war example, saying God was with them and guaranteed the outcome does not mean the battle never took place. It just means you cannot test one aspect of it.

Comment: Re:News for Nerds? (Score 1) 55

by sumdumass (#47914099) Attached to: A 16-Year-Old Builds a Device To Convert Breath Into Speech

Perhaps the ability to pick up the sound without outside interference too? Or the fact that the MEMS creates more or less a digital signal by default?

Actually, it likely isn't doing anything with sound in the traditional sense. The MEMS microphone is pressure sensitive so it is likely not listening for breathing but measuring pressure differentials when breathing occurs. This could aid speed because you could close your lips and move your tongue or mouth or even flex your throat to force air through your nose to do the Morse code quicker then short bursts of breathing. In this case, air pressure would be different with air moving verses not moving even if just by minute amounts. Although the article says distinguishable breaths so I may be wrong on it.

Comment: Re:Car Dealers should ask why they're being bypass (Score 3, Interesting) 107

by sumdumass (#47913597) Attached to: Court: Car Dealers Can't Stop Tesla From Selling In Massachusetts

And even then... Tesla doesn't have to deal with the dealerships. That whole model of sales is obviously going to come under challenge from all the other car companies now that will all ask "why do we have to deal with you when Tesla can do what they want?"

Maybe Toyota or Ford will want to have their own stores. And the dealerships are going to have to justify themselves to those organizations.

They would have to cancel all their franchises first. The State Supreme Court ruling said they couldn't sue Tesla because Tesla were not franchised Tesla dealerships. So if Ford or Toyota had franchised dealerships- they would have to get rid of them first in order to sell direct.

Tesla could open franchised dealerships and sell in the states they are restricted in. But my guess is that margins are paper thin and they do not think the markup necessary for franchised dealerships would be attractive enough to sell the cars.

Comment: Re: illogical captain (Score 1) 855

by sumdumass (#47913519) Attached to: Why Atheists Need Captain Kirk

It is the many assumptions that are accepted in most religions that are the problem.

It's not a problem, it just isn't scientific. Philosophy is not scientific either, but there are many avenues where science can be applied.

A crude example would be the angels-dancing-on-a-pin religious question that some well-meaning people tried to apply the scientific method to once upon a time

I have never heard of this before so I looked it up. All I can find on it seems to be a philosophical exercise and not any scientific endeavor. Do you have information on it outside of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...

Unfortunately, there are at least two assumptions that must be made before that question can be looked at scientifically: the existence of pins and the existence of angels. (There are many more, such as the motivation for divine pin dancing in the first place, but this is just a crude example anyway.) One can devise an experiment to demonstrate acceptable pin-ness of a given object, but there we have to stop. One cannot build science on unsupported (by science) assumptions.

Like I said, all I can find on it is philosophical concentration- and modern usages to somewhat denote the same as naval gazing. Are you one of those people who suffer this spokism or whatever in that you simply cannot fathom philosophy without passing it through a scientific lens?

This sort of thing happens at every level of religion. That is why science tends to be incompatible with most of them.

Not at all. The vast majority of religions is little more than historical accounting's with meaning pressed into them.

At the most basic level, there should be an experiment such that if I do X and Zeus exists, then A should happen, and if Zeus does not exist, then B should happen.

Is there an experiment you can conduct to see if my friend Frank exists like this (oh yeah, without gaining his explicit permission or demanding his attendance)? Does that mean Frank doesn't exist or he is incompatible with science? You are talking about an experiment to compel someone or something with a free will to do something specific in order to satisfy your curiosity. Try going hunting sometime. You can get all the calls in the world, spray yourself down with animal piss, spend shit loads of money on clothing that masks the human scent, and still sit in the woods all damn day without ever seeing the game you are after. That doesn't mean it isn't in the woods or even those woods, it just means they didn't pass by you. This happens all the time to some hunters and even nature watchers. You simply cannot force something with a free will to jump and that doesn't make it incomparable with science either. Think of free will as being a choice of when two mixture are combined, to either change color or not at it's choosing.

Science can't disprove many aspects of most religions and that is why it's incompatible. The devil is in the assumptions, you might say

Science cannot disprove many aspects of reality either. You cannot scientifically disprove the other guy ran the red light which caused the accident most of the time. You cannot scientifically disprove my friend Frank exists. You cannot disprove my accounting of something that happened in third grade when I was the only witness. What you can do is say there is not enough evidence. But more importantly, even without being able to disprove any of that, you can scientifically address aspects of the crash from the running of the red light, you can scientifically address things Frank has done, you can scientifically explain whatever I claims to have witnessed in third grade, therefore just like religion, it is not incompatible with science. There are just areas that reach outside of science.

Comment: Re:No, no. Let's not go there. Please. (Score 1) 855

by sumdumass (#47913391) Attached to: Why Atheists Need Captain Kirk

No, you are wrong. I said what I said because that is who I meet and that is what they do.

I know science proves religion _unnecessary_ but I was describing a specific type of person- of which there are a lot- who claim science proves_religion_wrong. Do you understand that I am saying specific people are doing a specific thing and not what reality is or should be?

Now, how does that bode for you when my username is so apt and you cannot follow a fucking sentence properly.

Comment: Re:illogical captain (Score 1) 855

by sumdumass (#47913349) Attached to: Why Atheists Need Captain Kirk

The churches started science and I'm not aware of any scientists punished for daring to look at the world. I'm willing to bet that if you started naming them, you would realize you are not aware either. About the only one I am aware of it Muhammad ibn ZakariyÄ RÄzÄ but he actually spoke against Islam in the process too.

Comment: Re:Fucking Government doesn't care about US (Score 1) 72

by sumdumass (#47913307) Attached to: NSA Metadata Collection Gets 90-Day Extension

Way to ad hominem. Noone cares what terms "legal systems" use. If "legal systems" are allowed to make up and define words, then the entire Constitution is meaningless. Your "legal system" and "findings" have no validity UNLESS they comply with the Constitution, you moron.

Actually, it is the other way around. Because legal system have defined words, the legal meaning will never change and always be understood to mean a certain thing unlike what the common usage of words allows. It is within this framework that the constitution can be understood.

The rest of your comment is directed at the AC who got modded down so I will not go there. But it is important to understand that habeas corpus will always mean the same thing as will other words defined by the legal system- even if they are understood differently outside of it.

Comment: Re: illogical captain (Score 2) 855

by sumdumass (#47905011) Attached to: Why Atheists Need Captain Kirk

Actually, you can ignore it. You see, the science in conflict doesn't say religion is incompatible, it says religion isn't needed and here is how this is processed.

As for the religios, if a supernatural being created everything, that being very much could have created it in ways it could be understood and usefull to our progress. So no conflict there either. And again, science does not say any religious conflict is wrong, just that it is not needed.

Comment: Re:Where is the misuse of military equipment charg (Score 2) 276

No, he was not convicted of an illegally broad search. The appeals court found that the search was illegally broad so following the poisoned fruit doctrine, all evidence obtained that was connected to that search could not be used in the conviction of someone distributing child porn. The naval officer and the navy itself was not convicted of anything and likely will not face charges.

The title is misleading if you consider guilty as a conviction in a criminal court. The issue at hand was the court found as a "matter of fact" that the search was overly broad and violated a law so the evidence could not be used. When doing so, it is actually saying the navy did something wrong or illegal but no one was prosecuted over that act so no one was convicted (so far).

For once, the good guys win.

I would actually suggest that this should read "for once, the over reach of government loses". I'm not entirely sure the navy is the bad guys and I'm pretty positive the guy with kiddie porn is not exactly the good guy.

Comment: Re:hoooray (Score 1) 73

by sumdumass (#47904117) Attached to: Medical Milestone: Scientists Reset Human Stem Cells

've seen "supply-side" economics in action, and it doesn't work. Well, not for the neediest, at least. You can call me whatever names you want, but I'm neither a "liberal" nor a "communist." I find it amusing that you didn't seem to notice that overall employment and wages have stagnated or declined since the supply-siders started implementing their policies.

Umm.. I will call you delusional then. And you are somewhat naive if you think supply side and trickle down are connected to the state of employment or wages you are pointing to. Offshoring, free market trade, and market demands are more responsible for that then economic theory that hasn't been in practice in a long time. In fact, energy costs significantly put us into the place we see today. You can look at the trail of it recently, the oil embargo of the 70s- jobs ground to a halt, inflation skyrocketed. Energy costs stabilized in the mid 80s and after a purge of inefficiencies, employment looked better. In the 90s, energy was cheap and there was a job for about anyone who actually wanted one then energy costs rose again in the 2000s and we are back where we started with few exceptions.

Hayek and Friedman were wrong.

Only if you ignore the imperfect attempts at implementation and the facts that it will always be imperfect. Keynesian economics launched us through the dust bowl and into the great depression (which was again helped by the collapse of access to European markets before WWII). It's like saying you can never put a rocket into space because a couple blew up on the launch pad while ignoring someone with a shoulder fired rocket launcher and the smoke trail leading to them. Life and economics simply is not that absolute.

That's not to say that Keynes was right about everything either. Higher wages and progressive income (or, potentially even a VAT) taxes led to the largest economic expansion in history in the 25 years after WWII, That's history. Look at the data.

You can thank most of Europe being decimated for most of that. I mean we dropped the brenten woods silver standard shortly after Europe rebuilt specifically because outside forces and the fact that Europe did not depend on US imports to any discernible degree any more started collapsing the value of the dollar to the point that silver on the open (read secret) markets was trading for substantially more.

Your problem is you are trying to condense a complex set of events into a single cause without recognizing the plurality of cause and effects.

don't need others to tell me what to think or say. I do my own thinking and draw my own conclusions.

You are doing such a poor job doing it on your own. Perhaps you just spoke before actually knowing the facts and I was wrong about assuming you are a brainwashed idiot?

The reward of a thing well done is to have done it. -- Emerson

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