The Digital Nomads Did Not Prepare for This (nytimes.com) 109
They moved to exotic locales to work through the pandemic in style. But now tax trouble, breakups and Covid guilt are setting in. From a report: For a certain kind of worker, the pandemic presented a rupture in the space-time-career continuum. Many Americans were stuck, tied down by children or lost income or obligations to take care of the sick. But for those who were unencumbered, with steady jobs that were doable from anywhere, it was a moment to grab destiny and bend employment to their favor. Their logic was as enviable as it was unattainable for everyone else: If you're going to work from home indefinitely, why not make a new home in an exotic place? This tiny cohort gathered their MacBooks, passports and N95 masks and became digital nomads. They Instagrammed their workdays from empty beach resorts in Bali and took Zoom meetings from tricked-out camper vans. They made balcony offices at cheap Tulum Airbnbs and booked state park campsites with Wi-Fi. They were the kind of people who actually applied to those remote worker visa programs heavily advertised by Caribbean countries. And occasionally they were deflated.
[...] It turns out there are drawbacks the trend stories and Instagram posts didn't share. Tax things. Red-tape things. Wi-Fi rage things. Closed border things. The kinds of things one might gloss over when making an emotional, quarantine-addled decision to pack up an apartment and book a one-way ticket to Panama or Montreal or Kathmandu. Americans have never been especially good at vacation. Before Covid-19, they were leaving unused hundreds of millions of paid days off. They even created a work-vacation hybrid -- the workation. The idea: Travel to a nice place, work during the day and then, in theory, enjoy the scenery in the off hours. In pandemic times, the digital nomads have simply made workation a permanent state. The bad news is it's the worst of both worlds. They should be enjoying themselves in their new, beautiful surroundings. But they can't enjoy themselves, because work beckons. The anxious self-optimization pingpongs between "Why aren't I living my best life?" and "Why aren't I killing it at work?"
[...] It turns out there are drawbacks the trend stories and Instagram posts didn't share. Tax things. Red-tape things. Wi-Fi rage things. Closed border things. The kinds of things one might gloss over when making an emotional, quarantine-addled decision to pack up an apartment and book a one-way ticket to Panama or Montreal or Kathmandu. Americans have never been especially good at vacation. Before Covid-19, they were leaving unused hundreds of millions of paid days off. They even created a work-vacation hybrid -- the workation. The idea: Travel to a nice place, work during the day and then, in theory, enjoy the scenery in the off hours. In pandemic times, the digital nomads have simply made workation a permanent state. The bad news is it's the worst of both worlds. They should be enjoying themselves in their new, beautiful surroundings. But they can't enjoy themselves, because work beckons. The anxious self-optimization pingpongs between "Why aren't I living my best life?" and "Why aren't I killing it at work?"
Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:1, Troll)
Boy oh boy am I going to get a bad case of schadenfreude when the treehuggers leave California for Texas only to find out that the Green New Deal means the lights in Texas don't come on either when the sun don't shine and the wind blow.
Re: (Score:3)
You said it, so many ideas sound so good as long as someone else is paying, its in someone elses back yard, and the rule don't apply to me.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
Just FYI, we've invented these things called "batteries" that can store electricity for later use. Renewable energy plus batteries are now cheaper than fossil fuels. That's not pie in the sky, that is current economic fact. https://science.sciencemag.org... [sciencemag.org]
Sad that the treehuggers are right while you are demonstrably wrong? Good thing facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake.
Re: (Score:1)
You don't have an argument, that is proposal for something that doesn't exist yet and might be built in 3 years.
Come back when you have hard proof.
Re: (Score:2)
I have proof, Just ask Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Shall I make some sad trombone noises for you? Whomp whomp whaa. Thanks for playing, and have a complimentary copy of our home game, "Spun proved me wrong on the Internet yet again!"
Re:Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:4, Insightful)
You are clueless and prove nothing.
that thing can provide 3000 homes with power... for an hour. It's not an energy solution, it's a peak load / temp blackout/brownout solution.
It proves *nothing* about batteries being able to provide continuous baseload power for even a half day.
Re: (Score:1)
You have proved less than nothing. Show me why you think batteries are not economical. Here's more data, showing a clear trend of dramatic reduction in the cost of batteries in US dollars per kilowatt hour. https://www.iea.org/data-and-s... [iea.org]
Now it's your turn. Stop talking shit and post cold hard facts, you lazy sack of dicks. You can't. You have nothing but empty words and tired rhetoric, a tempest in a teacup as it were: full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing.
Re: (Score:2)
You first gave example of that doesn't exist, a proposal. You then give example of something that helps during peak load or temp blackout, can't provide for more than a very short time. Next you show graph why laptop and cell phone batteries cost less with each passing year, that's nice.
Meanwhile, you have zero proof of in the here and now solar + battery would be cheaper than fossil for base load power.
Maybe someday, that day is not today.
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.nrdc.org/experts/k... [nrdc.org]
https://www.nrdc.org/experts/k... [nrdc.org]
https://energypost.eu/dispelli... [energypost.eu]
Wow. It's like you are too lazy to even try. Just more bloviating, no sources, no statistics, just hot air. Too bad we can't bottle that up and use it for power.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh so having lost argument you move goalpost to try to redefine "base load" by some greenie nonsense rather than how the power generation industry defines it.
Not biting, I've working at power plant and base load is real and defined, not a mythical concept. No surprise someone bringing up tech that can't meet base load would think that toilet paper is worth anything.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:5, Insightful)
In Cali they found enough PE credentialed grifters to certify otherwise, and they can't keep their lights on when it's cloudy because they blew all their money on solar and they can't keep the lights on when its sunny because that money spent on solar was money not spent on replacing fire hazard transmission lines.
Oh and they all decided that nuclear power equals Homer Simpson at the helm, so gotta be solar and wind and definitely not the one clean and proven source of electricity that we can actually build at scale.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, at least we agree that nuclear is a good option. Best way to get rid of greenhouse emissions right away. Modern nuclear can be safe and relatively waste free. Pisses me off that environmentalists are stuck in the eighties on this issue.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:3)
However, when I see the local enviros in Massachusetts and New England in general not just campaigning to shut down the few nuclear plants we still have operating but also blocking the construction of power lines to Canada to buy cheap hydro and wanting every car and city bus to be elec
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Plus we might find a use for it some day, and if we throw it into the sun or crash it onto the moon, it's no longer contained.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The earth orbits the sun at about 30 kilometers per second. You'd need 30km/s of delta v to cancel that out. By comparison, getting into earth orbit costs about 9km/s of delta v (which just means "change in velocity.") And getting to, say, low Mars orbit from low Earth orbit only costs about 6km/s of delta v.
It's harder to get to the sun than it is to escape its gravity entirely. It costs about 42.1 km/s of delta v to leave the sun's orbit entirely, but you are starting from 30km/s in Earth's orbit, so all
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, that's not for a few years yet. At least, not until more people leave California.
Ever
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:1)
Re:Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:5, Interesting)
This article hits home for me. I am working from an Airbnb in Hawaii right now. There is almost no Covid here. It is one of the safest places in the world to ride out the storm.
No tax problems for me. My income is channeled through a personal s-corp. Even if it wasn't, the official address on my paychecks is in California, and tax authorities have no plausible way to know my physical location.
TFA's claim that life in exile is all-work-and-no-play is nonsense. There are 168 hours in a week and I only work about 50 of them. That leaves plenty of time for family activities.
I'm not seeing any downside.
Aloha
Re: (Score:2)
Did you swim there? With physical cash for a few years? Renting a place, getting internet and getting health insurance without contracts? Using a vpn when you use the internet? None of your coworkers know? etc etc
Re: (Score:2)
The IRS does not have access to my CC receipts nor do they have access to the ISP's records that are not in my name anyway, since I don't own the Airbnb.
Even if the IRS did have those records, they don't actually care which state I file my taxes from. It's not their problem.
The only jurisdiction that should care is the state of Hawaii, and they aren't going to take action that would drive away billions in tourism spending. Tourism is, by far, the biggest industry in the state.
But let's say they did come a
Re: (Score:1)
The IRS does not have access to my CC receipts nor do they have access to the ISP's records that are not in my name anyway, since I don't own the Airbnb.
Even if the IRS did have those records, they don't actually care which state I file my taxes from. It's not their problem.
The only jurisdiction that should care is the state of Hawaii, and they aren't going to take action that would drive away billions in tourism spending. Tourism is, by far, the biggest industry in the state.
But let's say they did come after me. What would happen? Well, my taxes would go DOWN, since Hawaii's income tax rates are lower than California's.
So I am not losing sleep over it.
Hmm, sounds like you're avoiding paying Hawaii's General Excise Tax ("An Introduction to the General Excise Tax" [hawaii.gov]).
From Information on Hawaii State Taxes for Taxpayers Doing Business in Hawaii [hawaii.gov]:
2 What is the GET?
The GET is a broad-based tax which taxes every business activity within the State, unless exempted by statute. The GET Law taxes persons (individuals, corporations, partnerships, or other entities) on the gross receipts or gross income they derive from their business activities in the State.
5 Are out-of-state businesses subject to the GET? Yes. Gross income is subject to GET if the seller has sufficient presence in the State. Presence in the State is established in a variety of ways, not all of which are listed in this publication. For example, if your business has an office, inventory, property, employees, or other representation in the State, or if services in conjunction with the sales of property, such as training, installation, or repairs, are provided in the State, or if your business has annual gross receipts of $100,000 or more from customers in the State, or has 200 or more transactions with customers in the State, your business has presence in the State. The furnishing of personal or other services in the State and the leasing of tangible personal property located in Hawaii are other examples of transactions that are taxable. You must thoroughly analyze the facts and circumstances surrounding your transaction when determining whether there is sufficient presence. Out-of-state businesses are encouraged to contact the Department regarding their specific circumstances.
Re:Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:4)
It was all sounding great until you said 50 hours a week.
37.5 is more than enough.
Re: (Score:1)
It was all sounding great until you said 50 hours a week.
37.5 is more than enough.
This explains so much...
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
only to find out that the Green New Deal means the lights in Texas don't come on either when the sun don't shine and the wind blow.
Your understanding of the proposed laws and concepts is amazing. I'm proud of you. Tomorrow we're going to learn to count to 10 using both hands.
I mean I assume with a statement like that what you wanted was to be treated like a child right?
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
When we achieve true socialism...
Normally I'd insult you by calling you some kind of RightwingNutjob, but ...
I actually wonder if the only reason you're actually a RightwingNutjob is because your understanding on complex topics rivals that of a young child! Wind power = socialism and the end of America. Solar power = I can't watch TV at night.
Hey you should support this. In a future socialist world you may have gotten an actual education rather than whatever it is that made you into the rightwingnutjob you are today.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
In that time, I've learned one thing repeatedly: even educated people have a tendency to "throw things over the fence" as it were and assume that someone on the other side will catch it to make the power, cost, or reliability budgets close. When enough people like that get together, all repeating that same assumption
Re: (Score:2)
The lights will go off permanently if we don't do something about our addiction to our finite supply of highly polluting fossil fuels.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
How much time do we have then, in terms of both affordable fossil fuel reserves and in terms of total atmospheric carbon dioxide build up?
Re: (Score:1)
How much time do we have then
Hundreds, possibly thousands, of years.
Inconvenient to the panic agenda, I know. But you did ask.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Now cite some actual evidence to back your claim up.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Warming will affect sea levels and food production, he grants, but the problems thus caused would be manageable by an ever-wealthier human race.
So his argument is basically climate change is real and happening, but we can fix all the problems with "technology" and "profits".
That sounds like an incredibly flimsy argument, you got any actual citations on how we can magically fix climate change? Or oil becoming scarce while we're still reliant on it?
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Now give some citations to back that claim up
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Seen any great auks recently? Did you ask those prairie farmers what happened to all their topsoil? Resource collapse can and *does* happen. I didn't make any specific claims about how long we have, however it is a *fact* that there is a finite amount of oil, it is a *fact* that fossil fuel CO2 emissions are causing climate change, it is a *fact* that CO2 is causing ocean acidification, and it is a *fact* that all this is already damaging our environment.
So unless YOU can prove we have plenty of time I sugg
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Soil depletes. We still farm. Species get hunted down. We limit that until they breed back. Oil and gas will get harder to get at. Not for a while. And certainly not on any timescale to excuse totalitarianism.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)
Looks like RightWingNutJob is admitting he's full of shit and only posting to get a reaction. It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not your darling, buddy.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not your buddy, guy
Re: (Score:2)
I think the trope we might be aiming for here is.. Jerkass / Extremist has a point. [tvtropes.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Or an army of sock puppets.
Re: Jet setters grounded like the rest of us (Score:4, Interesting)
Sock puppetry in politics works best when there is a steady beat of seemingly independent voices speaking at pseadorandom intervals, but occasionally you'll get lucky and see them all squawking the same talking points in near unison, like when Atlantic, NPR, and NYT all kicked into overdrive to spin antifa as some sort of European punk rock thing in 2017 after Evergreen, or in 2019 when they all broke into a spontaneous Busby Berkeley musical number to defend AOC when she said immigration detention on the Mexican border was "concentration camps." And just recently, the sock covered jazz hands all sprang into action to explain how "defund the police" didn't mean "defund the police." Except that a few left socks ended up on right hands and accidentally doubled down on "defund the police" meaning exactly "defund the police."
It's fun to watch, I admit. But it would be ever so much more fun if it were happening in a country other than the one I live in.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think you know what a sock puppet is.
Re: (Score:2)
Speaking of sock puppets... his post is modded +4 informative now.
Ironic.
Re: (Score:1)
Do you practice being an obnoxious moron, or it just natural talent?
Do you always retort factual statements with ignorant ones, or is that just a natural tendency to react that way when you melt a little, snowflake?
Anyone jetsetting to some remote anyfuckingwhere to work, is probably overlooking a lot of shit during a global pandemic. Those who are that remote from a virus are likely that remote from many other resources critical to survival. Doesn't really matter who's favored (or not) during lockdowns when the very definition of lockdown is so dynamic it can change dail
Okay, so... (Score:5, Informative)
So... the point here is that some people are bad at doing "workations"?
It's worked just fine for me and other members on my team for fairly extended periods of time (sometimes years). I guess it's good to be aware of the downsides---and maybe rushing to do this during this pandemic meant a lot of people didn't look before they leaped---but that doesn't mean that this lifestyle can't work.
Re:Okay, so... (Score:4, Insightful)
"Killing it at work" should never become a life goal. And a vacation should be a vacation, not some bizarre hybrid. Work time and personal time need to have a solid wall between them.
As for internet; wow, it's hard to get good internet in the US, in some cities and most rural areas, and you get best internet in suburbs. So now you go to a third world country and wonder why the internet isn't as good... If you want the best, you go to Europe, not a state park or a beach in southeast asia.
Re: (Score:2)
In other words, you don't want to be an active startup founder, or work for a startup with a strong chance of "making it", so others shouldn't,either
Re: (Score:2)
Oh hell no, I never would. The worst possible working environment! And 9 out of 10 startups fail, and the 10th most likely just barely makes it. Get a reasonable salary up front and then you won't kill your health worrying about mythical options.
Re: (Score:2)
Startups are fun. First few roles were in setting up startups. Then contracted with bigger companies to get exposure to the big toys, which fed back to my own show being that much better after learning the lessons the big guys had learned ahead of me, and that augmented what I already knew.
Got headhunted to other startups in the meantime through the slightly less young years (which is where I sorted life out financially), and then settled on working for the UK's NHS to apply everything I could pick up fro
Re: (Score:3)
Work time and personal time need to have a solid wall between them.
This sounds like a you-problem. Just because you have that inadequacy doesn't mean others do.
"Killing it at work" should never become a life goal.
When I "workation" the goal is to have the job support the trip (and my life) financially. It has nothing to do with "killing it at work", and everything to do with experiencing more of what the world has to offer without being confined to a maximum of a couple weeks at a time.
Please don't project the attitude that it's not possible for anyone to have that balance just because you can't. It's incredibly arrogant.
Re: (Score:2)
You might be surprised about internet connectivity in some of these places. Sometimes they have the advantage of getting started late or their old network being too poor to support ADSL, or simply having decided to replace everything with fibre because it's a great infrastructure project.
So sometimes you find they have gigabit speeds for very little money. Sometimes out-of-country connectivity can be an issue but do your research and there are good places to go.
Re: (Score:2)
If you want the best, you go to Europe
Who wouldn't let a Trump-nation citizen in for any reason.
Cry me a river (Score:5, Insightful)
Lots of people have seen their businesses and incomes decimated, had their lives turned upside down by Covid.
Of course many have also gotten sick and some have died too.
I'm supposed to worry about some people who got bored when they escaped to Bali?
Re: (Score:3)
I'm supposed to worry about some people who got bored when they escaped to Bali?
No I think the point of this story is that you should be experiencing schadenfreude.
News at 11 - 3rd world laws not the same as ours (Score:1)
Score 4: Obvious
Just because it's easy to say... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I suspect some people didn't quit understand camping either. It's not a life of luxury, it can be a bit annoying. No uber-eats or door-dash. clean out your own sewage, assuming you find a place that allows you to dump it. Difficulty finding decent water or even electricity. Health care issues when the need arrives. Camping for a vacation is nice because 1) it's temporary, and 2) someone (probably mom) is doing all the grunt work to make sure the rest of the family is having fun.
Electronic Leash & Perception vs Reality (Score:5, Insightful)
To enjoy life outside of work you need a hard line between work and non-work. The more we make work portable, the harder it is to fully let go. It is too easy to "squeeze in" an hour of work when you're bored, or to check for e-mails constantly. Smartphones are the electronic leash of the new era. Pagers were the first I remember, back in the day. Part of it is ego. You have to realize that you are not indispensable and work will continue without you. Turn it off.
The other issue is the perception of what is amazing versus what actually is. I say this as someone who had a condo down on a sunny, Florida beach and tried working in an "amazing" environment. The pictures look nice, but the reality is something different.
Working with a computer, outside in a sunny location is damn near impossible just as a start. Toss in salt air and sand with expensive, delicate electronics and it easily crosses the line. Then remember outside noise. Ugh.
It absolutely can work, but isn't what people imagine it is. If you can hard disconnect after 5:00 (or whenever), leave the equipment home, turn on do-not-disturb, then walk down to the local beach bar and enjoy a cocktail in the sand, it is absolutely amazing. Or just go for a run, or sit and watch the sunset.
The key is you absolutely have to disconnect. Turn it off and enjoy the life AFK.
Re: (Score:2)
The key is you absolutely have to disconnect. Turn it off and enjoy the life AFK.
I think you missed the point of TFA. A vacation is a time to disconnect completely. Work is a time to work. Thinking you can do both in the same day is silly. The end result is you work, distracted, and then you take in your surroundings, ... tired and wasted from a day's work.
The thing people are missing is that work life balance does not mean trying to do both at the same time.
Re: (Score:2)
I work in an exotic location too, but I never work outside. Outside is for hiking, patio dining, and gathering such-that-it-is-today.
Re:Electronic Leash & Perception vs Reality (Score:5, Insightful)
To enjoy life outside of work you need a hard line between work and non-work
You actually don't. What you do need is:
Smartphones are the electronic leash of the new era.
to make a line between "available" and "unavailable".
Every work-related stress I've seen is from either overload or constant availability. If they can call you any moment, you don't relax. If you have more work to do than you can manage, you don't relax.
If you have a managable schedule, it doesn't matter if things blur. I've gone to the shops during the early afternoon, then worked on something late in the evening, and it's fine.
BUT - it has become increasingly popular to simply overload people. And when that happens, having a line where it stops, where you say "done or not, enough for today" helps. But that's just a countermeasure, the actual problem is the overload.
The pictures look nice, but the reality is something different.
A decade ago, I met an expat on holiday on an caribbean island. I was on holiday, she owned a bar there. Here's what she said: "At the end of the day, wherever you are, it's work."
The digital nomads didn't get that. They also didn't get that beaches don't make happy in the long run, but meaningful connections, friendship, family and familiarity do. Holidays are great BECAUSE they are exceptional times. We remember them because they aren't everyday, they are spikes in our routine. If you make the extraordinary your daily life, it just becomes a new ordinary.
malcontents (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Not really. I mean exotic locations sound great, but they are great when you're *not* working. A beach in Bali is only as good as me swimming in it.
Re: malcontents (Score:2)
People who love hiking and mountain biking enjoy living in Denver versus Houston because itâ(TM)s so much easier to get to the destinations they want to g
Re: (Score:2)
By the same logic you should not care about where you live because you work where you live and can just vacation wherever you want to go.
Not quite. Again you seem to think work life balance is the idea of simply enjoying your afternoon. The reality is it's total enjoyment that matters. Weekends are good and all but they are desperate need to unwind from a week of work. You are partially right, where you live is irrelevant if you don't every actually plan to take an actual vacation.
There's plenty of evidence that employees who don't take their annual leave suffer from far higher levels of burnout and depression, and that's the simple reality
Re:malcontents (Score:5, Interesting)
Bingo. They thought changing their surroundings would make them happy, not realizing that the problem wasn't their surroundings, it was their attitude.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:First world problems in third world countries (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed. Heck, I know people who work from Hawaii. Beautiful place. But there are some drawbacks regarding timezones and syncing up. They get out on the weekends, sure, but after awhile you've been everywhere and you've done everything and you realize that you're on an island and there's nothing else to do. As my friend said, "if you're not into surfing, there's not a whole lot there to do every day."
Unless the place has something that you like to do, as opposed to something you like to see, you're going to get sick of it.
The Digital Nomads Did Not Prepare for This (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
I've heard about this. Americans abroad finding out about that nasty thing where the USA collects taxes on your wages earned elsewhere. I am a citizen in one country where I have assets, live in another country, and work in a 3rd country. Even pwc screwed up my tax return and I'm getting financially raped by double taxation laws that absolutely screw people cross borders.
Re: (Score:3)
I worked in Asia during the Carter Dark Ages, when people with AOC's understanding of economics ran Washington. I paid local taxes plus US taxes, taking a credit of the foreign taxes paid. The company paid a differential for the extra taxes this arrangement cost me over the same salary in the US. Each year, I had to add the previous year's tax differential in as ordinary income when computing the next year's taxes, meaning that the tax on the same salary was higher every year. After four years the company w
The Times Is On It (Score:4, Insightful)
Author is reaching to try to sound more relevant (Score:3)
If you had a remote job before the pandemic which you could do anywhere, you could already make your home in an exotic location. The pandemic didn't change that. The author is just stretching to try to make the story sound relevant to today, when it's been true for decades.
The biggest fly in the ointment (for Americans) usually turns out to be taxes. Most countries tax based on location - if you reside in the country they tax you, if you reside outside the country they don't tax you. This is why you may have noticed Canadians working in the U.S. being careful to count how much vacation and weekend time they spend visiting home. If they exceed a cumulative 182 days over a year, Canada considers them Canadian residents and will tax them.
The U.S. taxes based on both location and citizenship. If you reside in the U.S. it taxes you. And if you're a U.S. citizen it taxes you regardless of where you're located. This often leads to double taxation (you owe taxes to both your host country and the U.S.), and has caught many people, especially those with dual U.S. citizenship who have never stepped foot in the U.S. as an adult [theatlantic.com] off guard. The U.S. has tax treaties with many developed countries, but they don't cover everything (as Boris Johnson found out). When I was working in Canada, my income was covered by a tax treaty so i just paid the higher of the two countries' income taxes. The Canadian taxes were higher so i paid that, and I was allowed to apply that payment as credit against my U.S. income tax bill. But unearned income (interest from bank accounts, stocks, etc) were not covered by the treaty. So i ended up having to live in the U.S. and commuting cross-border to work to avoid double taxation. Stuff like this is why a lot of wealthy Americans move out of the country and renounce their U.S. citizenship.
The details vary by country, what you're doing, and what your financial portfolio looks like. Consult with an international tax attorney if you find yourself in this position. (And if you're a California resident, be aware that California does not consider moving to another country to be moving out of the state. It will try to collect California income taxes on money you earn while living abroad. To get California off your heels you need to first move to another state and establish residency there, before moving out of the country. Try to make it a state which doesn't collect income tax, to make your life simpler.)
Re: (Score:2)
Usually you can deduct the foreign taxes you paid (including VAT). And foreign taxes are often higher than the US taxes so it works out well, but the paperwork is a mess (two tax forms, and itemize everything for the US if you want it deducted). But if you pick place with lower taxes than the US it often has a much lower quality of living and you can run into other problems. Ie, a higher tax country will usually give you health care in exchange for your taxes, the low tax country won't and may have relat
Wait: MONTREAL? (Score:2)
Uh, Montreal isn't exactly a digital backwater—a lot of Canada's biggest game studios are here. The WiFi is generally excellent, and the healthcare is pretty good. And it's only a couple hours away at most from the US border, so you can always leave if you want.
Re: (Score:2)
so you can always leave if you want.
Not sure what the border status is right now. Can you get back into the USA? Maybe as a citizen. But you certainly won't be returning to Canada. Borders are nasty things right now.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh yeah, it's basically shut down to normal traffic. But shipping traffic is still happening, and you can come into Canada if you're a citizen, you just have to quarantine for 2 weeks and the feds will check up on you to make sure you do. Going the other way is bound to be easier.
What? (Score:2)
Oh yeah, no place is as exotic as Montreal...
Do you want to live in humid heat and humid cold? Because that's how you live in humid heat and humid cold.
lolwut? (Score:1)
Seriously, wtf is this article even about? How I should feel sorry for them? Lots of people have it way, way worse. The only ones that deserved any kind of sympathy were the dogs. The one trapped by itself in Warsaw because its owner is an idiot, and the one that swallowed a gd tube sock because again this article is about idiot humans that wear "Make America Smart Again" hats.
What an incredibly stupid article (Score:2)
As for "digital nomads" most of them are fleeing cities they can't live in because their incomes haven't kept pace with inflation and crap like AirBnB means half the houses in their cities are short term rentals now. Most of what's left are properties being sat on by well to do Chinese & Canadians looking to park the
Re: What an incredibly stupid article (Score:2)
I wish 'em well... (Score:2)
...but I got problems of my own
seems a bit thin to base an article and discussion on, but I have a few minutes to burn
so... how 'bout the crazy weather we're having?
This article brought to you by ... (Score:3)
Seriously, the sort of people for whom this kind of arrangement will work well have done the ground work to do it years ago. Tax planning (for foreign locales) and properly structuring a contracting business take time and research. If you didn't have a plan in place when Covid hit, you are too late.
This isn't to say that having a nice cabin in the woods or second home in the country can't be a good place to wait for the pandemic to blow over.
Great effort (Score:1)
Hardly (Score:3)
Breakups and guilt are just life, but the tax thing is just sheer stupidity and bad preparation.