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Digital Cinema Not Quite There Yet
Posted by
Zonk
on Sun Mar 12, 2006 05:27 AM
from the movies-in-bits-and-bytes dept.
from the movies-in-bits-and-bytes dept.
An anonymous reader writes "A Reuters article explains how, in some ways, the digital future of movie theatres isn't quite here yet. Despite the push for new technology in the projection booth, theaters have been slow to adopt the new and expensive gear." From the article: " Many in the movie industry hope digital cinema will help revive theater attendance, which fell 9 percent in 2005 in the United States. The studios stand to save about $1 billion a year in print distribution costs because they will be shipping digital movies via computer hard drives, satellite and broadband cable, versus old celluloid canisters. But digital deployment is expensive at about $100,000 per screen, and while the studios agreed to foot most of the bill, current equipment does not meet all the technology standards set by the industry."
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Digital Cinema Not Quite There Yet
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Movie Attendance (Score:5, Insightful)
My guess is that releasing movies that don't suck would increase movie attendance.
An assignment for you (Score:5, Interesting)
Society has always been a terrible, roiling mess of people killing, fucking, beating, screaming, stealing and swearing. This is probably the most generally civil time in the history of the world, but not by much.
There was a great deal of American propaganda in the fifties and sixties in which television shows and movies depicted the way that authority figures wished society was, but it was completely inaccurate. Coat-hanger abortions, drug use, prostitution, unreported rapes, lynching of blacks, the blackmails of J. Edgar Hoover's FBI, and a thousand other offenses went on all the time. The populace of the fifties knew this, but their children and their grandchildren fell for the saccharine story.
It didn't make these children better people. It made them ignorant of how people work.
Your assignment is to read A Tale of Two Cities, in which highwaymen rob passersby constantly, traitors are drawn and quartered after having their entrails burned in front of their eyes, children are executed for stealing sixpence, and in general two of the "greatest" societies in Europe wallow in muck and horror. You'll see how these societies were in this predicament precisely because of how tough they were on offenses to their moral code. You'll certainly see that culture has long been full of violence, sex and profanity, because people are full of these things.
After you've done that, you can continue to proselytize for your supposed utopian vision of a society founded around families. You can continue to ignore that the majority of the world is not composed of families at all, but of single people, divorcees, widowers, and the parents of adult children. You can ignore that reproduction is merely the start of a life that is supposed to be full of many experiences apart from merely reproducing again. This twisted vision can still be yours... but at least you won't think your ideal represents a glorious past we once had.
Life has always been a crock of shit. Lucky that we so often like the smell of our own.
Re:Movie Attendance (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://timgray.blogspot.com/)
We go to fewer and fewer movies over the past 12 months because almost everything they have been putting out are simply polished turds. As an indie film maker I have seen movies shot and editied on a crappy VHS camcorder for less than $1500.00US that are more entertaining and higher quality than many of the multi million dollar movie that has overpaid bad acting, seem like the script was being written as they were shooting, and now features the trademark "shakey cam" that must mean that hollywood can no longer afford tripods.
MPAA is dying faster than the RIAA. Movies have more indie talent than all of hollywood and many of the best actors are now starting to star in indie films. (Seeing Robin Williams in a really low budget film that he helped finance is a sign of the times.)
The only problem is that indie films are typically direct to DVD. Most theatres will not show indie films and none of the filmmakers have the money to get their film overhyped and marketed on all the networks.
Crappy winter movies (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday November 03 2003, @03:59PM)
They release a bunch of good movies around Thanksgiving and New Year's, when people take breaks. That's also when most of the potential Oscar nominees are released, just before the end of the year (to be fresh in the Academy's mind).
And they're waiting for the summer for people to be on vacation again, so they release the stuff that they thought was not good enough to attract attention during the summer and winter rushes of great movies, and the real losers that they're hoping will be able to recoup their losses as long as there's nothing else good to see.
Not that I agree with this "logic"; the studios love to pander to a "conventional wisdom" and never question it. When Spider-Man was released a few weeks _before_ the traditional Memorial Day weekend rush, they were stunned to discover that people who had five months of cruddy movies would throw gobs of money at a good one.
But logic good or ill, movies are cruddy now because that's when the cruddy movies come out. Last year's whole movie season was pretty bad, and the studios deserved to see attendance fall 9%. But if the studios have learned a lesson, you won't see the results until the late spring. They're still flushing their crap. Sorry.
box-office slump is an urban myth (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://myrighteye.blogspot.com/)
Additionally, you can read his ideas for real ways to revitalize the movie-going experience here [suntimes.com].
Revive theater attendance?! (Score:5, Funny)
Good lord (Score:5, Insightful)
I stopped going to movies because I was sick of paying the price of a DVD, just to be forced to watch commercials for deodorant and lectures about how I'm an evil baby-killing sealsucker for downloading movies (which is something I don't do).
Now I'm supposed to go back and start going to movies again just because they've tossed in some newfangled, flashy, questionable technology?
Sometimes I wonder whether the people who work for MPAA style companies are stupid, or whether they simply are from some alternate universe where logic actually works that way.
Re:Good lord (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://iki.fi/wheany/ | Last Journal: Monday July 03 2006, @01:48PM)
I'm not downloading movies, I'm right here sitting in the theatre after paying for the ticket! I'm the guy who did the right thing!
I've never bought a car, but I'm pretty sure the salesman (or salesmens union) won't give me a lecture about people who steal cars and tell me that stealing cars is wrong.
Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure that I've not been given a lecture at the grocery store either. Oh yeah, and once I ate at Subway and I didn't get a lecture there either. What gives?
cost (Score:5, Informative)
Re:cost (Score:4, Insightful)
Young people will do what they always did, find something new. There'll still be music clubs, discos, etc. and it's quite likely that another public media-consumation-in-a-dark-room venture will develop, if there's a need for that (Which I doubt, today teens don't have to hide the fact that they want to be alone (In a cinema you aren't alone, but noone can see, thats close enough) with their date anymore, like they had to during the 50's).
*shrug* The world will continue turning
Re:cost (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.collinsroadtheaters.com/ [collinsroadtheaters.com]
http://crifilms.com/ [crifilms.com]
Re:cost (Score:5, Informative)
(http://motobrief.com/)
Unfortunately, that's easier said than done. You have to understand the economics of film distribution to understand the terrible position movie theaters are in.
In a major studio release, the split for the first week of release is normally 90/10. The studio gets 90% of the receipts taken in by the theater. The split slowly moves in favor of the theater in subsequent weeks. So you go to a first run movie, pay $10 and sit in a room with 40 other people -- the theater is going to make a whopping $40 for that entire showing from ticket sales.
The allocation process doesn't encourage theaters to try for a bigger cut, either. The studios decide how many theaters they'll release a film in for a given market, then the films are allocated to the theaters by bidding. The theaters bid on the split and the number of weeks they promise to run the movie.
The only way digital distribution is going to have any impact on overall prices at the theater will be if the distribution agreements themselves also change. How likely do you think that is? Personally, I expect the studios to take the money and run.
Affordability (Score:5, Insightful)
(DRM) Not ready yet? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder if this means "The equipment doesn't have the DRM and copy protection we require."
The one place where they could use DRM for a true user pays arrangement - i.e. Pay per screening etc - and no mention at all of this.
I'm sure there are probably other "technical issues" holding them up, but DRM would be the most obvious. I'm sure that I read a while back that copy protection has already been addressed in the form of encrypted hard disks for distribution in the UK.
The savings may be the problem. (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPnJ-FXTmg)
I don't doubt there are technical issues. But even when those are resolved, there may be a long delay while the various actors decide how to split the savings. My guess is that the Consumers Union will not be invited to the negotiating table.
Cinema is dead (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday February 12 2007, @06:09AM)
Re:Cinema is dead (Score:4, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Thursday May 08 2003, @01:07PM)
All these points will need to be re-examined in one to two years when the new 4K projectors start coming out with much higher (even than film in true comparisons) resolutions.
the commercials (Score:4, Insightful)
And, if they are gonna show a preview, at least show a preview for a movie that the audience of the movie being screened might be interested in.
Fæx!
Norway will switch by 2007 (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.ntnu.no/midgard/Nordic.html [www.ntnu.no]
Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Friday June 11 2004, @11:15AM)
Cinemas like equipment that's built to last. Some cinemas are using projectors that are 30+ years old and still working perfectly. New equipment such as multi channel digital sound processors are just bolted on. You can't bolt a digital projector onto one of these. The technology is fundamentally different.
People are not going to go to the movies just because they have digital projectors. They don't care! It doesn't make a difference how the popcorn was delivered, or whether the electricity comes from nuclear power or coal either. They want to see a movie. This is the problem. Hollywood is too obsessed with technology (not just cameras but digital sets as well). Give us a decent story. Use the technology to tell the story.
Re:Problems (Score:5, Informative)
(Last Journal: Thursday May 08 2003, @01:07PM)
Now the current generation of projectors are 2048x1080. Soon they will go to 4K. It is telling that IMAX known for its ultra large format films (70mm 15perf) is actively considering digital, in no small part due to the extremely high print costs $20K-$40K. If they consider digital good enough, that's saying something.
A 90-10 Split? (Score:3, Informative)
Forget the Cinema (Score:3, Interesting)
The THEATRE experience (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/)
For example, if you go to Westwood in Los Angeles, the theatres look like opera houses, and are ornate and spacious. There is palpable excitement in the crowd on opening night for a new film. I saw a movie at a pizza restaurant/theatre in DC a while back. The tables were set on tiers. Sitting in a comfy chair eating pizza while watching a movie in a theatre is an awesome experience. Lastly, I saw Saving Private Ryan in Amsterdam. The theatre was also very ornate. Some people dressed up for the occasion. A choir dressed in WW2 uniforms sang before the movie and during intermission. During intermission, you could go to the lobby or a number of lounges to have a cocktail or some champagne.
If some maverick theatre owner was willing to turn movie-watching into an EXPERIENCE again, then I might think about attending, but right now I have no interest in being pumped in and out of a suburban money making machine.
LS
In some ways? (Score:2)
How about "not even fucking close to being there"? How about "deficient in almost every way possible"? Or maybe "how stupid I am to even think it is close"?
DCinema facts from an insider (Score:5, Informative)
1. The format has just been ratified and in some ways is still incomplete. It is a SMPTE spec (DC-28).
2. The equipment needed to playback DC-28 doesn't exist in cheap enough quantities yet. This is essentially the chips to decode (encode would be nice as well but it can be done in software). The decoding of J2K is quite cpu intensive and the algorithms don't optimize well in todays CPUs so the decoder chips are a requirement.
3. Its an expense for everyone involved. The projectors are around $75K today, the encoding systems represent multi-million dollar changes to the workflow of the studios (depending on commitment).
4. The only person that is going to make money is the distributor. The distributors all have financing secured, the ones we have talked to for the past 5 years have 3-4 hundred million secured so that they can essentially subsidize a large portion of the rollout but at 10,000 primary screens this only goes so far when you consider projector costs.
5. The theater owners are unconvinced that switching to DCinema is going to gain them anything, in fact the only advantage it gives them is the ability to dynamically change the number of screens that they are using for a given movie at any point in time. The ability to instantly add another showing without ordering another print is a bonus but its not a big enough one.
6. The traditional equipment providers have been fighting this tooth and nail. Somewhat out of ignorance and protectionism but mostly because their technology involves gears and reels not bits and bites. They simply don't understand the technology or to be more fair they didn't in the beginning.
7. There was a lot of division in the format wars, the MPEG 2 guys wanted their version, there were some stand alone wavelet formats, there were some oddball variants of jpeg. All of which had some success which has ultimately delayed the rollout *somewhat* just do to the FUD it has caused.
8. the content owners are worried about digital copies of their films flying around the great cloud of the internet of course and about them being stored on hard disks but most of those issues have been somewhat addressed and we are now just waiting for them to sort of catch up with the reality of technology today.
9. There are a bunch of little things like the single longest lead time item for a D-Cinema system is the lens for the projector. The wait time can be as long as two years.
10. The accepted cost for the DCinema system is around $7K per unit (not counting the projector) which is rediculous as it does not leave much room for cost for storage, the decoder board, the network, backup systems, etc, etc, etc.. just an enterprise class server alone is going to suck up $4K of that cost, its a bit rediculous.
In response to some of the other topics mentioned.
DRM/Security: The DRM is simply normal encryption systems, since the playback system is entirely hardware the playback board has the keys. It will be quite hard to hack. This is not a case of DVD CSS encryption, the system will be much harder to get into. Also the move now is to put real-time watermarking into the film at playback.
Quality: The typical film you see in a theater is around 4th to 6th generation prints. This means you could be down as low as 1000 lines of resolution. DCinema kicks ass in quality. Even when you butterfly the content side by side with a 6K telecine from a pristing master print of the film the dcinema quality stands up quite well (90% of the test audience cannot tell the difference). I would also say that the main reason that some people can tell the difference is that the dcinema version is much more stable (not gate weave) so it is not moving all over on the screen. Even the golden eyes in hollywood agree that it is a better image. Keep in mind that all of the dcinema systems out there today are based on older technology and cannot compare with a DCI sp
Digital cinema is well established (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Thursday January 26 2006, @02:20PM)
I've got digital distribution thanks to DSL and bittorrent.
Why am I supposed to be going to the theater again?
what is a cinema? (Score:4, Funny)
See...Analog is STILL better (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
But aside from that personal preference, perhaps the movies being put out suck and noone wants to go see them? Its a thought...
Passion of the box office (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://thedevilsadvocate.org/)
So Cinema isn't dead, the movie companies aren't hurting, it's just that all this is a myopic response to an abberation in the figures the year before.
No maintenance = no attendance (Score:1)
NOOOOOOO (Score:1)
(http://mylinuxblog.livejournal.com/)
That was some god-awful quality. It hurt to watch. It was grainy and washed out and had poor focus and basically every problem that comes from making digital movies without spending all the time necessary to bring them to the natural quality of film.
Why is it so expensive? (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.00ted.com/)
Why is retrofitting these theatres going to cost the $100,000/screen as they allege? I have a friend who I helped acquire a theatre and we were able to use a $2500 projector (and later 2 $3,000 unites with "lens shift" where they can be used in tandem), and threw the image onto a full size screen (30x50 ft?) with a super bright, and clear image... WE ran a DVD from a Sony DVD player that was up-converting everything to 1080 lines of resolution, and it looked as good, if not better than 35mm...
We found that the DLP projectors gave much truer color, whereas the LCD units put everyone in a candy colored world.
So anyway, we now show independent filmmaker's films, and DVD trailers - and an occasional a public domain film - and NO ONE had every questioned the quality.
I just don't understand why everyone wants a $100k "digital Projection" projector just because it's the unit they've used at events like the Oscars. Is this because to brand name? Ignorance?
From what I've heard, the bigger issue isn't getting the image on the screen, but the lack of willingness of the exhibitors to LET you play a DVD - they just wont allow it - even if you already get regular movie prints from the company (Disney, MGM, etc.), and are paying them market rate, and have the DVD at the same time the vinyl 35mm is available.
It's only 24FPS. (Score:2)
(http://www.animats.com)
3.1.4.2. Frame Rates The DCDM image structure is required to support a frame rate of 24.000 Hz. The DCDM image structure can also support a frame rate of 48.000 Hz for 2K image content only. The frame rate of any individual DCDM master is required to remain constant. Metadata is carried in the image data file format to indicate the frame rate.
The defined image sizes are 2048 x 1080 (called "2K images") or 4096 x 2160 (called "4K images"), with 12-bit RGB color. The "2K" format is basically 1080p HDTV at the screen, but with better (or at least less) compression for transport. Audio is uncompressed.
Digital cinema will kill theatres (Score:2)
Theatres have always thrived on providing better viewing experience than home television. Thats why when television became popular, theatres adopted the wide screen format.
The problem with Digital is that it is not really better than a good TV set. And technologicaly TV sets have actually better potential for improvement than digital movie screens.
If movie theatres were smart, they would insist on improvements o film technology. All the current problems with film, such as flicker, and film imperfections could be fixed with better technology. Advanced robotics can be used to completely aliminate all flicker, and larger film size can make the picture so good, digital tvs will not be able to match it for another hundred years.
Also, i bet most of the technical issues concerning high quality film projection have already been researched and resolved in the context of computer chip manufacturing.
The studios like digital film distribution because (i) it saves them money because they do not have to produce film and (ii) even if people stop going to the movies, the studios figure people would just buy more DVDs. But the theatres should realize that their interests are not really aligned with those of the movie studios.
An excellent resource for this and related stories (Score:1)
(http://www.freshdv.com/)
If this is the sort of story that strikes your fancy, you need to add CinemaTech to your daily reading list.
Here's the National Association of Theatre Owners Digital Cinema System Requirements [mkpe.com]. Found via CinemaTech [blogspot.com], of course...
Matt Jeppsen
FresHDV.com
Alternatives (Score:1)
Question: not "why not go" but "why go?" (Score:2)
(http://www.designby.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday October 22 2003, @05:12AM)
2. Commercials
3. Cost
Those in order of priority are why I very seldom go to the movies anymore. The writing is really horrible in a lot of films, and too damn many of them are aimed straight at teenagers and little kids. (I've got nothing against teenagers and little kids but...)
It's actually a very close call for me which makes me less likely to go to movies anymore, 'quality' or 'commercials'. The quality issue makes me apathetic about going - "I could go to a movie... but I'd probably enjoy my time more if I did X." The commercials though! Pure spawn of satan, whoever came up with that idea!
The first time I saw a commercial before a movie I was: ... oh, say 30 frickin' minutes of commercials!
a. REALLY offended that I'd paid as much as I had to get in and then been forced to sit through that.
b. Dismayed because I knew that this was not only going to spread to every movie theatre around, but that it would also no doubt grow from just one commercial to
And then of course they stopped even being special commercials produced for the theatre. Now we're watching damned TV commercials.
Hmmm... Offend audience... ticket sales drop... who'da thought?
It's sad because I'm not one of those guys who "hates" the whole theatre experience. Get the right movie and the right audience and it can be fun. Unfortunately it's just generally not worth it anymore.
The REAL reason: Unions. (Score:2)
(http://www.ringdev.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday May 08 2007, @01:50PM)
-Rick
attendance, which fell 9 percent in 2005 (Score:1)
I wonder if the people who run cinemas will ever figure out that people can stay home and watch TV if they want to see commercials before their movie.
They got it backwards (Score:1)
Exhibitor position on DRM for movies - good design (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.animats.com)
Some highlights:
The system shall be designed to push data to outside business entities per the needs of the exhibitor, and shall not allow outside business entities to pull data from the exhibitor's equipment or from the premises without the express written permission of the exhibitor on a case-by-case basis. All such communications shall be recorded and shall be auditable by the Exhibitor.
That's a nice contractual definition of a "no spyware" requirement. IT managers, put that in your purchase orders.
Good performance requirement. If you have to do hardware replacement, this puts an upper limit on how fast the vendor has to authorize the new hardware.
If we have to have DRM, it needs contractual safeguards like that.