Sony Fixes Problems With New DVDs

An anonymous reader writes "Following up on reports that DVDs for some Sony titles were causing problems, Video Business is reporting that Sony has fixed the copy-protection problem on recent DVD releases, and will provide replacement discs to customers. The problem was with the ARccOS DRM system. The company issued the following statement: 'Recently, an update that was installed on approximately 20 titles was found to cause an incompatibility issue with a very small number of DVD players (Sony has received complaints on less than one thousandth of one percent of affected discs shipped)... Since then, the ARccOS system has once again been updated, and there are no longer any playability problems.' Customers can call 800-860-2878 to inquire about replacement discs."

So few complaints?

0.001%? Did they even ship enough disks in the first place to get such a small number of complaints as one in 100,000?

*crosses fingers and hopes my maths is right* :p.

Re:So few complaints?

I think most of the people didn't even report to Sony.

If a DVD was not working, I would just bring it back to the shop, the second time I would exchange it for another DVD (not the same movie).

My 2 cents on what probably happened is that they did not count all the returns for these titles, they just counted the people who sent emails complaints or called their hot-line and who told specifically about the DRM problem so they could minimize the problem, which is alot better for them from a marketing point of view.

Re:So few complaints?

This is based on my own past work experience, but often times our corporate numbers were based primarily on a specific statistic. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if, in this case, "Sony has received complaints on less than one thousandth of one percent of affected discs shipped." really translates to "Sony has received complaints from registered users on less than one thousandth of one percent of affected discs shipped."

If a client of ours had failed to register their software, we would still process their claim but label it as an "external client." I never trust numbers anymore...

Re:So few complaints?

0.001%? Did they even ship enough disks in the first place to get such a small number of complaints as one in 100,000?

I can assure you that this is a gross underestimate of the actual situation. I'm guessing that Sony didn't get that many complaints because people were just beginning to track the problem back to them. I'm one of the people who was hit by this (with my Toshiba DVD player), and it was only three weeks ago that I was certain the problem was with Sony, as it was only the second DVD I had rented that had problems. I would guess that most people complained first to the video rental stores (like Blockbuster) or their retailer (Walmart), and then moved on to their DVD manufacturer (I know this was my progression). That would mean that most of the complaints have not yet really reached Sony, and they are just trying to sidestep the issue now.

Re:So few complaints?

CD standards are set in stone
DVD standards seem to be set in jello

Re:So few complaints?

CD standards are defined and policed by one organisation.

DVD standards are the product of a large collaboration between double-figures of large businesses originally, one of them being Sony themselves. There are now hundreds involved, and AFAICS there is no single group with the authority to take enforcement action is someone is abusing the "DVD" description.

learn to count

1 percent is 1/100. One thousandth of that is 1/1000 * 1/100 = 1/100000
Or one out of a hundred thousand. Your argument still stands, though.

Re:So few complaints?

Why are we not applauding them for biting the bullet, actually fixing the problem and replacing the affected discs which a lot of companies wouldn't do? Is everybody just so firmly strapped to the Anti-Sony bandwagon that it's impossible for anything sony does to be met with anything but derision and petty insults?

Re:So few complaints?

"Why are we not applauding them for biting the bullet, actually fixing the problem and replacing the affected discs which a lot of companies wouldn't do?"

A lot of companies wouldn't do? Just off the top of my head, I can think of two examples: When Back to the Future was released on DVD, the panning for the full screen version was messed up. The discs were recalled and re-released. People who purchased copies of it got a replacement. The Twilight Princess for the Wii had a bug in it that could cause a player to get stuck. Nintendo's now offering free replacements of the game. I'd bet that if I hopped on Google, I'd find more examples of that. But is that really the issue? I don't think so. They twiddled with copy restriction, which in reality has a harder effect on legit users than pirates, and some of their own players couldn't even handle it. Then they went on to claim there were dizzyingly few complaints about it. Bit the bullet? They're still using the scheme and claiming virtually nobody was really affected.

"Is everybody just so firmly strapped to the Anti-Sony bandwagon that it's impossible for anything sony does to be met with anything but derision and petty insults?"

*Sigh* Anti-Sony bandwagon. I love it. Sony racks up numerous complaints over the course of a year, but really it's just a fad. Right? You would think with all the bad PR, especially surrounding copy restriction, they'd pull back a bit. Instead they just keep getting into mischief. Yet there's always somebody who says "I don't understand, so you must be some group of crazy people." Whatever. The next time you stay up late one night pondering Sony's predicament, at least try to give everybody a little credit and assume they weren't born with S0N3 SUXX0Rs tattooed to their forehead.

Re:So few complaints?

Ya that's what Intel said about the Pentium bug...people should send in physical letters to Sony (not emails) by millions.
This will make them see light of day.

I got a more reliable fix for such problems...

It's called the AVI file format...

I have the solution!

Instead of calling the 800 number, consumers can visit their local torrent site and download the movie for free long before the replacement disc reaches their door.

Have a great day Sony.

Re:I have the solution!

Instead of calling the 800 number, consumers can visit their local torrent site and download the movie for free long before the replacement disc reaches their door.

Don't download the ISO though, otherwise you'll be straight back to square one...

Sony...

Anyone surprised this happened to Sony [thebestpag...iverse.net]?

Contradiction?

there are no longer any playability problems

So, the update consisted of removing the DRM? Not even Sony can deny that the soul point of DRM is to create playability problems...

Re:Contradiction?

Who exactly are they fighting? The people who buy their products?

Re:Contradiction?

Yep.

As a fan of "The Simpsons" who buys the series boxed sets when they're released, I emailed Fox about the logic of putting their "Piracy Is A Crime" video at the front of every DVD (a video which is impossible to skip through) when the first thing any pirate will do is remove that same video on any copied disks.

I also told Fox that I considered it fair use to rip those DVDs to AVI format to store and watch on my media PC and that the anti-piracy video was contrary to what I bought that product for - namely the ability to use the "Digital Versatile Disk" format as and when I chose to watch Simpsons episodes, without having that blasted video popping up every time.

That was over a year ago and despite two follow-up emails, I have never even got any acknowledgements from them, let alone a reply.

I wouldn't be too sure...

Look at the way their DRM [wikipedia.org] currently works:

The system deliberately creates a number of sectors on the DVD with corrupted data that cause DVD copying software to produce errors. Normal DVD players never read these sectors since they follow a set of instructions encoded on the disc telling them to skip them. Less sophisticated DVD playing programs do not follow these instructions and instead try to read every sector on the disk sequentially, including the bad ones. Slysoft's AnyDVD, Fengtao's DVDFab Decrypter, RipIt4Me + DVD Decrypter + FixVTS + DVD Shrink, MacTheRipper (freeware), along with VLC media player[1] and MPlayer/MEncoder (for Linux) are usually able to overcome ARccOS protection.

Which really, really makes me wonder exactly what players it was intended to kill...

I think I've seen these before, incidentally. But it seems that the whole point is to fuck up their disks exactly enough that they won't play on certain players (God knows which ones, if mplayer can play it), but not enough that they won't play on real players. Thus, it's based not at all on actual standards (like CSS), and entirely on existing DVD players.

They could be calling it an "update" meaning an actual removal, as a marketspeak word. Or it could really be an update, basically figuring out exactly how the cheap DVD players play discs, and making these DVDs playable in that, but still a PITA for something like dd.

Cynical?

So as soon as this story started to gain momentum, they issued a fix and a statement offering a replacement disk. Well, full marks to Sony for learning from recent public relations disasters, but I doubt I'd be so impressed if I was one of the people who had experienced this problem, and I had been complaining left right and centre to no avail for several weeks. Seems as though Sony only back-pedalled on this issue once they feared another DRM PR-storm was the brewing up.

If the disc plays...

What's to stop me whipping out DVD Decrypter and just stripping this copy protection? If need be, I could then fire up Nero Recode and do my own menus too. How does any copy protection scheme work on a format that doesn't expect one or have any way for a player to enforce it? Seriously I wonder if Sony HQ shouldn't muzzle Sony BMG and tell them to forget about retro DRM schemes because it seems to be fuckups all the way. The whole company is getting a bad reputation because of one small part - a part which in truth should be subservient to the rest, and not the other way around as it seems to be at the moment.

Re:If the disc plays...

That's my point. I can easilt rip a DVD and produce a perfectly acceptable single or dual layer DVD+R with about 90 minutes work. I don't see any point at all in Sony or anybody else attempting to copy protect DVDs or CDs since the measures are trivial to circumvent. So what if it prevents bit-for-bit copies? I expect the first thing most pirates would do is run the disc through DVD decryptor or similar first to strip out macrovision, region encoding etc. anyway.

It must suck to be a DRM engineer

When your stuff works too well, you have to "fix" it. When it doesn't work well enough, you have to fix it. And in the theoretical scenario where you get it to work just right, you'll be hated, and likely out of a job.

I have a simpler fix.....

STOP buying SONY media all together. First they plant rootkits on the PC's of their loyal customers and now this headache. I vote with my wallet plain and simple. Any company that is going to be a pull these sorts of antics simply won't be getting any $$ love from me. People forgive and forget far too quickly and thus the big monster doesn't learn it's lesson.

One lesson here: Vote with your Wallet and don't give your money to prick companies.

Re:I have a simpler fix.....

It's not a case of "forgive and forget" - far too many people are too damned lazy to keep themselves well informed which is precisely what the DRM-supporting corporations are banking on to get DRM in quietly through the back door.

And what else should I be keeping myself informed about? The latest proposed abuses of drivers to extort more money, and the latest stupid "pro-cycling" legislation that makes cycling more dangerous? The relative morality of the food sourcing policies of the four major supermarket brands with stores near my home? The levels of customer service of my ISP and telephone company? The details of the different extortionate charges levied by all the banks with branches in my city?

There are two big problems with your argument. Firstly, no consumer has the time and experience to know about everything. Secondly, even if they did, since it's common for most or all of the big name businesses to cut the same corners in the name of increasing profits while keeping competitive prices, while the smaller or more ethical businesses can't compete on price and are essentially a niche market for dedicated "ethical consumers".

This is why a completely free market is often not a good idea, and government should intervene with regulation/legislation where markets fail to act appropriately without such incentives. No-one else has the time and resources to monitor diverse consumer markets and keep the big boys in line.

Re:I have a simpler fix.....

Just make sure you--and anyone else who chooses to boycott Sony products--e-mail them and tell them that the reason you won't be purchasing any more of their products is their copyright protection schemes. Otherwise, they're libel to blame decreasing sales on piracy and up the ante even further.

You can say a lot about Sony

But this 'fix' came a lot quicker than their debacle with the broken CDs.

On the other hand, this fix would not have been necessary, had they not used DRM in the first place.
And it doesn't leave the fact, that I'm still not buying anything that Sony makes.

Re:You can say a lot about Sony

Therein is the reasoning that still eludes Sony, even after this event and the rootkit. When the security feature is designed to guard against the customers, and the real security threat can get around the security feature anyway, then we're all wasting time and money. Sony is probably still looking at this as a PR issue, rather than as a bad security and technology decision.

Awaiting arrival of clue ... error: clue still absent.

ARCcOS DRM?

Hm, what's this then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS [wikipedia.org] says,

The system deliberately creates a number of sectors on the DVD with corrupted data that cause DVD copying software to produce errors.

Ah, so this is the corrupted audio CD debacle all over again. Thanks Sony, for making products deliberatly designed to malfunction. Truly Defective By Design [defectivebydesign.org].

Think about this

Sony pays people to find a way to have a perfectly good product not work. And they're not the only ones, either. Almost all the major movie and music industries are paying people to design a way to stop their products from working. Their goal is to redefine what "works" means by taking away all the innovation required to create such glorious things as DVDs or CDs and limiting everyone to a subset of the original features, and continuously do so until we forget that the original set existed.

Vote with your wallet, and your geek-conscience. Don't put people in power that support bullshit like the DMCA. See if you can find a candidate who thinks selling products that don't work should be illegal. Write letters to companies telling them WHY you're not buying products designed to not work. Fight the man!

They'll do it again....soon...

This bunch just doesn't learn.

That's nice

Let me tell you a little story. When I was a child I used to yell FUCK YOU!! at the top of my lungs at any given moment. Needless to say my parents would get very upset. So they sent me to one of those "etiquette schools" to see if they could break this horrible habit. What they would do is to encourage me to say something else. It worked pretty good. So now when I think of cussing I just say, "That's nice".

Sorry seems to be the hardest word

We've only got a report about this not the actual Sony statement to go on, but it seems to me that there's a total lack of apology here, just a blatantly absurd claim about how few complaints there were. Come on Sony, at least have the guts to say you are sorry... if if it's only 'we're sorry we got caught'.

Sony's PR department really don't seem to understand that they have a monumental image problem. A bit of humility in their press releases could have won back some respect for free, but instead they sent out something that reeks of arrogance.

Re:Sorry seems to be the hardest word

Sony's PR department really don't seem to understand that they have a monumental image problem.

Many Slashdot posters really don't seem to understand that most consumers don't care about DRM and company image. They just want to watch Casino Royale or whatever, and as long as it works, they'll be happy.

Sony, however, do understand this, which is why they keep trying this sort of crap without much fear of the consequences. Until DRM becomes a high-profile issue with the general public (which basically means until the majority have been directly and adversely affected by it) Sony's PR department probably don't much care.

Of course, when DRM does become socially unacceptable, which may finally start to happen as a result of the major changes in the on-line music market over the past few days, Sony's history of abuse may well become a PR headache for them. But it's rare for any corporate PR group to think that far ahead, because often consumers just forget or don't care enough by the time the issue comes up.

Are Sony people morons ?

Really ? After ALL they did to consumers, (rootkits and other crap) gamers, (swg anyone ?), other small shitty stunts like this one, one would think that they would come to their senses by now.

At this rate, sony is going to be the first mega corp to bite the dust out of arrogance.

SONY: Time to take your medication

" Sony Fixes Problems With New DVDs"
Customers ordered to only watch movies in cinemas.

"Recently, an update that was installed on approximately 20 titles was found to cause an incompatibility issue with a very small number of DVD players" .. Thus the global announcement.

"(Sony has received complaints on less than one thousandth of one percent of affected discs shipped)..."
We've put this sentence to you in brackets as subtle acknowledgment that this a lie. Our public relations disaster recovery team wanted to use a ;-), but our lawyers disagreed and we thought the brackets were a good compromise.

"Since then, the ARccOS system has once again been updated, and there are no longer any playability problems.'
'Or else!' sneered the SONY spokesliar, shaking his fist and the audience,

" Customers can call 800-860-2878 to inquire about replacement discs."
Customers can also call the same number for replacement rootkits.

War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. SONY are a respectable and much-loved corporate citizen.
Could SONY be any more unpopular? Why don't they branch out into genocide and sell ballistic missiles to North Korea?
I can honestly say it wouldn't hurt their stock price.

They should dig up Morita-san and prop him up at the boardroom table. He couldn't do a worse job that Howard "Eat your damn Rootkit and love it" Stringer

Already Fixed It

I used Ripit4me.

Squeezing blood from a stone

If I bought a legit DVD that didn't play in my DVD player, I would never buy another Sony DVD again.

These corporations are so stupid. They think that piracy == lost revenue. Sure, there is SOME lost revenue, but a lot less than they probably think.

What!?

They fixed the copy protection problem? Woohoo, no more DRM! Oh, wait...

Warning Label

DRM will always cause problems with some older players that aren't designed to handle it. The industry has decided that they should warn their customers with a clear label that the DVD may not play on DVD branded equipment. The label looks something like this [globalgiants.com]

No, Sony has the math right

Sony has the math right. Only one out of 100,000 discs sold had a complaint, you just don't understand their logic behind it.

They sold 200,000 discs. Complaint #1 was from Wal-Mart, and #2 was from Best Buy.

You didn't really think they include what consumers think in any of their decisions, do you?

Passive Weasels

'Recently, an update that was installed on approximately 20 titles was found to cause an incompatibility issue with a very small number of DVD players (Sony has received complaints on less than one thousandth of one percent of affected discs shipped)... Since then, the ARccOS system has once again been updated, and there are no longer any playability problems.' Customers can call 800-860-2878 to inquire about replacement discs."

Every verb in their acceptance of responsibility is in the "passive voice" [wikipedia.org]. Sony didn't do anything - things happened. This is the kind of weasel words that we hear from leaders in government and industry all the time these days. They say "I take full responsibility" to deflect criticism that they're not taking responsibility. Then they don't say " I did (X wrong)". They say "Mistakes were made."

And the pool of resentment that they did something wrong, but refused responsiblity builds up with nowhere to go. Which means they just did something else wrong, in addition to X, that they avoided responsiblity for, by weaseling out while pretending to take responsiblitiy.

So if EVERYONE asks for replacements...

While this problem only affects some small portion of the people that purchased the 20 or so titles, I think it would be highly educational for Sony if every single one of those discs was turned in for replacement...

I can't believe it

Why does anybody still buy Sony DRM/Rootkit infested crap?
Boycott Sony!

This is a great opportunity

This is a chance for all of us to return our discs, working or not, to where we bought them and cause massive losses to Sony for all the crap they have done.

Maybe if we can get this to cost them a lot of money, they would drop the whole useless DRM thing?

Kevin

NZ release of Casino Royale

....was just released yesterday. Plays nicely on my Philips DVD/Divx player. So far, no problems backing it up with DVD Shrink or Smart Ripper 2.41. Maybe the New Zealand release doesn't have said DRM?

Great attitude...

Now if only we could all be so bold when it comes to Microsoft?

Re:Phuttt... there goes the last trust for Sony

For not much more than you'd spend on an Ixus, you could get a Powershot with vastly more powerful features. I got a Powershot G7 [amazon.com] and am very happy with it. I thought the Ixus line was targeting people who need cameras that are fashion accessories and which complement clothing. If your needs are travel photography or just taking family photos around the house, Powershots are better economy.

But anyway, turning this somewhat on topic: even choosing a Canon camera involves supporting a not entirely blameless company. Remember, Canon is a company whose RAW format is proprietary and undocumented, and offering a third-party way to open it may be treading into dangerous legal waters. It's better than Sony, sure, but it seems like corporations have sunk to such lows that all shopping these days is choosing the lesser of evils.

Cybershot or Olympus

Funny you should mention that... the camera purchase I mean.
A friend of mine recently (last weekend) asked me for help in purchasing a new camera. It came down to a cybershot (the upgraded version of the one I have, which I quite like btw) or an Olympus model. The guy behind the counter was good to do a deal on either and in the end he asked me which one I'd buy.

My response? 'Do you know what Sony did with the rootkit fiasco a while back? Right? Yes. Ok. Do you REALLY want to plug *anything* made by Sony into your PC? Even if it is only a camera that connects via USB so you can upload. Your choice.'

He bought the Olympus. (yes, for other reasons than that 'it's a Sony! Yuck!'. Still)

Yes, it is only one sale. Yes, it is only one cheap ($300) camera. However, it is one less Sony product sold, and one more person who will seriously think about *anything* branded with Sony in the future. And his family. And his friends. And anyone else who asks me if I'd reccomend a Sony product.

Back to the article. I'm shockd that it says that it is 'fixing problems'. I thought that it meant that they were going to remove the DRM :)

Re:Phuttt... there goes the last trust for Sony

/cry

Sorry folks, I really want that Bravia 46" LCD. At least that'll support their legitimitely good hardware business, not horribly evil Sony Entertainment...