Unlock Your Doors With a Knock Code 408
Erica Campbell writes to tell us IsraCast is reporting that E-lock has developed a new kind of lock technology designed to open a door based on a "knock code." From the article: "This innovation is based on patented technology which uses a series of quick knocking sounds. The discrete mechanical knocks open the lock and are produced by a small device that can be carried by any authorized person. The device which opens the lock needs to touch the door (which can be made out of any material such as metal, wood, plastic or glass) to cause the lock mechanism to open. Since there is no keyhole or contact point on the door, this unique mechanism offers a significantly higher level of security then existing technology."
cool (Score:2)
Re:cool (Score:2, Insightful)
using a pseudorandom generator with the current time, and your pincode as seed.
Knock, knock? (Score:2)
Re:Knock, knock? (Score:5, Funny)
"Who's There?"
"d7ff8a900e3ef2ab33edc32aa9bf2ed7"
"Oh... k."
Security though obscurity... (Score:2)
So you have security though obscurity but without the obscurity?
Re:Security though obscurity... (Score:2, Insightful)
RTFA. Why do you (and about half the other commenters so far) naturally assume that the technology is that simple?
"Even more importantly, if an unauthorized person tries to record the knocking sequence and play it back in order to open the door, the lock will not open since the knocking sequence changes every time"
As another commenter noted, the main reason this is a bad idea is that you're SOL if the battery or power is out.
Re:Security though obscurity... (Score:2)
Not sure how this particular device works but... (Score:2)
Re:Security though obscurity... (Score:2)
Even more importantly, if an unauthorized person tries to record the knocking sequence and play it back in order to open the door, the lock will not open since the knocking sequence changes every time.
Re:Security though obscurity... (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyone in audio range can hear the notes as you dial numbers on lots of home alarm systems too. They're considered fairly secure anyway. Hopefully they've stopped including this 'feature' on newer systems.
Here's why I think this is all irrelevant anyway: This lock isn't intended, or at least isn't ideal for home use. The fact of the matter is that the locking mechanism on the doors isn't usually the weak point of a person's home. Most break-ins rely on poor security practice and the weak structural strengt
Re:Security though obscurity... (Score:2)
Power failure? (Score:2)
Re:Power failure? (Score:2)
You have just described in a public forum a procedure for circumventing a security technology. Helpful SDMA enforcement personnel will be with you shortly. Please do not offer resistance when they break down the door, and thank you for your cooperation.
If only... (Score:2)
1) Invent interesting tech
2) Develop product
3) ???
4) Profit!
Justin.
Cool, but cars have had radio locks for years (Score:2)
I don't really see how this is better than a swipe card or a rfid card for businesses. In the meantime I'll make do with a traditional mechanical key & lock.
Insightful. Very. (Score:2)
Electronic ignition, immobilisers, all of these toys mean the vehicle can be put out of action by an EMP that would
Re:Cool, but cars have had radio locks for years (Score:2)
With the new Prius, it's easy. When you walk away, the doors lock and the engine shuts off. Along with that, the lights shut off. If you walk away and the lights are still on, then check if your fob fell out of your pocket.
Then again, you're screwed... (Score:2)
Re:Then again, you're screwed... (Score:2)
Secure? (Score:2)
Replay the sequence by putting a speaker with a small metal bar attached to the membrane to produce actual knocks.
Than is better than then (Score:2)
If you get locked out.... (Score:2, Funny)
Badaboom!
My brain is exploding, please help (Score:2)
Keyless locks - not that new... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Keyless locks - not that new... (Score:2)
Re:Keyless locks - not that new... (Score:2)
Re:Keyless locks - not that new... (Score:2)
I have one of those too. I use it on occasion to demonstrate to clients (I'm a locksmith) why they don't make them anymore. A couple raps with a plastic or rawhide hammer with pressure on the shackle opens it right up without damaging it.
Re:Try "lock-less" lock (Score:2)
Which doesn't change a thing. The door is still vulnerable to a heavy ram or a blowtorch.
Door bell (Score:2, Funny)
In other news... (Score:2)
Don't drink and knock (Score:3, Insightful)
"Bye dude...thanks and whatever...yeehaa..."
"Okie...so now what was the knock again...."
knockity, knockity, knoccck
Invalid entry. Please try again.
knock, knock-de-knock
Invalid entry. Please try again.
knock, knock, knock
Invalid entry. Please try again.
Kicks the door. Mutters all known curses.
Invalid entry. You have 2 more options before the system is locked for the next 12 hours.
Re:Don't drink and knock (Score:2)
Besides, having the user knock on the door manually would have a much bigger problem than forgetting your knock - someone else listening to it and reproducing it when you're out.
Anachronism: Metal Keys (Score:2)
The problem with this particular design is that the lock needs a power source.
Re:Anachronism: Metal Keys (Score:2)
You can. It's called a lock pick.
New definition for brute force entry (Score:2)
I used a traditional brute force entry method...
No my fist cracked the door in a more literal sense.
Of course there are always BACKDOOR attacks
In Soviet Russia, Door Knocks You!
O RLY
please type the word in this image: subdue random letters - if you are visually impaired, please email us at pater@slashdot.org
*hic (Score:2)
the door is not the weak point here. (Score:2)
[1] what keeps an unauthorized person from usinging this device? if is biometric or combination coded, why not just put those features in the door?
[2] the key is the weak point of any keyed system. The most that typical att
In other news..... (Score:2)
why might this be a good idea? (Score:2)
(b) keep out the deaf
(c) keep out people with no hands/knuckles?
(d) keep out lock pickers until they figure out how it works
that's all i can come up with
"Shave and a haircut, two bits" (Score:2)
You can't record the knocks...From TFA (Score:2)
Dont think it's as secure as they say. (Score:2)
They mention that the code changes in a rolling code kind of way then they mention the above. This leads me to believe it has th same setup as garage door openers do which is if the rolling co
In other news... (Score:2)
Picking locks with a parabolic mic (Score:2)
Port knocking... (Score:2)
Better security (Score:2)
There are others that work on combination locks (doors on commercial premises have had these for years too)
Sounds dubious, but... (Score:2)
Or, no, wait...do knock it.
'Gluing' a knock lock (Score:2)
What if the firmware crashes in it. If the space it locks does not have an alternate means of entry, they couldn't even pull the hinges off to get at the lock. They'd need a fire axe or a jaws of life to get in again.
All that would have to be done to wedge the door is jam the sonic 'knock' channel. It seems that it would be fairly easy to make a device that sent pseudo random knocks into the door on a constant basis. That would overlap if any knock c
Prior Art (Score:2)
"Open Sesame!"
I think they used the wrong word (Score:2)
Don't they mean "a signifigantly higher level of obscurity"?
Which Department? (Score:2)
Taplock - In my car. (Score:2)
It works by me simply tapping (kocking) 3 times on the side of the car where the gas filler is. That "wakes it up" then I can tap in my code... one code for the door and another code for the trunk. It works perfectly and nothing is visible outside to let anyone know it's there.
Bill
Personal Code (Score:2)
Knock knock... (Score:2)
Who's there?
Your neighbor who just broke into your house...
Than, not then. (Score:2)
Then is not a comparative, it's a conditional. It's than that needs to be used in its place.
*shakes head*
Easy Hack (Score:2)
I know, I know, that is not what they meant by a knock code.
Weakest link? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's only a significant improvement if the old lock was the weakest point.
Kicking in the door, unlocked / poorly locked windows (or just a brick), carding the door, open skylights
At a guess, I'd say windows, not doors are the weakest physical link in security, with "leaving the back door unlocked" a close second.
-- Should you trust authority without question?
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:3, Informative)
*Sigh*....please RTFA next time.
From TFA:
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2, Interesting)
What methods have they developed to make the next sequence purely unpredictable? If the next knock sequence is computed from the old one, then the "listening" method is still valid. And if it isnt, one could replicate whatever variables either of the devices (Door or key) make use of to generate the next key.
And then, we're back to square one. Stealing the key is just as easy as stealing todays regular lock keys.
Garage Door Openeners / Resynch codes (Score:2)
These will most likely include some method to resynch the two, like cycling garage door openers. Planes flying overhead can trigger garage door openers...
Could a rumbling garbage truck accidentally trigger my door.
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2)
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:3, Insightful)
changes every time
The alphabet is so small though. Short and long beats and short, long, and zero rests. That's 4 characters. If it can be assumed that no one will use consecutive rests, there is still limited number of passwords.
Remembering different passwords is painful, espec
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2, Insightful)
- this message uses only 0 and 1 characters -
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2)
I love your idea of using mouse clicks though. I don't think it would be as difficult to memorize the click pattern as you could use a visual prompt(flash?) that would change to the 'beat'. So click-rest-click-click could be represented by the appearance and disappearance of
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2, Interesting)
Sigh. In the article (which you didn't read) they say this will not work, because the knock code "changes each time". Probably some combination of your "personal key" (PIN) and date/time/etc.
What I don't see is why this is any more secure than a smart card. If it is such a big deal not to have a reader "on the surface", then just have a reader embedded in the door (i.e. induction-based). There are already smartcards that also change their code with each use (eg for remote logins to secure networks). The "k
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2)
This puts a keypad on the device.
All current pin number + smart card doors have the keypad mounted on the door. This doesn't.
Your suggestion of an induction card reader to eliminate visible door fixtures doesn't give you a keypad.
The "knock" aspect screams gimmick to me.
Calling it "knocking" might be gimmicky marketing, but using audible/vibration to transmit data instead of RF is hardly a 'gimmick'.
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:3, Insightful)
Another view of this is that millions of locks in the world are not really there for security, they are there for safety reasons and managing the keys for these is a nightmare. Utilit
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2)
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2)
Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Use it!
Butthead: Huh huh...like...rock on with your bad self.
Re:this knocking sequence seems too easy to copy (Score:2)
This product falls under (cryptographic) snake-oil.
Re:Hacking it. (Score:2, Informative)
That's good... (Score:2)
Re:Hacking it. (Score:2)
Although i thought of using an infared laser microphone to get the vibrations on the door (thus no visible microphone near the door, you just need line of sight).
But othervise just too easy to copy (I think a cheap mp3-recorder would be suficient to record the sequence, and then you just need an amplifier and a speaker placed directly against the door and adjust the volume to satisfy the reciever i the door.
Yours Yazeran
Plan: to go to Mars one day with a hammer.
Brute force it (Score:2)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyway, point is, the strongest PKI based lock is pointless on a hollow core door with 1ply and cardboard, or even
Re:Higher security? (Score:3, Interesting)
I bought my current house from a dogy character. He had a deadlock in the front door about one foot off the ground. I supose the principle is that if somebody tries to kick their way through the door it is going to be a lot harder if they are kicking between two good locks.
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
It also assumes that there aren't any possible points of entry (like windows) that are less secure than the door.
Re:Higher security? (Score:2, Interesting)
I wouldn't say pointless. Sure, you always need to be aware of what the weak link is, but for less than high-security applications there are still some important differences between a traditional lock and a door you have to bash open, even if the brute force route is available to anyone:
- detection during attack
Ever tried breaking into a building/room? (Score:3, Interesting)
* 25 lb, 66" pinch point crowbar
* 44" bolt cutters
* Standard crowbar
The pinch point crowbar has a knock-knock that no door can resist.
Re:Higher security? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
I still throw a cheap lock on it to prevent 'joy rides'.
Re:Higher security? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
I sure hope its not the sequence of knocks thats pattented. We have had the code knock for a very very long time.
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
tip tat tat tat tip tat tat
Hell I'd be willing to bet that at least 5% of the install base will have that one.
-nB
How about (Score:2)
The door then responds: tat tat
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
that assumes a static code
you can readily make the key device dockable (once inside the door of course) where it uploads some quantity of new codes, any of which will open the door, but once a code is used a single time it is discarded by both the key and the door
this is actually a rather ingenous device, and might be most useful in situations where you have a hidden door as it allows you to have zero visibl
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
Re:Higher security? (Score:2)
No, but it would be an efficient DOS attack. Of course you could glue the knock-protected door shut or something too, but it's a bit more involved than just trashing a card reader.
Of course you could do the same thing with a contactelss card reader behind the door.
Re:Knock knock.. (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, but is the user's knock secure? (Score:2)
You really should RTFA before commenting.
Re:Yeah, but is the user's knock secure? (Score:2)
Did anyone here actually read the article? You must have the unlocking device in your hand to opperate the door. It isn't as simple as listening to someone else's knock, you still need the "key". Actually, it even says this in the summary.
Nobody on slashdot actually reads the blurbs, yet they all act like they are so much smarter than the person who wr
Re:Yeah, but is the user's knock secure? (Score:2)
User knock codes must be changed every 30 days.
Pay no attention to the fact that the thing has a numeric-only keypad.User knock codes must use at least three different knuckles.
User knock codes must contain at least one upper-case and one lower-case knock.
Use knock codes must not contain repeated digits.
User knock codes may not be all-numeric.
Re:The $8.95 lock-pick, at your local Hallmark sto (Score:2)
Exactly! Except in reality, you'd come back to where your fancy birthday card recorder used to be, because the owner, after unlocking the car, got into it and drove away, taking your birthday card recorder with them. heh...
The actual tech's not that simple though; as everyone has already point
Re:The $8.95 lock-pick, at your local Hallmark sto (Score:2)
So as a rough guess, you have several min
Re:shave and a haircut... (Score:2)
Honestly through, I can see "shave and a haircut" being used by the same people that use "password" or "ch4ng3m3" as their permenant password.
Thieves must be drooling at this one...
Re:naysayers (Score:2)
Re:Brilliant! (Score:2)
same thing that happens when you forget your keys.