Has Gratuity Culture Reached a Tipping Point? (newyorker.com) 215
Paying extra for service has inspired rebellions, swivelling iPads, and irritation from Trotsky and Larry David. Post-pandemic, the practice has entered a new stage. The New Yorker: Tips have long provided a convenient way to foist payment obligations onto others. Kerry Segrave, the author of the comprehensive history "Tipping," identified the gratuity's potential origins, in Europe during the late Middle Ages. By the seventeenth century, visitors to aristocratic estates were expected to pay "vails" to the staff. This might have lowered payroll for the estate itself. At least one aristocrat helped himself to some of this new income stream; he threw frequent parties to increase revenues. The system spread. English coffeehouses were said to set out urns inscribed with "To Insure Promptitude." Customers tossed in coins. Eventually, the inscription was shortened to "tip." By the end of the nineteenth century, some business owners demanded their employees' tips. Some cafes charged waiters a fee for the privilege of working there. In France, tips were placed directly into a wooden box called le tronc, controlled by the proprietor. French waiters went on strike in 1907, identifying two of the great evils of their profession: le tronc, and a ban on mustaches. They eventually prevailed on both counts.
American visitors to Europe brought tipping back to the United States. Perhaps no entity did more to spread the practice than the Pullman Company. George Pullman preferred hiring formerly enslaved Black men as railroad porters. He paid them as little as possible, and used tips as a subsidy. The system spread as far as the train lines. By the nineteen-twenties, the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters estimated that the policy had saved the Pullman Company a hundred and fifty million dollars. The porters had long fought to eliminate tipping. Their efforts had been rebuffed by the Pullman Company's president and, later, chairman, Robert Todd Lincoln.
Once the practice gets its hooks in, it can be hard to dislodge. In New York, at the turn of the twentieth century, some enterprising concessionaires paid restaurants thousands of dollars a year to run their coatrooms. These concessionaires became known as the tip trust. At least one dressed young women in theatrical French-maid outfits to collect coats, hats, and tips; the young women turned over all revenues to the trust. (When skimming was discovered, the trusts banned pockets.) Men joked that they bought a hat for five dollars and paid seventy-three dollars a year to wear it. A hat manufacturer sold roll-up models that men could hide inside their coats. The greatest of the tip-trust barons, known as the Hatcheck King, brought in the equivalent of sixty million dollars a year. The trusts were powerful politically. Today, businesses in New York are not allowed to take their employees' tips, with one exception: hat-and-coat checks.
American visitors to Europe brought tipping back to the United States. Perhaps no entity did more to spread the practice than the Pullman Company. George Pullman preferred hiring formerly enslaved Black men as railroad porters. He paid them as little as possible, and used tips as a subsidy. The system spread as far as the train lines. By the nineteen-twenties, the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters estimated that the policy had saved the Pullman Company a hundred and fifty million dollars. The porters had long fought to eliminate tipping. Their efforts had been rebuffed by the Pullman Company's president and, later, chairman, Robert Todd Lincoln.
Once the practice gets its hooks in, it can be hard to dislodge. In New York, at the turn of the twentieth century, some enterprising concessionaires paid restaurants thousands of dollars a year to run their coatrooms. These concessionaires became known as the tip trust. At least one dressed young women in theatrical French-maid outfits to collect coats, hats, and tips; the young women turned over all revenues to the trust. (When skimming was discovered, the trusts banned pockets.) Men joked that they bought a hat for five dollars and paid seventy-three dollars a year to wear it. A hat manufacturer sold roll-up models that men could hide inside their coats. The greatest of the tip-trust barons, known as the Hatcheck King, brought in the equivalent of sixty million dollars a year. The trusts were powerful politically. Today, businesses in New York are not allowed to take their employees' tips, with one exception: hat-and-coat checks.
get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips come d (Score:3)
get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips come down to say 10% max.
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Insightful)
Or just get rid of tipping altogether and pay people a livable wage.
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree. I'd much rather see 20% higher prices on the menu and a sign that says "we do not accept tips."
And sure as hell not going to - ever - give a tip at a drive thru. Or go back, for that matter.
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You are both right.
They get paid regualar wages and yet the credit card machines still ask if you want to leave a tip.
Same with to-go orders.
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The drive through places are paying a lot more than state min untipped wage. It is 40k/year to work a window in late shift,
Depends on the drive thru place. I don't expect the average McDonald's is paying that much to the 16 year old, no.
please stop using that example, that has been corrected.
I can't stop using it as an example, since I never did so in the first place. In point of fact, you actually agree with my point, which is that asking for tips at a drive thru is offensive.
Only a dumbass argues with someone they agree with. Are you a dumbass?
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I agree. I'd much rather see 20% higher prices on the menu
It is a common fallacy that replacing tips would require a 20% price increase. I've read where an owner was asked how much he would have to raise prices to pay servers $15 and hour.
Which doesn't really disagree with what I said, which said nothing about how much was needed, only what I would be willing to see.
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Agreed. We should also only employee people that need a livable wage. There should be no jobs for students, teens, bored retirees! All jobs should support a livable wage.
Question - livable for 1 person or do you also want the resteraunts to pay enought for a livable wage to support the waiter's family?
Re: get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips co (Score:2)
Oh, the humanity!
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A hamburger restaurant in the area tried this. They put up signs saying they were paying a fair wage, and the staff themselves agreed that it was good money. However there was a revolt from customers! A lot of customers felt it was their right to punish/reward service (bad service is rarely the fault of the servers). Other customers thought that despite the signs and the word of the staff that lack of tips meant the servers were being short-changed. So that practice lasted only a month or two until it
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Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you really think people will tip (or expect to be tipped) 10%? I remember when 10% *was* the norm, and now there are places where 25% is the minimum on the card machine. Why not just do away with tipping culture altogether and stop tying employees' livelihood to the charity of the customer.
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Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Insightful)
I went to a 5 guys burger today. Stood in line ordered a burger, fry and drink. It had a 20, 25, 30 tip choice. I hit other and pressed 0 then walked over to a machine to fill my own drink. What are they doing that deserves a tip that the McDonalds worker is not?
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I went to a 5 guys burger today. Stood in line ordered a burger, fry and drink. It had a 20, 25, 30 tip choice. I hit other and pressed 0 then walked over to a machine to fill my own drink. What are they doing that deserves a tip that the McDonalds worker is not?
5 guys... when 4 guys just aren't enough.
Also, I hope you enjoyed that fry... would have cost enough.
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One of the advantages of being an 'old fart' is that when I was in school they actually taught math, so I can figure out what 15% of the check is in dollars.
That's not quite the flex you imagine it to be. 15% is ridiculously easy to figure out even for folks who slept through math class; it's 10% (which is just shifting the decimal over one space to the left), plus half of the 10%. Besides, paper receipts without the cheat sheet are still pretty common, so even if you're paying with a credit or debit card it's still on you to figure out the tip.
So no, the issue isn't math when people aren't tipping cash. In my case, it's simply because I don't carry cash; I h
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Informative)
Re: get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips co (Score:2)
*whoosh*
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Where have you visited in Europe that service was terrible? Most places I've been to throughout continental Europe have had much better and more competent service than in the US, which seems to disprove the notion that tipping improves service.
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Insightful)
They can if they include it in the price of the food.
I'd pay extra to not have a showdown with the waiter at the end of every visit.
Disclaimer: I live in Spain so I don't have this problem, I've visited the USA a few times though and it's ridiculous that the price printed on the menu has NOTHING to do with the price you end up paying after taxes and tips.
Riddle me this: If I've only got $20 in my pocket then how do I know what I can safely order? Do I limit myself to $10? $12...? What?
The whole thing is stupidity incarnate.
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Yeah here in the US we hate tipping too. But it's a hard habit to break. https://www.eater.com/21398973... [eater.com]
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Interesting)
If you do not like tipping, do not tip, and slowly the level of service gets to the point of what I expect in a Europeans bar with food, 3 people running around with zero capacity to deal with a PM rush. Italy that works only because the entire setup is to take 3 hours to complete dinner.
The regulars tipping well is an indication of healthy establishment that is not skimping on other things.
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife is in a tipped portion, those tips pay for all our meals out, all our travel, all our entertainment, we attempt to give as much as we get. 20% is the min we tip because we understand that the hourly rate is there to cover taxes everyone has to pay. A good tipped night makes the other nights worthy of attending when the venue is empty. A spectacular tipped night makes the month good and pays the utility bill for the month.
That sound... kinda lucrative.
I'm happy you and your wife do well, but if there's only a limited number of professions I can make lucrative I'm not sure restaurant staffing is high on that list.
If you do not like tipping, do not tip, and slowly the level of service gets to the point of what I expect in a Europeans bar with food, 3 people running around with zero capacity to deal with a PM rush. Italy that works only because the entire setup is to take 3 hours to complete dinner.
Why would paying higher wages instead of tipping lead to under staffing for the rush time? If anything, I'd expect the opposite.
With no tips and an hourly rate an understaffed rush time simply sucks for wait staff, so they'll bug the owners to bring more staff on duty to deal with it and the owners will likely oblige because it creates better service, a bit more throughput, and return customers.
If the primary compensation is in tips then your income is proportional to the number of tables you serve, so an understaffed dinner rush is actually good for the staff. Even though the level of service is lower they're getting a much bigger portion of a slightly smaller pot, so the staff financially benefit from an understaffed restaurant and suffer when it's overstaffed.
It's one case where tipping actually incentivizes worse service.
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If you do not like tipping, do not tip, and slowly the level of service gets to the point of what I expect in a Europeans bar with food, 3 people running around with zero capacity to deal with a PM rush.
Yeah, because that never happens in America.
This sounds exactly like the same argument for America's ludicrous health care system. "Oh, if we had single-payer healthcare, you'd have to wait 6 months to see the doctor! It'll be chaos! Oh wait... it's already like that even with fully privatized healthcare. Never mind!"
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You kind of have to cheat and fool the customers. Add the 15-25% into the cost of the meal, and state that "gratuity" on the bill. Otherwise some customers will STILL insist on putting down a tip, or complain that the company is cheating their employees. I've seen Americans arguing with waiters in Europe because they can't give tips!
Yes, you and I may hate tipping. But many Americans want it and are confused if restaurants don't allow it.
During pandemic, people were tipping the gig workers - and there's
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We don't want it, we have just been indoctrinated to believe it is mandatory.
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So... not a single American knows how much food I can order if I only have a $20 bill on me?
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So you tip 10%? Wait staff must love you.
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Tax isn't included because it differs per city/state.
That might make sense if you're selling something online, but if you're in a restaurant or retail outlet then you're in a specific city and state so there's no reason why the actual price including taxes can't be stated.
Re:get rid of the tipped min wage and let tips com (Score:5, Informative)
Do you really think restaurants will start "paying a livable wage" just because tipping is eliminated?
Yes, since the minimum wage would still apply.
Currently for tipped employees the employer can pay a lower wage than the statutory minimum, but only if the tips make up for the difference. If the tips don't make up for the difference, the employer is required to increase the salary until the employee meets minimum wage.
If you remove tips, the employer would just pay minimum wage like normal and recoup the amount spent on wages by increasing the base price of the goods. The employee would receive at least minimum wage, or whatever they can negotiate as salary, and the customer would be billed service included.
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Quite a few states do not have a lower minimum wage for tipped employees, for reasons that should be obvious at this point.
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I do not know where you live, but in the state I live in, Servers don't make minimum wage, they make about $2.13/hour. They are expected to get the rest from Tips.
$2.13/hour is the federal "minimum cash wage": it's the minimum amount of money the employer has to pay the employee directly, so regardless of any tips.
The employee is expected to receive enough tips to reach the "Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate" though, which is $7.25 at the federal level. If the employee does not reach the $7.25 rate, the employer has to pay the difference to the employee.
Of course individual states can implement better rates and many do.
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Here in Washington, the minimum wage will hit $16.28 in a few days and there is no lesser tipped minimum, yet we're still constantly presented with tip screens/jars at every turn.
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Those same restaurant owners will be just as shady if you do away with tips. They'll just resort to other, equally illegal, practices to steal from their employees, like unpaid overtime.
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If they can't hire anyone for less, yes, they will.
The underlying problem is people who will work for less.
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I agree with you. And the reality is that this is already true, tips or no tips.
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Do you really think restaurants will start "paying a livable wage" just because tipping is eliminated?
It's not only the restaurants that want to keep tipping. For every meme or blog post that makes the rounds about "I worked 60 hours and got paid 20 bucks" there's a LOT of tipped staff who are very, very happy with their tip-based income. It can greatly exceeds any reasonable expectation they might have making hourly or salary-based income. Plus, cash tips are rarely declared/taxed though that's less beneficial with most transactions happening by card these days.
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Oh, so restaurant workers in "other countries" make a good living, huh? If you say so!
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How about just getting rid of that stupid 2.13 per hr minimum wage for tipped employees?
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I'm all for that. And make minimum wage auto-adjust each year for inflation.
The original minimum wage in 1932 was 0.25 per hour, or $5.19 today. That was, and is, ridiculously low.
The 1980 minimum wage would be a better benchmark, at $3.10, that would be $11.99 today. Not great, but way better than the $7.25 it is now!
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No one should be tipped. Everyone should be paid a living wage, after prices are raised to a high enough level to cover that.
But "should be" and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee.
To many places ask for tips away out side of what (Score:2)
To many places ask for tips away out side of what it should be.
Yes for some things but not for all
Re:To many places ask for tips away out side of wh (Score:5, Interesting)
I finally lost it when the cashiers started putting tip jars in front of their registers. Now, a waiter or busboy might have some direct influence over your dining experience, and the amount of effort they exert may make a difference. But tipping the cashier for collecting the payment? Are you kidding? For what?
Worse, the practice has escaped the restaurants, and every small shop in town has tip jar by the register. Apparently these days people feel entitled to a tip whether they're providing a service or not.
Re:To many places ask for tips away out side of wh (Score:4)
The straw for my camel's back was a local bagel shop that put tips on the credit card pad at their drive thru.
No. Not happening.
Re:To many places ask for tips away out side of wh (Score:5, Interesting)
A lot of small independent fast/casual restaurants and food trucks/carts use Square, and Square is pushing tipping hard (whether the actual merchants want it or not, a bunch say "we didn't ask for this and can't disable it"). The Square interface has gotten to the point of not even offering a $0-tip option for some; you have to select "custom amount" and enter 0.
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Sounds like a good reason to find a new merchant service. Quickly.
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I've read articles about Square's behavior that include interviews with merchants that say they never asked for it and cannot disable it. Maybe Square has changed it since then, I'm just going on what I've read.
Read some Youtube or Reddit coments (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Read some Youtube or Reddit coments (Score:5, Insightful)
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In some cases, they may be paying income tax on assumed tips whether they get them or not.
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Only morally. If you're OK with saving a few bucks at someone else's expense, that's your call.
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Sadly, it doesn't actually work that way.
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Ahh, there it is! The retarded asshole who resorts to namecalling and lies because reality isn't what he wants it to be.
As I have pointed out (and explained) elsewhere, the entire tipping culture encourages bad service, and places (and their customers) that have succeeded in eliminating tips see a noticeable increase in the quality of service. This is well supported by all the peer reviewed research.
But the current setup is what it is, and when you stiff the waiter on the tip, it is the waiter, who has zero
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I prefer having food other people haven't spit in. Or worse.
But you be you.
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The moment we(country) legally excluded waitstaff from a minimum wage, amended to set a lower minimum, we allowed it to become obligatory. There is more nuance to the problem, in that even if they're paid above minimum wage it may not be a livable wage for the area. As customers, we're not privy to that side of things. I'm not saying this to place blame/guilt on anyone in particular. Tipping is just a messy problem that we should get rid of.
I read that, and the reason tipping isn't a culture in any other western country, tipping goes back to just after the US civil war where businesses demanded the ability to pay formerly indentured staff $0 plus tips, this applied to most of the jobs the now emancipated slaves could do, barbers, waitstaff, porters, et al. who simply weren't qualified or even educated enough in basic literacy or numeracy to do anything else. Over time this became a custom, then a culture and finally an obligation. There were m
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In my experience on Reddit, yeah, there's a lot of whiny, entitled little shits who feel that it's an act of evil that you're walking out the door with their money.
They are, almost universally, the shittiest employees a restaurant could possibly hire. The good ones are too busy with being grownups with a life to bother with whining on Reddit.
Tips are a great way... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Ban tipping & raise & enforce a living wage. Society will be (slightly) more equal & dignified, as simple as that.
Re:Tips are a great way... (Score:5, Interesting)
...to remove whatever vestiges of dignity might remain among employees.
It also actively encourages bad service, according to the peer reviewed research. The way that works is that all the things that people assume will have a negative effect on tips . . . really don't. A small effect, but the worst service, the worse food, the worst ambiance, on average, have maybe a 10% effect. The one thing that has a big effect on tip income is handling more tables, and the more the better.
Coworker calls in sick? Convince the boss to let you cover their tables rather than calling someone else in. Your service will suck rocks, and you lose 10% per table, but you're covering twice as many tables. That's an 80% increase in tips for the day.
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Re: Tips are a great way... (Score:5, Interesting)
We always knew (Score:2)
Mr. Pink was right. Tipping is dumb.
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Dumb for employees, smart for employers.
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Dumb for customer satisfaction, too.
Why should I have an uncomfortable showdown with the waiter at the end of every visit?
Re: We always knew (Score:2)
Why do you feel uncomfortable paying for performance (or lack thereof)?
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That's your bosses job.
I pay your business for what they sell.
Your business ensures that they hire good staff.
You don't suck at your job.
I don't have to pay extra for you to do what your job already was.
It's all very zen.
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Interestingly, when restaurants try to go no-tipping, they get intense resistance from both employees and customers. In both cases, based on inaccurate perceptions that are close to delusional.
Employees always insist they'll make less money, even if you guarantee them in writing they'll make at least as much. Because 80% of everyone knows they're above average.
Customers have the illusion that tipping gives them a degree of control over service, in that they can stiff the server if service is bad. Except the
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You have written that a lot on this topic.
Why do you make it uncomfortable. It would only be uncomfortable if you are leaving a cheap tip. And the only reason you would do that is because the service was horrible in which case, who cares if the waiter is uncomfortable?
Tip (Score:2)
The system spread. English coffeehouses were said to set out urns inscribed with "To Insure Promptitude." Customers tossed in coins. Eventually, the inscription was shortened to "tip."
That seems a little too strained, like Port Out Starboard Home. MW says origin is unknown for that use, but coming from tip as in tip of the hat seems reasonable. But if tracing it back just dead ends, it's a mystery for now.
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I read once that it came from sharing with your waiter in a bar or servants in your manor - you gave them a "tip" of your bottle. Basically share a shot of the "good stuff" with them as a reward for their loyalty and service. Something like that.
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Yes it has! (Score:2)
Remember to tip your landlord (Score:5, Funny)
A 15-20% gratuity for your landlord is often suggested [apartmentguide.com].
I think this is because landlords are on drugs and every day that someone didn't tell them to fuck themselves should be considered their reward for a job well done. (plus the thousands of dollars we give them every month)
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Yes. And I'm not happy about it. :-(
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I'm renting a house to a friend of the family. He works minimum wage and donates blood for extra cash. He pays his rent, but I don't really like being a landlord for philosophical reasons. I'm not making any money on this either, I'm charging the bare minimum that I can afford. And it still doesn't feel good accepting payments from him.
People don't understand what Tipping is. (Score:2)
People have this weird idea that the world is an organized system with clearly defined rules. That's really not the case. The concept that a person should have a single employer, and that employer is the sole determiner of their wages is an exceptionally weird one. Waiters and Waitresses don't serve their employer. They serve their customer. The restaurant owner and customer engage in a joint employment of the waiter or waitress, and it's incumbent on the customer to contribute their portion of the server's
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First, for most, this is going to be a part-time job, that they do while they should be pursuing knowledge and skills relevant to the career they're trying to do-- if you really want waiting to be your career, that's possible, but it's not going to be at Denny's
Nope. I know of women who've quit lucrative jobs and now support their husbands on the tips they make at diners. It's extremely good money, at least outside the urban centers where prices are extremely inflated and there are few upper-middle-class of
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This has to be the dumbest thing I've read all day, and I've read a couple of newspapers already. I don't employ anybody when I go to a restaurant. I contract for goods and services and that contract is with the owner of the restaurant. I am not obligated to pay the server anything.
It's become gratuitous (Score:3)
Nuff said
Tipping doesn't make sense (Score:2)
I understand the arguments for tipping (it inspires better service, it allows the company to pay less, etc.). But at it's heart, tipping in restaurants just doesn't make sense. Why should anyone's wage be tied to what I order? Is it any more work for the server to take my order for a steak that costs $40 and deliver it to the table that it is for a hamburger that costs $20? If I order water instead of a soda, why do they deserve to make less money? It makes absolutely no sense at all. To me, that is the big
yes, ... coffee shops (Score:3)
<sarc> I love it when the counter device offers me a minimum $1 tip for a $2.50ish coffee, not to mention Panera's auto-payment stations, when I take my own cup and pour myself </sarc>
TFA repeats bad pseudohistory (Score:2)
The whole "To Ensure Promptness" story as the origin of "TIP" has been debunked many times before, so it's a shame this author chose to repeat it: a quick ask of Google will lead you to Snopes every time. [snopes.com]
With that said, totally agree that tipping has long since been out of control. I tip 15 percent and call it a day, but only when there's actual service being rendered. (Scooping ice cream into a cone, for instance - i.e., the job an ice-cream parlor worker is paid to do - doesn't warrant a tip, whereas bar
Next level (Score:2)
I've been "banned" from a few places who add fees to the final bill for take out orders, because I only pay enough cash to cover the cost of the food (advertised price + tax). The key is custom food orders that can't be easily resold so it's either take the cash or the complete loss on the order. Two places died on the hill saying they wanted an additional 5-10% in fees, so I walked away and ordered from some place else.
A tipping point??? (Score:3)
Har har.
No Tips in Japan (Score:3)
I find one of the nicer things about living in Japan is that there is no tipping here. Not in restaurants. Not in cabs. Not anywhere. Waiters will chase you down the street to return your change if you don't take it. It really is a relief.
To insure promptitude? (Score:3)
Tipping can have serious bias (Score:3)
Iâ(TM)d like to see tipping banned on that basis AND previously tipped jobs pay increased to keep the same average total income. I expect and accept that prices will increase accordingly
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Nobody else.
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I'm guessing you either never go back to the same place twice, or enjoy the taste of other people's saliva. (And hey, dude, there's nothing wrong with having a fetish.)