Intern? Bloggers Need Not Apply 253
westlake writes "Short, funny, and to the point, a good read from the NYT about the realities of blogging in the corporate world." From the article: "Most experienced employees know: Thou Shalt Not Blab About the Company's Internal Business. But the line between what is public and what is private is increasingly fuzzy for young people comfortable with broadcasting nearly every aspect of their lives on the Web, posting pictures of their grandmother at graduation next to one of them eating whipped cream off a woman's belly. For them, shifting from a like-minded audience of peers to an intergenerational, hierarchical workplace can be jarring."
Yeah, it's real (Score:5, Funny)
Hospitals (Score:2)
I'm sure there are a few corporate environments that are worse, but they're proba
Re:Hospitals (Score:4, Interesting)
(all of this known, first-hand)
Hospitals are sieves...for the most part. I can cite a current situation where things were kept very clandestine due to the extreme nature of what was going on. The press largely chose to skip over it which shocked me.
Nurses aren't unfireable, per se, regardless of how endangered a species they appear to be. It just costs more to lure some of them out of hiding. Nurses are, however, almost the lifeblood of a facility as there are few things they can't & don't do, out of care for the patients as much as pure necessity. You don't see orderlies any more. It's not unusual for a minimum of the staff, working directly or indirectly for the hospital, to be more than 1/3 nurses. There's only one thing which nurses do not cope with very well: hospitals which offshore nurses; i.e., bring in 3rd-world nurses. There is almost nothing they won't do -- trumping the nurses we believe so strongly in. Fortunately, this is a rare, rare situation.
The group (en masse) which has virtually no accountability to the hospital is that which has a lot of M.D. and other related abbreviated diplomas and licenses. They rarely work directly for the hospital but instead, for a separate organization which more or less dovetails into hospitals' structures such that it's as if they are working for the hospital. The bridge is usually someone who works in a department labelled (or similarly labelled) Medical Affairs.
Something hospital staff (including MDs, RNs[1], and even housekeeping have to be reminded of is not to talk about what they see, hear, or participate in or outside of the hospital. (re: patients) Most people would be surprised how much "indirect" shop talk takes place after a shift over a few drinks and even with specific clues left out, it's possible to identify whom they are talking about. What's worse is when they do it in the hallways or elevators and may be sharing hearing space with family or friends of the patient(s) they are discussing.
____________________________________
[1] You'll notice I abhore using the "grocer's apostrophe" with acronyms. I hate seeing "MD's", "RN's", "PC's". It's gotten so bad people will post ads in real newspapers ala "Schedule Party's With Us!".
Actually, the purpose for this footnote was to point out how many nurses and technicians (doctors don't seem to do it very much) say, "I'm headed to the OR|ER room".
Re:Hospitals (Score:2)
Sure you do - they're just called nurse's aides now. These are the people who do stuff like wipe the butts and change the sheets of patients who shit themselves in the middle of the night. (I'm serious.)
For every 2 or so nurses in most units, there is 1 nurse's aide. There have to be more nurses because they hav
Re:Hospitals (Score:2)
hehe [azstarnet.com]
Re:Hospitals (Score:3, Insightful)
All I will say is THANK GOD I'm a canadian so I don't even have to THINK of this kind of bullshit. Primary medical care is a basic need, and ONLY the best people for the job should be hired and retained. There is NO logical argument to the
Re:Hospitals (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hospitals (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, it's unfortunate that people who dedicate their lives to the care of the sick and injured can't be fired by some blow-dried corporate fuck because his golf game got canceled.
Problem (Score:2)
This article summed up in ten words: (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This article summed up in ten words: (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, written content never dies, it just defines you for life. Ask any politician (that can write).
That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see (Score:3, Funny)
Blackmail (Score:5, Insightful)
I determined a while ago that any private material that becomes public material can be used against you. In about 20 years I expect a metric shit-ton of blackmail material will be available for our future up-and-coming politicians. (Thank you MySpace for embarrassing our future politicians!)
Of course, because I'm smart enough to keep private matters private, I'm automatically disqualified from politics. (Yay!)
Hint: No matter how awesome that frat party was (I don't care *how* crazy those midgets where!), it's probably not a good idea to post those pics until your hangover is gone.
Re:Blackmail (Score:2)
A) It is something that doesn't fit "the norm"
B) It can be used to set you apart from peers
Bear in mind that in 20 years, most of those bloggers are going to make up a significant (if not majority) chunk of the voting population.
We cannot assume that morality as it applies today will remain unchanged 20 years from now. I mean, there was a time it was indecent for a woman to show any leg above the knee; what won't be taboo in 20 years will probably shock you. And that
Re:Blackmail (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Blackmail (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Blackmail (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course he has. He's a double-plus Good Citizen! Bringing up any past history would just be trying to tear down your President in a Time of War. What's wrong with you? Don't you know how that would affect the morale of the troops? Do you want us to lose the War on Something? Come on, jbrader, are you supporting our troops, or are you with the terrorists?
What's sad is that several years ago, I could expect a few Funny mods for this... n
Re:Blackmail (Score:2)
Re:Blackmail (Score:2)
Re:Blackmail (Score:3, Funny)
Thanks for getting that nasty vision stuck in my head...
Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace (Score:3, Funny)
Just think if this have been around in the '80s when King George was partying his brains out....
-What's the Speed of Dark?
Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace (Score:2)
Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace (Score:2)
But Whose Belly? (Score:5, Funny)
Get in my belly. Non free life sucks. (Score:2)
If you are really that rash, I don't want to work for you. The problem with a non free economy is that I might not have a choice.
As large companies are increasingly favored, the assholes win. When society and government tolerate blatantly anti-competitive behavior, your ability to switch jobs or start your own business dissapears. The assholes in any company realize this and abuse their subordinates as they please. The subordinate has the
Re:Get in my belly. Non free life sucks. (Score:2)
(The funny thing about "corporate culture" is that it's self-inflicted. Every suits-type feel the need to wear a stupid tie, but all (almost...) agree it's stupid...)
I say, post whatever you want on your blogs, or anywhere. Being turned down from a job (you wouldn't like anyway, if the managemen
Re:Get in my belly. Non free life sucks. (Score:2)
Couldn't get away with that in Seattle and a few other places I can think of, at least if you are hiring for any kind of technical or creative position.
I mean who care if the DBA has tattoos, long blue hair, and facial piercings as long as they know what they are doing.
News Flash!!! (Score:2)
Lets not couch this in terms of some kind of cultural divide. These people are putting things in public that should be private and then suprised by their own ignorance.
It is a cultural divide. (Score:2)
Human nature has not been changed by blogging. Everyone has their moments and they are witnessed in public. If you work for a company long enough, people will get to know you and your faults. The difference between then and now is that now people don't have to go on word of mouth, they can see the pictures themselves.
It has nothing to d
Re:It is a cultural divide. (Score:2)
Sure it does. Your example of everyone "having their moments" in public is not the same as deliberately choosing to then describe, link to, and post photographs documenting your "moments." Those are usually moments that seem funny because they are outrageous while still endearing within your peer group, or don't seem too offensive by your own generation's standards... but those who have been raised with the web at their fingertips have absolutely no excuse for no
Re:It is a cultural divide. (Score:2)
So, yes, it has everything to do with job performance. It means that you're less qualified to do the job than the other 100 (or other 1000000, if you do anything in the computer field) people that applied.
The mysterious Step 2. (Score:2)
Step 1. Get Job
Step 2
Re:The mysterious Step 2. (Score:2)
Nope.
A chilling future (Score:5, Interesting)
OK, I've heard the "information wants to be free" mantra a zillion times, and I've met my fair share of people who think their right to free speech (no matter what they're saying and what the consequences will be) trumps anything else.
I've seen an absurd story on the news today about a British woman who was prosecuted for indecent exposure, because she had the audacity to sunbathe nude in her own garden. (She was acquitted, but the comments by both the public prosecutor and the judge were profoundly inappropriate, and no-one seems to have taken any action against the "offended" neighbour who videoed the nude sunbather without her permission - something that probably is illegal under the recent Sexual Offences Act.)
You know the thing that really scared me today? A professor (in the UK sense, i.e., a very senior academic) talking about the "semantic web" and implying that in a few years, everyone will have a unique "Internet ID", and everything from their personal details to pictures of their wedding will be on-line for all to look up, instantly and reliably.
Choosing to share your personal information with the world is one thing, though I suspect a great many of the enthusiastic youngsters supporting trendy web sites today will regret it one day. Choosing to share others' personal information with the world is an entirely different thing, and I'm not sure I want to live in a world where everything about you is assumed to be public knowledge.
Maybe I'm just biased, since a bitter ex of mine did once post intimate and formerly private personal messages on her blog (but edited and with modified dates). It just seems to me that this sort of thing is happening ever more often: it's assumed that no-one you deal with has a private life, and if you know it, it's perfectly fine to share it with others. I guess the whole posting confidential company information thing is just another nail in the coffin: as the saying goes, privacy is dead, and we have killed it.
It's tragic, and it's even more tragic that most people don't even realise. Yet.
Re:A chilling future (Score:2)
My point wasn't so much about the sunbather, but rather the fact that the guy who decided to film her without permission while she was on her own property (this wasn't a public activity) was being treated like a victim by the legal system (as is made clear by comments from both prosecutor and judge), yet not held accountable in any way for what many of us would surely consider inappropriate behaviour.
The scary thing is this idea that anything you know or have access to is automatically suitable for public
What Would Google Show? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
I got a solid offer the next week. Connect the dots.
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
The other hits are all from 2000 or later, and all of them are decently respectable.
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
I am fairly open about my life and work, but I am not that open about where and who I am. Change a few details , omit company and private names and you are a bit safer.
Freedom of speech is important, and so is freedom of understanding of said speech. So you will influence peoples opinions of you due to your speech, it is part and package of it. If they don't know who said it, they can't hold it against you.
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Exactly. Use a pseudonym or alias for your personal ramblings. Encourage your friends to do so as well. And be very careful never to let the two mix. This makes it easy for friends to keep up with your life, but difficult for strangers to simply se
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Googling my name shows a 5th grader who made a garden, some actress who was in a musical with Frank Astaire, there's a font with my name (yay!), and a shitload of genealogy reports of people not related to me.
I've never actually gotten any decent results when googling a random non-famous person I've met, so I'm not sure why HR directors would waste their time bothering.
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
>I've never actually gotten any decent results when googling a random non-famous person I've met, so I'm not sure why HR directors would waste their time bothering.
It really depends on your name. If your name is Jim Smith of Ellen Jones, then Google isn't much good without some additional filter. On the other hand, my real name is unusual, so it's pretty much all me and ten pages worth. Your mileage may vary depending on your name.
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
At least now that I'm married and I've added my married name to my maide
Re:What Would Google Show? (Score:2)
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of fake websites set up to impersonate the writings of another. Google might say that's the person's history, but it could be entirely written by trolls.
Why differentiate? (Score:2, Insightful)
"It is important that corporations make a choice as to what type of blogging they will allow," said Alfred C. Frawley III, director of the intellectual property practice group at the law firm Preti Flaherty in Portland, Me.
Why does blogging need a different set of rules than any other medium for communication?
If there is something your company doesn't want disclosed, have the lawyers draft up the paperwork. Just for kicks, we'll call it a "non
Bloggers As Celebrities (Score:4, Interesting)
Blogging seems to extend this idea (ideal?) by making peoples stories more openly shared. For example, I read http://www.waiterrant.net/ [waiterrant.net] and http://www.oblivio.com/ [oblivio.com], I know their stories even though they live in new york, and somehow the world feels smaller and less disparate. Added to that, I have a few friends who read the same blogs, we both know their stories (or at least the stories they choose to tell).
It brings back that sense of community a little.
missing link. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:missing link. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:missing link. (Score:5, Funny)
MOM?!
Re:missing link. (Score:2)
Did you really think your Mom was never a horny human being?
I'll never get why so many people pretend to be shocked about completely normal behavior.
Jeez man. (Score:2)
Humor? Slashdotters need not apply.
Re:missing link. (Score:2)
The problem is with extremes (Score:5, Insightful)
Similarly, any boss who fires an employee simply on the basis that they have a blog, regardless of content, deserves some sort of dressing down - although this is harder to achieve.
People are too often pushed into very polarised positions on the matter, which helps no-one. There's plenty of acceptable middle ground, if only someone could bring reasonable discussion to the table.
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
Perhaps someone can advise on this.
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
Looks like you can, in some places, fire someone for blogging at home. Or driving a Ford. Or growing tulips in the backyard. I stand corrected.
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
One word: Unimployment
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
If you need me to be available 9am-5pm, that's fine. Being physically in the office at 9am makes no sense. I programmed my PBX in the office to reroute calls starting at 9am to my cell phone and unprogrammed that when I was actually in the office.
They didn't like the concept, but that's what the policy is at my company. I pay for availability, not to have someone's ass in one of my office chairs.
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
However, in many parts of the world they have semi-rigid schedule. I.e. "you must be there from 9 to 4, and make have lunch during at most one hour between 12 and 2 (and at least half an hour), and total 40 hours per week". So you can come in at 8, have your lunch hour, and leave at 5. Or come in at 9, have half an hour lunch, and leave at 5h30.
But you can't come in at 9h30, even if you stay til 6h30.
And even if you're completely flex, there's still the issue about total hou
Re:The problem is with extremes (Score:2)
Oh god - I hope they don't read /. (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, I think many people invent a psuedo-name and often don't realize when they've crossed the line from anonymous to identifiable when you look at the collection of what they post. The vastness of the internet makes people feel safe even when their standing naked in public.
I've worked with 2 people who were fired over blogs they thought were quite anonymous, but it became quite clear who was writing them when you looked at the collection of posts. They both knew perfectly well if they were caught they'd be fired (and they should've been), but they also felt quite anonymous since they didn't use their 'real names. It's ALOT like folks that post 'anonymous' comments on stock boards.
Re:Oh god - I hope they don't read /. (Score:3, Interesting)
Simply being anonymous may not be enough anymore. You may need to sufficiently change your prose style, which may be very dif
Re:Oh god - I hope they don't read /. (Score:2)
Re:Oh god - I hope they don't read /. (Score:2)
Jeez. Gotta be careful about those intros... (Score:2, Funny)
Come to think of it, gotta be careful what you post at Slashdot: all that anti-Microsoft hatred that can get spewed could be problematic when The (Wo)Man goes to sign a paycheque.
job hunting (Score:2)
Re:job hunting (Score:2)
Totally Misleading Headline (Score:5, Informative)
But Comedy Central disagreed, asking him to change the name (He did, to "I'm an Intern in New York") and to stop revealing how its brand of comedic sausage is stuffed.
"They said they figured something like this would happen eventually because blogs had become so popular," said Mr. McDonald, now 23, who kept his internship. "It caught them off guard. They didn't really like that."
So, basically, they objected to him sharing potentially confidential information (fair enough) and to his using their name for his personal (readership/ad) gain. Again, fair enough. He still got to keep the blog, and he's still an intern there. Oh, and he didn't have the blog when he "applied," anyway.
Le sigh. If the editors don't RTFA, what hope is there for the rest of the readership again?
Re:Totally Misleading Headline (Score:2)
The internet: a threat to the powerful (Score:2)
Don't forget to Google(TM) them, too... (Score:2)
Your future bosses and the people interviewing you are also online, and may have interesting bits of information floating around there.
If nothing else, it makes sense to include personal information searches in your "company background research" phase of interview preparation. The more you know, the better prepared you are.
Jim
Naivete (Score:2)
I fail to see why bloggers are perennially shocked by this. It really has nothing to do with blogging -- if you talk about company business in public, you're in danger of being fired. It's that simple.
The fact that bloggers seem more inclined to blab publicly doesn't really affect anything to do with this. You talk about company business, you risk being fired. It doesn't matter whether or not you do it by leaking it to a reporter, talk about it in a bar, or post it on the Web for all to see.
The mora
Newsflash: Becoming a responsible adult is jarring (Score:2)
Well, duh (Score:3, Insightful)
While I most likely wouldn't call anyone to an interview whose postings show indescretion, I often think of how I'd just like to see their face when I place a copy of their search results in front of them.
Why do you think I post under a 'nym?
Re:Well, duh (Score:2)
Then again, if you knew my most preferred pseduonyms...
Re:Well, duh (Score:3, Insightful)
If a prospective employer knew enough to look in the right place, it would be a different story. I'm not ashamed to own up to anything I've put online, but I don't necesarrily want to have a person who doesn't know me well forming a snap judgement on a random sampling of material.
I regret nothing! (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm no intern, nor am I an up-and-coming executive. The sort of life I'm looking for and the "adult" lifestyle I pursue is one that's totally compatible with some random guy who makes bad jokes on message boards, produces cheaply done artwork, remixes pop music without permission, writes "Doctor Who" fanfic, is a member of a pagan coven, MCs cheezy presentations at hacker cons, and posts strange dreams to livejournal. I may not ever make partner in the prestigious XYZ firm, I may not ever break six figures, but I'll be somewhere doing something that is compatible with someone like me.
So, having things on my "permanent record" like the stuff I've done with phonelosers.org or 2600 or whatever else is strangely liberating in its way, because it pretty much forces me into putting my money where my mouth is and seeking out a lifestyle I'd be happy in, rather than one I'll endure for the sake of appearances.
Hi, my name is Rob, and I'm Googleable.
Re:I regret nothing! (Score:3, Funny)
Eh. (Score:2)
But assuming they're not an obvious asshole, I'd actually *prefer* employees who have a sense of fun and a life. I'd rather see a blog talking, side-by-side, about work and home life and parties - or e
Paranoia (Score:2)
Yep, clever people sometimes do stupid or "uneasy for everyone" things, but usually are sorry about that, so almost everyone forgives them, forgets that and life moves on. Beatles haven't lost nothing of their star power when they admitted they used stimulators while rock'n'rolling in Hamburg. And let's be clear - most people don't care HOW much you have been drunk in one party twe
too much fuss (Score:3, Insightful)
Saying, writing, opening up to the wide audience your stupidity, wierdness, incompetence, intolerance, ignorance, unability to filter private information from useless public stuff, bad spelling, lack of imagination, lack of social life, bad or lacking love life, low skills in problem solving, bad opinions about certain companies, lacking technical skills, etc. etc. and you'd still expect a decent company to hire you ?
Thing is, on this planet, you can always be certain that there does indeed exist at least one person that is dumber than you. So, all you have to do is find that person and convince him/her to hire you.
If you can't imagine that some things in your life should be kept private (I'm not talking about kinky habits or any disgusting behavior and such, just simple things) then I can't imagine you working with or for me.
Re:in general (Score:2)
The problem is when somebody else puts it on-line for you...
Reputations are forever... (Score:5, Interesting)
It isn't just the inappropriate pictures that will keep you from being employed. It's the evidence that you can't keep quiet about things, that you're not trustworthy, that you're not even very good with grammar and spelling (in the real world, spelling counts). Once upon a time you could move away from a bad reputation, or switch jobs to leave behind a bad experience or two. Now, with things like zabasearch and google hacks to track you down, youthful indescretion becomes a permanent and inescapable brand.
No second chances. Sad.
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:2)
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:2)
Perhaps. But it could just as easily go the other way, with people taking great pains to ensure that they (appear to) conform perfectly to some bland ideal for fear that they might be indelibly branded a "deviant", and thus the tyranny of the majority grows even stronger.
I'm not sure which is the more likely outcome.
Re:...So are Tatoos and piercings -for now (Score:2)
Seriously, it's a nice fantasy, but history does not support your suppositions. Also, what is this 'rise in body art in the last 15 years'? My impression is that there's been a decrease in that peri
Re:...So are Tatoos and piercings -for now (Score:2)
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:2)
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:2)
good thing the internet isn't the real world.
As someone who workds with top level managment, spelling doesn't really seem to count.
Re:Reputations are forever... (Score:2)
So you've only worked in the USA, then?
Re:Depends. (Score:2)
Re:Totally true (Score:2)
You need to prove it by telling us what company this is,and who are they are planning to merge with!
Re:Blogging and Inevitable Disclosure (Score:2)