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The Almighty Buck Businesses

Techie Pay Approaches All-time High 361

Posted by CowboyNeal from the payday-still-good dept.
Stony Stevenson sent in this ITNews story which opens, "Techies were paid nearly record-high hourly wages in the third quarter, according to a new report released Thursday by staffing firm Yoh. Based on data compiled from 75 Yoh field offices and 5,000 technology professionals contracted in short and long-term projects, pay increased an average of more than 5.5 percent for the quarter ended Sept. 30, compared to the same period last year."
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Techie Pay Approaches All-time High More

Techie Pay Approaches All-time High

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  • Well duh (Score:5, Informative)

    by Reason58 ( 775044 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:26PM (#21122133)
    McDonald's workers were also paid more than any other time in history. If you are going to a study like this without adjusting for ever-present inflation, then of course you will constantly see new records.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by smclean ( 521851 )
      Has the dollar inflated 5.5% in the last year? Sounds unlikely to me, but IANAEconomist.. or even informed..

      • Re:Well duh (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @08:35PM (#21122905)
        Compared to what? Internationally or nationally? I don't know about the national inflation of the US, but when you compare the USD to other currencies from large markets, I'd say no, it didn't lose 5.5 percent of its value. It lost much more.
        • As much as the dollar has fallen, it's odd that inflation in the US isn't higher (except for gas, where we are feeling the weak dollar).

          • the Fed lies (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            ..they stopped publishing the most important aspects of money supply in the M3 stats. Different private orgs have attempted to reconstruct it, the ones I have seen both had the US running over 10% a year inflation,(12 really) significantly higher than the "official" stats they claim. Just pay attention to what you buy, you'll see it isn't a paltry 4 or 5 %. It's the main reason foreigners are doing the slow bailout from the dollar. The chinese were even blunter,in public,an "in your face" statement direct t

            • Re:the Fed lies (Score:5, Interesting)

              by moderatorrater ( 1095745 ) on Friday October 26, 2007 @04:43AM (#21126169)
              Insightful my ass. I used to work for the electric company, and then was a customer for them five years later. According to this AC, my electric bill should have been around 55% higher after 5 years, but my bill was strangely about the same (maybe up to 20% higher - maybe). Claiming that what China does is an indicator for the dollar is ridiculous considering the way they treat their own currency. When they let the value of the yuan fluctuate with the market, then you can use them as an indicator.

              And then you start rambling about grain. I remember a couple years back that there was a grain scare, where they said the price was going to skyrocket and it never did. As for paying what food costs, I'm all for it, I would rather pay at the grocery store for my food than pay through my taxes to get cheaper food from our farmers and to also pay them to leave land fallow.

              I also love the number of links you've put in your article and the complete lack of references. You read like someone saying that they've found a way to harvest free energy, or that you've disproved the theory of relativity - you throw out some terminology, make some up, confuse the hell out of people and then come to a conclusion.

              • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                by IamTheRealMike ( 537420 )
                It's a fact that M3 is no longer published by the Fed. They claim it is "no longer useful" or something ridiculous like that, but the timing is rather suspicious - it's well known that the dollar has been massively inflated to pay for the war in Iraq (just look at the Federal budget deficit). The AC doesn't provide references it's true, but just Google "fed m3" to get the gory details. Then compare the reconstructed M3 for the US to other countries like UK or Switzerland. You'll find that the less allied to
          • At least part of the reason that we are not feeling it is because many of those dollars are not circulating within the borders of the United States. If you want to purchase oil on the international market, a commodity which is increasingly in demand worldwide, then you need US dollars to purchase it since OPEC nations (and many other producers as well) take payment for their oil only in US dollars. The petro-dollars and the status of the US dollar as a worldwide reserve currency insulate Americans from some

      • Re:Well duh (Score:5, Informative)

        by Fallen Kell ( 165468 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @09:00PM (#21123123)
        Has the dollar inflated 5.5% in the last year? Sounds unlikely to me, but IANAEconomist.. or even informed..

        No just 9.4% against the British Pound
        13.2% against the Canadian Dollar
        11.1% against the Euro

        Need I go on? A 5.5% raise is still a 4-7% DECREASE in buying power verses the world economy.

        • Re:Well duh (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Z34107 ( 925136 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @09:24PM (#21123383)

          Need I go on? A 5.5% raise is still a 4-7% DECREASE in buying power verses the world economy.

          No it doesn't.

          A 5.5% raise means you have 5.5% more money.

          An 11.1% fall against the Euro means you have 11.1% less purchasing power when buying goods imported from Europe. You're not any "poorer" than they are.

          It also means our goods are 11.1% less expensive for Europeans, which means more exports and lessened trade deficit.

          Just because our currency lost value against another country's doesn't mean we're now "poorer" than they are.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ArcherB ( 796902 ) *
            Thank you for saying that. Seeing people who don't understand the difference between a falling dollar in relation to foreign currencies and inflation really bugs me.

            Also, may I add that a falling dollar makes outsourcing of labor less attractive as well. All of a sudden, those Indian tech support centers are not such a good deal for Dell that they once were. This may have something to do with American techies getting paid more. (although I have no idea what the exchange rate is between the dollar and wh

          • Re:Well duh (Score:5, Informative)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 25, 2007 @10:16PM (#21123849)
            As your currency goes down, you are in fact more poor: Wealth, income and purchasing power are all lower on a globally defined basis. Your domestically defined purchasing power is indeed higher compared to other countries domestically defined purchasing power, but given the rather grotesque trade deficit you're carrying, net-net it means you're gonna pay more for stuff overall.

            Granted, it also means that your assets (including labor) are cheaper on a global basis, and other countries will buy more of them when the bloodletting starts to end. But, you can't have it both ways. They will buy more of you and your stuff because, indeed, you are poorer.
          • The point is that in a global market, there is no such thing as "imported from XX". If it's imported, it suffers from your inflation. When there is a strong buying market area (and the EU is) that has a lower inflation than your market, it will swallow up resources, because they become "cheap" for them. The market will react and prices will rise to match the increased demand, resulting in higher importing costs. Whether you import from Europe or China doesn't matter in this scenario.

            And yes, your exports wo

          • Re:Well duh (Score:5, Insightful)

            by mrlibertarian ( 1150979 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @11:21PM (#21124363)
            An 11.1% fall against the Euro means you have 11.1% less purchasing power when buying goods imported from Europe.

            Huh? Doesn't it mean dollar holders lose, in general, 11.1% of their purchasing power for any good that could be sold on the global market?

            For example, imagine a world in which you could buy one gold ounce for 1000 dollars, or one gold ounce for 1000 euros. In that case, the exchange rate would probably be 1:1. If the exchange rate were to ever go to 2:1, everyone would instantly have an arbitrage opportunity: Sell 1 gold ounce for 1000 euros, exchange those euros for 2000 dollars, and buy 2 gold ounces, for a profit of 1 gold ounce. But market action like that would quickly drive the exchange ratio back to 1:1.

            So, if the exchange ratio were to ever go to 2:1, we could reason that either 1) the new exchange ratio will be short lived or 2) we will see a general price increase of 100%, in terms of dollars, on goods that could be (but will not necessarily be) exchanged on the global market. You seem to be treating the exchange rate as though it is unrelated to domestic prices, but perhaps I don't understand your position.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by tyrione ( 134248 )
            We have nearly a $1 Trillion trade deficit. We import more than we export. So yes, either our domestic goods aren't selling at advantageous prices/value or we indeed are seeing a Drop in Buying Power. The fact is, the cost of Goods and Services in the US for US only services exceeds the cost of living adjustment. With our trade deficit we aren't seeing inflation because most of the offset in corporations comes from the investments abroad these corporations have heavily invested within the past decade. Take

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by PhxBlue ( 562201 )

            Just because our currency lost value against another country's doesn't mean we're now "poorer" than they are.
            Doesn't it, though? Whence do oil companies purchase light, sweet crude for our gasoline? How many of the goods in our stores are made in China?
        • Yes, and 29% vs gold and 46% vs moon rock.

          It was pretty absurd that americans could stay at a top hotel in europe for the price of a Motel 6 back home. The dollar adjustment seems like a long overdue correction.

      • Has the dollar inflated 5.5% in the last year?
        Yes, and probably more. Have a look for the M3 or MZM money supply [wikipedia.org] figures.

        According to this graph [seekingalpha.com] the annualised rate of increase is hovering around 10%
      • Oil, gold and just about every commodity has seen large jumps in price over the past year. Core inflation [bls.gov] is basically up 2.8 percent over the measurement last year, which discards food and oil prices. Food is up 4.8 percent and oil 5.3.

        More importantly:

        Consumer prices increased at a seasonally adjusted annual rate (SAAR) of 1.0 percent in the third quarter of 2007, following increases in the first and second quarters at annual rates of 4.7 and 5.2 percent,

        Wages are sticky -- they take time to adjust to market forces, for a large number of reasons, including "IANAEconomist". This suggests to me that wages were partly up 5.5 percent because of inflation, and if the credit crunch hadn't had a large effect on th

    • Speaking of McDonalds, remember when tech workers actually got SALARIES, you know, or benefits ?

      Or when they worked for companies who wanted them to stay on a semi-permanent basis, as opposed to move along every 6-12 months.

      Of course I'm still young and relatively cheap, so I still get to work for a company instead of a staffing agency. Hey, I mean, everyone loves a junior guy on salary, after all they're "better" programmers since they have no families, less cynicism, and in the end get paid less per

    • Double doh. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MikeFM ( 12491 )
      Maybe in Australia techs are well paid. I don't think they are here in the US.

      I make less than I did 10 years ago and my cost of living is at least twice as much and the skill and experience required is far far more than what was required 10 years ago. My experience is that most companies these days are rather cheap when it comes to paying their geeks. I didn't even go for the high paying job offers I had back then - if I had, then I would have been making 6 or 7 times what I'm making now. To many wannabes

  • In other news... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:27PM (#21122141)
    From TFA:
    > Compared to the same months in 2006, hourly wages for techies in 2007 rose 6 percent in July, 4.64 percent in August, and 5.79 percent in September.

    Compared to the value of the US dollar against every major currency in 2006, hourly wages for US-based techies are still down 5-10% year over year.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sholden ( 12227 )
      So you compare it with inflation.

      Remember that the CPI calculation got changed so not include the very things that people spend their money on and go up in price - which makes sense since there are a bunch of things indexed to the CPI numbers so it's in the interests of those who calculate them to keep them low.

      http://www.shadowstats.com/ [shadowstats.com] or for the even more pessimistic formula: http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif [shadowstats.com]
    • The single biggest cost for most people is housing. Housing cannot be offshored, and the housing market is actually depressed compared to last year.

  • the exchange rate (Score:5, Funny)

    by User 956 ( 568564 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:27PM (#21122147) Homepage
    pay increased an average of more than 5.5 percent for the quarter ended Sept. 30, compared to the same period last year.

    Yeah, but it's in American Dollars, so the amount actually decreased.
    • In other news... by Tackhead (54550) Friend of a FriendFoe of a Friend on Thursday October 25, @08:27PM (#21122141)

      /me shakes fist at Tackhead

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mi ( 197448 )

      Yeah, but it's in American Dollars, so the amount actually decreased.

      Amount of what? Of computers? Of TVs? Of cars? Of T-shirts?

      The inflation is related to the value of currency against others, but that's not the whole of it... The stuff made in the US — and in dollar-pegged countries such as China — is not getting more expensive automatically, when the dollar falls against euro.

      • Re:the exchange rate (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @08:26PM (#21122821)
        Indirectly, they do. Because resources become more expensive.

        The USD is a global currency. Thus, you don't feel it as directly as another country when it goes down in inflation. But when some large market isn't affected by the same inflation, like China or even more so the EU, since their market is not as tightly tied to the US market as China's, you notice it with prices for resources going up, since they will more easily be able to afford those resources, and, well, supply and demand, their demand increases due to subjectively sinking prices. The price "increases" (for the EU it remains mostly stable, though, since the EUR gets stronger compared to the USD) to match this increased demand, which in turn means that resources become more expensive for the US.

        So yes, in a very indirect way, the amount decreases. The amoung of everything. As it was mentioned already, the US production is highly dependent on imports. Imports of resources but also import of goods, both of which become more expensive due to a softer USD.
        • This will be directly reflected in the actual inflation numbers. There is no need to attempt to discern inflation through currency imbalance, and can be quite misleading, given the fluidity of exports (or indeed selecting not to import) extant in the markets today.

          C//
          • It's different for the US. If this was any country, I'd agree with you, but the US is in the unique position of brushing off its inflation to the rest of the globe, at least to some degree. Because the USD reserves in all countries become less valuable, thus fending off any inflation the US generates.

            This has worked wonders in past years. It doesn't anymore. Until a few years ago, the USD was the only viable currency for international trade, and as long as this was the case, the US could easily ignore any i
            • While I follow your presentation perfectly, I don't see how you are coupling the exchange rate internationally to inflation domestically. If you are arguing that ought to be and indeed will end up linked, that's fine, but one need not speculate, one need only look to the domestic inflation figures. Speculation and even seemingly valid logic can be confounded by many factors in a complex system. Best to look to the actual results.

              I'm reminded of a long, long argument I once had about condo appreciation. This
              • The EU will change that. It will have to. With the USD getting softer and softer (during the last few weeks we had .5 cents a week average, hardly hyperinflation but it would mean 25 cents per year and dollar, and 25% inflation doesn't sound too comforting), countries will sooner or later start to worry and try to shift their foreign reserves. This will put more stress on the Euro (and the Dollar), it would even increase the Dollar inflation if the EU does not react, and that is not really beneficial for th

  • Unfortunately for American workers (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Average_Joe_Sixpack ( 534373 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:27PM (#21122149)
    Oil and most other necessities are also at record highs.

  • I'm in the wrong business... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by corychristison ( 951993 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:30PM (#21122191)

    ...translated to an average hourly tech worker wage of US$31.80.
    Among the hottest skills being demanded right now by Yoh clients are Java and .Net developers, database administrators, SAP functional and technical consultants, and project managers, said Jim Lanzalotto, Yoh's VP of strategy and marketing. Last quarter, SAP consultants on average earned US$88.07 per hour, while Java developers earned US$50.89, per hour, according to Yoh's research.
    read the subject
  • The first IT bubble taught us one thing: what's a good idea and what's a bad idea. Now that we figured that out, a second wave of technology money is washing over the world, only this time it's slower, more calculated, and less dumb. With articles all over the place saying that kids aren't getting into IT anymore, salaries will keep going up for skilled tech-savvy individuals who can get the job done.

    The experimentation is over folks, it's time to get some real work done, and get paid handsomely for it sinc

    • I dunno, I've thought about it a million times, and when it comes down to it our only real skills are memorization, problem domain reduction, patience, discipline, and critical thought ... which boils fairly well down to critical thought. Once I come to that conclusion, I can't help but wonder if I even want to be so rare.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by pla ( 258480 )
        our only real skills are memorization, problem domain reduction, patience, discipline, and critical thought

        I would agree with that completely. Anyone who focuses on specific skills such as language-X or web-platform-Y just doesn't "get" it.

        However, at least two of those "skills", critical thought and problem domain reduction (I like that term - Your own phrasing, or the newest buzzword for the same ol' idea?), not everyone has the capacity to learn.

        Not a matter of dedication or intelligence, I've kn

  • Where? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by damn_registrars ( 1103043 ) <damn.registrars@gmail.com> on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:36PM (#21122291) Homepage Journal
    This is a link to a news source in Australia. They then link to informationweek.com, who is in the US. But I've never heard of the company who runs the survey they are talking about, so I have no way to know who was surveyed about their wages.
    • Evidently they interviewed a large group of IT professionals working at McDonalds, Burger King and Taco Bell.

      Ya want friez wiz dat?

  • Except in Broadcast Engineering... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Newer Guy ( 520108 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:38PM (#21122303)
    Pay there is DROPPING about 5% a year-both in actual pay and in the amount of responsibility for the same pay. As (clueless) broadcasting groups buy more stations, they expect the existing tech. staff to assume the burden of the extra work-with no more pay or assistance. The pay used to work out to about $15K per station. Then it dropped to 12K. Now it's at about $9K, which means that the average radio broadcast engineer makes about $60K for servicing 7 stations. This many stations means that all he's doing is running around putting out fires all the time.
    • Well, judging from the technical quality of my cable feeds, they should get less pay. I'm frequently seeing commercials cut in over other commercials, loss of signal, and severe weather and missing child alerts for foreign countries. Sheesh! Can't they separate a syndication feed from a broadcast feed?
    • Reminds me of a wISP in Kansas i worked for. They have a great admin who (im told by a few sources) makes about 20 bucks an hour. No benefits (the assholes with their own offices, who get very, very little done, ooooooh full benefits, with a phone and gas allowance). He came in when they had about 400 customers in 3 service areas. Now they have (last I heard) more like 1500 in a dozen areas, and hes the *only* admin. In addition to having more, crappy work to deal with because the service areas the company

  • I don't think they said USA wages (Score:3, Informative)

    by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:40PM (#21122335)
    They may mean USA, or maybe they mean wages in India?

    The hottest skills sound about right. But, if you don't have 5 years recent experience already, you can forget about those area: SAP, Project Management, database administrators.

    -shameless plug-
    Please feel free to view my research on IT wages, collected in the Denver area, go here:

    http://it-careers.pbwiki.com/ [pbwiki.com]

    And click on "IT Salary Survey"

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by tompaulco ( 629533 )
      But, if you don't have 5 years recent experience already, you can forget about those area: SAP, Project Management, database administrators.
      You're spang-on there. I used to be a hotshot datawarehouse architect billing $100/hour. Then 9/11 hit and I had to take $anyoldjob which did not even involve databases. Now, my database skills are 6 years old, and I haven't a prayer of getting hired for a datawarehouse position. Now, mind you, I had a natural aptitude for relation databases, and went from 0 to eclips

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JanneM ( 7445 )
      Well, in how many fields could you expect to be paid high wages as an entry-level beginner, with little experience and no specialty?
    • Thanks for the salary review on your website. I'll be sure to forward that to my boss.

      I live in Casper and I'm now officially depressed.

  • Hard to compare (Score:3, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:42PM (#21122365)
    It's hard to know what conclusions to draw from this sort of thing unless they have a very well thought out metric and collect it consistently from year to year. For instance, the US has been gradually moving away from long-term employment with a regular paycheck and benefits (such as a pension and paid vacation) and towards contracting with fewer benefits and stability. I would certainly expect these contractors to receive more cash per hour, but that isn't the whole picture.

  • Contractor versus Full-Time (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gybrwe666 ( 1007849 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:43PM (#21122385)
    The other problem with this comparison is that this is only looking at contractor pay, not full-time employee salaries. As full disclosure, I work for a firm that provides IT Staffing as one of its services. Yes, certain in-demand skill sets are getting big bucks. Where I work locally, there have been so many positions posted for various C programmers that we simply can't find anymore, and the ones who will move for a short term or mid-term project are asking and, by and large, getting ridiculous salaries.

    But when we do full-time placements, I'm not seeing a big increase. Not only that, but the majority of positions we filled this year were full-time placements.

    So I think saying they are at an all-time high needs to be qualified: for certain contractors, which are the jobs where companies like Yoh are most likely to be placing candidates.

    Bill

  • Well duh. The H1-B visa expansion is also expiring (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:45PM (#21122407)
    People forget that each H1-B visa lasts for basically 7 years. And that the limits were wildly expanded during the dot-com boom. Starting in 2000, they went from 65,000 to 130,000. And this continued well after the dot-com bust had happened. It was only in 2004 that the limits went back down to 65,000.

    Since this limit wasn't expanded this year (yet), that means lots of H1-Bs are starting to go home. This is why all of the visas that were issued in April were gobbled up in a single day. And none of this is something that you'll see in the mainstream press.

    So a lot of H1-B's are going home this year. The local labor market WILL get tighter, and wages WILL rise.

    If the limits aren't expanded this year, it's unlikely they'll be expanded next year either, as that's a major election year.

    If Hillary Clinton is elected though (which seems likely), you can expect them to again be doubled, as she's been aggressively promoting their expansion, even on her current website.

    So, expect wages to go up, while the H1-B's go home. And enjoy it while it lasts, as it won't last forever.

    It's just more proof that H1-B's are all about cheap labor and not about a lack of talent.
    • So a lot of H1-B's are going home this year. The local labor market WILL get tighter, and wages WILL rise.
      But, but, but that's IMPOSSIBLE. Because H1-Bs are paid PREVAILAING WAGES and are only necessary because there is INSUFFICIENT LOCAL TALENT!

      Maybe I should check back and see if I can get that contracting job back that I lost to the H1-B.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mh1997 ( 1065630 )

        Because H1-Bs are paid PREVAILAING WAGES and are only necessary because there is INSUFFICIENT LOCAL TALENT!

        I believe there is "insufficient local talent" because most of the applicants that I see look good on paper, but lack at least one critical skill for the job (programming and engineering positions). FYI, I get about 25 - 50 applicants per job opening, and after a preliminary technical interview, feel lucky if I can call back 1 person. In my experience the American education system is failing the st

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by billcopc ( 196330 )
          If you're having that much difficulty staffing your positions, maybe you need to rethink the requirements. You don't need an all-star team to run a tech shop, you really just need one star and a gaggle of willing juniors.

          • Re:Well duh. The H1-B visa expansion is also expir (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @09:20PM (#21123329) Homepage Journal
            Bingo - How do you think that people get experience? The WoW fairy?

            Eventually wages will rise to the point that american businesses realize something they should of been thinking about years ago - You need people of all skill levels. Apprentices are necessary.

            Heck, I was shocked to see that the USAF is finally acknowledging that - they would ramp up tech school training, give huge bonuses to keep people in(and get them in), then proceed to force people out when they went over their requirements. Result: Fields were unbalanced, with either too many higher ups or too many juniors. Now they're finally accepting that while things might be a little more 'unbalanced' in the short term, plotting further into the future is a good thing. Because then they can adjust course with a tap instead of a sledge.

            Businesses need to realize this as well - while you might loose 80% of your apprentices to other jobs, you should keep at least some of them. Provide the right benefits and treat them right, and you might keep over half of those you want - making the program worth it as you collect talent from the beginning.
            • In my experience, most of the time the problem is not experience in advanced skills: those can be taught anyway. The problem tends to be the very basics, which most people from my graduating college class had in 1999. Many of the applicants seem to be unable to show much curiosity in an interview, and state that their goal is to be running the department in a matter of 3 or 4 years.

              When it's hard to find talent for entry level positions, I can't imagine what it can be to have to replace someone with 10 year

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Duhavid ( 677874 )
          I have worked at a couple of places ( San Diego, CA ),
          where I have been part of the process of selecting candidates
          for available positions. In my recollection, we had
          sufficient qualified candidates for these positions, and
          were always able to fill them. Now, there are lots of
          candidates who look good on paper, and are not in
          practice. No doubt. It is real work finding people,
          they are not going to jump in your lap.

          Could it be that your company was offering low wages,
          and keeping talent away? Is there somethi
        • Well, when I look at the list of requirements posted by many companies, I become acutely aware that it would be an extreme statistical improbability that anyone could have had the exact duration and breadth of experience that they mandate. In fact, it almost seems that they are being deliberately over-qualifying the position in order to avoid hiring local talent. One almost expects one of the requirements to read "must hold engineering degree from little-known Indian university."
          I'll not get into the posti
        • The thing is, you're in a very narrow market. You're failing to find the people you need, possibly because their talents are already put to work elsewhere. Or perhaps you're simply over-discounting the ability of a good engineer to learn new domains. Nobody wants to know ACPI unless they have to, but that doesn't mean they can't spend time reading the specs and do a good job making things.

          On the other hand, I've seen seminars on how to advertise for a position and meet "insufficient local talent" laws, beca

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ErikZ ( 55491 ) *

          Why is it so terrible to learn ONE new skill on the job? Do you only hire robots?
    • It's just more proof that H1-B's are all about cheap labor and not about a lack of talent.

      Uh, that's like saying: "It's just more proof that one is smaller than two, and not that two is larger than one."

      It doesn't make sense. Simple supply and demand - when talent of a particular flavor is lacking, the price for that talent climbs. People who pay for that talent probably want to increase supply and reduce demand. Those who have that talent want to decrease supply and increase demand.

      Econ 101. Come back when
    • Since this limit wasn't expanded this year (yet), that means lots of H1-Bs are starting to go home. So a lot of H1-B's are going home this year. The local labor market WILL get tighter, and wages WILL rise.
      H-1B extensions are not counted towards the quota. People are going back because there are more growth opportunities in India and getting a Green Card is simply taking too long these days. No one wants to work as a software engineer for 6-10 years anymore just to get a Green Card. In India you can bec

  • Not adjusted for real estate and security. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Baldrson ( 78598 ) * on Thursday October 25, 2007 @07:52PM (#21122471) Homepage Journal
    If you look at "techie wages" adjusted for the increased price of real estate in places like Silicon Valley, and the lessening of the security of those wages, especially approaching middle age, then you see the real reason why mere propaganda isn't going to draw young people into tech fields ever again.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )
      If you look at "techie wages" adjusted for the increased price of real estate in places like Silicon Valley, and the lessening of the security of those wages, especially approaching middle age, then you see the real reason why mere propaganda isn't going to draw young people into tech fields ever again.

      Amen! IT is a churn-and-burn career that is always changing, cyclical, and is not very secure for older workers who do not enter management. Investments that are risky usually pay more, and IT should be the

  • CAD? (Score:5, Funny)

    by loconet ( 415875 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @08:07PM (#21122615) Homepage
    That translated to an average hourly tech worker wage of US$31.80

    What is that in CAD? a loonie or so an hour?

  • Too bad that doesn't keep up with inflation. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by voisine ( 153062 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @08:09PM (#21122655)
    Too bad inflation is at 18%, as measured by the increase in the money supply. 10-15% measured by price increases, if you include the stuff the FED likes to leave out, you know, like housing, fuel, college education, health care, unimportant stuff like that which the average techie doesn't spend much of his income on.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by OakLEE ( 91103 )
      Just to address a few specific claims.

      Housing: Housing prices are not increasing? Did you see the losses all of the banks took this quarter? It's because of all of the people who defaulted on mortgages they could not afford to pay. Those people cannot afford to pay because they have no equity in their homes to refinance. They have no equity in their homes because property values have declined by as much as 15% in the last year in some parts of the country. Those houses they walked away from; they are
  • Hmm, doesn't look like most people here have a strong rostral anterior cingulate and amygdala [slashdot.org]

  • Inflation etc (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cartman ( 18204 ) on Thursday October 25, 2007 @09:52PM (#21123631)

    The actual data [yoh.com] indicates that during 2001-2006 tech salaries grew at 1-2% (which is less than inflation), and during 2006-2007 they grew at at 5% (which is more than inflation).

    An obvious hypothesis is that the techie market was in disarray following the dotcom meltdown, during which techies lost real (inflation-adjusted) income. But now the market has recovered, and techies are experiencing wage gains faster than inflation because of cyclic recovery and pent-up demand.

    Note that techie salaries are still below their Y2001 levels in inflation-adjusted terms. But then again, techie salaries were probably abnormally high during that period.

    None of this is really that surprising.

    • The actual data indicates that during 2001-2006 tech salaries grew at 1-2% (which is less than inflation), and during 2006-2007 they grew at at 5% (which is more than inflation). ...
      Note that techie salaries are still below their Y2001 levels in inflation-adjusted terms.

      I'm making more money than ever before in my life, but still struggling with consumer debt, driving a nearly decade-old car, and living in a house that's valued on the tax roles far more that I could ever sell it for, and it needs extensive

  • Oh really? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by pkcuff ( 1147375 )
    Out-of-pocket expenses that were once the domain of the employer are not only the employee's responsibility now, but they're also at an all-time high. Health insurance for yourself and your family? You have got to be kidding. Too bad I can't tolerate the cold, I'd move to Canada. Or maybe I should move to Mexico, get my Mexican citizenship, and then sneak back in. Then I'd have healthcare.

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