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Will AT&T Start Filtering Your Connection?
from the i-sorta-figured-they-already-were dept.
I think this is a crucial distinction, because efforts to filter end users' connections (as opposed to making them pay consequences for their actions after the fact) have always been controversial, even when the content is illegal. The Center for Democracy and Technology successfully overturned a Pennsylvania law that required ISPs to block overseas child pornography sites, partly on the grounds that the filtering included many third-party Web sites as collateral damage. I've argued that a similar private-sector initiative called Canada Cleanfeed, where Canadian ISPs attempt to block child pornography Web sites, would do more harm than good. On the other hand, nobody's fighting very hard for the cause of child pornography downloaders who were caught and arrested. Web sites get sued and shut down all the time, but it was bigger news when Canadian ISP Telus blocked the Web site of a Telus labor union for three days. So it's a big deal whether we're talking about "pre-emptive" filtering, or fighting piracy "reactively" by going after violators.
AT&T Senior VP James Cicconi said in e-mail that "discussion about what the technology will or won't do is premature until we can invent it", but most of the hints so far have been that the anti-piracy technology will be "pre-emptive", i.e. filtering users' connections. Cicconi said on a conference panel that AT&T has to spend billions on network maintenance to carry illegal pirated traffic -- which they probably couldn't recoup by suing people, so the only way to prevent that would be to block it. And Cicconi has referred to the technology several times as a "network-based solution" -- but what else could that mean, except filtering?
So let's assume that's what's on the horizon. Interestingly, Cicconi said that AT&T did not plan to block actual Web sites. However, he said in e-mail, "If one could, with a high degree of certainty, spot and isolate illegal traffic from an offshore site, would you not think the copyright holders would have a reasonable argument for a court order to block that traffic (as opposed to the site itself)?" Presumably this could refer to a Web page with an index of links to BitTorrent files -- so they'd be willing to block the BitTorrent links, but not the Web page? But from that point of view, why not just block Web sites too? If an overseas webpage has a list of links to pirated content, and that content is served over http from the same Web server, wouldn't they want to block it?
But I doubt this would stem much piracy in the long run, because connection filtering to fight piracy became more commonplace, then the next generation of p2p file-trading programs would all just have circumvention capabilities built into them, that let you route your connection through a friend at an unfiltered ISP. You're on AT&T, you upload a file to your friend on Verizon which earns you some "credits" with his node in the p2p network, and instead of redeeming those credits to download a file from him, you use his node as a proxy to download a file indirectly from a site in Russia that AT&T is blocking you from accessing. Advanced users can do this already with tools like Virtual Private Networks and Tor, and some tweaks in a p2p program would just bring it within the range of the casual user.
On the other hand, if AT&T starts filtering traffic, it could set a bad precedent that any time a party in a legal proceeding wants a site declared "illegal", they can demand that AT&T (or other ISPs) block the site. It could be a site libeling a person, or a site hosting a decryption tool that breaks some company's poorly-designed code, or pretty much anything that some powerful person wanted to go away. Meanwhile, if an AT&T customer did get accused of downloading pirated content, now they could invoke the "AT&T didn't stop me" defense -- they thought that AT&T was filtering illegal content, and if they could get to it, then that meant it was legal! In both cases the problem comes from someone using the argument that once AT&T started doing any filtering at all, they should have gone further.
So I would watch the situation closely, even if you're not an AT&T user, and don't assume the situation will take care of itself. Cicconi said, "If a company like ours does dumb things and upsets our customers, we will lose them to someone else," which is something I'm skeptical of whenever I hear it used to defend various draconian anti-spam measures, but in this case I think it's even less applicable. When you're talking about spam filters, at least they always bring some benefit to the user (less spam), and the question is whether the free market weighs those benefits properly against the costs (more lost mail). On the other hand, if an ISP filters the user's connection, that brings no benefit to the user, and in a truly efficient market, all customers of such an ISP would just switch to an unfiltered one -- if that doesn't happen, it simply means the market in that case is not efficient. Is your ISP filtering your connection right now? Probably not, but how could you tell if they were? Right now we assume that ISPs don't filter connections because generally it's "just not done" (except when it is). In a few years we might not be so sure.

Simple answer: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Simple answer: (Score:4, Interesting)
i am hopeing that AT&T is dumb enought to do this - that atleast their techs are not completely evil.
an example would be.. they don't want traffic from say a specific ip block coming accross their network..
if they do it right and just remove the route than any isp that goes to their network will get a route error and will defualt to the next route and the net will route arround them - allowing AT&T to only effect it's network and the rest of the world is happy
on the other hand - if they jsut decied to drop the packets and not issue a routeing error for the subnet then routers will keep sending traffic that way and AT&T will effectivly black hole that block for all of AT&T and the other ip's that happen to route through them
black holeing is very very very very bad
FP! (Score:5, Funny)
These are MY letters!
I didn't copy them!
Damn it...
Glad someone is sorting this stuff out (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Glad someone is sorting this stuff out (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Saturday February 25 2006, @11:02PM)
It's one thing to provide client side filtering, but if they're doing it, they're responsible for what slips through.
I really wished the essay addressed that issue.
Re:Glad someone is sorting this stuff out (Score:5, Funny)
Never (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://graha.ms/ | Last Journal: Friday August 17, @06:22PM)
Dumb question... (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course not (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://graha.ms/ | Last Journal: Friday August 17, @06:22PM)
Re:Of course not (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://twister.dragon-wing.net/)
To say that rules like this don't apply to big corporations is simply not accurate. And while it sometimes seems like big corporations are terribly evil and can get away with anything... the laws often *DO* prevail. They can't pick and choose which laws apply to them no matter how many senators they have in their pockets. This debate is *very* public, so its not like it can slip through the cracks. AT&T will have to duke this one out on their own I suspect.
Re:Dumb question... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.livejournal.com/users/control_group)
AT&T, the phone company, is a common carrier.
Re:Dumb question... (Score:4, Informative)
(Last Journal: Friday November 10 2006, @02:16PM)
Filtering by type (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://technical-writing.dionysius.com/ | Last Journal: Monday November 05, @03:35PM)
And when the pirate havens are blocked... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://cafepress.com/phototravel?pid=5934485)
We may get our ability to legally backup and/or convert movies and music back...
Crucial correction (Score:5, Insightful)
You will watch what they want, when they want, how they want, and you will pay for it every single time, plebe
A /. Message from the Future (Score:5, Funny)
Headline (30 mins laters) - "Hackers have found a way to circumvent AT&T's Multi-million dollar anti-pirating program"
And it isn't really incorrect, either. (Score:3, Insightful)
Resolution of Filter (Score:4, Insightful)
Will I be filtered because it sees a 700meg file being transfered? What about ISO's? Will it assume and iso is a pirated CD, when in reality it's a Linux distro?
Definitely a complex problem.
Cheap DSL at what price (Score:3, Interesting)
Compensated (Score:5, Informative)
They were compensated.
The $200 Billion Broadband Scandal
New investigative ebook offers micro-history of Verizon, SBC, Qwest, and BellSouth's (the Bell companies) fiber optic broadband promises and the consequence harms to America's economic growth because they never delivered and kept most of the money, about $200 billion.
This is one of the largest scandals in American history. America is 16th in the world in broadband and the US DSL current offerings are 100 times slower than other countries such has Japan and Korea. How did we go from Number 1 in the web to 16th in broadband and falling?
Starting in the early 1990's, with a push from the Clinton-Gore Administration's "Information Superhighway", every Bell company -- SBC, Verizon, BellSouth and Qwest -- made commitments to rewire America, state by state. Fiber optic wires would replace the 100-year old copper wiring. The push caused techno-frenzy of major proportions. By 2006, 86 million households should have had a service capable of 45 Mbps in both directions, (to and from the customer) could handle over 500 channels of high quality video and be deployed in rural, urban and suburban areas equally. And these networks were open to ALL competition.
In order to pay for these upgrades, in state after state, the public service commissions and state legislatures acquiesced to the Bells' promises by removing the constraints on the Bells' profits as well as gave other financial perks. They were able to print money -- billions of dollars per state -- all collected in the form of higher phone rates and tax perks. (Note: each state is different.)
* ADSL is not what was promised and paid for. It goes over the old copper wiring, can't achieve the speed, has problems in rural areas and is mostly one-way.
* 0% of the Bell companies' customers have 45 Mbps residential services.
The fiber optic infrastructure you paid for was never delivered.
http://www.muniwireless.com/article/articleview/5
What the hell? (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Yeah and you also have to spend billions maintaining a network so that morons can blather on about inanities! That's what being a telco with common carrier status is all about! You're supposed to recap your expenses with a user fee structure, while being completely disinterested in the nature of the transmitted content, you dumbass! If you don't know that then obviously you're the wrong man for the job!
Trained monkeys (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Trained monkeys (Score:4, Interesting)
The masses want cheap newspapers. They usually don't care about content, they care about their funnies not costing more than 50 cents. And that's quite possible, with companies paying insane amounts of cash for ads.
Here, it is already very blatantly so that companies (banks and car manufacturers, usually), "buy" newspapers. Indirectly. By buying double page ads, often twice or thrice per paper. I once had the chance to ask a higher up at a local bank why the heck they do that. I mean, there can't be any advertising value in doing a double-full page ad twice in the same newspaper.
Answer: "Well, we got a security breach and they know about it, and we don't want them to report it".
He didn't even try to hide it! I mean, here I am, some tech goon and he just says that as if it's normal everyday business to bribe newspapers to suppress some news. I was rather
And soon working somewhere else.
Today "pirated" content, tomorrow dissidence (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.webgeekworld.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 27 2006, @07:47AM)
Try your best AT&T! (Score:3, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/~Shadow%20Wrought/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday November 07, @02:46PM)
AT&T upset about bandwidth useage. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Somebody running a server in their basement on our network and uploading illegal copies movies raises the costs for everybody else and jams the network in ways we're not compensated for,"
Uhh bullshit. We pay for the connection, we get to use the connection. If you don't like that quit selling us "Unlimited" Service and then crying when we actually use it as such.
It would be funny to have an national protest by uploading, legal things of course, all over the world just to see how badly we could cripple the internet. Say you entire photo library to your favorite photo site, or a nice modest ten gig transfer through chat programs such as Skype, or a few hundred emails with a files attached to them to everyone you know. Just for 24 hours or so and watch all this "unlimited" bandwidth grind the system to a hault.
As a follow up trick start up few hundred class-action lawsuits for fraudulent buisness practices and false advertisment.
How the hell is this redundant? (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.hyperlogos.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday July 18, @08:19PM)
One of many WTF lines from a linked FA... (Score:3, Funny)
Right, because pirate bytes are... bigger? I guess they're all wearing hats and carrying parrots or something.
l7-filter (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.thetao.info/tao/whitecloud1.htm)
Is the l7-filter's approach something that p2p software's next generation can get around? Maybe, but it won't be as simple as port hopping. There will always be ways to get a few files though, but the question is whether large-scale p2p operations will remain viable in a context of widespread packet filtering.
Encrypted Content?? (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.the-sopra...y/s3_tony_logoff.wav)
1) If I share an illegal copy of a movie using an encrypted p2p service
2) AT&T somehow busts me (i.e. they decrypt and analyze my shit at layer 7)
3) I can sue their asses for violating DMCA or whatever right?