Microsoft Re-Brands PlaysForSure 194
mikesd81 writes "Information Week writes about a licensing change intended to 'beat Apple at their own game'. They're going to use a combination of branding and DRM, and replace the "PlaysForSure" logo with a "Certified for Windows Vista" tag.'The certification is used to guarantee compatibility with Microsoft's copyright-protection software and is the same logo used for the company's Zune player. The problem, however, is that music and video bought from the online Zune Marketplace won't play in their native format on other devices, including those that will carry the new logo.'"
Plays for maybe? (Score:5, Funny)
No... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Plays for maybe? I'm thinking they left out (Score:2)
-tex
-en
ie, playtex4ensure
I could also imagine this as a password on an AOL disc...
PlaysForS*** (Score:3, Funny)
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no, it plays for an hour. makes you wait then reboots 3 times.
reboots4sure might be better and more accurate.
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Re:Plays for not at all? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Plays for not at all? (Score:4, Insightful)
How is this worse than Microsoft's play?
What's confusing about Microsoft has done here is called PlaysForSure "Vista Compatible" while ignoring the fact that it also works on XP and whatever else. They also call Zune music "Vista Compatible" but the two formats are not compatible with each other.
Or with music players that most of the world owns.
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Obviously, don't pay for either one.
Re:Plays for not at all? (Score:5, Informative)
1. Apple creates proprietary iTunes schema, as none such existed in the market. Sticks with it for ten years. Starts to transition to universal MP3's.
Microsoft:
1. Microsoft creates proprietary PlaysForSure schema in response to apple. Partners with lots of companies to push as an proprietary but licenceable standard. Sells PlaysForSure tracks on MSN.com.
2. Microsoft abandons PlaysForSure, destroying the standard. Microsoft instead sells the Zune, with zune-specific music tracks.
3. Microsoft sticks PlaysForSure and Zune DRM together as "Certified for Vista." Except that things which are all "Certified for Vista" will play with Vista, but won't actually play with eachother. And it will play with non-Vista things. Right.
So the music player with an estimated 2% of the market is paired with an OS that has 6%. Good luck with that!
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This is a big distinction, and a huge part of the reason why PlaysforSure never took off. You really don't know if your media will playforsure at all now do you?
This is also part of a growing tre
How about XP? Confusing? (Score:5, Insightful)
I also don't know what music and music players have to do with Vista other than the DRM. They should rename it: "Plays only on Vista, bitches" and then say like... bitches.
Apparently the front page is now also infected with DRM since I can't post anything and it keeps logging me out.
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PlaysForSure + Certified for Windows Vista? (Score:5, Insightful)
a subtle hint for the future? ie that you will need Vista to play anything new?
Re:PlaysForSure + Certified for Windows Vista? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:PlaysForSure + Certified for Windows Vista? (Score:5, Insightful)
There. I'm not even an Apple fanboy, but that's an easy target for a "Hi, I'm a Zune," "...and I'm an iPod" commercial. Or better yet, "I'm a generic MP3 player, and content you purchased for me will play on damn near anything."
Re:PlaysForSure + Certified for Windows Vista? (Score:5, Funny)
Dream on MS (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I should say, though, that everyone should stop buying DVDs until they drop the CSS. I've never bought a DVD.
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What ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Same plan (Score:2)
The very phrase itself is part of the incomprehensibility, thus everything is going to plan.
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or (Score:2)
Maybe better? (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe illegal though (Score:2)
This treads pretty close to the definition of tying--after all their copy-protection system is just one of many that can run on Windows Vista, and technically it is a distinct system, separate from the core operating system.
Re:Maybe better? (Score:4, Insightful)
Certified confusion (Score:4, Funny)
How does this play with a former "PlaysForSure" device that is intended only for XP? What about the Zune (which, AFAIK, still doesn't work with PlaysForSure media, but *does* work with Vista?
Seriously, are MS intending to hand Apple a computer media format monopoly on a silver platter?
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MS: Anything to make peace. I just want us to be friends.
Apple: That's so sweet. And what's this? An apple? Looks delicious too...
MS laughs evilly under its breath
Re:Certified confusion (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, if you mean the paltry $128M or so that Microsoft paid Apple for some non-voting, non-dividend stock back in the 90s, Apple had a couple of $Billion in the bank at the time. AAPL stock price was tanking because of lousy management, not lack of cash.
The money was actually a settlement of some lawsuits by Apple at the time, the "investment" thing was a face-saving figleaf that Gates required if Apple ever wanted to see another version of Office for Mac.
And yes, there were plenty of Apple fanbois moaning about it and accusing Apple of selling out.
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I answered it about 10 messages back, in my original response.
They accepted it because it was in settlement of lawsuits for IP infringement that Apple had filed against Microsoft (and looked to be winning). This settlement didn't commit Apple to anything (other than dropping the lawsuits), since it wasn't even voting or dividend-bearing stock (essentially it was just paper).
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Because it was money?
Corporations are rarely (though, still, it happens) anything like "deadly enemies" outside of the mind of their respective fanboys. They were, of course, competitors in some markets, but MS was also the vendor of a software package that Apple felt was important for its platform. They weren't "deadly enemies", they were companies that were each trying to make money. Apple
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Apple were being called "beleaguered" and "struggling" by a media hooked on those terms but the fact is that had around 2 billion dollars in cash reserves, were just about to launch the iMac, the iPod was in the works and the company was working hard on getting OS X into a public beta state. The company was struggling to get past the crap left by a bunch of poor CEOs and to raise their image, but not struggling financially.
You would have heard a lot of
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You assume I'm an Apple zealot, but I've said nothing to indicate that. You're projecting onto me (ew!). Look back at my original post. I made no value judgements about Apple beyond supporting the five-year Office deal. Somehow from that you deduced (incorrectly) that I'm a zealot, a fan
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Lets be honest, MS needed Apple around to have any hope of dodging an anti-trust ruling
That, too, but Apple is primarily Microsoft's R&D Department.
A previous poster had it right - the $150 million was a drop in the bucket compared to the cash Apple had on hand and it was indeed a patent settlement - a minor victory for Jobs. At the time, I read an article that Apple could continue to operate for several years even if they didn't sell one more computer.
The only thing Microsoft may have done to "save" Apple was to keep making Office for the Mac as part of the agreement. Those w
Makes no sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Somebody at Microsoft has lost their minds.
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Not quite. They have lost many things true, but I suspect the strategy here is to slowly migrate the PFS logo into the Vista/Zune world, and begin rejecting hardware that doesn't meet with the Zune/Vista level that they control alone. In other words, if nobody can match their lockdown, then they alone control the market. Yes, all of this supposes MS doesn't have to compete - so its horribly flawed.
For example, Nokia may have a PFS-compatible device, but it won't be Zune-capable anytime so
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Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)
BEEP. You fail it!
Compatibility was never the idea of PlaysForSure. First of all, PlaysForSure is DRM. DRM is all about making sure things _don't_ play for sure. Secondly, Microsoft introduced the Zune with a PFS-incompatible scheme, without so much as blinking.
I don't know what exactly the strategy is, but it smells like sucking as much money as they can out of as many idiots who will fall for it. First, they bought into PlaysForSure. Then, Microsoft introduced the Zune...which would have made Zune DRM the tech to get, had it taken off. Now, those who bought into PlaysForSure is screwed because it isn't what Microsoft's _own_ player uses. And those who bought into Zune are screwed, because nobody uses the damn thing.
And Microsoft, who brought them to this hell, is sitting on piles of money.
And it became night. And it became day. Just another day in monopoly land.
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I also don't buy stuff from online music places, at least not yet. Haven't seen anything compelling.
My wife needed a song for something she was working on, and she bought it from walmart.com. Honestly I didn't know walmart had a music store???!?. Anyway, it was a
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Luckily, and shockingly, unlike most market situations where consumers just sit back, receive bad service and products, and pay for them anyway, in this case (the larger case of DRM) it seems that consumers are doing the right thing and not buying it. That's all libertarians like me ask: if a product sucks, don't buy it, and tell your friends not to buy it, either. If we all did that we'd have a market with astronomically higher standards.
So music playback pr
newspeak (Score:2)
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(As an aside, that's how Bush got the Every Child Left Behind act, the Dirty Air And Water act, the UNPATRIOTIC act, etc.)
Why not just no DRM? (Score:5, Interesting)
If Microsoft wants to win customers from Apple, they should just drop DRM all together. If Amazon and Apple (iTunes+) can do it, why not Microsoft?
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If Microsoft wants to win customers from Apple, they should just drop DRM all together. If Amazon and Apple (iTunes+) can do it, why not Microsoft?
Probably because that would show everyone that the delays in Vista, the crappy performance due to inserting DRM everywhere and all the customer alienation they have been working on the last years, was a complete and total waste of time that adds no value to the people that are supposed to buy their OS, and probably a waste of shareholder $$$.
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You are forgetting that Microsoft was and still is -- despite Gates' quote -- a huge proponent for DRM. Microsoft wants to be the gatekeeper to the entertainment world and to the connected living room. DRM was/is their vision of this tollbooth. Consumers buy electronics using Microsoft licensed technology, entertainment producers license softwares based on Micro
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It normally achieves this by using software to lock the user in and the competitors out. Success depends on (stealthily) restricting customers' and competitors' freedom.
Almost all vendors (including Apple and Amazon) play this game - but none of them are as committed or well-practiced as MS.
That's why MS can't and won't abandon market-restrictin
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The only thing that's close is the music subscription model which people seem to heckle on because they don't really seem to understand that its benefits has to mean there are drawbacks too, or that they only see the drawbacks and not the benefits.
"PlaysForMe" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, why shouldn't MS copy the ancient excuse of every tech support on the planet for their products? They copy everything else.
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That's probably one of the few genuine Microsoft inventions... they just trained their MCSEs well in the use of the dark side of the force.
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Correct slogan (Score:2)
The closest thing that comes to defining the spirit of the phrase "PlaysForSure" is the MP3 format, because it will play on the highest percentage of hardware in existence.
Dan East
Beating Apple at their own game? (Score:4, Insightful)
Riiiiight
Becuase Apple's game was to promote the iPod as being exclusively for one platform, and having multiple incompatible DRM formats. Funny, I though Apple did the opposite, and (unusually for Apple) made the iPod cross-platform, and implemented fairly simple DRM that is consistent across all its products.
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Sure. I don't like DRM any more than you. But there are huge differences between Microsoft's DRM and Apple's. Apple's has fewer restrictions, and it is very reliable. Microsoft's frequently doesn't work, is more complex, and has more restrictions. Its complexity is why they needed this "Playsforsure" branding. Even then, devices labeled "Playsforsure" would still fail with DRM supposedly designed for it.
It might be no different from a philosophical perspective, but consumers don't care about philosophy - t
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When did I say that DRM was good? Please show me the part of my post where I said that.
I don't like DRM one bit. I was talking about consumer acceptance in the marketplace. If the iTunes DRM was as convoluted, incompatible and as flakey as Microsoft's DRM - then the iTunes store would never have been a success in the marketplace.
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So please define "fairly simple DRM" then! Those were the words you used in connection with iTunes/iPod.
It's simple, because the restrictions are the same across all media files. It's simple, because it's fairly non-restrictive. For example, every song you buy from iTunes can be burned to a standard audio CD (stripping the DRM). Meanwhile, Microsoft's DRM allows vendors to prevent CD burning on a track-by-track basis. This means that when you buy something with Microsoft's DRM, you necessarily don't know what you are allowed to do with the file. It doesn't tie music purchases to a particular hardware config
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i for one (Score:5, Funny)
No WMA? No problem! (Score:4, Interesting)
Kidding aside, what is Microsoft's business plan with the Zune??? Judging from the vast numbers of deeply-discounted Zunes being dumped into the market (I bought mine for $80 on Woot), they can't possibly be making money on the hardware. The software is so terrible that I only use it when my music collection changes substantially, and their music store certainly doesn't have much going for it right now. What is the "attachment rate" for Zune store purchase? Its probably shockingly low.
The whole thing reminds me of Xbox 1 (and the 360 to some extent) where Microsoft deeply discounted the hardware hoping to make money on the software, but then didn't because their projections of attachment rates were completely off and the hardware was selling at just too great of a loss.
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Kidding aside, what is Microsoft's business plan with the Zune??? Judging from the vast numbers of deeply-discounted Zunes being dumped into the market (I bought mine for $80 on Woot), they can't possibly be making money on the hardware.
Maybe they are just trying to take some of the wind out of Apple's cash cow? Seriously, I love my iPod, but even I'd buy a Zune at that price if I were in the market for an MP3 player. Maybe the dumping is deliberate?
Ooooor, they could just be as incompetent as they seem. I'm not into conspiracy theories, and William of Ockham would probably choose incompetence.
Whazza works on XP? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are there any device manufacturers who are still.. (Score:2)
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Plays For Sure (Score:5, Funny)
...for small values of 'for sure.'
Know what REALLY plays for sure? (Score:3, Funny)
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Rarely talked about... (Score:2)
One of the aspects that was mentioned in this article that is rarely talked about is ease of use. Apple has gone out of their way to make it difficult for the user to mess up. The system is fully integrated because Apple has full control over all aspects of the system. It is easy for them to make changes in the itunes store, modify the itunes software, and change the ipod firmware to reflect the changes. They can do all of this internally and push it out to their customers when they connect online next.
Can other players be compatible with Zune? (Score:2)
Can other hardware makers now abandon their PlaysForSure efforts and jump on the Zune DRM bandwagon, or will Microsoft not license it to them?
Of course, now that both are called "Windows Vista Compatible" this idea is harder to explain... I can see it now:
"Can we stop making Windows Vista Compatible players, and instead adopt the new Microsoft DRM scheme to make our players Windows Vista Compatible?"
Microsoft versus Apple? (Score:2)
Why not just call it Microsoft Janus? (Score:2)
Also, why are companies still using this? Microsoft basically said "fuck you" to all content providers using Janus with the introduction of the Zune, and now it seems they're going even more to kill it.
"Certified like vista" (Score:2)
A Little Pity (Score:2)
Microsoft software never did (Score:2)
Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Informative)
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"I am STUCK on BRAND-AID cuz LOONY's STUCK on ME..."
Seems like vista's the Chevy Nova of operating systems versions. Remember the Nova being sold in Spain? It didn't sell well or at all because over there (an anywhere in Espa~nol) "novas" means "doesn't go/won't go" basically, "unreliable".
Rebrand Vista to Novas.
But, looking at reversing things, I "Googled" "atsiv", and found:
http://vista.blorge.com/2007/07/30/symantec-free-utility-tool-by-passes-vi [blorge.com]
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http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp [snopes.com]
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I assume by this you mean DRM music bought from the iTunes store (not everything purchased from it has DRM), in which case, apart from one of five simultaneously authorised Windows or Mac computers, Apple TV devices, iPhones, iPods, and any device capable of playing a standard audio CD or copying tracks from it to a computer (playlists can be burned to CD up to seven
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Yes and no (Score:2)