Russia Threatens Suspending Space Station Cooperation Over Sanctions (engadget.com) 95
"Russia's Roscosmos will stop working with NASA and other western space agencies on the International Space Station," reports Engadget:
On early Saturday morning, Roscosmos director Dmitry Rogozin slammed international sanctions against Russia and said normal cooperation between the space agency and its western counterparts would only be possible after they were lifted.... Rogozin said Roscosmos would submit proposals on ending its work with NASA and other international space agencies to Russian authorities.
It's unclear how the decision would affect the space station. The ISS is not owned by any single country. The US, European Union, Russia, Canada and Japan operate the station through a cooperative agreement between the countries. Roscosmos, however, is critical to the ISS. The Russian Orbital Segment handles guidance control for the entire station....
The ISS isn't the first joint space program to see its future thrown into uncertainty due to rising tensions between the West and Russia. In March, Roscosmos said it would not ferry OneWeb's internet satellites to space until the UK government sold its stake in the company. That same month, the European Space Agency announced it was suspending its joint ExoMars mission with Roscosmos.
But in the middle of all this, "There are currently seven astronauts onboard the ISS — three Russian cosmonauts, three NASA astronauts and one German-born ESA astronaut, Matthias Maurer..." reports UPI: The three Russian cosmonauts are Sergey Korsakov, Oleg Artemyev and Denis Matveev. It was not immediately clear how the suspension of cooperation would impact the cosmonauts at the ISS.
Artemyev has expressed support for Russia and its decision to invade Ukraine in a statement made last month after he boarded the space station in a yellow and blue uniform, the colors of the Ukrainian flag. "There is no need to look for secret signs and symbols in our uniform. Color is just color," he said. "Despite the fact that we are in space, we are together with our president and people!"
It's unclear how the decision would affect the space station. The ISS is not owned by any single country. The US, European Union, Russia, Canada and Japan operate the station through a cooperative agreement between the countries. Roscosmos, however, is critical to the ISS. The Russian Orbital Segment handles guidance control for the entire station....
The ISS isn't the first joint space program to see its future thrown into uncertainty due to rising tensions between the West and Russia. In March, Roscosmos said it would not ferry OneWeb's internet satellites to space until the UK government sold its stake in the company. That same month, the European Space Agency announced it was suspending its joint ExoMars mission with Roscosmos.
But in the middle of all this, "There are currently seven astronauts onboard the ISS — three Russian cosmonauts, three NASA astronauts and one German-born ESA astronaut, Matthias Maurer..." reports UPI: The three Russian cosmonauts are Sergey Korsakov, Oleg Artemyev and Denis Matveev. It was not immediately clear how the suspension of cooperation would impact the cosmonauts at the ISS.
Artemyev has expressed support for Russia and its decision to invade Ukraine in a statement made last month after he boarded the space station in a yellow and blue uniform, the colors of the Ukrainian flag. "There is no need to look for secret signs and symbols in our uniform. Color is just color," he said. "Despite the fact that we are in space, we are together with our president and people!"
Introduction to Realpolitik (Score:1)
I'd hate for anything to happen to the people on the space station, but when push comes to shove, letting Russia turn it into a hostage situation should be a non-starter.
Too bad the US outsourced its formerly world-leading heavy launch capacity to scumbags, but it's a little late now for regrets.
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Too bad the US outsourced its formerly world-leading heavy launch capacity to scumbags, but it's a little late now for regrets.
You mean things aren't going to plan?
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Too bad the US outsourced its formerly world-leading heavy launch capacity to scumbags, but it's a little late now for regrets.
You mean things aren't going to plan?
Whatever he means, it's wrong. We have working launch capability.
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Jesus christ dude, It literally says he's from a country. "German born".
He's an ESA astronaut, thats a pan european agency. So it needs to be said where he comes from, Germany. And they did;- "German Born".
And for reference, theres no such thing "NWO media". I'm fairly sure when the Soviet Union died, whatever the John Birch society meant by "New World Order" (a shady russian conspiracy to take over the world, although
Re: Introduction to Realpolitik (Score:1)
It is weird, unless he has a more relevant citizenship. Maybe we're progressing towards 'assigned German' lingo, borrowed from gender nonsense?
Re: Introduction to Realpolitik (Score:2)
No. Stop feeding the troll. Matthias Maurer is German-born and a German citizen.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
He's an ESA astronaut, because the point of ESA is that it's pan-European. When he's in space he's not representing Germany, he's representing Europe and the ESA.
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SpaceX’s Crew Dragon capsule swaps docking ports on space station [spaceflightnow.com]. Crew Dragon can autonomously dock with the space station - no robotic arms involved.
Maybe you're thinking of Dragon 1, which was pulled into the station by Canadarm2? However - as implied by the name - it's made by Canada, nothing to do with Russia.
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Maybe you're thinking of Dragon 1, which was pulled into the station by Canadarm2? However - as implied by the name - it's made by Canada, nothing to do with Russia.
But what module is the arm attached to? If its attached to the Russian module it may not matter who made it.
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Maybe you're thinking of Dragon 1, which was pulled into the station by Canadarm2? However - as implied by the name - it's made by Canada, nothing to do with Russia.
Or the Cygnus
But what module is the arm attached to? If its attached to the Russian module it may not matter who made it.
The arm has an anchor at both ends and can move around the station.
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Either way, AFAIK, no capsule's docking procedure has ever involved the European Robotic Arm, which is the arm that's attached to the Russian segment, and which wasn't even part of ISS until Nauka docked in 2021.
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Either way, AFAIK, no capsule's docking procedure has ever involved the European Robotic Arm, which is the arm that's attached to the Russian segment, and which wasn't even part of ISS until Nauka docked in 2021.
Ah, ok, I didn't realize that thing had a ESA arm on it. Interesting.
But anyway, the Cygnus uses the Canadarm. Certainly others too, I don't recall which though.
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Yeah, Canadarm2, which is attached to the trusses above the U.S. orbital segment.
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They didn't think the russians would ever be powerful enough to cut them off, so no. It's funny though. The country that came up with the saturn 5 is the same country that voluntarily killed its space program and handed it to the enemy. What a bunch of cucks. GW Bush was a useful idiot. He'll rot in hell.
We have multiple crew capsules, multiple supply capsules, and multiple launch vehicles. That's not even counting the Orion/SLS or Starship.
We're not cut off at all.
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Well, corporations are pretty well set. As long as the US government remains their obedient servant, I guess it can be said the US still has a manned space program.
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Well, corporations are pretty well set. As long as the US government remains their obedient servant, I guess it can be said the US still has a manned space program.
The manned space program was always using vehicles built by (mostly the very same) corporations. It isn't like NASA literally built the rockets and capsules themselves. That's not how it was done.
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What he left out of that diagram is that: NASA/EASA/JASA segment will not have a single working toilet, insufficient life support and only one docking port which is located amidst all other station infrastructure without an arm to bring any incoming craft and dock. The arm is on the Russian segment and only Russian vehicles have the ability to dock stra
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The arm in not a Russian part. What makes you think they can take it? The way I look at it is that international cooperation starts by being internationally friendly. I don't think any part of the station can survive without the others.
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The Russian parts, which were all paid for by someone else (US! Except for the arm attached to it, which was paid for and built by Europe) because the Russians went broke from a combination of cold war and corruption, could reasonably be replaced. Two years is a tight schedule but it's feasible, if not probable.
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Tricky those Europeans naming the arm the Canadarm2, I guess after making the first Canadarm for the shuttle they had to keep the name.
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They have treaty obligations to maintain their part. They don't have the legal right to take their module and go home, although they didn't have the right to invade Ukraine either. So I guess they could *try*, except it would be expensive, and they're not exactly flush right now.
They would be shooting themselves in the foot though. One of the *political* goals of ISS was to preserve the old Soviet aerospace industry. The US and its partners did not want Soviet rocket experts scattering around the globe.
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The arm is on the Russian segment
Canadarm 2 [nasa.gov] is designed to be moved all over the station, except on the russian module which has different rails, so it has to have the ERA. Without the russian module, you don't need ERA.
only Russian vehicles have the ability to dock straight onto the dockports without being brought in by the arm
SpaceX docked crew dragon [space.com] straight onto a dock port autonomously. So in fact you don't need a docking arm to dock Dragon at all.
Dragon could theoretically be modified to perform station keeping duties, though it cannot carry them out now. In two years we could have a stationkeeping dragon, because the required modificatio
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Dragon could theoretically be modified to perform station keeping duties, though it cannot carry them out now. In two years we could have a stationkeeping dragon, because the required modifications are small, and the time is needed almost entirely for testing.
Or you could just launch the next Starliner, which is standing by for that anyway and can launch from a Falcon if needed. Or you could just launch a Cygnus.
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Rogozin did a very helpful diagram in February on his twitter exactly what will happen in this case. Russian segment detaches, USA segment is left in space.
What he left out of that diagram is that: NASA/EASA/JASA segment will not have a single working toilet, insufficient life support and only one docking port which is located amidst all other station infrastructure without an arm to bring any incoming craft and dock. The arm is on the Russian segment and only Russian vehicles have the ability to dock straight onto the dockports without being brought in by the arm.
Both modules need the other to operate, by design. [futurism.com]It would also have consequences for the Russians as their module relies on power from the US side as well. Detaching it would require cooperation from the US to do it safely, and also mean the likely end of their module. Russia plans to use it as part of their own space station, so detaching it would set back those plans as well. Of course, if Putin thinks he is losing his grip he may not care since survival would be his first goal.
James Oberg discussed
Parent is Russian propaganda outlet.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent poster is Russian propaganda outlet. Don't expect any truth.
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Well said. I admit I've been astonished by how pervasive Russian maskirovka has become. It's not just propaganda, it's aggressive efforts to undermine the concept that objective information even exists.
I was shocked when the trolls who now infest this place arrived en masse to cheapen and demean it, and I'm unpleasantly surprised that the new owners haven't seen fit to do anything about them.
Re: Introduction to Realpolitik (Score:2)
Naive question, I'm sure, but can the astronauts aboard the station prevent the Russian side from undocking (mechanically or otherwise)?
Removing the Russian section would basically be a punitive action, given that it's useless just floating in space by itself, right? The alternative is for Russia to declare that it will remove its cosmonauts and stop attending to the Russian section from the ground. Basically abandon ship and let the others deal with managing the whole thing.
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Rogozin did a very helpful diagram in February on his twitter exactly what will happen in this case. Russian segment detaches, USA segment is left in space.
What he left out of that diagram is that: NASA/EASA/JASA segment will not have a single working toilet, insufficient life support and only one docking port which is located amidst all other station infrastructure without an arm to bring any incoming craft and dock. The arm is on the Russian segment and only Russian vehicles have the ability to dock straight onto the dockports without being brought in by the arm.
No, no, no, and no. The U.S. segment has had a toilet since 2008. I think they installed a second toilet right next to it in 2020. There is one backup toilet in the Russian segment that may or may not be working. Its failure is actually the reason they sent up a new one in 2020.
The Russian segment has had substantial life support problems in the past and had to rely on the U.S. segment and extra oxygen deliveries, not the other way around.
And every single docking port on the Russian segment is designed
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The US has the #1 and #2 heaviest lifting launch vehicles currently operational in the world, Falcon Heavy and Delta IV Heavy, respectively.
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Those are corporations, not the US. I imagine you also believe oil and gas that would come from opening US parks to drilling would go to US citizens, rather than be sold on the world market to the highest bidder.
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What in the name of the fuck are you rambling about?!
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Put EVERYONE in a strait jacket and let God sort em' out
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Ironically, Biden is the one slowing down aid to Ukraine. He is the one who vetoed the fighter jets from being sent to Ukraine.
Bluster (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Bluster (Score:4, Interesting)
Not in this case.
- Two years is too long. The ISS loses altitude through drag, this can be as much as 100 km/year. In two years, it's going to reenter the atmosphere.
- Most of the reboosts that are needed to keep the ISS at a safe altitude have been done by Russian spacecraft. The only non-Russian spacecraft capable of doing reboosts is Cygnus, which has done 1 reboost so far.
- The Russian modules provide essential services for attitude control. There is no replacement we can launch on short notice.
- the Russian modules provide some functions that are not replicated in the US segment, including life support, toilets and docking ports.
Basically, if the Russians follow through on this threat, the ISS is screwed.
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Not in this case. - Two years is too long. The ISS loses altitude through drag, this can be as much as 100 km/year. In two years, it's going to reenter the atmosphere. - Most of the reboosts that are needed to keep the ISS at a safe altitude have been done by Russian spacecraft. The only non-Russian spacecraft capable of doing reboosts is Cygnus, which has done 1 reboost so far. - The Russian modules provide essential services for attitude control. There is no replacement we can launch on short notice. - the Russian modules provide some functions that are not replicated in the US segment, including life support, toilets and docking ports.
Basically, if the Russians follow through on this threat, the ISS is screwed.
However, Russia would risk being screwed long term as well. Countries would not trust them as a reliable partner and ensure they have no power over a joint project. They also risk losing commercial business if they are viewed as unreliable. They also risk pushing the rest of the world to look to greater cooperation with China on space research, which would have geopolitical implications beyond just space. Could they do it? Sure, and a dictator who feels he is losing his grip is unpredictable and unstable
Re:Bluster (Score:4, Interesting)
They also risk losing commercial business if they are viewed as unreliable.
After the oneweb debacle, I doubt they can do anything else to make them viewed as a risk as a commerical partner.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-po... [bbc.com]
Oneweb fully paid them for all future launches, and they refused to launch / refund / return the oneweb satellites.
It will be crazy for any company outside Russia to use them for any commerical launches.
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They also risk losing commercial business if they are viewed as unreliable.
After the oneweb debacle, I doubt they can do anything else to make them viewed as a risk as a commerical partner.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-po... [bbc.com]
Oneweb fully paid them for all future launches, and they refused to launch / refund / return the oneweb satellites.
It will be crazy for any company outside Russia to use them for any commerical launches.
Yea. I supposed Musk/Bezos/Airbus/ULA are happy to take up the slack. China is probably happy as well. I wonder what conversations are happening behind the scenes since no one wants to contradict Putin publicly. Roscosmos knows they cannot operate their unit without power from the US , which would end their current plans to use it as part of a Russia only space lab. The probably could not even undock without US/ESA help.
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SpaceX already has a contract to send up Oneweb sats. Not surprising, as I doubt the other launch providers have spare launch capacity on hand.
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Two years is too long.
Basically, if the Russians follow through on this threat, the ISS is screwed.
Only if they do something extreme like detaching their modules from the ISS. Scientists (Russian ones included) aren't too keen on stopping science from being done, so they aren't about to doom the ISS for petty political games. If you recall, the current set of cosmonauts arrived wearing colors from Ukraine's flag. So stop being an alarmist because two years won't be a problem.
The only non-Russian spacecraft capable of doing reboosts is Cygnus, which has done 1 reboost so far.
I'm certain that Northrop Grumman and the ULA would be more than happy to take more government money. I'm not seeing the proble
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Basically, if the Russians follow through on this threat, the ISS is screwed.
If the ISS splashes sooner rather than later, then so be it.
ISS is now at end of life. The US segment seems to be in good shape still, but the Russian modules are showing their age. Zvezda has a serious leak that they're still unable to fix, which is hampering operations.
Although there were very good reasons to bring in Russia to the ISS consortium, they have had trouble meeting their commitments. How many years late did the Nauka module arrive? With the sanctions now against Russia, they will be hard-press
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The only non-Russian spacecraft capable of doing reboosts is Cygnus
The european ATVs were also capable of boosting the ISS. Ok, the last one flew in 2013, and I guess it would take quite some time to build more of them.
Time for a new space station I guess.
SpaceX (Score:4, Insightful)
Hasn't Musk already said SpaceX could attach one of their capsules to the ISS and pretty much replace the command and control functionality the Russian module provides?
I'm not Musk's biggest fan; but I'll take him over the little spymaster any day of the week. Russia needs the world far more than the world needs Russia.
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Why are you so mean to other people? Why are you making personal attacks?
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NASA was a source of national pride. Musk is an embarrassment. It's like we're living in the Idiocracy timeline with corporate branding on our space program. Science and space exploration should be for the benefit of all mankind, not something that is sold to the highest bidder so he can pump his stock on Twitter.
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Also, the Tesla model names are S, 3, X, and Y, tho not released in that order.
And The Boring Company.
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Also, the Tesla model names are S, 3, X, and Y,
only because Ford was threatening them over using model E, and it was not worth fighting.
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That is (to use a very popular term in the corporate world) authenticity.
He's an authentic shitlord with his "pedo guy" hot take.
He might make an embarrasing spectacle of himself on occasion
...proving in the process what a piece of shit he personally is, because when people's authentic statements are as shit as some of his have been, it tells a story.
This doesn't negate the value of SpaceX to humanity, but it does make me wish someone else were at the helm. Ditto Tesla, though it has far less value. In the best case cars are still polluting more than our other transportation options.
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Someone else in charge of Tesla or SpaceX will not be willing to challenge the established players or dare to take the risks Elon takes with his companies.
He may be crazy / weird at times, but once he sets his mind on some technology, it seems he gets things actually moving. Unlike his competitors who will still on tech and make minor incremental advancements over decades and claim it's the new hot shit.
I would rather have another 100 Musks (with all his faults) around, running a bunch of other companies th
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Musk says a lot of things. In reality SpaceX can't help with orbital boosts or with control. SpaceX hasn't demonstrated the kinds of facilities that are needed, only smaller and more limited versions of them. Their toilet leaks too.
Plus, if you have half the station as dead weight, or even worse acting against you, it's going to be pretty difficult to do anything with it. Even just separating the electrical systems would be damn near impossible, especially on the timescales available.
by the flying balls (Score:1)
Re: "Artemyev has expressed support for Russia"
Of course, nobody wants to be stuck in space by pissing off their dictator.
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And "we are together with our president and people" doesn't exactly equate to "I'm all in behind our invasion of Ukraine!"
If we're not nice to the bully (Score:2)
he'll do a special operation on us to denazify the space station. Fuck Putin.
It is an empty threat (Score:1)
Remind me again... (Score:2)
What's the ISS good for, apart from training astronauts?
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Oh, and monitoring the climate change hoax here on Earth. And keeping the space laser aligned to prevent accidental forest fires. And boosting the signal to the receiver in your dental fillings. And keeping an exact eye on the Trump fellow who nearly exposed the real world government. And . . .
Typical bully reaction (Score:5, Insightful)
This all could stop by Russia pulling out of Ukraine, But no. They will go cry to their mother if they don't get their way.
It's time humanity as a whole comes together and says war is not acceptable. Violence is not acceptable in any form. We come together and accept human rights that will be applicable to all and we abide by them. Humanity needs to come together and cooperate. This racism of nationality, skin color, language, sex, money needs to end, otherwise the human race will not survive.
Sorry Russia, if you can't play well with others you have to go home and play with yourself. The rest of humanity, or at least the West, will push through the short term pain and we will be better off without you.
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I think at this point, Russia is going to have to pull out of Crimea too.
When Russia started blustering about NATO (was it only?) a few months ago, I though it would be a really good compromise to call their bluff and commit to a NATO-free Ukraine as long as Russia gave back Crimea. Was that a stupid utopian fantasy, or just stupid enough to have been a real solution?
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This all could stop by Russia pulling out of Ukraine, But no. They will go cry to their mother if they don't get their way.
It's time humanity as a whole comes together and says war is not acceptable. Violence is not acceptable in any form. We come together and accept human rights that will be applicable to all and we abide by them. Humanity needs to come together and cooperate. This racism of nationality, skin color, language, sex, money needs to end, otherwise the human race will not survive.
Sorry Russia, if you can't play well with others you have to go home and play with yourself. The rest of humanity, or at least the West, will push through the short term pain and we will be better off without you.
Even if Putin withdraws all his troops tomorrow, I doubt sanctions will just stop anytime soon. I think with the current world sentiment, until Putin himself is not in power or no more, I doubt Russia is going to get out of sanctions for the forseeable future regardless what they do next.
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Problem is Russia has nukes. We can't be sure Putin wouldn't use them and his generals wouldn't stop him.
The ideal solution would be to aim for a nuclear weapon free world, with harsh economic sanctions on countries that do not rapidly disarm. Of course, that would include us, which is why it will never happen.
Keep the sanctions going (Score:2)
You know you're doing good when you opponent squeals like a pig. Right now one of Russia's top priorities is getting the sanctions lifted. They are withering on the vine and time is not on their side.
Right after Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine stopped shipments of engines used in Russian helicopters [newyorker.com] as well as other components used in production of cruise missiles and ships. Russia does not have the capability to produce these same items so now they're stuck with whatever stockpiles they hav
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At the current rate of Russian losses, I personally don't see how that's possible
The plan is to finish destroying Mariupol, build fortifications along all the area they've conquered on the southern coast, and declare victory.
Before it was ISS it was SSF (Score:2)
The Russians only got involved because of budget cuts. Essentially, the U.S. government allowed some of its manufacturing capacity to be moved overseas. That always works out so well.
Except that's not what was said - clickbait (Score:2)
That's a typical clickbait headline. It's not what the article actually says in the text, it's not what the Russian government says, it's an "if maybe some things" shitpost from Roscosmos that doesn't call it either.
Russia and transport to and from the Space Station (Score:2)
Suck it up, Russia, I am quite sure that Elon Musk has the technology and will be only too willing to provide those services.
My two bits
Choices, choices (Score:1)
Hmmm, tough call but, I'm gonna go with confronting the murderous, sadistic sociopaths and holding them accountable for their actions.
GOOD (Score:2)
Time for the EU to step up and send replacement astronauts to the ISS. Also Asia, Africa. We've had enough White Men in space - let's get more women in space, and share the engineering knowledge globally, with other nations funding the continuing presence of the ISS. Cut Russia out of the ISS; Russia's space program will fall apart without funding that comes from the US.