Most Votes
- Will ByteDance be forced to divest TikTok Posted on March 20th, 2024 | 8817 votes
- What's the highest dollar price will Bitcoin reach in 2024? Posted on February 28th, 2024 | 8483 votes
Most Comments
- What's the highest dollar price will Bitcoin reach in 2024? Posted on February 28th, 2024 | 68 comments
- Will ByteDance be forced to divest TikTok Posted on February 28th, 2024 | 20 comments
No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
Spock, peering into his sensor gadget on the console, remarked: "Fascinating. A wooden spaceship. I have never seen organic matter this dense."
By that stardate, knowledge of contemporary politicians had apparently been lost.
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:4, Insightful)
Or Rick Berman and other Paramount executives...
[i]Star Trek[/i] didn't have to suck. It only started to suck when Rick Berman, Michael Piller, Jeri Taylor, and Brannon Braga wrote most of the episodes and directed the various series into long-running arcs...
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:4, Insightful)
Berman and Braga though ruined Enterprise, the Xindi shouldn't have happened but the Earth/Romulan war, etc.
I refuse to even talk about the "final" episode that just wasn't worth it and demeaning to all the other actors
Enterprise: Final Season (Score:5, Insightful)
Amen to that -- the final season had some mini-arcs which were actually aimed at what the goal of the series was in the first place -- to lay the foundation of the Federation and give the fans a glimpse of the old days. You got to see augments, Romulans, and an earlier planet Vulcan. It even hand the Orions -- mind you, a great many people didn't like the episode with the Orions in it, but at least it was something from the past! I blame part of it on Archer's attempt at acting "all worked up." He just doesn't play the dangerous, macho guy very well.
If Enterprise had started with the final season, people would have looked much more favorably upon the series as a whole. Instead, viewers were first poisoned by the "temporal cold war," the Xindi, and most shamefully, time-traveling Nazi space aliens. While I enjoyed the Xindi arc, a lot of fans were alienated by the nonsensical-but-convenient premise and its complete dissociation with the Star Trek lore. What's the point of making a prequel if it has nothing to do with its successors? By the time Manny Coto started salvaging some of Enterprise's image with worthwhile stories, it was too late.
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Insightful)
Case in point: Season 6 Episode Ep 19 - In the Pale Moonlight. Sisko basically condones and all but helps Garak assassinate an otherwise innocent Romulan Diplomat to convince the Romulans to enter the war against the Dominion. He hates himself for it afterward, but he never comes clean about it like any other good little trek character would, since the ends justified the means.
Funny how the majority of trek actors & writers with decent post-trek gigs came from DS9...
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
Other MASSIVE SPOILERS:
Kirk lets Edith Keeler die in "City on the Edge of Forever"
The Federation wins the Dominion War
Voyager makes it home
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:4, Funny)
Luckily, with Wesley off skiing in Calgary, the rest of the idiots on Enterprise-D couldn't figure out a way to end the war in a few minutes. This left us with some good TV.
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
A: The Captain's log.
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
A. Teflon - because he's always fighting Klingons.
Original Trek is definitely best for jokes. Where's the funny in 'Tea, Earl Grey, Hot'?
badum-tish.
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
They're not making it any more - its in suspended animation, you ignorant clod :-)
Re:No Option For The Film Years? (Score:5, Funny)
*Eye's the screen and see's the mouse*
*Picks up the mouse* Hello computer?
*Eye's the screen and see's the keyboard*
*Sigh* A keyboard, how quaint. *Cracks knuckles*
You Cowboy Bastards, You've Subsumed My Genre! (Score:5, Funny)
ST:VOY (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Insightful)
I haven't seen it all the way through yet, but I'm convinced Neelix is going to turn out to be one of the "we don't talk about them" Cylons.
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Funny)
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Funny)
You can't blame Seven. As the Doctor said, not all of the Borg implants could be removed.
Re:Missing Option (Score:4, Insightful)
Voyager (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Voyager (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not sure if you're trying to be humorous about the Janeway/Seven lesbian subtext or not. I always viewed it as more of a parent/child relationship. Though she was in her late 20s when freed from the Borg, Seven had a lot of catch-up learning to do and Janeway filled in as a parental and authority figure. I do agree about the Janeway going slightly mad substory. That was usually fairly interesting.
Honestly, I enjoyed Voyager quite a lot. Most of the characters were good and more importantly they focused a lot on the interpersonal relationships between the group. And they actually explored. A lot! I always felt the writers were a bit to quick to jump into action mode as compared to what Roddenberry's vision of Trek would have, but I appreciated the "exciting new locations" found in most episodes.
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Funny)
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Funny)
That's certainly a visual I didn't need..... ew.
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Interesting)
Amen! And they even went to planets, too! I think TNG spent way too much time in space and not nearly eanough time voyaging to strange new worlds. Enterprise was nothing more than Rick F. Berman's attempt to remove the Original Series as canon. They would have been better off doing just about anything else. Well, I say that, but since the new movie is supposedly the adventure of the Original series as youngsters, I may have spoken too soon.
I would love to see a new show that simply tells different stories from within the ST Universe. Instead of having a single ship almost getting blown up or taken over week after week after week, tell a different story each week, with new characters, locales, etc. Sort of like a Twighlight Zone in that each episode stands alone, only remaining faithful to the ST Universe itself.
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Insightful)
Disagreed. TNG's lack of obsession of voyaging to new worlds every week made it an extremely refreshing departure from the relatively tedious (after a while) TOS. Episodes like the one where Q lets Picard go back and change his childhood, for example, or where they pick up a human boy that has been adopted by aliens and you see how he and Picard interact, are what made TNG great (IMHO).
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Funny)
But, on the off chance that someone at Paramount is reading this, you can have my idea. Completely and utterly for free with no need to recompense me with credit, money, or anything else. Just do it. Please.
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Interesting)
Deep Space 9 was almost a case where they were forced to use Old and broken technology, so in order for them to win they needed to use their minds and used what tech they had. There is very little new technology from Deep Space 9.
Star Trek the Next Generation had some of this new technological achievements. But it was more of an engineering problem then making a brand new science every episode. Lets try to electrify the hold. Lets reroute the power here and fix the problems it occurs later. But voyage it was like they made something new that would take normal scientists years of development in 30 minutes (15 reserved to starting to get the plot) and (15 minutes using it)
TOS: wall all about tactics, technology was only a tool to get them from point A-B and have enough firepower to deal with the enemies.
Enterprise: Had a chance but they got to much tech to fast.
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem I found with Voyager was the insane use of technology. This group of misfits have seemed to advance technology about 20 years. Oh Crap how do we solve this problem... Lets use technology and make something completely new. It is like they took a comment from Deep Space 9 about how federation Engineers can turn rocks into replicators, and took it to the extreme. Oh yea the ship can do that we kinda forgot about that when it wasn't our last option, Even though this option may have saved our butts a lot quicker...
There was a much bigger problem, something they didn't exploit or explore frequently enough...
A state of the art starship, with limited resources and personnel wind up in an unknown quadrant of the universe and yet throughout their lengthy voyage, they are in a mostly perfect state of repair and with adequate staffing! I'm pretty sure that During TOS and TNG, the starships would likely go to star bases of some sort for repairs and such frequently through those stories time lines. But in voyager we have this vessel with no star port at which to affect repairs, without the staffing to conduct them, yet which 7 years later, barely has a scratch on it's paint.
I would have much preferred to see them limp through the cosmos, barely crossing the finish line, nacelles held together with wood and gray duct tape.
Ignoring that, surely, they must have at least run out of red shirts!
Space is big and close for warp drive... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sphere Surface Area = 4 x pi x r^2 exploration pattern of earth
Sphere Volume = 4/3 x pi x r^3 exploration pattern of space
The difference between r^2 to r^3 when you are saying say exploring 10 light years around earth. So with Fictional Warp Speed of about 1000x speed of light you are rarely ever a week away from earth. Plus also with say a thousand ships in a fleet exploration of such an area will still take a long time. For example make a large circle in MsPain. Choose a 1 pixel thick pen and try to fill the circle with your mouse. it takes a fare amount of time now having that in a sphere pattern it will be much longer....
Re:ST:VOY (Score:4, Funny)
Voyager: We are a s mall open source community. No market or regulatory body to please. Just make it work the best it can for THIS ship. We have the tech - lets implement it.
DS9: We are Windows users forced to use antiquated Macs, Commodores, 286's, ZX80's, supercomputers - all mashed up inside one station. And just as they somehow manage to make it all work - along comes a Ferengi with a box full of punch cards.
ST-TNG: We use WinNT as regulated by Federation. What?
TOS: We use pencils. (I can't recall which episode it was, but as Kirk said to a crewman to calculate the course - he takes out the No.2 pencil. A yellow one with a eraser on it.
Enterprise: We are using transistors and analog tech but for some strange reason it often works and looks better then the tech from the future (TOS). I guess we are just that good, ha?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Mind you I couldn't figure out how they ran into the same Kaizons on multiple occasions in the 1st season. The race, ok but why would they see the same individuals? They are heading in a more or less straight line from the site of the 1st encounter aboard a faster ship than any in the Kaizon fl
Re:ST:VOY (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, the Vulcan (lack of emotion) thing is a major hindrance as an actor. And whereas Leonard Nimoy pulled it off so well you never noticed, Blalock came across as stiff (giggity) and lame. She sounded as if she was reading her lines while under sedation. I stopped watching pretty early in. Maybe they addressed that stuff, but I couldn't bear to watch it anymore. I think I left after sitting through T'Pol was demonstrating her ancient Vulcan karate move, which consisted of a forward roll on the ground. "...use only if absolutely necessary!" Can't we splurge on an hour consult with Yuen Wo Ping? Give me a break.
Voyager (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Voyager (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Voyager (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Voyager (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree. First Contact did that. Before First Contact, the Borg were entirely faceless. If you killed one, then the one behind it would take its place. If you destroyed a cube, the next cube would have the all of the knowledge of the one you destroyed and would be harder to kill. You couldn't reason with them, because they didn't think the same way you did; individuals were irrelevant to the collective consciousness.
In First Contact, the Borg got a face and a leader. They were a lot less frightening, because they were suddenly understandable. You could think of the Borg in human terms.
Re:Voyager (Score:5, Insightful)
As I understood it (before the queen appeared), the Borg Collective is truely what it sounds like. A collective of interchangable drones, every single one capable of replacing any other one should it fail. Maybe the worst enemy you could possibly think of. No command structure to break, no supply line to cut, no option but to fight every single one of them because even if you killed 99% of them, destroyed their planets, raided their ships, every single ship is still as deadly as it was before, every single drone has to be killed to be rendered harmless. A horrible enemy. Usually, in a war, you only have to fight down the defenses until you can eliminate the enemy's leader(s) or break the spirit of your enemy. Without a leader or spirit, you have to fight every single one of them.
With the queen, they presented a very convenient single point of failure (which, btw, is about as nonsensical as it can be for the Borg who were told time and again to have attained complete redundancy in every facet of their makeup). The enemy quite suddenly lost all intimidating potential it had for me.
Re:Voyager (Score:5, Interesting)
The writing of Voyager was sometimes brilliant, but it was rarely enough to overcome a cast of such forgettable (and in Janeway's case, annoying and self-righteous) characters.
What's Star Trek? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What's Star Trek? (Score:5, Funny)
I heartily suggest you watch this video [youtube.com] from Extras, featuring Patrick Stewart...
The last bit most likely applies to you =(
TNG doesn't stand up (Score:3, Insightful)
The Deanna and her mom subplots are grating. Turning the cast into children? Wesley is smarter than the entire command structure? Data's Evil twin? Come on! They even ruined the Borg by completely changing their nature into individuals so they could put them into every other episode.
The only thing TNG got right was the Klingon and Romulan subplots. I think Worf's back story and old world family ties were the heights of the series (with the MAJOR exception of his stupid kid).
Re:TNG doesn't stand up (Score:4, Informative)
quite right (Score:4, Insightful)
But I've changed my mind. I still watch episodes of TOS with pleasure, even though I must have seen every one at least ten times. But apparently one viewing of a TNG episode is enough for me.
I can only surmise why. Perhaps it's because TOS is a flat-out goofball funfest kind of show. It doesn't really aim to edify or preach (or if it does, it does in terms only someone born in the 1930s can detect). It just aims to be a whale of good time, rocketships and adventure and green-skinned girls and all. On the other hand, TNG seems to have this more conscious attempt to teach. And as yet Alzheimer's has not yet made me appreciate being given moral instruction from a bunch of actors and screenwriters, Hollywood trash.
Maybe it's just that TOS seems like a Heinlein rocketship novel, mostly good fun with the odd philosophical speculation to chew on, if you want to. You can read the novel over and over again with pleasure. But TNG seems like a textbook. Good, yes, and worth reading once. But not what you pick up at the end of the day, before bed, for a little light distraction.
Captains, kings and queens (Score:5, Insightful)
I've always thought TNG, at its best, was the very best Star Trek.
TNG had a few clunker episodes. So did TOS, though it had some incredibly good episodes too. It also has a few episodes that have not aged well, but after 40 years I can cut it some slack. I remember watching it when I was little. It was on after my bed time, by my Mom and Dad let me stay up late to watch it. Thought it might do me some good. :-)
After TNG it was downhill for me. DS9 had its moments. Voyager was unwatchable. I wondered why they bothered with Enterprise.
Speaking of Voyager: while lots was made of the Captain, she just didn't have command presense for me. Patrick Stewart has played kings, and played Picard as a king. A captain must have that regal, command presence. Dr. Crusher had it, and made a convincing queen when she was (all too briefly) in command; Janeway didn't.
...laura
Original was best: had minimal technobabble (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Technobabble Disease (Score:3, Insightful)
Watch the new "Doctor Who," for example, and think about how often the Doctor pulls a last minute save out of his arse with a few odd phrases and the magical sonic screwdriver or the sentient all-powerful TARDIS.
When did "science fiction" become "vaguely sciencey-sounding" fiction? I missed the announcement.
Re:Technobabble Disease (Score:5, Funny)
The announcement was transmitted by modifying the main deflector to emit an inverse tachyon pulse. Your planet's iron core must have caused too much interference.
Re:Original was best: had minimal technobabble (Score:5, Funny)
You're remembering it through rose colored glasses. The original series had just as much technobabble. And they were usually much less based on real science. In "The Naked Time" Spock comes up with some technobabble about a "relationship between anti-matter and time" to cold start the engines, which ends up sending them three days into the past. In "Mirror, Mirror" Scotty talks about how the transporter is "balanced for four" people, which means all four of them must return to their own universe...
Then there's my absolute favorite, which happens in "Court Martial." Kirk explains how the audio sensors on the enterprise will be able to pick up everyone's hearbeats, thanks to a special amplifier which will be able to magnify any sound by some factor "on the order of one to the fourth power."
Re:Original was best: had minimal technobabble (Score:5, Funny)
Kirk had no time for this science nonsense. There were green women out there, and he needed to explore their universe!
Re:Original was best: had minimal technobabble (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Original was best: had minimal technobabble (Score:4, Funny)
Really, if they had gone for a '60s retro-future, Enterprise would have been way more entertaining.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Original was best: had minimal technobabble (Score:5, Insightful)
Deep Space Nine - Trek Underappreciated (Score:5, Insightful)
One other point - DS9 was the training ground for writers, director, and producers in many successful sci-fi series since: Battlestar Galactica, The 4400, and many more. The concepts and characters trialed in DS9 have been fully developed in these critically acclaimed successors.
So, what I'm say is this - don't dismiss DS9 out of hand... give it chance before you hate it. ^_^
Just my 2 cents...
Re:Deep Space Nine - Trek Underappreciated (Score:4, Insightful)
One telling fact is that DS9 was the only of the modern Trek series to feature holodecks being used mostly for what they naturally would be (virtual brothels).
Re:Deep Space Nine - Trek Underappreciated (Score:4, Insightful)
From "The Way of the Warrior" until the series finale (not actually including the finale itself), DS9 was consistently some of the best Trek ever produced. It had some bad moments, like Sisko going crazy until he found a box buried in a desert in the middle of nowhere that contained the wormhole alien that was really his mother... but then it had moments like the "Siege of AR-558" that really brought the average up.
TNG had excellent individual episodes, but I wish they had more multi-episode story arcs. It just wasn't what you did back then, I guess. For instance, "The Inner Light" should have had a much greater impact on the following episodes for Picard than it did -- it should have been somewhat like the episode following "The Best of Both Worlds".
Voyager was good, for me, while Janeway had morals. The decline and corruption of her character was subtle and annoying.
Enterprise was okay, especially if you snip out the episodes involving the temporal cold war (and if you find some way to ignore the temporal cold war influence on the events of the third season [the Xindi storyline]). The fourth season of Enterprise was quite good, and there are some good episodes in the first two seasons as well.
Re:Deep Space Nine - Trek Underappreciated (Score:5, Interesting)
They were way way ahead of their time for sci-fi in terms of a long, complex plot arc. In my opinion, the plot depth and bredth are unmatched by newer works to this day. Also Walter Koenig as Al Bester is amazing.
As for the bad acting - it got a lot better after season 1. Considering it took the DS9 cast at least that long to master the acting thing themselves, I'm not sure its one of those things it "really needed"
What it really needed was an original thought. Apparently B5's creator gave paramount a series bible while pitching it in '89. As a result, the shows are almost identical. There used to be a wikipedia page listing the (30 something) similarities between the shows, but I can't find it anymore. There was one big difference, though - the shape-shifter. The shape-shifter was dropped from the B5 bible after '89 because shape-shifters were old news (Terminator 2 et al). I guess the paramount boys never got the memo.
Good to see enterprise where it belongs (Score:3, Insightful)
And now we're going to have to suffer through Star Trek XI.
Re:Good to see enterprise where it belongs (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, no (Score:4, Funny)
Besides, everyone knows that the best one is Star Wars.
ds9 for garak alone (Score:5, Insightful)
Julian: "Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?"
Garak: "No!"
Julian: "It's a children's story. A young shepard gets loney while tending his flock. He cries 'Wolf!' and the townspeople come rushing to his aid. When they discover there is no wolf, he claims he scared the wolf off, and they congratulate him for his bravery."
Garak: "What a clever boy!"
Julian: "There's more. The boy did the same thing the next day, and the day after, and the day after. And on the next day, when a wolf really did come, the townspeople didn't come. They'd gotten tired of his lying. The wolf ate all the sheep and the little boy."
Garak: "Isn't that a bit gruesome for a children's story?"
Julian: "The moral is that if you lie all the time, people won't believe you even if you're telling the truth."
Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak, leaving: "Never tell the same lie twice."
Re:ds9 for garak alone (Score:5, Interesting)
Quark: I want you to try something. It's an Earth drink. Root beer.
Garak: I couldn't...
Quark: Go on.
Garak: It's vile!
Quark: It's so happy and bubbly and cloy.
Garak: Just like the Federation.
Quark: You know what's worse? If you drink enough of it, you start to like it.
Garak: It's insidious.
Quark: Just like the Federation.
Awesome allegory on American cultural hegemony. Too bad George W Bush killed the greatest weapon against Islamic Fundamentalism.
Re:ds9 for garak alone (Score:4, Funny)
[a jem'hadar soldier:] There are no Jem'Hadar women.
[Jadzia:] Then how do you reproduce?
[j'h soldier:] We are born in birthing chambers. And we can fight within three days of emerging!
[Jadzia:] So, no sleep, no food, no women. After forty or fifty years of that, I'd be ready to kill someone too.
Re:ds9 for garak alone (Score:5, Insightful)
Or this quote, by Commander Eddington, as he betrays the Federation and joins the Maquis, stealing 12 industrial replicators in the process:
It was a recurring theme in DS9.
Re:ds9 for garak alone (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of the reasons I prefer DS9 to all other ST series. It is just more "real world", with no-nonsense (for a ST series that is) politics, flawed but interesting and complex characters, more than 1-dimensional cultures, kinda interesting story arc etc.
Re:ds9 for garak alone (Score:4, Insightful)
Bashir: Was any of it true?
Garek: Every word.
Bashir: Even the lies?
Garek: Especially the lies.
But which Series is Iconic? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure that has ever happened before.
BTW ST:TOS, but I am almost 50. Sometimes you also have to consider the social background when a series is aired. Civil rights was still an ongoing struggle and the Cold War was in full swing. I don't think TNGs Lesbian kiss was nearly as ground breaking and daring as the Kirk-Uhura kiss was, though most under 30 probably don't even know it was controversial at all. TOS had more dud episodes and much lower production standards, but the best episodes were iconic. I can't count how many times I have heard somebody bust out da-da-da'ing the battle theme music from The Gamesters of Triskelion episode. "Engage" and "Make it So" don't have nearly the same usage as "Beam Me Up Scotty", "He's Dead Jim", "Live Long and Prosper", "You pointy Eared, Green Blooded..." "Fascinating" or the famous single eyebrow raise.
I also have to agree DS9 is under appreciated.
Deep Space 9 FTW (Score:5, Interesting)
Long version: You can keep your Dax's, your 7 of 9s, your Deanna Trois; if you wanted a woman who was probably as fiery and passionate in the sack as she was on the battlefield, you couldn't look further than Nerys. The fact her alternate universe counterpart is a galaxy-crushing nymphomaniac is just gravy.
Short version: She's an ass-kicking redhead - what more could you want?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I have to say I'm a big fan of Miles, it was nice to see someone that wasn't all career, and was central in some of my all time favorite Trek episodes. Though I did always wonder why he seemed to be the only enlisted man we ever really saw for anything other then a bit part.
Re:Deep Space 9 FTW (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it is things like that (Kira a former terrorist) that kind of separated DS9 from the other treks and made it a more interesting show. I never thought Kira was overly hot, and she was a little grating at first, but she developed into one of the most interesting female characters of all the Treks. It was interesting to see her at the end training the insurgency on Cardassia.
TNG was definitely an ideal sort of world; it would be cool to be a member of the bridge crew as your real self, not just a hero version of your self. Moral dilemmas TNG was whether Wesley would tell the truth about the training accident. DS9 on the other hand had Starfleet officers complicit in murdering the Romulan ambassador and blaming it on the Dominion.
Voy (Score:5, Interesting)
I wasn't around in the sixties, so I'm not at all part of the TOS cult responsible for the series climbing so high in these sort of polls. IMO these days TOS is just too old to be watched by Trek newbies such as myself, my attention constantly wandered from the story to irrelevant aspects of the show such as crappy makeup, sixties props, bad acting and so on. I remember watching it a few years back and I stopped during the second season for this very reason. I just got bored.
TNG is the better one from the so-called old trek series. It's new enough to not make me think about the sets, editing and so on, but more of the stories. TNG's got some very good episodes, of which "The Inner Light" comes to mind first. (I often re-watch TNG episodes where character development doesn't really happen but the episode is fun or interesting in other ways - from this standpoint "Conundrum", "Cause and Effect" and "Chain of Command" are some of my favourites, among others.) Character-wise, it may not be the best series, but from the ST captains Picard is the most carismatic. Also, Enterprise E is the coolest ship.
DS9 was the most interesting series in terms of story. The long story archs during the Dominion wars were a good watch and I got kinda hooked on the series because of them. However, from a re-watchability perspective the series isn't that good. It does have some jewels, such as "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" and "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang", and it had the most emotional final episode. As for characters, Garak is easily the most intriguing and very fun too, and Kira's the cutest of all ST chicks.
Voyager is easily the most versatile series when it comes to writing new stories. It has the most interesting locations (both onboard and outside the ship), the gutsiest enemies (Borg, 8472, distance to home) and the best hook for viewers (when and how are they going to get home). I like the crew's struggle against the hopelessness of their situation and I find the Voyager crew the easiest to personificate with. Watching the series I share their emotions when they lose or gain some important component X of the ship or similar. The doctor is by a long way the funniest character in the franchise and even outside the boundaries of the script, Bob Picardo is *so* fantasticly witty and enjoyable to watch, he's probably my favourite character in the franchise (or maybe joint favourite with Garak). Voy also had some brilliant episodes with Q, I watched "Deathwish" just yesterday.
Enterprise is probably the most realistic of the 5 series, not only because of modern cinematics but because the technology is the closest to what we have in real life. They've still managed to cram in all the Star Trek basics (warp speed, transporters, energy weapons, universal translation) but we see all of them in their first steps of development, which is interesting and a welcome change. The first two seasons of Ent also had the highest ratio of filler/proper episodes and I find the filler episodes the most interesting to watch again. The third season was interesting to watch once but too dark to be fun to watch again (which makes it not enjoyable and therefore, in my mind, a disappointingly bad season). The series greatly improved on its 4th and final season and it was a shock to see it get canceled. I would very much have liked to see the Federation formed in more detail, and more (Ent had tons of potential for interesting storylines) but oh well.
In conclusion, it's always been hard for me to pick a favourite ST series, because they're all different and good in their own ways. Especially DS9, Voy and Ent are all brilliant. In this case, I gave my vote for Voy.
Galaxy Quest! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not Trek, you say? Not canon? Bah! The names were changed to protect the innocent, nothing more. Anyone who did not enjoy this movie immensely needs to take a step back and examine the reasons why. Did it strike too close to home? Did you take it too personally? Perhaps you should take it personally then.
Re:Galaxy Quest! (Score:5, Interesting)
movies in this (Score:4, Insightful)
I tend to include the movies with their series counterparts, which pushes TNG down because of Generations and Insurrection. First Contact was a good movie though, I thought. This also has the effect of pushing TOS up for IV and VI
Other posters are remarking on Garak and Kira from DS9 so I'll leave them aside. Other compelling characters include:
- Kai Opaka: the end of her story was her decision to stay on a planet locked in eternal war to try and end the conflict? That's fantastic.
- Tom Riker: the end of his story was his incarceration in a Cardassian prison with Kira promising to rescue him some day. Bonus points for Gul Dukat pointing out the silliness of the transporter accident that created him.
- Gul Dukat: he started out as purely evil and was gradually changed until the last couple of seasons debacle. I direct your attention to his choice of family over expediency (and the consequences) and his theft of a Klingon assault ship.
- Worf: sure he was from TNG but he might as well have had a big red nose and orange afro wig on that show. This is borne out by his unsightly zit in Insurrection and the way his love story with Troi was completely discarded for the movies.
- Amon Moritza: a Cardassian who disguises himself as a war criminal in the hope that he will be caught and put on public trial. His guilt at not doing more to stop actual war crimes compels him to do this.
- Nog: escapes racial stereotyping and joins Starfleet. When else have we seen anyone escape any of Trek's racial stereotyping?
- Doctor Bashir: An arrogant prick who gradually becomes sympathetic, and all along he's one of the good guys. Good guys on Trek don't have character flaws like overwhelming arrogance at any point.
Finally, if you haven't seen Star Trek New Voyages, do yourself a favor and watch it.Stepping up to the plate for TOS (Score:5, Insightful)
About a year ago (i.e. 2006), after not seeing TOS for probably 15 years (!), I decided to revisit it just for fun, expecting to be reeling with flashbacks of bad 60s acting, hollow plots, and cheesematic sets. But actually, the exact opposite happened. I was absolutely blown away at how interesting and artistic it was. Rather than cheesy, the sets look "stylized" and "minimalist." The acting was like stage acting rather than TV acting (a good thing). And the plots were frickin' brilliant as was the writing. Everything was about serving the story for that episode. Many episodes were crisp, well told stories that actually ENDED at the end of 1 hour -- NOT a weekly soap opera in space (something we assume will happen with most modern SF TV -- most TV, actually). Because TOS is so embedded in our culture, it is hard to step away and really see it clearly for what it was. Perhaps this is my shifting tastes as I start shouting at the local college kids to get off my lawn, but I suggest checking out TOS again, but try removing those biasing filters first. TOS really did do a lot with a little.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Enterprise Wasn't That Bad (Score:3, Insightful)
NG is winning? I do believe I feel a rant coming! (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess this is the answer you get when you ask a bunch of mostly-30-and-unders. It's nonsense by any objective measure. Even ignoring the fact that not a few of the more memorable NG plots and plot devices were ripped off from the original series, it's inferior in every way except for the special effects, which is to be expected. You had people like Harlan Ellison and Theodore Sturgeon writing for the original, for God's sake. (Sturgeon practically invented Vulcan culture single-handed as a byproduct of writing Amok Time.) There was no one anywhere near that calibre in terms of either raw imagination or skill in putting together a plot. The NG writers were nothing more than Hollywood hacks, incapable of creating on that level.
Let's be honest. If NG had been the original series, would it have spawned a franchise, with a fandom large and devoted enough to keep attention on the series until the studios saw the wisdom (profit-wise) of resurrecting it? Did NG really have anything like the chemistry we see among Kirk, Spock, and McCoy involving any of its characters? (The fact that they obviously tried to manufacture it in several instances and failed is even more pathetic than not having it in the first place.) Was any one of the characters of NG as memorable as any one of those three, or most of the secondary characters? I don't think so.
The original series' characters were far better realized overall; the three leads are just the tip of the iceberg. Why was Jimmy Doohan's engineering chief so much more believable than Levar Burton's? Because Doohan researched the part, talked with and observed real engineers, and then acted and talked just like one. He rang true. Burton just mouthed whatever technobabble shit was handed him by writers who found it easier to have him say utter nonsense like "recalibrate the main deflector" than do actual science fiction world-building. Scotty loved his ship, just as deeply as Kirk did but on a different level, and engineering was his life. He was a geek, and an inspiration of 2 or 3 generations of real-life geeks who became engineers because of that character's example. Geordi loved the holodeck, which he apparently used as a high-tech inflatable woman. Engineering seemed more a hobby for him than a driving passion. He was not a geek -- or if he was, then he shared only one of the more embarrassing stereotypical traits -- and he inspired no one.
Which just brings us back to the writing, because this is an excellent example of what was wrong with it. "Recalibrate" means the exact opposite of what they used it for. You don't recalibrate a device to make it work differently, you recalibrate it to make it work as originally designed when it has ceased to do so. So the writers weren't only hacks, they were ignoramuses who couldn't even use current technical terms correctly, let alone be bothered to model their SF tech on real-life tech as a skilled SF writer will do.
Is it any wonder that the strongest reaction evoked by any of the NG characters is negative? Sorry, but that's not a hallmark of quality work. Not when the character is supposed to be a protagonist with whom a certain number of the target demographic is expected to identify.
ST:TNG is in the lead? (Score:5, Funny)
imdb ranking (Score:5, Interesting)
And personally, it's gotta be in the order of
Enterprise deserves to be dead last... (Score:3, Insightful)
I waited until the series was over to watch it just so I could ALWAYS skip the opening credits. I was disappointed that it ended so soon and felt a few story lines weren't resolved. I think it had the most potential of all the recent trek endeavors but that potential was never fully realized. Not even close.
For my money, however, DS9 was the best of the bunch. Awesome character development, interesting characters, excellent social commentary, and story arcs that rank up there with the best serial dramas ever made (even to this day).
Voyager deserves an honorable mention. I'm watching the syndicated reruns now and have noticed now that it has a campy '50s sci-fi vibe about it. Somehow the managed to really capture that '50s vibe but keep it modernized while not appearing too cheap all while maintaining a balance between campy and still respecting the Trek franchise (or should it be FANchise) history and traditions. I was REALLY REALLY disappointed with how the series ended. The deus ex machina was just too damned obvious and a real let down, IMHO. Although I think the series had more potential without this plot line, I did enjoy the episodes that featured Reg.
Voyager == Homer's Odyssy in space (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? because it had several overriding themes that carried it through its entire run. The other treks by comparison had lots of itty bitty sub stories and many disconnected episodes. In this respect I compare to to that other classic Bab5 which also had a long involved story lines across its whole run. I simply do not understand voyager bashing.
The characters were interesting (the doc and 7 were creative genius) and the development as the series progressed was well done and interesting.
In this respect it was like a modern day adaption of the Odyssy - a long, dangerous frought journey back home exploring the route and characters on the way. Only without the Telemachus/Penelope sub plots.
And besides, having a NOT VOYAGER options, was a massive troll btw.
Not Voyager? WTF?! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Enterprise"? Really? You REALLY think Enterprise was better than Voyager? The ONLY thing better about "Enterprise" than "Voyager" was the chick with the boobs. (The franchise should have figured that one out with TNG). But that is it.
Nothing in that show was good. Not the acting, not the sets... certainly not the storylines. TOS had ground breaking ideas... back in the '60s. Today they are childrens programs. Going BACK to those sorts of stories did NOT advance the franchise.
"Enterprise" is the reason there is no new Trek on TV right now.
Re:this one (Score:5, Funny)
But it still won't be as bad as the second season of ST:TNG.
Re:this one (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this one (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this one (Score:5, Insightful)
TNG excelled at delivering characters that were believable, like able, and even at times quirky... all while being highly intelligent about it.
The great thing about TNG is that it is theatrical. It is not a TV show, but a stage performance on television. The Bridge is the stage, and it was filled with actors capable of delivering dramatic performances full of depth. The cast had a range that goes further than most, and despite the small problems on set, they always appeared to be a unit. They put on a great show and there will probably never be another Star Trek of that caliber ever again. Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes, Brent Spiner, Gabes Macfadden, Lavar Burton, Michael Dorn, Martina Sirtis etc... were all excellent.
Hell most people would cringe at the idea of throwing Whoopie Goldberg into the show, out of fear that her presence would break the third wall and be unbelievable. Surprise, she fit right in and was excellent as Gynan (sp?).
It really is amazing how well done many of the TNG shows are... Exposing new folks to Gilgamesh, and delivering great episodes like "The Inner Light". So many episodes of TNG left me feeling full of life and happy, or full of thought.
Sure, some of the episodes werent as brilliant, but the overall themes of the human trial, and our own existance... our place in the universe... these stories of self reflectance disguised as a sci-fi show, were and are important. Brilliant as well.
It is sad to see how far Trek has deviated from TNG. TNG really said something as a show... it said many wonderful things about life. I especially felt touched during the last scene of the final show where Picard sits down to play poker with the crew, something he has never done before... says "I should have done this a long time ago..." and the one of the crew (forgot who) says "You were always welcome". And then of course the final line... "So, five-card stud, nothing wild... and the sky's the limit."
Life is about being with each other, and for whatever reason, we're on this journey together... being often someone who seperates himself from other folks at times (like Picards character, which btw symbolizes many of our type of folks that tend to be called "geeks")... the line "you're always welcome" means a lot to me, and i'm sure others.... and i will always now welcome anyone and all to partake in what i do, because its important to recognize that we're all alone and theres nothing better than sharing and welcoming others into your life.
TNG was brilliant, if you got nothing from it... you werent paying attention.
Enterprise failed.
Re:this one (Score:4, Funny)
I can't imagine how worked up you get about Jackie Chan
Re:Better then Enterprise? (Score:5, Interesting)
Uhh, dude, I'm a huge Babylon 5 fan but I think your being a little harsh to TNG. TNG had great standalone episodes. Babylon 5 had a great story arc. I don't see how you can compare the two to each other. I also think you are being a little harsh to the cast. Brent Spiner and Michael Dorn were awesome in their roles. Both characters grew and developed over the course of the series. I'll grant you the rest of the cast didn't really get the same attention from the writers as those three (Picard, Worf, Data) did -- but how is that the fault of the actors?
The only thing I can give Bab 5 over TNG is that Babylon 5 had real viewpoint characters. Mollari, Garibaldi and Ivanova all seemed like real people. Most of the characters in TNG were way too perfect. The only real viewpoint character they had was O'Brien. One of my favorite TNG episodes ever was centered around him -- "The Wounded" [wikipedia.org].
Re:Why was Voyagar so bad? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not saying I agree with the OP, though. Janeway's not my type either. But 7 of 9? She was boring.
Re:Why was Voyagar so bad? (Score:5, Funny)
You probably find reading RFCs exciting.
Re:Picard (Score:5, Insightful)
Missed opportunities (Score:5, Funny)
If you'd finished off this post with, "But you don't have to take *my* word for it", you'd have hit pure Slashdot/Trek gold.
Re:Not TNG (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Films in addition to the shows (Score:4, Funny)