Shaolin Monks May Sue Over Tale of Defeat by Ninja

Socguy writes "A unique story on the CBC website details an even more unusual conflict. A Chinese Shaolin temple has demanded an apology from 'an Internet user who claimed a Japanese ninja beat its kung fu-practicing monks in a showdown.' A letter from the members of the temple, posted on the Internet on Thursday, denied the fight ever took place and called on the person who posted the claim under the name "Five minutes every day" to apologize to the temple's martial arts masters. Monks from the temple, which is located in the Songshan Mountain region of the Henan province, said they will consider legal action if he or she doesn't make a public apology."

Someone

Someone just won at Internet trolling.

Hear that, Slashdot trolls? When you get written up by Reuters, that's when you've arrived.

Re:Someone

Naw, when you get your target to make threats of legal action in front of other people you win. This is an example of a troll achieving satori. I just pray that, like the Buddha, the troll in the story is content to return to our level and help the rest of us achieve enlightenment.

The case

If that case ever gets any where I know I'd like to precide over it.

"I'm sorry but theres only one possible answer to all this"

Ninjas descend from ceiling and take a stance.

"Round one! FIGHT!"

[Much later]

And then, just as it seemed the fighting would come to a conclusion, a ship flying a skull and cross bones moored at the local pier...

In the words of Judge Kozinski...

"The parties are advised to chill."

On the other hand, Buddhist monks spend a decent amount of their studies on the subject of humor, so maybe this is simply the single greatest cultural practical joke ever perpetrated...a Zen masterpiece.

Wouldn't happen that way

Ninjas were assassins used in feudal Japan and as such, if they were seen, they'd already failed.

What happened with a Ninja, you would simply be found dead the next morning. Or perhaps never found. That was a successful Ninja. I train in a Japanese system based on fighting styles used in the 15th and 16th century and just for fun, we'll try a few simple techniques that are/were attributed to Ninjas. Now I suspect there really were never Ninjas, but I'll play along for 2 hours to have some fun.

Typical is that as you walk by somebody (opposite way), if you grab their arm and yank straight down, they will fall. It seems like it shouldn't work, but it does. And it only works if the person doesn't expect it. If you fall backwards quickly like that, you'll be stunned for a second or two. If the attacker has a knife, you could be dead within seconds. That's (to me) the essence of Ninja stuff. Quiet, and striking when your guard is down, and then they're gone.

Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.

Re:Wouldn't happen that way

Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.

And just like the cowboy myth, and probably Arthurian legend, there is some historical basis for the ninja legend as well. I have studied (in an informal manner) feudal Japanese samurai culture, and run across some material related to ninja. Ninja basically began as traditional samurai that operated outside the code of Bushido in order to defeat their enemy. One almost certainly apocryphal story I ran across related the origin of "ninja" as follows:
It was considered a great honor for a samurai in an army attacking a city to be the first one across the city walls. In order to be able to claim the honor of being the first across the walls when battle began, a couple of bright lads got the idea to sneak into the city the night before! It became a short step from there to sneaking inside a city before battle to plant units that would spring up behind a city's defenses, assassinate enemy leaders before battle began, etc. Eventually, a few groups or even clans became willing to hire themselves out to perform such "dishonorable" actions, which naturally became more sophisticated as the "ninjas" gained experience in this type of warfare. But just like any other criminal organization, they didn't exactly advertise; this secrecy is probably what began the myth of the ninja, which was then exaggerated by the clans themselves as a form of PR. But I don't think there is any real consensus on the origin, or even exact role, of the ninja in Japanese society. The very nature of the myth itself makes it difficult to disprove. "The fact that you know nothing about this secret society of invisible assassins merely proves how good they really were!"

In addition...

The monks also stated that this alleged ninja must be produced for execution by means of the five-point palm exploding heart technique.

Re:In addition...

This just in :

Allesged Ninja has started training to master the One-point forearm indestructible defensive shield of Heavenly protection technique to counter the five-point palm exploding heart technique attack!

Pirates have issued an official statement claiming "they will still manage to get both of the other parties, although they are not sure about the role of monks in the conflict! Arrrrr!"

Re:In addition...

Mod parent down, (Score: -1, Misremembering Fictional Kung-fu).

Shaolin monks don't know the five point palm exploding heart technique, which is why Pai Mei was able to use it to massacre a Shaolin temple. Only Pai Mei knows the technique and he teaches it to no one. That is, except...

Better way to get the apology...

just turn up at his door and demand the apology be typed in... why mess about with lawyers... come on, you're Shaolin Monks... you don't need lawyers..

Re:Better way to get the apology...

Dude! What are you talking about??? Even the Shaolin monks respect the sheer deadly destructive powers of a *LAWYER*!!!

Rest assured that if the internet posting was about a *LAWYER* singlehandedly defeating and laying waste to all of the shaolin temple, there would be no refutal at all!

A lawyer would simply get end up showing prior art and a patent-in-progress filed on all of their techniques and get an injunction against the shaolin monks practicing their kung-fu!

Fear the deadly powers of a *LAWYER*!!!

Re:Better way to get the apology...

Lawyers? Hah. My monkeys will eat your legal documents and poop on your expensive shoes.

Fear the monkeys!

Re:Better way to get the apology...

I heard there was this one *LAWYER* who just totally flipped out and started sueing people. There was guys that weren't even involved and he sued them before they could even get ready. He even sued pirates...

Remember:
FACT - laywers are mammals
FACT - laywers totally flip out all the time

Uhh

If they're this upset over a potential loss of honor and respect they would get from the ninja story, I'd hate to see what they do in response to what they get for pulling this stunt.

The Year is 2007

The idea of a Shaolin Monk 'considering' legal action, in order to defend himself against a single bulletin board poster, just doesn't have the same impact, when we live in a day and age where another group of religious fighters abduct real reporters, cut of their heads, and post the video with all gurgling noises included, to the internet.

Re:The Year is 2007

Well, if my kung fu education based on bruce lee movies serves, they have all renounced violence and are living in remorse for all the lives they've taken, and it will only be after this legal action fails at restoring their honor that they will be forced to once again use their deadly skills to their intended effect.

Re:The Year is 2007

The idea of a Shaolin Monk 'considering' legal action, in order to defend himself against a single bulletin board poster, just doesn't have the same impact, when we live in a day and age where another group of religious fighters abduct real reporters, cut of their heads, and post the video with all gurgling noises included, to the internet.

You're right, especially since the muslims have already got that cool headwrap thing going on with only the eyes showing, not that different from a ninja. If they ever manage to master chi focus blasts, we're screwn! Unless we can find a white man who has learned their ways and can defeat them... American Taliban! But shit, he's already in jail. Still screwn.

Of course it's untrue.

Ninjas couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack.

This is just a cover story to draw attention away from the fact that several Shaolin Temples, were in fact, recently plundered by pirates.

Pirates rule.

Re:Of course it's untrue.

They were plundered by copyright infringers. Sheez, when will you people learn...

Pirates

What the hell do the Pirates have to say about all of this?

just a warning to others

They're just threatening early to discourage people from getting the truth out about the Chuck Norris showdown.

Next time...

1. Record the event
2. Post on YouTube
3. Have Large TV network steal it
4. Post that on YouTube
5. Get sued by TV network
6. Now you are a Pirate and can surely kick Ninja ass...
7. Profit (if you win the lawsuit).

There's no way ...

... that this story could be true. Everyone knows that if a ninja kicks your arse, no-one would ever live to see it, let alone write about it on the internet. Of course, the writer could be the ninja himself, in which case, DON'T PISS HIM OFF!

I *so* have this one:

Ballmer, in the temple, with the chair.

Re:I *so* have this one:

Ballmer, in the temple, with the chair, at Tenagra.

The beast at Tenagra.

Stallman, with the hippy hair and the odor at Tenagra.

The Beast and Ballmer and Stallman at Tenagra.

Ballmer in the stomach.

The Beast and Stallman on the Ocean.

Re:I *so* have this one:

Temba, his ass laughed off.

Lots of BS in the martial arts world

One of the things that frustrates me is that, although the Chinese and Japanese have known how to write for a very long time, the martial arts are very poorly documented. The result is that most of the transmission has been oral. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_tradition [wikipedia.org] Any given martial art (the monks are different) is probably passed down from father to son. Some families are willing to teach others. Some aren't. The Japanese tend to keep secerets, even from their senior students. Given the situation, it's no surprise that different martial artists have wildly different versions of the truth. The other complication is that most martial artists never fight real fights. (Point sparring doesn't count.) It is possible to spend years working on a given martial art and then discover that it is absolutely ineffective against the average street punk.

So, the question of the moment; could a single ninja beat a group of monks. It could happen. It depends on the ninja and the monks. Bear in mind though that the ninja are Japanese and the monks are Chinese so there's not a lot of opportunity for the match to happen.

What makes them look like bigger idiots?

1. Someone claiming that a Ninja defeated one of them
2. Suing someone for posting on the internet

Nuff said!

Some facts about Ninjas

These guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Facts:

1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Especially note 3 above. The Ninjas probably just went to the Shaolin Temple to talk about tea n shit, and then they just totally flipped out and killed all the monks.

Anyway, here is some more things about Ninjas.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?
A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?
A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)

 

I'd hate to be "Five Minutes a Day"

If he retracts his statement, he'll have a bunch of angry ninjas after him. If he doesn't retract, he's got a whole temple of kung-fu masters on his ass. I can't imagine a more troubling situation.

why not ask a ninja?

why not ask a ninja?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehQo7s_02sc [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEmss2lg-ug [youtube.com]

The True Sequence of Events

1. Human Weapon on the History Channel does a Ninjutsu episode.
2. Bill or Jason beats a Ninjutsu master
3. Human Weapon then does the Kung Fu episode.
4. Jason beats the Kung Fu master.
5. ?
6. Profiteering by the Pirates
7. Full cycle of Ninja/Shaolin Monk/Pirate debate is complete.

Selex

Not invincible

Shaolin monks are pretty cool, and their kung-fu is very awesome. However, there seems to be this aura of invincibility around their martial arts masters. People are so amazed at their abilities that they think beating them in a fight is such a huge deal. If this is the case, how come shaolin kung-fu masters aren't winning UFC championships and such? The reason is simple. Shaolin kung-fu is easily beaten by powerful grappling just as easily as scissor beats paper. When a huge Zangeif type person grabs all their limbs and holds them to the ground, their fancy kung-fu runs out pretty quickly. There's no reason a clever ninja couldn't have also come up with clever techniques to beat monks as well.

Re:Not invincible

As you touched on, one of the largest issues is that of regulated matches versus real life-or-death combat. Even with grappling - in a ring, a responsible fighter may put a lock on you that could easily destroy your joints, but only apply enough force to make you submit. The same goes for strikes.

As an example - a friend of mine is an assistant Kung Fu trainer. His Sifu has somewhere around 20 generations of Shaolin Kung Fu training behind him (as well as a style of Kung Fu that his great-great-great-great-etc. etc.-grandfather created). He started training basically as soon as he could stand, and studied under Bruce Lee for some time.

Get in a ring with him, and he'll destroy you - but you'll still walk away. Bruised, battered, and damn near ripped limb from limb, most likely wishing you had never even considered the fight, but you'll walk away in one piece. Someone who didn't know of his training tried mugging him - pulling a knife on him. By the time his attacker hit the ground he had 3 broken ribs, a fractured skull, a broken jaw, a broken leg, and an arm broken in three places (if I'm recalling correctly. I may have mixed up an arm broken in 3 places for a leg broken in 3, but the injuries are in general accurate). That was his measured response to assure that he was no longer in any sort of danger, the man could have been dead before his body dropped.

It's very hard to judge the effectiveness of one fighting style versus another unless you're looking at two people who are really out for blood.

Competition destroys martial arts.

The martial arts... Karate, Kung-fu, ju-jitsu and the rest were never designed as competitive sports. They were self defence systems. And they were and are brutally effective if trained and practised that way. The very idea that one is better than another is complete bullshit, they were never meant to be used against other martial artists, they were meant to be used against aggressive but largely untrained attackers.

However, the last hundred years many of them have turned into sports. You are no longer allowed to gouge out your opponent's eyes, fishhook their mouths or attack other dangerous points like the neck, throat, groin, back or stamp on them on the ground. Instead you score points, playing tag in the ring. This pretty much leaves you with punches and kicks. The original techniques that are encoded into the forms or kata are either hidden, forgotten or simply not trained.

Now, the concept that karate and Kung-fu are purely striking systems is utter, utter bollocks. The forms and kata of both systems have joint locks, chokes, strangles, throws, gouges built in for all to see, if you know what you're looking at. Yes, much of which can be used on the ground. You just have to recognise them and practise. Ju-jitsu originally had a fair level of striking in it as well.

If you're practising karate, kung-fu purely as a striking system then what you are practising is kickboxing, not karate, not kung-fu. Practising ju-jitsu without kicks and punches it's not ju-jitsu.

 

Re:Competition destroys martial arts.

Techniques that can't be practiced in balls-out unrestrained competition

For a start... There is no such thing. How exactly do I practise breaking someone's neck in "unrestrained competition"? All training has to be restrained, by definition. It's training, not real life. All competition has to be restrained, by definition. It's competition, not real life.

Now we have that out of the way, I agree, the more realistic the training the better the practitioner will perform. Hence things like "Animal Day [summersdale.com]". And other forms of non compliant training.

Sport styles are not the antithesis of practical self-defense styles; they are the practical self-defense styles.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but, no they are not. If it has rules, the training is inappropriate for the street. You have to get rid of the rules, which makes the training inappropriate for competition. UFC for example specifically prohibits the following... So the fighters simply won't practice the techniques.

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.

I'll stop quoting the UFC rules here, because it reads like a list of the "vital points" that a martial artist who's training for self defence will attack given the slightest opportunity. Eyes, throat, groin, my first three targets. And it isn't just me. Have a look at the Bubishi, hundreds of years old and they were aiming at the same targets then. Yes, I bite, gouge, fish hook, I strike down using my elbow with my full body weight and power on ribs, backs, necks, just anything I can reach.

As you should too if you want to defend yourself.
 

Re:Not invincible

The problem with UFC is it is an event designed to favor grapplers from the start. First my background:

Uechi-Ryu Karate (hard style, Japanese)
Kick Boxing
Hwa Rang Do (koren, has your normal stuff + pressure points, grappling, weapons)
5 years as a bouncer
Aikido
And a few other styles I did has my travels took me everywhere..

Grappling in a 1v1 controlled situation is VERY strong. If I faced the grappler the odds are I would lose, why? Because a lot of my moves are fingers to the eyes, strikes to the throat, kicks to knees, groin, palm strikes to the chins to snap the neck, etc. A normal response is well ya you are trying to have 2 guys fight not kill each other. Which is the point.

In a UFC type style competition they don't train to really defend themselves in the same as other styles. The rules are designed to favor those training just to compete in UFC.

As an ex bouncer of 5 years at a college bar (300+ people a night) if you grappled someone in real life you'd be dead. Got on top of someone and their friends WILL club you with bottles, or kick your head, stabbed, etc. I did see one guy grapple someone and see the guys friend pick up a chair and smash.

Grapple someone and land on the shitty floor on glass, cement, etc. you are very likely to hurt yourself also. Grappling also requires some room to mover and shot in. You don't have that in a crowded bar. You don't need room to take your fingers and jab it into someone's throat.

This isn't to put down grappling people. They are very strong, fit, skilled, etc. From my experience in the real world grappling is not what you want to use.

ninja's "calling out" shaolin monks?

Ninja's do not do competitions. This is something that Maasaki Hatsumi has said - there will never be an official Bujinkan representative at any competition.

As for the past - why would a ninja be so stupid as to fight in a tournament? The way a ninja fights is not in the open - they sneak and kill in secret, and only fight hand-to-hand when there is no alternative.

Would a ninja beat an entire group of shaolin monks? You bet. Wait for them to go to sleep, then pick them off one by one. Easy as pie.

Fact Check

There's only one Shaolin temple, even though the Songshan region is home to numerous martial arts training schools which use the name of "Shaolin." The Shaolin temple has recently taken legal action against such schools in order to preserve the integrity of its name and heritage. See: http://www.usatoday.com/money/2002-09-25-kung-fu-t rademark_x.htm [usatoday.com]

Compelled to reply by Nickname

Okay, this is a totally contentless reply. However, the monks referenced in the article title is more or less what inspired my nickname network-time eons ago. Thus, in many ways, this is the most personal Slashdot article I have ever seen. Thanks Zonk. -- The one true Shallow Monkey

In Related News

Ninjas beat The Tick in a fight. Arthur unavailable for comment. Wikipedia Entry [wikipedia.org] alleged tainted by Ninja employees. 'SPOOOOON' catch phrase reportedly up for sale on Ebay.

This is Barry (the Tick) reporting.

Well at least its Shaolin Monks...

"Five Minutes a Day" can at least be assured that the Shaolin Temple won't be sending Ninjas after them...

You might not be able to beat a Shaolin Master, but at least you will be likely to see them first :P

Bullshit

I call this story most probably mostly or completely bullshit .

Even if there is some truth to this, there's something else going on in the background, I seriously doubt any self-respecting monk would bother suing over some online comment. It doesn't make sense to me.

pirates

And after all the attention Shaolin monks are now receiving, the host of world wide pirates and ninjas have now ended their long time animosity and joined forces to defeat all Shaolin monks. It was a great fight, quite funny actually. I guess you had to be there.

Ah, Grasshopper ...

... until you can snatch the pebble from my palm, you will be pursued by lawyers and other creatures of the night.

I wonder what kind of process server Shaolin monks would use to serve notice to a ninja? I seems this might be the basis for a TV sitcom, with each episode having the hapless process server falling back to devise a new approach to sneak up on the ninja and serve the papers.

Ninja in Disguise

Well, it wasn't a Ninja at all. It was one of their own Shaolin Monks DISGUISED as a ninja who had returned to avenge the death of his sister which he blamed on the temples King Fu Master from years ago.....

Humour

The world needs more humour, especially certain parts of the world. The presence of humour in a society should be used to gauge its civility, tolerance and sophistication.

England used to be pretty good (Monty Python) but I think America has taken the lead unintentionally via Bushisms.

Now please slap me with a fish.

so what if we dont give a hoot

I have to say, being one myself, I don't think any ninja would have the time or energy to waste on little things such as pride. I would more so believe that some bystander saw something relating to a duel where there was a need for defense on some level and it is quite possible that a ninja could beat a monk or a monk could beat a ninja...depends on the level they are at.

A Koga region ninja could very easily beat a shaolin monk , but might have problems with a white crane kung-fu master....why, diff. styles, and diff. combinations, certain regions are closer, therefor have seen the other styles or have had influence on them.

I could even let you know that the present day GrandMaster Ninja Hatsumi sensei, not only is a ninja, but comes from a long line of samurai masters...his family were samurai, and he learned the ways of the ninja. SO anything is possible in this world, I have heard stories of how demeaning a monk could be to fellow peasants, and I have seen myself how family oriented and
how much value for life certain ninjutsu masters have,
I would hate to generalize as so many people do in their ignorance (and as in this article).

If it were a real shaolin monk , there would be no lawyers, as the duel would take place immediately afterwards, with the monk seeking out the indivdual (as it would be his duty)
and "finishing" the duel.

Both sides take no sh*t and I think it sad that someone could start this whole thing as a media frenzy, where if asked I bet neither side would really care about such clames.

Oh well

I for one welcome our new suing Chinese Shaolin overlords.

Sorry

Mixed Martial Arts

If UFC has shown us anything, it's that dependence on one single fight style is a death sentence. Kung Fu is a good workout, but is reduced to a fancy "dance" when your opponent actually steps in close enough to "grapple" with you. Israels Mossad has a pretty neat Mixed Martial Arts technique. But I'm not here to endorse a particular style. Mixed Martial Arts is exactly that, mixed. I'm sorry if the Shaolin Monks are worried that their style is losing it's generally accepted status as "most superior".

I'd sue too

I'd sue too if I was beat by these guys [hawaii.edu].

More unusual that unique?

"A unique story on the CBC website details an even more unusual conflict."

How can something happen and be more unusual than unique? There aren't that many integers between 0 and 1.

Legal action?

I'd be glad they're only threatening legal action. You wouldn't want them to come do the Shaolin version of a blanket party on you for posting a story about them, would you?

Just think about it -- Shaolin monks gone Mafia -- "I hear you said bad things about us, (beatings) that's not going to happen again, (more beatings) is it?"

What's next?

What's next? "Knights Templar call for far-reaching tort reform"? "Jedi Knights file civil suit against Empire for breach of verbal contract in Dantooine destruction"?* Sheesh. Just go kick the guy's ass -- isn't that more in keeping with this particular conflict?

* I'm embarrassed to have been able to cast this particular sentence as fast as I could type. Pardon me, I must now go freshen the tape on my glasses.

36 chambers

/*ancient chinese voice/ Shaolin shadow boxing, and the Wu-Tang swordstyle...

/*second ancient chinese voice/ If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be dangerous...

/*sound of swords being unsheathed.../ shhhiiiiinnngggggggg.....

/*first ancient chinese voice/ I'll let you try my Wu-Tang sword style

/*Sounds of intense sword-fighting and exclamations from combatants/

/*fade to black.../

Honestly, I'm not surprised...

Even if it didn't happen, I'm sure it could happen. I mean, just look at this website. How can you deny those facts? http://http//www.realultimatepower.net/ [http]

Pirates vs. Monks vs. Ninjas

Yet more proof, as if any was needed, that pirates rule. Shaolin Monks use lawyers to intimidate; Ninjas are intimidated by lawyers. Pirates, by definition, are not afraid of lawyers, and have no use for them except as ballast. QED.

we live in wierd time

Ninja: I will kick your ass
Shaolin Monk: I will sue your ass
Pirate: all your base are belong to us

Who Would Buddah Sue?

This is the most redicules thing I've ever heard of from supposedly Buddhist monks! What the Hell? I'm pretty sure that the whole freaking idea behind Buddhism is to let go of your ego. This is the most ego related thing I've ever heard of.

What happened to the times

What happened to the times when such a dispute was settled with a good thrashing?

Shaolin Challenges Ninja ... And Wins!

Afraid the facts mixed up.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0080172/ [imdb.com]

I own the actual fight footage and can attest that Chinese Gung Fu bested every style the Japanese could throw at it, and without Bruce Lee's help.

No legal defense technique was needed then, and still not now.

Confucius says:

If have sidekick in comedy act, funny har har

If receive side kick in kung fu, Yie Ar! Not funny, but still can be side-splitting