Unofficial Win2K Daylight Saving Time Fix

Saturn2003a writes "Microsoft has stated that they will not be offering a patch for the new US Daylight Saving Time for Windows 2000 and earlier. Only customers with an extended support agreement can get a Hotfix from Microsoft. To get around this, IntelliAdmin has created an unofficial patch (source code provided) that will fix Daylight Saving Time on Windows 2000 and Windows NT machines."

My fix?

I use Zulu time.

I haven't had an issue yet.

Re:My fix?

I used to do that too, but I found all the spears and animal skins cluttered up the server room.

Re:My fix - avoid vendors that act like assholes.

I dislike M$ as much as the next /. poster, but saying W2K is 'broken' in this case is a bit of a stretch. The gov't changed the rules governing daylight savings time; it's not like it *wasn't* right before.

Re:I'll stretch it

download and install patches from a web site operated by the government

And now for another episode of, "Good Idea, Bad Idea"

Seriously... downloading patches from a website operated by the government?

But they're still an asshole.

[I]I dislike M$ as much as the next /. poster, but saying W2K is 'broken' in this case is a bit of a stretch. The gov't changed the rules governing daylight savings time; it's not like it *wasn't* right before.[/I]

It's not that W2K is broken that makes M$ an asshole in all of this. It's that they have a patch available for those who have paid for extended support, but they won't release it for the general public.

Since the cost to produce the patch has already been absorbed by M$, the only reason to withhold the patch is to make people frustrated with W2K to encourage them to upgrade. When you can readily fix something, but you don't, so that people will upgrade, well, then, your an asshole.

Re:But they're still an asshole.

You don't need the extended hotfix to "fix" W2K. The official free solutions from Microsoft can be found here - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/914387 [microsoft.com]

Re Broken

It is broken, as is DST in all Windows operating systems. Microsoft implemented a dumb scheme whereby one cannot have different DST rules in different years. Unix based systems have solved this problem 25 years ago.

Re:My fix - avoid vendors that act like assholes.

But in the Solaris case, I was able to download the new timezone files from ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007a.tar.gz [nih.gov] and extract the contents (the only file I needed was northamerica), and ran "zic northamerica" -- all was taken care of.

Yeah, right

but what about us DOS users?

Re:Yeah, right

vas is dos?

Re:Yeah, right

vas is dos?

I think it's from that german movie "DOS Boot".

Re:Yeah, right

There is a patch available at Here [freedos.org]

It also fixes lots of other problems with DOS that people have struggled with.

Yes, DOS is still useable and in use today by lots of important devices.

and it's....

About time too!

(Sorry...couldn't resist)

Re:and it's....

I think it's about time that we just split the difference, adjust the clock by half an hour, and leave it there.

Well...

I suppose that's one way to say, "hurry up and migrate to XP^H^HVista."

Fortunately, the corporate users with a domain will still have a DC as an authoritative time source, and can just adjust the time on one server to keep everyone else in sync.

Re:Well...

Are you sure? Last I knew it used sntp to send around time data thats all in UTC with the local machines converting it to local time. I could be completely off though been a long time since I was forced to run windows.

Hm...

Windows 2k is...lets me see 6 years old... Well Adobe just gave us a big middle finger for a bug in their Photoshop CS that is 2 years old. Their answer? Upgrade to CS2 or find a workaround. No news here folk... Ford aint giving garantee for their 2000 models cars either.

1 question

Where's your Honda dealer?

Re:Hm...

Nope, more like the US decided to switch to metric and people complaining that Ford won't replace their English unit speedometer with one that has more prominent markings for metric. In both cases, the product still works but external factors make it less convenient. With Ford you have to look at the smaller metric markings. With Microsoft, you have to manually update the clock for daylight savings time twice a year. Neither case is a malfunction.

Re:Hm...

The US switching to metric? If I had mod points, I'd mod you funny for that line.

Re:Hm...

And you're saying that in reply to an article about an unofficial fix for it?

clocks

Think of the millions of clocks worldwide with automated systems b/c there authors didn't think that daylight savings time would change... sorta reminds me of something I saw in a "How not to program" book "don't set pi as a constant, you might have to update it".
I work for a large clock company and there sending out many (20+) people throughout the country to reprogram the clock controllers so that there DST tables can be automatically updated in the future, nothing like more summertime :D.

It's not like there are no other options

This knowledge base article [microsoft.com] from Microsoft describes how to use the Time Zone Editor utility (which you can download from that page) to adjust time zone settings.

If you need to update several computers, it also describes which registry keys to export. You can then import those registry keys in a logon script or whatever.

It's not like people/companies running Win2k are SOL.

Re:It's not like there are no other options

Grammar tip: "Effect" is a verb. "Affect" is a noun.

Slashdot has enough trouble with grammar without you confusing things. :-P

They can each be both, but the typical cases are "affect" as a verb, and "effect" as a noun. Linky [google.com].

It's my date in a box

Step 1: Kick users off your box
Step 2: Change the time on your box
Step 3: Make her open the box.

It's my date in a box. Date in a box bay-beh.

Not Entirely Stuck

According to the article, Win2k users can use the tzedit utility to edit the timezones, ostensibly to alter when/how DST occurs. My initial impulse was to say "what bastards!" (as is often the case with M$ related silliness), but this is only slightly ameliorated by this workaround. Just roll out a bloody patch, guys.

I've got a fix

Don't do the new Daylight Savings Time. It will cost more to implement than the "energy" it is supposed to save. It will probably cripple parts of our infrastructure when it is implemented.

DST in some countries changes every year...

In the country I live in DST is on a different date every year, and is based on when some
holiday happens to occur in the lunar calendar, so every year in our data centers we either
change the clocks manually, or rely on the Domain Controller on changing the time for
the servers and workstations in the domain.
And we don't complain to Microsoft for not providing us a fix for it.

-D

So, the Y2K problem finally shows up

I knew it was just a matter of time.

Why the 3rd party patch?

Only customers with an extended support agreement can get a Hotfix from Microsoft.

Unless this MS Hotfix is somehow tagged or customized... wouldn't we only need one extended support holder to put the patch out on the internets?

There IS an official fix

Direct from M$:

Move to Arizona, Hawaii, or anywhere outside the US.

True legacy

I know many people who simply can't afford new PCs are are stuck running Windows 95 & 98. Is there any way to correct these? (Aside from manually tweaking the clock.)

MS Entourage 2004 on OS X has same problem.

Even with the latest 11.3.2 patch, all meetings made through March through April are one hour wrong.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=924606 [microsoft.com]

And as always their glorious status of this bug:

STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft products that are listed in the "Applies to" section. Microsoft is researching this problem and will post more information in this article when the information becomes available.

Which leaves many people who use Entourage in the corporate environment out to dry.

You know...

...this is probably going to screw up all those bot-nets.

What about XP?

Any word on a fix or lack of for XP, or has this already been patched in a previous update?

New Daylight Savings Time rules?

News to me. Got links or references to share on that? If it hadn't been for this story, I'd have not known about that, thanks.

Re:New Daylight Savings Time rules?

News to me. Got links or references to share on that? If it hadn't been for this story, I'd have not known about that, thanks.

Well, it was passed into law in August of 2005, so it's been around for a while. Here's a link [nist.gov] to the relevant bits. Following is the relevant changes:

* In 2006, DST will begin at 2 a.m. on the first Sunday of April (April 2, 2006) and Standard Time will begin at 2 a.m. on the last Sunday in October (October 29, 2006), as under the current rules.

        * However, beginning in 2007, DST will begin at 2 a.m. on the second Sunday in March (March 11, 2007) and Standard Time will begin at 2 a.m. on the first Sunday in November (November 4, 2007).

It actually got quite a bit of news coverage at the time. It's been on Slashdot several times [google.com] as well.

Cheers

It's For The Customer!

Even though Microsoft may be within their rights to not support a 6 year old OS, it would be a good idea for them to roll out a patch for an annoyance like the DST change. It would be a sign of good will to past and hopefully future customers, and it just plain looks bad for unofficial sources to be offering patches for Windows. Even if the OS has gone past end of life, the Windows brand is Microsoft's bread and butter. They really can't just sit back and let anyone offer up patches for it. Besides, these aren't blue haired grandmas running Windows 2K. Some of these people/companies might just buy something if you treat them right.

Win2k

Win2k was the best MS OS ever. But it's too bad that they're trying to eliminate it, because they want the $$ of XP/Vista. It's good to know that others are trying to stop Microsoft from annoying all who do not pay them. I wonder what Gates thinks of this; extended support costs money, and he hates others stopping him from getting it. Especially if it has source code attached.

Third Party Solutions?

We have been fighting with this Daylight Saving Time issue on Windows for our application over the past couple weeks. We are now using the Dynamic Time Zones as outlined by Microsoft and it is working fine. It works for 2004 and forward, but isn't so good for historical data.

I've been trying to find a third-party solutions that has historical information and will nicely plug into our C#2.0/SQL Server 2005 application but I've come up blank. Lots of solutions for Linux and C++, but nothing much for C#. Our application is world-wide, so a north-america-only solution will not work.

If you have solved these issues in C# and/or SQL Server, can you please give me your suggestions.

Ken

who cares?

I live in Arizona, you insensitive clod!

Use UTC, RealTimeIsUniversal=1

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html [cam.ac.uk]

To tell Win2K that the hardware clock is UTC,
Set:
HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInfo rmation\RealTimeIsUniversal

Assuming that the hardware clock is local time is plainly a bad idea, and this bug is
unfixed in all versions of Windows.

"2006-07-04: Various Microsoft Windows Vista beta testers have told me that this next-generation operating system still is not capable of running the CMOS clock in UTC. If you are a Microsoft Vista beta tester, please use the opportunity to report this problem to Microsoft. Urge them to at least fully support the RealTimeIsUniversal=1 registry setting that is already partially implemented."

The timezone should only affect clock display, not the machine behavior.

Not only in the US...

It's important to note that the change to US daylight savings time does not only affect the US. Canada has changed its daylight savings to match the US [timetemperature.com], due to the amount of trade that takes place between the two countries. It's not clear if Canada is addressed in the IntelliAdmin patch - it appears localised.

DLST and Cingular

Man, Cingular cannot even get my voicemail time right when daylight savings time kicks in normally, i just cant wait till this happens.

The fix

1. turn off daylight time saving

2. net stop "windows time"

3. net time /setsntp:some.ntp.server

4. net start "windows time"

done. Works as long as the locale and tz on ntp server are set correctly.

History?

If Microsoft's patch will cause Windows XP (or Vista) to show the WRONG time for files saved near the DST change dates/times in years past, then it is NOT A FIX. This DST change has very, very deep effects on every single program that processes ANY dates/times before 2007 in the US. Program that went back before the current DST settings have already dealt with this (or decided to be wrong), but for those of us with no data older than Windows itself, we've never had to worry about this...until now.

For example, a power company wants to compare the power usage trend for, say, 5-6pm (when a large portion of people get out of and home from work) during late March for the years 2005-2008. If their software doesn't know to account for two different DST rules, then two of those years will be comparing the wrong hour of the day. And, FWIW, I chose this example specifically because it lends itself much more to local time than to UTC.

So, to patch this correctly, Windows will need to know which set of [at least two] DST rules to use (based on the year) when translating ANY time from 'system' (i.e. UTC) to 'local'. I don't see that happening, so I don't think that even the XP and Vista users will have a working OS, at least in the sense of correct time translation from UTC to local in the USA.

Oh dear.

I used Windows to control all my time-related issues once. But after one BSOD all of a sudden it was 1955, my parents accidentally never met, and my future mom started hitting on me. Ugh...

As long as the patch can be uninstalled....

... once they realize it how stupid an idea it was to change the dates for DST in the first place.

But hey, I guess they just gotta learn the hard way, don't they?

Simple Reg Fix...

I've been looking into this issue, and all it takes is a simple registry patch, as outlined in the Microsoft article, which was simple enough to follow. I don't see why they had to make a program with an installer. Maybe to leave their name on the patched systems?

The ability to change it for many computers is interesting, but you have to pay for their Network Administrator program as well as install it on each computer. A better solution (which is what I've done) is to just implement the patch via Domain Group Policies.

Not Surprising, Microsoft Doesn't Care..

Given their attitude [msdn.com].

Expected?

Go easy on Microsoft. Way back in 2000 they didn't know how to properly count dates.

</sarcasm>

Bush's legacy...

Forget the deficit and the war in Iraq, this president made the summer longer! When you are playing catch with your son in the backyard at 8:30pm on Nov 3rd, take a moment to thank the man responsible!

What about Linux?

So what about Linux and the time change?

You get what you paid for.

You expect more than 7 years of support for a software package that costs $350?

I'm guessing on the price, I couldn't find any one keeping history on Microsoft products. unlike Apple products where there are mobs of people tracking every piece of trivia.

official (sortof) fix

Microsoft has always had a supported way of making your own changes to your timezone settings. It comes in a program called tzedit.exe and has existed since windows 95 at least. This requires no downloads from third parties. Here's the instructions (taken from: http://www.dbaplace.com/2007-dst-change/#comments [dbaplace.com])
Every version of Windows has a "resource kit", though Microsoft only supports Win98+ so you may need to hit old download sites for those ancient versions of Windows. You can download the resource kit from http://www.microsoft.com/windows/reskits/ [microsoft.com]. Download this if you do not have it already.

Once the resource kit is downloaded and installed search your disk drive for tzedit.exe and run it.

Select your timezone from the list and click edit.

You'll have two boxes "Start Day" and "End Day" change these from what they are to what they need to be for the new change.

Click Ok, then Close.

To make the settings take effect restart, or select Date/Time from the control panel, choose a different timezone, save and close then repeat selecting your correct timezone this time.

Has anybody seen this patch yet?

I haven't seen it appear on my WSUS server or even in Windows updates... just curious if anybody else has seen it and if they have, what KB # was associated? Our company has some issues with some shitty software so we can't install it en-masse.

Thanks :)

Too Late...

I've coded my own fix already. And I didn't forget Newfoundland.

Foiled Again

They just cant kill of W2k as much as they try :)

Once you make a good product, its hard to make it go away when all you do is produce crap afterwards.

A very obvious solution

A very obvious solution would be to have an added tab in the date/time (or whatever it's called in Windows) control panel that would allow the user to change the begin-end dates for such modifiers.

This would fix it once and for all.

BTW, I live in a country (Brazil) where daylight saving time starts and ends on different days every year.

what about embedded devices?

MS has a manual patch process for Windows Mobile and CE devices, but relies on phone and PDA vendors to roll it into thier own patches.

A bigger problem is all the other embedded systems out there with no defined patching process. Firewalls, GPS units, Blackberries, VCRs, TiVOs... what a pain in the ass.

NTP in Windows

I really find that annoying that Windows requires Active Directory to be set up prior to configuring a Win2K/WinXP node as an NTP client. It's just one of the many restrictive practices M$ adopts. The simplest of these being that MS Paint every time redirects me to 'My Pictures' folder whenever I wish to save a picture file. Some registry hacks may bypass such restrictions at times but this is not something an average user would want to do.

wouldn't you 'fix' this

by installing one of the many free NTP clients on your machine?

Microsoft did release a fix for Win2K...

Microsoft published a registry fix for this problem here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/914387/en-us [microsoft.com] They also have a full page devoted to their products here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/timezone/dst2007. mspx [microsoft.com]. Don't forget your Windows mobile phones. For a good list of these and other vendor's fixes, checkout this article: http://www.edgeblog.net/2007/daylight-saving-time- the-year-2007-problem [edgeblog.net] While registry fixes aren't perfect, they do work. At least Microsoft has been upfront about the problem. It has been much harder to find fixes/patches from Sun, Cisco, Oracle, etc. Complaining that Microsoft did not release a patch for an out-of-support product, is like getting mad at RedHat for not patching version 7. All vendors end support eventually. And, don't even think of asking for a fix from your PBX vendor, your time clock vendor, or your cell phone carrier. They'll just tell you to manually set it. My microwave blinks 12:00, but it least it will still be right twice a day...

Re:GMT

I have all my clocks set to Metric Time.

Remember this moment, people: 80 past 2 on April 47th, the moment Microsoft finally kicked Windows 2000 to the curb.

Re:"Only" 1Mb

Hey - remember when you could do some trivial data changes in a few lines of code and a 1K executable? Or am I just old?

When was the last time you saw a 1K executable on Windows? The only one I can think of is the bootloader.

Re:Umm... is this really a problem?

It is for anyone on a Windows network with mixed 2000 and XP installs using Active Directory. Kerberos (which Active Directory uses) will automatically deny access if the client's clock is more than 5 minutes off from the server's clock. If your server runs 2003 and your clients are 2000, or your server runs 2000 and your clients are XP, you will hit a problem.

There is a reason why every system clock in an Active Directory system is synchronized. If the server's clock is off from Atomic time, so will all of the clients.

Re:The patch...

Windows machines automatically sync to time.windows.com using the NTP protocol. Those time.windows.com servers are synchronized to NIST stratum-1 time servers, which in turn sync to stratum-0 "atomic clocks".