Bitcoin Heads for Nearly 40% November Gain, Edging Closer to $100,000 (cnbc.com) 170
November 5: Bitcoin's price reaches an all-time high of $74,200.
November 11: Bitcoin sets a new record of $84,000.
November 12: Bitcoin pushes past $90,000. And Friday, CNBC reported: Bitcoin is on pace to post a 38% gain for November, according to Coin Metrics, which would make the month its best since February, when it gained 45% following the launch of spot bitcoin ETFs... Bulls expect bitcoin's price to reach $100,000 by the end of 2024 and potentially double by the end of 2025.
November 11: Bitcoin sets a new record of $84,000.
November 12: Bitcoin pushes past $90,000. And Friday, CNBC reported: Bitcoin is on pace to post a 38% gain for November, according to Coin Metrics, which would make the month its best since February, when it gained 45% following the launch of spot bitcoin ETFs... Bulls expect bitcoin's price to reach $100,000 by the end of 2024 and potentially double by the end of 2025.
Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:4, Insightful)
That is really all there is to that. Most humans are stupid. Exhibit 1: Crapcoins.
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The country elected a corrupt president who clearly intends to profit from crypto, along with his benefactors including vice president Leon Musk, who has manipulated crypto in the past. Pumping crypto is part of the plan, tech bros plan to get in on it.
Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm waiting for the inevitable blowup between them. Two massive narcissists can't occupy the same space that long. Rumors already say Elmo keeps tagging along and injecting himself into everything.
Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:4, Informative)
I'm waiting for the inevitable blowup between them.
Probably when the EV subsidies go away. Musk has publicly claimed he's against them, but I think when the rubber meets the road he's not going to be too pleased to see the drop in Tesla's sales numbers. He'll likely call Trump something rather unpleasant on Twitter, and that'll be that.
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I'm waiting for the inevitable blowup between them.
Probably when the EV subsidies go away. Musk has publicly claimed he's against them, but I think when the rubber meets the road he's not going to be too pleased to see the drop in Tesla's sales numbers. He'll likely call Trump something rather unpleasant on Twitter, and that'll be that.
I think Musk expects ending the EV tax credits to boost Tesla's sales, not reduce them. His thinking is that Tesla is positioned to continue being profitable without the subsidies, but the competition is barely profitable or even losing money even with them, so ending the credits will push them out of the market, leaving Tesla the only EV manufacturer. If (and it's a big "if", but not impossible) that happens around the same time Tesla launches the first non-luxury-priced EV with decent range, a vehicle th
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TDR is strong with this one XD
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Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:5, Insightful)
You might be right (and bitcoin is a ponzi) or you might be not (and bitcoin is here to stay). A very strong opinion like this might not be the best attitude...
The difficulty here is that bitcoin was originally touted as being a currency, and for the most part it isn't. It's an investment (in a vehicle that has no physical presence).
To be a useful currency, it needs to stop increasing in price. If a currency keeps increasing in price, people who have it want to keep it, not circulate it.
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Re: Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:2)
Lightning is Bitcoin. You just demonstrated clearly how Bitcoin is a currency.
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I'm just curious how much of this is due to wash trading. Bob buys Alice's currency for a higher amount, but in reality, Bob and Alice are the same entity.
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Re: Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:2)
Why does that matter?
I mean wash trading is just smart tax management. I'm doing some wash trades later this year to incur some low taxes and reset my cost basis.
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"To be a useful currency, it needs to stop increasing in price. If a currency keeps increasing in price, people who have it want to keep it, not circulate it."
This is not true of currency but rather the argument for an inflationary currency. Inflationary currency devalues over time, thus the incentive to get rid of it and exchange it for things that don't. Deflationary currency has a perfectly good incentive... you can't eat, sex, or be entertained by your bitcoin. The greater the value grows the more tempt
Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:5, Insightful)
If the value of currency is increasing, this is deflationary. Deflation is bad, because it means people hoard their currency instead of spending it, leading to less of it in circulation, leading to people hoarding it more.
The whole point of currency is for it to be circulated. If the incentive is to hoard it rather than circulate it, it isn't currency.
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No my comment explained conventional economic thinking and then successfully explained it was incorrect by illustrating how deflationary currency incentivizes people to spend it using greed [the innate human characteristic which drives all other time tested and scaled financial principals] rather than fear. I then explained WHY hoarding broke traditional deflationary currency [it meant there literally wasn't enough to circulate] and explained how BTC avoids this problem by being able to devalue AND multiply
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Re: Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:2)
Deflationary currencies are only bad if your economy is setup as a ponzi scheme. Line the USD, we are creating money out of thin air based on future expectations of growth. If the economy ever stops growing, everything collapses. This in turn means the USD is the primary motivation for overconsumption, environmental collapse, systemic bankruptcies, etc. Deflationary currencies don't have these problems.
If you want to live in a world where people don't consume more and more out of some religious zeal, then d
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The difficulty here is that bitcoin was originally touted as being a currency, and for the most part it isn't.
If you do use it as currency, it comes with a bit of regret. If I had back the 0.5 BTC I spent on an Intel NUC at TigerDirect back in the day, today I'd have $48.3k.
Damn, still not enough for a Cybertruck, though.
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The difficulty here is that bitcoin was originally touted as being a currency, and for the most part it isn't.
If you do use it as currency, it comes with a bit of regret. If I had back the 0.5 BTC I spent on an Intel NUC at TigerDirect back in the day, today I'd have $48.3k. Damn, still not enough for a Cybertruck, though.
Yep. That's deflationary currency: you benefit from holding it rather than circulating it, so it stops being currency,.
Re: Not a great condition to apply to currency... (Score:2)
Many people think the point of a currency is to generate waste. They believe the more waste you can generate in spending, the better the currency. Other forms of exchange that don't promote waste, they view as something other than currencies.
If you're not destroying the planet with overconsumption, you're not contributing to what these people think of as the economy.
Deflation, inflation: both undesirable (Score:3)
To be a useful currency, it needs to stop increasing in price.
Wouldn't the corollary be that in order for the US dollar to be a "useful" currency it needs to stop DECREASING in value?
Correct, currencies are most useful as currency (that is, a medium of trade) when they are stable in price. When a currency is inflating, however, the opposite occurs: people attempt to spend it rather than hold it. This increases the velocity of money, which is effectively equivalent to increasing the amount of currency in the system, which is also bad.
The US dollar has lost about 99% of purchasing power since inception. Bitcoin is no more or less ridiculous.
Inflated by 100X over the course of 230 years? That translates to an average change of 2 percent per year. That's remarkably stable.
Bitcoin first traded a
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Man you guys are really seething about bitcoin this year.
lol
Re: Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:2)
Sunk cost fallacy. In this case, it's opportunity cost, though. They're butthurt about being wrong and seeing so many people profit. So they have to double down and - instead of learning like a rational animal - keep screaming how it's all a ponzi scheme or whatever because it lets them assuage their misery and self anger.
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Oh, so you were one of the first suckers. You must be so proud.
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If you sold your bitcoin for a profit you sure as shit aren't a sucker.
Cope and seethe I guess.
Re:Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:5, Insightful)
Since bitcoin is unregulated, and since bitcoin is everywhere, bitcoin is literally the work around to things like sanctions and tariffs, as well as criminal enterprises shifting money around.
So, when the world is in a state of disruption, disorder, and chaos, bitcoin will thrive.
And lets be clear here, people do benefit, but the worst part of this is that the rich get around the sanctions meant to pressure a country, without issue. While their citizens suffer their misdeeds at both home, and abroad.
If you own bitcoin at this time, and wish to steal back money from the rich, the best thing to do is to literally sell all your inventory, and take their money from them.
But hey, thats just for people with morals.
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There's nothing immoral about buying low and selling high.
Good cope though- "everyone who did this better than me even slightly is evil"
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There's nothing immoral about buying low and selling high.
No, buying low and selling high is fine, in and of itself. But where do you draw the line? "I bought these coal futures for cheap and now I'm selling them for a profit!"
"I bought the patent for this life-saving medication and now I'm selling the drug for 10x its former price!"
Or, consider what the product is for: "I am making a fortune from my shares in this landmine manufacturer!"
Or, more specifically to bitcoin, one should consider the carbon footprint of the network, or the fact that the main use of it s
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Depends on what you buy low and sell high and how much damage that does. Obviously, for crapcoins, this is hugely immoral, no matter how much assholes like you deny that.
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Perhaps. But surely there's something immoral about knowingly participating in - and profiting from - a pyramid scheme.
As opposed to.....? (Score:2)
Ah, fantastic. Slashdotters giving financial advice on Bitcoin.
Oh right, because having a bunch of toxic tech bros take over the financial system from the toxic Wall St. bros [slashdot.org] is so much better.... not!
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so glad i got in early.
Thank you for reminding us yet again how profitable it would be to own a time machine.
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Getting in early is the whole point, which means that the higher the price goes up the more likely it is to go down again.
People invest in bitcoin because they want the 1000% gains of old. Nobody invests in bitcoin to get a 6% return over a year, because of the volatility and lack of actual uses for it.
But the higher the price gets the smaller the eventual gains are going to be before it goes down again and the greater fools have to be the really foolish fools at the very thin end of the fool-bell curve and
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"But the higher the price gets the smaller the eventual gains are going to be before it goes down again"
Aka the less volatile.
"lack of actual uses for it"
This isn't a real thing.
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"Aka the less volatile."
More like: Likelier to drop in value in a volitile way
I expect value might stay high until after trump does his bitcoin reserve thing, which might lead to another jump in value, but after that there's not much more to look forward to for bitcloin unless trump gives everyone another stimulous. The economy right now is doing very well, people have money to spend on stupid crap. But that won't be the case forever and when a recession comes along people will need to sell, there will be i
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"I expect value might stay high until after trump does his bitcoin reserve thing, which might lead to another jump in value, but after that there's not much more to look forward to for bitcloin unless trump gives everyone another stimulous."
That's because of this false belief:
"lack of actual uses for it"
"The economy right now is doing very well, people have money to spend on stupid crap."
The fact that you make this statement during the worst white collar recession with the highest credit delinquency rates i
Re: Ah yes, the glorious tales of ealy coiners! (Score:2)
Butthurt much?
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Feb 2025 seems rather optimistic to me but will we eventually see a $250k bitcoin? Sure. Seems more realistic at 10yrs with more and more nations with unstable economies shifting to BTC.
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People tried using BTC as a currency. Turns out it is completely unsuitable for that. And that was in times of less volatility than now.
Re: Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:2)
People regularly use Bitcoin as a currency by utilizing second layer solutions like the Lightning Network.
You are correct that the naive usage of the original out-of-the-box Bitcoin core software leads to too many fees and delays to be used as a currency in many situations. But no one's forcing you to use Bitcoin in that naive way.
Re: Quick! Need to suck in more idiots! (Score:2)
Bitcoin does not require tons of electricity to work. The amount of electricity that will be consumed is a function of how much the Bitcoin is worth and the cost of electricity.
If the price of electricity is constant and the price of Bitcoin rises, then the amount of electricity used will increase.
If the price of Bitcoin is constant and the amount of electricity generated by the grid remains the same, the price of electricity will go up.
Now, there's a kernel of truth to what you said, though. Bitcoin has a
Wait for the down 75% ... (Score:4)
Re: Wait for the down 75% ... (Score:2)
Depends what you mean by safer.
Unlike most assets, it's usually a very good idea to buy Bitcoin when it reaches a new all time high after some time.
For the reasons why, lookup up momentum investing.
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Depends what you mean by safer.
Unlike most assets, it's usually a very good idea to buy Bitcoin when it reaches a new all time high after some time. For the reasons why, lookup up momentum investing.
Bitcoin, consistently, experiences 75% drops after the big exponential run ups. Then it plateaus for a time. And does another run up. With this pattern, you are better off entering around the local minima not the local maxima.
Golden era for scam artists (Score:2)
The only think good about Crypto-scams is that it's a scam that mostly leaves people alone. It's mostly scammers scamming wannabe scammers.
Re:Golden era for scam artists (Score:5, Insightful)
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Just about the most moronic idea ever.
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And he’s not even the president yet.
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Why bother? It would make far more sense to create a BTC clone called "USAcoin" for a national reserve, expect that all the coins would be pre-mined and owned by the federal government. Why try to compete in an ecosystem already dominated by criminals and foreign adversaries?
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"Why try to compete in an ecosystem already dominated by criminals and foreign adversaries?"
Who exactly is it you think the government needs to do trade with that isn't inclined to take money we can print at will?
"It would make far more sense to create a BTC clone called "USAcoin" for a national reserve"
Why would the rest of the world switch from the real and legitimate coin that isn't a premined scam to your shitcoin? They wouldn't. But the USD is already established and widely used globally, if the USD is
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"Why try to compete in an ecosystem already dominated by criminals and foreign adversaries?"
Who exactly is it you think the government needs to do trade with that isn't inclined to take money we can print at will?
"It would make far more sense to create a BTC clone called "USAcoin" for a national reserve"
Why would the rest of the world switch from the real and legitimate coin that isn't a premined scam to your shitcoin? They wouldn't. But the USD is already established and widely used globally, if the USD is backed by a BTC reserve then why switch from USD to BTC? [this argument served the US well RE: gold] and if the USD is backed by BTC then it can be argued that any gain in BTC use/value just makes the dollar stronger anyway. This is a no lose proposition.
Meanwhile if the dollar competes with BTC... it certainly will continue to win short term but long term but those adversaries sure like being able to bypass US sanctions and even our allies like the idea of a neutral currency better than being beholden to the USD. Let's the chance in 1 in 10,000 that BTC overtakes the dollar 40-50yrs down the road. Why risk that when you have a no lose proposition?
No one is switching to BTC, BTC isn't a viable currency, it's a asset, except it's an asset that's incredibly hard to securely store.
All we're seeing is a bunch of rich tech leaders who invested heavily in Bitcoin, and now they're lobbying the easily lobbied Trump in order to boost their investment.
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BTC is a perfectly viable currency which is why many places use BTC and some have switched. You are spreading misinformation based on some early limitations (slow transactions, limited block size, etc). Lightning solved these issues. That said, lightning isn't perfect and if you are more privacy focused you might want to use BTC [more stable, secure, established] for your long term store of value and something like monero [privacy coin] for day-to-day transactions.
Nation states transact billions to bypass U
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BTC is a perfectly viable currency which is why many places use BTC and some have switched. You are spreading misinformation based on some early limitations (slow transactions, limited block size, etc). Lightning solved these issues. That said, lightning isn't perfect and if you are more privacy focused you might want to use BTC [more stable, secure, established] for your long term store of value and something like monero [privacy coin] for day-to-day transactions.
Nation states transact billions to bypass US sanctions and financial controls. Several nations have officially or unofficially accepted BTC as legal currency Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Cuba, and Greece are among them.
Remember, even people who are playing with shitcoins are generally backing their shitcoin schemes with BTC somewhere in the chain.
Considering the BTC lobby if Lightening solved the issues I'd expect a more optimistic/better maintained wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org].
Anyway, as cash it still sucks. The only advantage BTC has as a "currency' is fewer controls, bank fees, etc. But the reason for that overhead isn't cash, but handling fraud, payment reversals, etc, etc. There's nothing fundamentally better about BTC as a general purpose currency. You add those features and it will be at least as expensive as regular banking. Ignore those features and it'
Re: Golden era for scam artists (Score:2)
Deflationary currencies are only bad if you use them as a national currency. Otherwise, they have a long history of utility. Krugerrands have been in use since the 60s, for example.
Re: Golden era for scam artists (Score:2)
You don't seem to understand what reserves are.
For a country with it's own currency, that currency is worthless for it's reserves. It's only useful to hold reserves in currencies you can't print at a whim.
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This is a deliberate strategy. Bannon called it “flooding the zone with sh&t”. That’s an accurate quote. Trump sees it as deliberate
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There are plenty of secondary effects. Texas has to pay Bitcoin miners not to mine during peak power usage times because there isn't enough power to go around. We are adding a lot of power plants without much thought on growth because the big money wants the juice for data centers.
The focus on mining means that other things could be invested in, but are not, meaning a starvation of cash with startups. Without startups, there won't be jobs available.
Then, there is the fact that right now, Bitcoin's crypto
Investment vs currency (Score:5, Insightful)
Can somebody please inform me on something.
The people investing in bitcoin do so because they claim it has utility. Because if it had no utility then it would be 100% pyramid scam. And the utility they point to is as a currency of exchange.
When the value goes up by 38% in a month, it destroys its value as a currency, because the number one attribute of a currency is stability (sorry dude, your 1bc won't buy you that pizza because the price went up by 20% overnight).
So it seems to me that these are at polar odds with each other. Crypto-currencies can't be BOTH an investment and an exchange currency.
Am I off the mark here?
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Re: Investment vs currency (Score:2)
Mind you, it's the same with the stocks these days - few people buy company shares because they believe the company has a good business plan and will grow, most buy in the hope to be able sell to a bigger fool later.
No, it's not the same.
When the same idiot buys Bitcoin and GME, that doesn't make stocks like crypto, it doesn't mean few people invest correctly, it just means the people in your circle are idiots and you need to stop looking for investing advice on Reddit.
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Re: Investment vs currency (Score:2)
Stocks have value because the underlying company makes money or is expected to make money, which makes the company valuable if someone were to buy it, which makes your tiny share of the company valuable. What makes a company valuable could be the property they own, like if it's a REIT collecting rent, or if you think they could realistically sell that property, but no a company isn't valued by the property they own, it's usually the money they make. I mean how would you value your cousin's lemonade stand, h
Re:Investment vs currency (Score:5, Insightful)
Bitcoin is functionally equivalent to a myriad of other shitcoins which all do basically the same thing. Granted, Bitcoin's large market cap means more money can be moved in and out of Bitcoin before you start to create massive fluctuations in its value, but the same thing would be true if everyone decided to migrate over to some other cryptocurrency.
So no, there's not really any utility that's unique to Bitcoin, it's just people speculating in the collective belief that they'll be able to turn around and sell it to the next sucker for more than they paid for it.
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Bitcoin is functionally equivalent to a myriad of other shitcoins ...
Bitcoin is the original shitcoin. Full stop.
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That the best you got troll?
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Can somebody please inform me on something.
The people investing in bitcoin do so because they claim it has utility. .
Actually, here in the USA, a lot of the investing is for a much sadder reason. Americans simply don't save for retirement, so a good chunk of the investing in bitcoin is an attempt by people who save little or nothing to suddenly get retirement money and to make up for the lack of saving discipline. I'm Gen X and a few of my high school classmates have already retired. Many still work. I get the impression that a lot of the ones still working have little or no savings for retirement. I have a good
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No country still uses the gold standard. Switzerland was the last country to abandon it (back in 1999). Not arguing for or against the merits of the gold standard, but just pointing out that officially there's 0 countries.
There may be countries that still use it unofficially, but I would wager that it's still in use because it's more stable than the local currency. Hence my argument: what you want out of a currency is stability.
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't care if BTC hits $100,000 or $10,000,000. As a deflationary currency by design, with about 95% of all coins already mined, BTC has devolved into a giant global roulette game, except that a roulette game in Las Vegas is more honest.
No one pretends any longer that BTC will ever be used as money. It's now an "investment", but one that consists strictly of transferring money from someone else's pocket into yours. Not a dollar comes out of the Bitcoin ecosystem that wasn't put into it by someone else. You'll only get rich from cryptocurrency by making someone else poor.
The people who lose their shirts "investing" in BTC will have no one to blame but themselves, and the whales who are manipulating the BTC market will be laughing all the way to the bank.
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Ahh, you do! If you didn't, you wouldn't be commenting here.
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I don't care if BTC hits $100,000 or $10,000,000.
Ahh, you do! If you didn't, you wouldn't be commenting here.
Non sequitur.
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LN bros still think it can be used as a currency.
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Maybe the problem isn't cryptocurrency but rather "banks gambling". But hey if it takes you down then maybe it won't be so bad.
Oh look! Another Bitcoin story! (Score:2)
And yet still no cryptocurrency story filter [slashdot.org] made available. Still want to claim you don't have a vested interest [slashdot.org], Slashdot staff?
So this is because Trump (Score:2, Funny)
So what we are likely to see in the next 4 years are mortgage-backed securities similar to what crashed the economy in 2008 only swap out mortgages and replace it with cryptocurrency.
If you think the last crash was bad imagine how bad it would be if at the bottom of that crash there was nothing like a house but just pretend money.
And because our voting sy
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There's an echo in here.
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Smells like used hot dog water that's been left out in the sun to ferment.
Is that a Limp Bizkit reference?
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The Funny mod was for the closing or an attempt to censor you? Only joke for the target-rich story?
Obligatory citation to Going Infinite by Michael Lewis. I'll bet dollars to Bitcoins it hasn't been mentioned in the discussion. Maybe After the Empire by Emmanuel Todd should also be considered?
At least tulips are pretty (Score:2)
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Yum, sounds bubblicious. (Score:2)
musical (Score:2)
Musical chairs for the gullible. But it could last a long time.
Old quote (Score:2)
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."
Increasingly true. People have lost their fucking minds and the market reflects it. Demanding that your version of rationality reassert itself is unreasonable.
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This is a dream of people that have absolutely no understanding of real human beings.
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As long as people still value Bitcoins in dollars, we should be all right. Now, if we start having stuff valued in BTC, the yaun, or rials, or roubles, then we should really worry.
Of course, there is always valuing BTC to how much gold it can buy per unit as well, as gold is pretty much a Bog standard across the board.
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We value BTC relative to all those things.
Re: Tariff free (Score:2)
Well they're doing a shite job crashing the dollar. It keeps getting stronger.
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And they are likely to crash the US Dollar and also crash the value of "wealth" hoarded in electronic coins.
Unlikely. If the dollar falls, capital will go elsewhere.
T-bills won't be a safe haven since they're denominated in dollars, and the interest rate will be low (otherwise, the dollar wouldn't crash).
No other currency can absorb the inflow, and trade wars hurt everyone but tend to harm small countries more.
So that leaves gold and crypto.
Crypto is rising now in anticipation of a destructive trade war.
Gold is near a record high.
I'm investing in canned beans.
Re: Crypto value (Score:2)
1. The same thing that backs all modern currencies: the belief that someone else will find this thing valuable in the future. That belief can be generated in several ways.
One way is to spend $trillions on weapons and training and use the power of military force, large scale imprisonment, and racketeering to force people to use your made-up currency. This is the traditional approach.
Another way is to use math to convince others of the value of your currency. That's the Bitcoin approach.
But in the end, the ac
Re: Could we please stop? (Score:2)
Fractional reserve banking, inflationary currencies, and government policies to promote economic activity have caused way more environmental damage than Bitcoin ever will.
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Could we please stop pretending that this is somehow "news"?
Sorry to break it to you, but that'll never happen here on Slashdot, for obvious reasons. [slashdot.org]