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Bitcoin

Bitcoin Heads for Nearly 40% November Gain, Edging Closer to $100,000 (cnbc.com) 170

Posted by EditorDavid from the magic-internet-money dept.
November 5: Bitcoin's price reaches an all-time high of $74,200.

November 11: Bitcoin sets a new record of $84,000.

November 12: Bitcoin pushes past $90,000. And Friday, CNBC reported: Bitcoin is on pace to post a 38% gain for November, according to Coin Metrics, which would make the month its best since February, when it gained 45% following the launch of spot bitcoin ETFs... Bulls expect bitcoin's price to reach $100,000 by the end of 2024 and potentially double by the end of 2025.

Bitcoin Heads for Nearly 40% November Gain, Edging Closer to $100,000 More | Reply

Bitcoin Heads for Nearly 40% November Gain, Edging Closer to $100,000

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  • Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @05:02PM (#64981945)

    That is really all there is to that. Most humans are stupid. Exhibit 1: Crapcoins.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      The country elected a corrupt president who clearly intends to profit from crypto, along with his benefactors including vice president Leon Musk, who has manipulated crypto in the past. Pumping crypto is part of the plan, tech bros plan to get in on it.

      • Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @06:35PM (#64982183)

        I'm waiting for the inevitable blowup between them. Two massive narcissists can't occupy the same space that long. Rumors already say Elmo keeps tagging along and injecting himself into everything.

        • Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:4, Informative)

          by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @07:17PM (#64982255) Homepage

          I'm waiting for the inevitable blowup between them.

          Probably when the EV subsidies go away. Musk has publicly claimed he's against them, but I think when the rubber meets the road he's not going to be too pleased to see the drop in Tesla's sales numbers. He'll likely call Trump something rather unpleasant on Twitter, and that'll be that.

          • I'm waiting for the inevitable blowup between them.

            Probably when the EV subsidies go away. Musk has publicly claimed he's against them, but I think when the rubber meets the road he's not going to be too pleased to see the drop in Tesla's sales numbers. He'll likely call Trump something rather unpleasant on Twitter, and that'll be that.

            I think Musk expects ending the EV tax credits to boost Tesla's sales, not reduce them. His thinking is that Tesla is positioned to continue being profitable without the subsidies, but the competition is barely profitable or even losing money even with them, so ending the credits will push them out of the market, leaving Tesla the only EV manufacturer. If (and it's a big "if", but not impossible) that happens around the same time Tesla launches the first non-luxury-priced EV with decent range, a vehicle th

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by quall ( 1441799 )

        TDR is strong with this one XD

    • You might be right (and bitcoin is a ponzi) or you might be not (and bitcoin is here to stay). A very strong opinion like this might not be the best attitude...

      • Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @06:08PM (#64982097) Homepage

        You might be right (and bitcoin is a ponzi) or you might be not (and bitcoin is here to stay). A very strong opinion like this might not be the best attitude...

        The difficulty here is that bitcoin was originally touted as being a currency, and for the most part it isn't. It's an investment (in a vehicle that has no physical presence).

        To be a useful currency, it needs to stop increasing in price. If a currency keeps increasing in price, people who have it want to keep it, not circulate it.

        • You are right. Nowadays it's an "asset" (as they say) not a "currency". We need to adapt...
        • No one is going to buy and hold a bitcoin that isn't increasing in price. Which means, based on its past history, eventually this bubble will pop. Then as the price falls some people will try to take their profits by selling until the price falls below what they paid for it. Then they will stop selling and eventually the price will hit bottom where almost no one is willing to sell. Then the process will start all over again.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Shaitan ( 22585 )

          "To be a useful currency, it needs to stop increasing in price. If a currency keeps increasing in price, people who have it want to keep it, not circulate it."

          This is not true of currency but rather the argument for an inflationary currency. Inflationary currency devalues over time, thus the incentive to get rid of it and exchange it for things that don't. Deflationary currency has a perfectly good incentive... you can't eat, sex, or be entertained by your bitcoin. The greater the value grows the more tempt

          • Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:5, Insightful)

            by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @09:38PM (#64982427) Homepage
            Your comment is opposite to conventional economic thinking.

            If the value of currency is increasing, this is deflationary. Deflation is bad, because it means people hoard their currency instead of spending it, leading to less of it in circulation, leading to people hoarding it more.

            The whole point of currency is for it to be circulated. If the incentive is to hoard it rather than circulate it, it isn't currency.

            • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

              by Shaitan ( 22585 )

              No my comment explained conventional economic thinking and then successfully explained it was incorrect by illustrating how deflationary currency incentivizes people to spend it using greed [the innate human characteristic which drives all other time tested and scaled financial principals] rather than fear. I then explained WHY hoarding broke traditional deflationary currency [it meant there literally wasn't enough to circulate] and explained how BTC avoids this problem by being able to devalue AND multiply

            • Deflationary currencies are only bad if your economy is setup as a ponzi scheme. Line the USD, we are creating money out of thin air based on future expectations of growth. If the economy ever stops growing, everything collapses. This in turn means the USD is the primary motivation for overconsumption, environmental collapse, systemic bankruptcies, etc. Deflationary currencies don't have these problems.

              If you want to live in a world where people don't consume more and more out of some religious zeal, then d

        • The difficulty here is that bitcoin was originally touted as being a currency, and for the most part it isn't.

          If you do use it as currency, it comes with a bit of regret. If I had back the 0.5 BTC I spent on an Intel NUC at TigerDirect back in the day, today I'd have $48.3k.

          Damn, still not enough for a Cybertruck, though.

          • Yep. Back in 2015 I had about $5000 in it. It went up to something like $20,000 when I sold it. I wish I'd kept it and could dump it today.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
              Well you quadrupled your incestement ( - capital gains tax obv) I'd call that a win, and you weren't arround fir eventslike th musk talkshow dip,and the lack of agrevation might just have reduced the effectrs of stress.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by XXongo ( 3986865 )

            The difficulty here is that bitcoin was originally touted as being a currency, and for the most part it isn't.

            If you do use it as currency, it comes with a bit of regret. If I had back the 0.5 BTC I spent on an Intel NUC at TigerDirect back in the day, today I'd have $48.3k. Damn, still not enough for a Cybertruck, though.

            Yep. That's deflationary currency: you benefit from holding it rather than circulating it, so it stops being currency,.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cfalcon ( 779563 )

      Man you guys are really seething about bitcoin this year.

      lol

      • Sunk cost fallacy. In this case, it's opportunity cost, though. They're butthurt about being wrong and seeing so many people profit. So they have to double down and - instead of learning like a rational animal - keep screaming how it's all a ponzi scheme or whatever because it lets them assuage their misery and self anger.

  • Wait for the down 75% ... (Score:4)

    by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @05:28PM (#64981995)
    Up 40% in a month, great, but I'm waiting for the down 75% that occurs after massive runs up. They indicate safer entry points.

    • Depends what you mean by safer.

      Unlike most assets, it's usually a very good idea to buy Bitcoin when it reaches a new all time high after some time.

      For the reasons why, lookup up momentum investing.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drnb ( 2434720 )

        Depends what you mean by safer.

        Unlike most assets, it's usually a very good idea to buy Bitcoin when it reaches a new all time high after some time. For the reasons why, lookup up momentum investing.

        Bitcoin, consistently, experiences 75% drops after the big exponential run ups. Then it plateaus for a time. And does another run up. With this pattern, you are better off entering around the local minima not the local maxima.

  • The only think good about Crypto-scams is that it's a scam that mostly leaves people alone. It's mostly scammers scamming wannabe scammers.

    • Re:Golden era for scam artists (Score:5, Insightful)

      by isomer1 ( 749303 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @05:56PM (#64982061)
      Except that the GOP is planning for a bitcoin national reserve and they have the votes to push it through: https://www.forbes.com/sites/d... [forbes.com]

      • Just about the most moronic idea ever.

      • Except that the GOP is planning for a bitcoin national reserve and they have the votes to push it through

        Why bother? It would make far more sense to create a BTC clone called "USAcoin" for a national reserve, expect that all the coins would be pre-mined and owned by the federal government. Why try to compete in an ecosystem already dominated by criminals and foreign adversaries?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Shaitan ( 22585 )

          "Why try to compete in an ecosystem already dominated by criminals and foreign adversaries?"

          Who exactly is it you think the government needs to do trade with that isn't inclined to take money we can print at will?

          "It would make far more sense to create a BTC clone called "USAcoin" for a national reserve"

          Why would the rest of the world switch from the real and legitimate coin that isn't a premined scam to your shitcoin? They wouldn't. But the USD is already established and widely used globally, if the USD is

          • "Why try to compete in an ecosystem already dominated by criminals and foreign adversaries?"

            Who exactly is it you think the government needs to do trade with that isn't inclined to take money we can print at will?

            "It would make far more sense to create a BTC clone called "USAcoin" for a national reserve"

            Why would the rest of the world switch from the real and legitimate coin that isn't a premined scam to your shitcoin? They wouldn't. But the USD is already established and widely used globally, if the USD is backed by a BTC reserve then why switch from USD to BTC? [this argument served the US well RE: gold] and if the USD is backed by BTC then it can be argued that any gain in BTC use/value just makes the dollar stronger anyway. This is a no lose proposition.

            Meanwhile if the dollar competes with BTC... it certainly will continue to win short term but long term but those adversaries sure like being able to bypass US sanctions and even our allies like the idea of a neutral currency better than being beholden to the USD. Let's the chance in 1 in 10,000 that BTC overtakes the dollar 40-50yrs down the road. Why risk that when you have a no lose proposition?

            No one is switching to BTC, BTC isn't a viable currency, it's a asset, except it's an asset that's incredibly hard to securely store.

            All we're seeing is a bunch of rich tech leaders who invested heavily in Bitcoin, and now they're lobbying the easily lobbied Trump in order to boost their investment.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Shaitan ( 22585 )

              BTC is a perfectly viable currency which is why many places use BTC and some have switched. You are spreading misinformation based on some early limitations (slow transactions, limited block size, etc). Lightning solved these issues. That said, lightning isn't perfect and if you are more privacy focused you might want to use BTC [more stable, secure, established] for your long term store of value and something like monero [privacy coin] for day-to-day transactions.

              Nation states transact billions to bypass U

              • BTC is a perfectly viable currency which is why many places use BTC and some have switched. You are spreading misinformation based on some early limitations (slow transactions, limited block size, etc). Lightning solved these issues. That said, lightning isn't perfect and if you are more privacy focused you might want to use BTC [more stable, secure, established] for your long term store of value and something like monero [privacy coin] for day-to-day transactions.

                Nation states transact billions to bypass US sanctions and financial controls. Several nations have officially or unofficially accepted BTC as legal currency Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Cuba, and Greece are among them.

                Remember, even people who are playing with shitcoins are generally backing their shitcoin schemes with BTC somewhere in the chain.

                Considering the BTC lobby if Lightening solved the issues I'd expect a more optimistic/better maintained wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org].

                Anyway, as cash it still sucks. The only advantage BTC has as a "currency' is fewer controls, bank fees, etc. But the reason for that overhead isn't cash, but handling fraud, payment reversals, etc, etc. There's nothing fundamentally better about BTC as a general purpose currency. You add those features and it will be at least as expensive as regular banking. Ignore those features and it'

        • You don't seem to understand what reserves are.

          For a country with it's own currency, that currency is worthless for it's reserves. It's only useful to hold reserves in currencies you can't print at a whim.

      • No. They’re not “planning” for it. They’re “talking” about it. And when I say “they” I mean Trump and his posse. They also talk about 100% tarifs, outlawing birth control, bombing mexico, dumping NATO, and about a hundred other insane ideas. And then, tomorrow, it’s a hundred fresh new insane ideas.

        This is a deliberate strategy. Bannon called it “flooding the zone with sh&t”. That’s an accurate quote. Trump sees it as deliberate
    • You sound like the fox that found the grapes "sour"...

    • There are plenty of secondary effects. Texas has to pay Bitcoin miners not to mine during peak power usage times because there isn't enough power to go around. We are adding a lot of power plants without much thought on growth because the big money wants the juice for data centers.

      The focus on mining means that other things could be invested in, but are not, meaning a starvation of cash with startups. Without startups, there won't be jobs available.

      Then, there is the fact that right now, Bitcoin's crypto

  • Investment vs currency (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bandraginus ( 901166 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @05:50PM (#64982043)

    Can somebody please inform me on something.

    The people investing in bitcoin do so because they claim it has utility. Because if it had no utility then it would be 100% pyramid scam. And the utility they point to is as a currency of exchange.

    When the value goes up by 38% in a month, it destroys its value as a currency, because the number one attribute of a currency is stability (sorry dude, your 1bc won't buy you that pizza because the price went up by 20% overnight).

    So it seems to me that these are at polar odds with each other. Crypto-currencies can't be BOTH an investment and an exchange currency.

    Am I off the mark here?

    • You are not wrong. I was a bitcoin believer in the beginning (believing that it was an excelent new form of money), but these days bitcoin looks more and more like a ponzi (depending on new buyers to increase the price). Mind you, it's the same with the stocks these days - few people buy company shares because they believe the company has a good business plan and will grow, most buy in the hope to be able sell to a bigger fool later. Who wants to work and create value when we can just click here click there

      • Mind you, it's the same with the stocks these days - few people buy company shares because they believe the company has a good business plan and will grow, most buy in the hope to be able sell to a bigger fool later.

        No, it's not the same.

        When the same idiot buys Bitcoin and GME, that doesn't make stocks like crypto, it doesn't mean few people invest correctly, it just means the people in your circle are idiots and you need to stop looking for investing advice on Reddit.

        • You are correct, it's not quite the same. The stocks, supposedly, have value because they hold properties, for example. Still, the vast majority of "investors" don't care, they only care about the STOCK PRICE. Or do you disagree?

          • Stocks have value because the underlying company makes money or is expected to make money, which makes the company valuable if someone were to buy it, which makes your tiny share of the company valuable. What makes a company valuable could be the property they own, like if it's a REIT collecting rent, or if you think they could realistically sell that property, but no a company isn't valued by the property they own, it's usually the money they make. I mean how would you value your cousin's lemonade stand, h

    • Re:Investment vs currency (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @06:15PM (#64982121) Homepage

      Bitcoin is functionally equivalent to a myriad of other shitcoins which all do basically the same thing. Granted, Bitcoin's large market cap means more money can be moved in and out of Bitcoin before you start to create massive fluctuations in its value, but the same thing would be true if everyone decided to migrate over to some other cryptocurrency.

      So no, there's not really any utility that's unique to Bitcoin, it's just people speculating in the collective belief that they'll be able to turn around and sell it to the next sucker for more than they paid for it.

      • Bitcoin is functionally equivalent to a myriad of other shitcoins ...

        Bitcoin is the original shitcoin. Full stop.

      • Oh, here you are wrong... there is a utility unique to bitcoin. You can take it out of the country without anybody noticing (try that with gold or bank notes). It might not be useful to you, but it can be useful to tens of millions of others.
    • Years ago, in our business, we used BTC as a currency; now we're using USDT. One concrete example: we're in the EU, and we have a programmer in Kenya. It's complex and slow to wire him his wages through the regular banking system, and we've been paying him with crypto all along. It's simple, fast, easy. For some, it's an investment because they want to speculate, but it still remains one of the best way to transfer value to countries which are not connected with us when it comes to banking. Just because we

    • Can somebody please inform me on something.

      The people investing in bitcoin do so because they claim it has utility. .

      Actually, here in the USA, a lot of the investing is for a much sadder reason. Americans simply don't save for retirement, so a good chunk of the investing in bitcoin is an attempt by people who save little or nothing to suddenly get retirement money and to make up for the lack of saving discipline. I'm Gen X and a few of my high school classmates have already retired. Many still work. I get the impression that a lot of the ones still working have little or no savings for retirement. I have a good

  • So what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timholman ( 71886 ) on Saturday November 30, 2024 @06:10PM (#64982111)

    I don't care if BTC hits $100,000 or $10,000,000. As a deflationary currency by design, with about 95% of all coins already mined, BTC has devolved into a giant global roulette game, except that a roulette game in Las Vegas is more honest.

    No one pretends any longer that BTC will ever be used as money. It's now an "investment", but one that consists strictly of transferring money from someone else's pocket into yours. Not a dollar comes out of the Bitcoin ecosystem that wasn't put into it by someone else. You'll only get rich from cryptocurrency by making someone else poor.

    The people who lose their shirts "investing" in BTC will have no one to blame but themselves, and the whales who are manipulating the BTC market will be laughing all the way to the bank.

    • I don't care if BTC hits $100,000 or $10,000,000.

      Ahh, you do! If you didn't, you wouldn't be commenting here.

      • I don't care if BTC hits $100,000 or $10,000,000.
        Ahh, you do! If you didn't, you wouldn't be commenting here.

        Non sequitur.

    • LN bros still think it can be used as a currency.

  • And yet still no cryptocurrency story filter [slashdot.org] made available. Still want to claim you don't have a vested interest [slashdot.org], Slashdot staff?

  • Is expected to massively deregulate what little regulation there is on cryptocurrency. If you are not extraordinarily wealthy this is bad news.

    So what we are likely to see in the next 4 years are mortgage-backed securities similar to what crashed the economy in 2008 only swap out mortgages and replace it with cryptocurrency.

    If you think the last crash was bad imagine how bad it would be if at the bottom of that crash there was nothing like a house but just pretend money.

    And because our voting sy

    • There's an echo in here.

    • Smells like used hot dog water that's been left out in the sun to ferment.

      Is that a Limp Bizkit reference?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shanen ( 462549 )

      The Funny mod was for the closing or an attempt to censor you? Only joke for the target-rich story?

      Obligatory citation to Going Infinite by Michael Lewis. I'll bet dollars to Bitcoins it hasn't been mentioned in the discussion. Maybe After the Empire by Emmanuel Todd should also be considered?

  • The irony of this latest tulip craze is not lost on those of us who studied economics.
  • Can we maybe stop letting animals like this build economic time-bombs every single fucking decade?

  • Musical chairs for the gullible. But it could last a long time.

  • "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

    Increasingly true. People have lost their fucking minds and the market reflects it. Demanding that your version of rationality reassert itself is unreasonable.

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