Instacart Makes Changes To Tip Policy Following Shopper Complaints (techcrunch.com) 65
Instacart announced today that it is changing its tip policy to protect its growing shopper network from tip-baiting. Tip-baiting, a grotesque tactic, is when customers bait shoppers with a big tip and then reduce the tip to zero after they receive their groceries. It emerged as Instacart's demand skyrocketed due to the pandemic and people being unable to go to the grocery store. From a report: Instacart continues to say that tip-baiting is rare and that less than 0.5% of orders have tips removed after delivery. It says tip totals have doubled for shoppers since the COVID-19 pandemic began. However, the policy change shows progress on how the company treats its shopper network, who have been essential as shelter-in-place orders keep people and the immunocompromised from going to grocery stores. Instacart is now requiring customers who remove tips after delivery to leave feedback, and claims it will deactivate any customer who consistently removes tips. The company also said that it is reducing the tip-adjustment window (the time period for how long a customer can change the tip) from three days to 24 hours. The smaller window, ideally, would limit the amount of time that a shopper needs to wait for a final tip. Along with the tip changes, Instacart is updating its Instant cashout feature, first launched in 2019. Shoppers will now be able to cash out tips 24 hours after they complete a delivery for more immediate access to money. The company is also waiving all cashout fees for shoppers using Visa cards until the end of July 2020. Instant Cashout is also expanding to Canada.
Wonder how many tips adjusted up (Score:2)
I never thought of trying to change a tip after the fact.
At first it seems strange you can even do that - but then I got to thinking, that in some situations I might increase the tip after if the person did something really extra.
So I was just wondering, does upward tip movement after the order happen as well? I would hope it would be a higher percentage that did that then removed the tip altogether....
If I ran something like Instacart and had a customer reduce a tip to 0 for three different delivery peop
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I never thought of trying to change a tip after the fact.
You set the tip when you enter the order. The adjustment happens after you put things away and can finally scrutinize what the shopper actually did. Since they do substitutions and talk with you while they're doing it it actually makes sense.
I cannot explain why the window was 72 hours, though.
Re: Wonder how many tips adjusted up (Score:5, Insightful)
It is even stranger to "tip" before a service is even provided.
Re: Wonder how many tips adjusted up (Score:4, Insightful)
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It is even stranger to "tip" before a service is even provided.
Pre-tipping would be nice if you could actually specify the level of service you expect.
For instance, if I am eating at a restaurant, I would like to be able to pre-tip the chef so I get good food, but I don't really mind if the waitress is rude and I can fill my own water glass. So no pre-tip for her.
Re: Wonder how many tips adjusted up (Score:4, Informative)
If you are eating in restaurants where you feel like you will not get good food unless you "pre-tip" the chef, perhaps you should reconsider your choices in eating establishments.
Do you want to pre-tip your doctor too, to ensure he gives you good treatment as well?
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Do you want to pre-tip your doctor too, to ensure he gives you good treatment as well?
Probably, if I get better service from pre-tipping. Generally that takes the form of paying more money for a more in-demand service provider at a nicer facility (ie, a good barber), so the pre-tip is built in.
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Why is setting a tip before the service is rendered allowed anyhow?
Plainly the buyers and Instacart are the problem. The buyers pick which order they'll deliver. The tip is not a tip, it's a bribe. Consumers wised up to the game. Instacart got caught and is playing PR games.
Why are they letting you set the tip before? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are they letting customers specify a tip before they get service in the first place? A tip is supposed to be a reward for good service. The entire notion of knowing what your tip is going to be ahead of time eliminates the motivation for giving good service....
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Because the tip is a significant portion of the amount the shopper actually gets, and it allows shoppers to prioritize which trips are worth their time versus a waste of their time. Since it's a gig, and there is no hourly rate, a zero tip means the shopper can theoretically lose money shopping for someone (fuel / gloves & mask / wear/tear on vehicle).
Re:Why are they letting you set the tip before? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because the tip is a significant portion of the amount the shopper actually gets, and it allows shoppers to prioritize which trips are worth their time versus a waste of their time.
Costco provides same-day delivery via Instacart - I've used it. When you are choosing your items for home delivery, you are told (paraphrasing) "the prices you see are higher than in-warehouse because that extra money goes to Instacart to fund this service."
Now it seems to me the Instacart shoppers, who pick up the items from Costco and bring them to my home, should be getting the vast majority of that money - so why am I expected to tip on top of that, except to reward good service (which should happen afterward)? The cost of maintaining the back-end infrastructure, spread over all total transactions, can't be very expensive... so Instacart itself should only get a tiny portion of the money.
If Instacart itself is keeping almost all of that overhead, then I don't think I want to use them anymore.
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pizza places have that fee that the driver does not get. Some even pay under min wage on the tip wage.
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"should be getting the vast majority of that money"
The key word here is should... That's not how it goes. I stopped using DoorDash after I learned that the tips weren't going to the delivery folks at all (they were paying a flat rate, and keeping the tips for themselves)
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
Instacart has been found doing similar shady crap
https://payup.wtf/instacart/de... [payup.wtf].
"Their updated pay model still sets pay through a black-box algorithm which they claim accounts for a wide range of various f
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Did you just say that none of the tip goes to the shopper!?!?! If that's the case, then should everyone set the tip to zero all the time?
Re:Why are they letting you set the tip before? (Score:4, Informative)
DoorDash and Instacart have since changed their policy of stealing tips, to under-paying their gig workers in other ways... But yeah, that was a thing for a while. The problem is, if you set your tip to zero, the company de-prioritizes your order.
https://www.nbcnews.com/busine... [nbcnews.com]
https://www.theverge.com/2019/... [theverge.com]
Mostly, my response has been to get delivery from places that employ their own delivery staff.
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Well, then, there's the problem. If a zero tip means that the shopper can lose money, then the company is violating labor laws. The fact that they're ab
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Because the tip is a significant portion of the amount the shopper actually gets, and it allows shoppers to prioritize which trips are worth their time versus a waste of their time.
What you are describing is not a "tip" and has nothing to do with "tipping" and everything to do with Instacart massively fucking up the well known concept of "tipping".
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No, that's not the reason and no, you don't want "shoppers" doing that and no, "gig" doesn't mean "no hourly rate". Batting .000 there, champ.
The reason, of course, is that payment is prearranged so tipping won't occur at all without prearranging that as well.
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Yes, that is the reason, yes they want shoppers prioritizing clients who are good tippers (they give top-rated shoppers first crack at top-rated clients to keep the most lucrative clients the happiest), and very frequently "gig" absolutely means "no hourly rate".
Shipt pay structure is:
$5 + 7.5% of the store receipt total + promo pay + tips = your final pay.
Oh, hey look at that, no hourly rate.
DoorDash pay structure is:
Base pay from DoorDash to Dashers ranges from $2-$10+ per delivery depending on the estima
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Yes, that is the reason, yes they want shoppers prioritizing clients who are good tippers (they give top-rated shoppers first crack at top-rated clients to keep the most lucrative clients the happiest), and very frequently "gig" absolutely means "no hourly rate".
Shipt pay structure is: $5 + 7.5% of the store receipt total + promo pay + tips = your final pay.
Oh, hey look at that, no hourly rate.
Well, yes and no. The minimum order is $35, so you're guaranteed a minimum of $7.63 even for the smallest order, which is more than U.S. minimum wage for an hour of work, so unless it takes you more than an hour to pick and deliver it, they're effectively guaranteeing you minimum wage (in most places). For larger orders, the percentage of the receipt means that the longer it takes to pick the items, give or take, the more you make. So although it isn't, strictly speaking, an hourly wage, it should tend t
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No, that's not the reason and no, you don't want "shoppers" doing that and no, "gig" doesn't mean "no hourly rate". Batting .000 there, champ.
The reason, of course, is that payment is prearranged so tipping won't occur at all without prearranging that as well.
That's a bad reason. Shipt doesn't have that problem. The next time you sign in to the website, it asks you about your previous order, and asks you if you want to leave a tip. There's no reason Instacart can't do the same thing.
Re: Why are they letting you set the tip before? (Score:1)
Eliminate the "tip". Simply add $15 to every order. That's what the driver gets.
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Because the tip is a significant portion of the amount the shopper actually gets, and it allows shoppers to prioritize which trips are worth their time versus a waste of their time. Since it's a gig, and there is no hourly rate, a zero tip means the shopper can theoretically lose money shopping for someone (fuel / gloves & mask / wear/tear on vehicle).
Honestly just kill the tip and roll in a fair cost to the shopper as part of the service charge. I hate tipping. The idea that I'm paying a service charge, delivery charge AND then I have to figure out how much tip I want to give.
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Why are they letting customers specify a tip before they get service in the first place?
Because it just makes things a lot easier, if you have to remember to add a tip after most people will not do that, and a month or so ago most places didn't want anything to do with dirty physical money.
A tip is supposed to be a reward for good service
I very much agree with this point. So I usually do give them some cash in addition to the pre-defined tip.
The entire notion of knowing what your tip is going to be ahead o
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You can pay more to attract people to take the job, get your shopping faster. They call it a tip but it's not really.
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"Why are they letting customers specify a tip before they get service in the first place?"
Why is it rational for labor to accept work without knowing how much they'll be paid for it? What reaction would you expect if you told capital "Give me your product and then I'll let you know what I'm paying for it"?
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Apparently food delivery services in the US do this too. When I first read about this a few weeks ago I was absolutely mind-boggled.
The whole idea of "tipping" is broken (Score:3)
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I'm not sure who really thinks tipping is a 'good idea', but it is so universal in the US that you usually can't avoid it. It is almost impossible to get a meal or groceries delivered in the US without having an underpaid, 'gig' delivery driver involved. They almost always deserve more money, so you tip them.
While I've heard of 'no tipping' restaurants that pay more, I've never actually seen one in person.
- Necron69
Re: The whole idea of "tipping" is broken (Score:2)
Yes.
Shoppper should set their fee. The customer then decides if itâ(TM)s worth it or not.
If they decide to add a tip before or after delivery, it should be locked as a lower limit at that time. If they want to raise it, thatâ(TM)s allowed. But, no downgrading.
When I was growing up, I was taught that you donâ(TM)t tip the owner of a business - they set the price or fee. You do, however, tip the workers. The owner already got paid.
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Have you dealt with Instacart? Occasionally, you get a "shopper" who picks up almost entirely the wrong order-- everything you put on the list, they buy something close, but different. Then you complain, and refuse to accept the groceries.
They apologize, your money is (eventually) refunded, the shopper keeps the groceries, and that's when you realize that the image on the website for the shopper doesn't match the person who delivered your groceries.
Essentially, a friend of the shopper did the shopping, bo
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It's not a good idea and in fact I think a large amount of Americans oppose it in concept but nobody want's to be the jerk who doesn't help the person making below minimum. It's cultural and those are traditions that are hard to break. I would support it's absolute ban if tied into a far higher minimum wage adjusted for local economies, as well as declaring these delivery drivers straight up employees. Restaurants, valets, and deliverers will have to charge more but right now those costs are a market dis
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It's a ridiculous system that people in Europe seem to do perfectly well without. But you can't just wish it away, you've got to change federal law.
US law allows employers of tipped employees to pay them a minimum wage $2.13/hour. At that rate if you worked 40 hours you'd take home $80.20 a week, so you absolutely can't survive without tips.
What's more this administration's Department of Labor has proposed allowing employers to expropriate tip income and redistribute it to other employees, allowing them
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It is beyond me how some people consider "tipping" a good idea. If you believe your work is worth N bucks, then charge N bucks for it. If demand decreases, maybe consider lowering the price.
Tipping does this automatically.
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Unable to go to the grocery store? (Score:3)
Where in the world were people forbidden to go to the grocery store, while allowing others to go shopping on their behalf? This is a mistatement at best. The covid-19 restrictions did not create a huge upsurge in physically disabled people. Instead you got an upsurge in people unused to going shopping so often, those used to eating out for every meal, or those who were anxious and scared to go outside (better that "the help" gets sick instead).
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If you're a high risk category for COVID-19, staying home is a much safer alternative than going out, especially early on when it was spreading like wildfire.
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Where in the world were people forbidden to go to the grocery store
Being forbidden and being unable to are not the same thing.
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Right, there was a huge new spike in people who are unable to leave the home? Or just those self proclaiming themselves to be high risk?
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Right, there was a huge new spike in people who are unable to leave the home? Or just those self proclaiming themselves to be high risk?
Yes there was. Many people with pre-existing conditions were medically advised not to go outside. People who relied on assistance or care even something as simple as being driven to the supermarket were advised not to go. To say nothing of the advice of common sense approach that if you so much as have a sniffle you shouldn't go out in public.
I'm not sure why you criticize "those self proclaiming". When it comes to your body no one knows it more than yourself. You should thank those people around you who s
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Because the people I know who started using this service (as opposed to those with disabilities already using it) are generally those already spending extra money on online services or apps because they have more disposable income. Ie, those who use ride share to deliver food from the restaurant a few blocks away..
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People who were sick or suspected they were sick?
It's generally frowned upon right now to go to the grocery store when you're sick...and current guidance is to isolate for 10 days past symptoms and 72 hours without fever in case it's Covid. Not everyone keeps 10+ days of food at home and at a certain point it's cheaper to buy groceries than order Uber Eats for breakfast, lunch, and dinner...
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Its not so simple.
if you take the extreme case where only professional (instacart like) shoppers were in stores, you likely have people who have more practice with covid safety procedures, and reduce the overall risk of infections. This may be overall safer than lots of random people going to the store, some of them not following appropriate procedures.
Also, with so many people out of work, its a reasonable job (assuming the net pay is OK, which I don't know).
I don't see any particular downside to it.
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The shoppers are just gig workers. They're not specially trained, they just need to supplement their meager uber earnings. Sure, some people at the stores are not practicing safety procedures, and yet the gig worker is going there anyway. They're more expendable than the customer?
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Neither more nor less expendable. If I assume they have the same innate competence as the customers on average, then since they spend more time shopping, they will have more practice with the procedures and be better at them.
Why tip at all? (Score:3)
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In some countries you tip police officers. They give you better service that way. And let's face it, congresscritters don't like it if you don't tip them and may pass laws that aren't in your favour.
Despicable (Score:2)
customers bait shoppers with a big tip and then reduce the tip to zero after they receive their groceries
Seriously, what kind of miserable c*nt does one have to be to pull such bullshit?
If you're too cheap to tip, then don't tip. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Scamming low-income service providers is just despicable.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Excellent point!
Since the tip is known to the employers they can use that to pretend that they are paying more.
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Never tip in cash. I have to pay taxes on my income. I'm not encouraging service workers to skip out.
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The problem with tipping cash in the US is a) most ATMs only give $20 bills, and b) most banks are only open when I am at work.
List Average Tip% (Score:1)
Maybe all these "gig" sites should list the average tip *percentage* the customer pays. Then all of these cheapskates would show that they are "zeros" and the workers would know what was expected.
Cash (Score:2)
I leave the standard tip on the form and then cash at the delivery point.
When you do this your orders get picked quickly. Word gets around. Cash isn't reversible.