Google Ready to Bid on 700 MHz

Seppanen Style writes "The 700MHz spectrum auction looks like it's going to be heated. Google CEO Eric Schmidt has all but confirmed that Google will make a play for the spectrum that will be on offer next January. 'In effect, this could give Google control of the entire pipe between customers and Google servers, a move that could be very good for business strategy, even if the wireless network is not a major profit center. Companies never like to be at the mercy of other companies, and Google is no exception.'"

700 MHz?

I have one in my closet they can have. I'll even throw an extra 128MB of SDRAM!

Great, maybe we will see some money this auction.

Last big spectrum givawa^d^d^d^d^d^d^d auction I think most of the spectrum went for some sum just north of the cost of a large mocha. If the telco's get scared pissless from Google here we might just see a very heated auction rather than the collusion assgrab many of these things are in America.

What you mean we Kemosabe?

I consider myself a die hard republican and even I can recognize that we have a bunch of incompetent, self-serving grab asses in office. Given that this is the FCC this money should be put to opening a up public spectrum, researching lost cost internet or even contributing to NPR or PBS (yes... I'm a conservative who loves Nova, Frontline and All Things Considered). Instead it will be used to have a go at random super-bowl boobies and censor TV shows that are on when children should be in bed.

Not that I want an Democratic administration to have the money either.

Hmm... don't Australians have topless beach, beer, grilled shrimp and beer?

Does anyone know?

Does anyone know the specifics of what sort of limitations the FCC will put on the 700Mhz spectrum? Will they be able to transmit up to 15miles? Up to 100,000 watts? Something like that? Who is to say that the G people will be able to convince everyone in the US to use their pipes?

Re:Does anyone know 2?

However this spectrum must be open in two key ways [slashdot.org]
From the Summary

This portion of the spectrum also happens to be the one with two open access conditions attached to its sale mandating that all devices be allowed to access the band and that all applications can be able to run across the network.

This means that it may become the dominate frequency for off the shelf parts, since they know that no provider can actually keep their product off the market. Honestly you combine these rules with a device like the N95 or iPhone, add a little Skype, and what you get is Nerdvana, a network where you only pay for the pipe, but you can flush anything you want down it.

Re:Does anyone know?

Who is to say that the G people will be able to convince everyone in the US to use their pipes?

I've been thinking about this, and I don't think they need to convince anyone.

I mean, yes, I'd expect them to use the wireless spectrum to give them a "last mile" connection to all that dark fiber they've been buying up. But I think they'll also hook it up to the conventional Internet, and keep it truly network neutral. Once that's in place, AT&T can packet shape youTube all they want; all that will happen is that the best route will be via Google's fiber and AT&T will lose money because they won't be peering so much data.

If Google do this right, AT&T will have to stay network neutral just to stay in the game. It'll be typical Google; altruistic on the surface, with a business strategy behind it. It's going to be interesting to see how this issue develops :)

Offtoic, sure...

...but this being slashdot, I rarely rtfa's. Are all of arstechnica's articles well laid out like that? I'm used to some other websites whose articles are 3 paragraphs spread out over 17 pages or the like. I got to the end of this one, expecting more article. Turns out it was the end of the thing.

Kudos to them, I say.

billions and billions of dollars

This major for Google, and thus major for the Telecoms.

Google has many multiple billions in cash, and can always raise more.

vs.

The entire sucky telecom industry.

Not only that, but Google ace is open-standards.

May the best bidder win, and I hope it is open standards.

Looks like it's going to be heated

I think the 2.4GHz spectrum is where all the heat is.

Google wireless

Here's what I want:

$29.95/mo 3G wireless internet w/ basic voice plan.
Free text. because paying for text when it costs the telco so little needs to stop.
Bluetooth data access that actually works.

If they can achieve that (by 2009, not too hard), the phone system is done.

Only problem? the cell towers.

Leasing rooftops is hard

There are are more constraints to leasing rooftops than meets the eye. In most residential areas, Joe Blow can't lease his rooftop to a commercial entity without an insane amount of hoopla. Otherwise, all cell phone companies would have 100% coverage everywhere - and it's taken them years just to get to the 90-something percent coverage they have now.

In my neighborhood, the Metricom wireless network of yore (fairly cheap flat-rate 50 - 100k service, ubiquitous in the SF Bay Area in the 90s) was not available in my town, because the NIMBYs wouldn't allow it. Lot's of other towns with the same bad attitude as mine.

"Are you radio transmissions going to give my babies cancer?"

"I dunno - now, how many packs a day do they smoke?"

Actually, it will be VERY difficult

The majority of those towers are owned by the telcos. Normally, the cross license their towers with each other. But they all want this 700 MHz and now Google is saying that they are going to make wireless be CHEAP. Think that they will be in the mood to share? I think not.

Re:Actually, it will be VERY difficult

I'm not a Google fanboy, but if they want to raise a big middle finger to the collective telecom industry, then they can send me their wireless network hardware, some installation instructions, and I'll put it up on my roof myself. Who's with me? :-)

Re:Google wireless

Are we saying what we want for a $30 monthly fee?
Here's what I want:

$29.95/mo unlimited telepathy+teleportation

If they can achieve that the phone system is done. So is the airline industry. Probably the education system as well.

Only problem? We have no idea how to do it.

OH! Forgot something. I'd also like a pony [i-want-a-pony.com].

I Bet Google Will Lose

Google is playing with the worst of the worst kind of competitor with the telcos and I doubt they have the finances much less the dirty tricks to pull it off.

I'm very interested in hearing how others think it will play out.

Re:I Bet Google Will Lose

If market cap was actually an indicator of potential success in the auction, Google would lose.

The telecoms:
AT&T: $242 billion
Sprint: $53 billion
Deutsche Telekom (they own T-Mobile): $79 billion
Verizon: $121 billion

Versus:
Google: $160 billion

Luckily, there's more to this game than pure market caps. Google is probably better able to raise cash, and may also have more cash on hand, than the telcoms. On the other hand, though, you have companies that have been around for a long time, and are fairly good at getting what they want. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the auction. A Google win would be awesome, but the actual event should turn out interesting as well.

Google will win

They have the money to be the loss leader.

They can go in and undercut everyone to bring some sanity to the cellphone market.

Paying to text is absurd. Paying to send email is absurd.

They will probably come in with some kind of deal where you pay for voice and everything else is free. Given their infrastructure, they can probably pull that off.

If they go GSM with some advanced, high-speed data underneath. They will win, big time.

Get the google quint-band phone with GSM (700Mhz, 850 MHz, 900Mhz, 1.8Ghz, 1.9Ghz), bluetooth, cameraphone with automatic youtube and picasa updates. Total market ownage.

Seems sensible

The fact that Google offered to make a $4.6 billion bid for the spectrum implies (1) Google has $4.6 billion in capital available, and (2) Google has a use for that spectrum.

It seems reasonable to assume they would make a bid, even without the four openness rules - after all, if they win they can make their own openness rules, and if they don't win, it costs them nothing.

Market cap...

As of today, Google has a market capitalization (stock price x outstanding shares) of $160 billion. They could easily issue, say, 10% more shares and collect over $10 billion, even when considering the dilution that would cause. Even without that, their balance sheet shows total cash of over $12 billion, and zero debt.

It's not a problem for them.

Eple

Secret phone recordings suggest that Royksopp [wikipedia.org] are also involved in some shady underhand negotiations for 700MHz

(Phone rings) "Hello?"
"Yeah it's me... I wanna give you some good frequencies; 1710, 2.6, 2245..."
"Yeah"
"3032, 700"
(Surprised) "Seven hundred?!"
"Yeah."
"I'm coming right over."
"Do that."
"I'll be there in two seconds"

(Later)

"You bastard! You sold me 700 Terahertz!"
"That'll teach you to be more careful with your units next time."

The real question...

Do they accept paypal?

Bargaining position?

I am not sure Google is really interested in winning the auction. Their play might be to put pressure on the telcos in order to strike an access deal with them.

The telcos have something that Google wants: unfettered and maybe even exclusive access to their users. Telcos however are notorious for their habit of restricting their devices' access to services that net them more profit. Google knows that and knows that wireless devices may be tomorrow's prime mean of accessing the Internet. If this were to happen, search and content providers would have to strike very onerous deals with telcos in order to maintain access to their clientele.

As a result, the FCC's decision not to require open access to the Internet for users of the 700Mhz spectrum threatens to put Google's future in the hands of the telcos.

The menace to enter the telcos' market strenghtens Google's barganing position because
a) Google has the money to make good on that threat and may chose to do so as a defensive measure
b) the telcos need that spectrum a lot more than Google does.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear in the coming months that Google has struck many major long term deals with several telcos and has finally decided to bow out of the auction.

Re:Bargaining position?

That's where the fun is: They "win" without even paying a cent. They succeeded in adding the openness term to the auction. Now, they just need to place *ONE* minimal amount bid and look at the other players rip each other's throat to block them access to the airwaves. But, by placing the bet, they ensure that the openness clause will take effect

In the end, they'll just have to put out a device on the standard.

Now, they definitely could use that spectrum to actually create a last mile connection network. As they are rumored to already own a bunch of dark fiber, they would have a top to bottom network infrastructure. Enough to scare the telcos. Maybe Google will enter that market to ensure a free (as in unrestricted) connection to their customers. Maybe they'll just stick to online service and enter devices on a free network. The uncertainty will push the telcos to bid higher and they certainly don't have as much cash laying around as Google does...

Also would be good for the internet, and freedom

If i had to choose between Google and at&t, id choose google.

Mercy of other companies?

Companies never like to be at the mercy of other companies, and Google is no exception.

In my experience companies are perfectly happy to be at the mercy of other companies. It's hardly unknown for a company to source software products from a single company, for example, with no easy migration path to any other product.

Perhaps Google is the exception after all.

$28 Billion or thereabouts....

Is my guess at what the winning bid will be, and it's still chump change.

It translates into roughly $280 per household, which translates into $23.33/month. Currently the exclusive iPhone/AT&T packages run $50+ per month.

Quick ROI even at $28 Billion, methinks.

How will they make money?

Telcos make money by charging a customer (you a corporation etc..) to access their network. I read here everyone saying "Google give me free wifi....". Sure they will... and how will Eric Schmidt recoup this $4.6B plus maintenance, plus deployment costs, plus support costs..... etc etc) investment? Do you really think that the idea of "If I give everyone free wifi, they'll automatically use my search engine, Gmail, more?"

I forsee one day... a /. post/comment that complains "Google hasn't brought WIFI to *MY* area.... WAAAHH" I can't wait until we're all bashing Google the same way we bash ATT/Verizon/Sprint for their shoddy coverage.

I also can't wait to see what kind of antenna I'll need on my roof to beam a signal to the nearest TV tower.

GTel

Google is using its network, including all that dark fiber it bought, and the new wireless spectrum, to make a new "phone company". That will include integrated email, video, social networks, maps and everything else Google offers. That's why it tried to force this 700MHz spectrum to be "all open", including requiring all mobile devices using it to be unlocked.

Go For It, Google

The current carrier lock on licensed bands is a terrible drain on the U.S. economy and stifling innovation to an absurd degree. If it weren't for the carrier attitudes, the U.S. would have a true mobile Internet, probably hundreds of thousands of additional jobs in mobile device and app development, and a plethora of devices and apps that would make the iPhone seem archaic. Google is finally a tech company financially large enough that it is getting hurt by essentially arch anti net neutrality in the mobile space and has the ability to take on the carriers. It's well worth the price for Google to open up a whole new unfettered medium for their services. I hope they go all out, win the auction, and bring true competition to the industry. They would benefit and so would everyone else.

Google or AT&T... hmm, lemme think.

Google is powerful, yes.

But name the lawsuit that Google has for illegally wiretapping US citizens and giving control to the NSA.

And name the shifty business practice Google has for overpriced services, fees for EVERYTHING (including disconnecting certain services), and...oh wait, what was that again? Secret wholesale of Teir 1 backbones.

And name one horribly bad thing that Google has done in the name of user privacy. Name their practices with security, openness, and usability. Humor me by saying they charged users up the ass for it, or even had a single morally wrong revenue stream, whatsoever.

Google deserves more power. Until they fuck up like AT&T has, I give them nothing but my best wishes.

advertising

Phone Rings

Husband: Hey honey, What do want for dinner tonight?

Wife: How about some chicken?

Husband: That sounds good, how about some popeyes?

Wife: That sounds good, or we could ...

recording interrupting....

Recording: (uber-cheerfully) I hear you're looking for chicken in your area.... I'd just like to let you know that there's a KFC on The corner of Campbell and Howard. There is also a popeyes on the corner of vero beach and tracy, a KFC on the corner of

Husband: Shut up!!! I know where the chicken places are, I live here.

Recording: juno and tibedeau and there's a popeyes at 945 Main

Wife: just let it finish.

Recording: Street and there's a Publix at 177 center street.

husband: Damn Google and this cheap phone service. I can't even have a conversation anymore.

Recording: I heard google, Would you like to look something up? Perhaps how to buy 'conversations' on E-bay?

bittorent

so what woudl happen once every torrent user moves onto their network?

will the "do no evil" moto have to change then?

Yay Google.

Hope they win it. Of all of the companies that seem to be in the position to make a bid, I think google will be the ones who will try and benefit the community instead of close it up and abuse it. It's our airwaves afterall, our appointed officials are just selling it on our behalf.

Personally I'd like to see it default to amateur radio.

I, For one, welcome our new Googly overlords

No really, I welcome them! Hurry it up, guys, take over!

Network Neutrality

Says the article:

But just as importantly, it helps Google avoid any problems from non-neutral ISPs. After former SBC chief Ed Whitacre announced that Google shouldn't be able to "use my pipes free," Google saw a potential threat to its existence from the network operators that lay between it and consumers. Running a national wireless network could create enough competition that incumbent telcos simply couldn't implement their previous plans to charge companies like Google and Yahoo for better access to end users.

What Google should do is call up Yahoo (and any other web behemoths they can get), and start the 'Network Neutrality Organization', a non-profit in charge of the new huge swath of bandwidth that the group of them pool their cash to buy. It's in all their interest to have a neutral network, and it's equally in their interest to have a third party running it. Best of all, it's in the customer's interest, as well.

Re:The Google Challenge

If Google wants to "do no evil" why don't they fund the removal of GWB

Most of their shareholders support GWB, and his policies benefit the Filthy Wealthy such as Brin and Page. Why would they fund his removal? It's an interesting commentary on the "good" and "evil" thing to consider who, Google (Brin and Page) or Microsoft (Gates et all) have given the most to organizations that benifit the public good? Hmmm...

Not really

Some of his major investors include Buffett who is very opposed to W. As to W's policies helping Brin/Page, that is VERY false. To date, the top 10 wealthiest ppl in America have come out SOLIDLY opposed to W's tax cuts and his ongoing deficits. To that end, Buffett, Gates, etc have been moving their money out of dollars and buying up other currency (mostly euros). Why? Because they believe that W's deficts on top of reagans is destroying our ability operate. I think that they are right.

Do SOME good, and people like you complain

If Google wants to "do no evil" why don't they fund the removal of [George W. Bush]?

Hey, better yet, why don't they convince the UN to send peacekeepers to Darfur? Why don't they fund alternative energy research? I'm sure they have enough money to get a fusion research lab up and running. Why don't they fight cancer?

The problem is even if they did set up a lab to do research with the intent of "fighting cancer", some asshole like you would complain they're not fighting AIDS.

Anyone who wants to fight to do good in this world only has limited resources to work with, as such, one must pick their battles. Taking on the crooked telco companies is worthy enough for me.

Re:Do SOME good, and people like you complain

Why don't they fund alternative energy research?

They do [google.org].

Re:The Google Challenge

And making Dick Cheney the president is going to help us how?

Mod Parent Up

gnaa makes slashdot tolerable

And no I wont post anonymously you fucktards

Much more than that

Google has spent a decade and some on one side of a very big coin. Search, ads, gmail, google maps, google docs, google this, that, everything translates into one simple thing - they have the "Where Joe wants his browser to be" for a VERY big number of Joes worldwide.

Buying up the 700MHz band will make them, in the US, own the "Where Joe is coming from". A mountain of dark fiber they've been purchasing lately will supply the infrastructure to connect side A to side B.

Together, these are worth more than the sum of their parts. Coupled, rather than Google wanting to hookup to tier-1 ISP's, it will be tier-1 ISP's who will be jumping through hoops to get closer to the wirelessgoogle plate.

They seem to be using the momentum of their products to try and catch a rather big chunk of the internet backbone and haul it right up onto their own back (just the bit that involves peoples traffic going to them). Quite admirable in its own right, if they manage to pull it off.

Rather than bean-counting and looking for a direct profit, a move like that would reposition them in an entirely different league of players, give them way more power, regulation leverage and later translate into an insanely bigger profits.

I'm eager to see if they manage to pull this off, if for the sheer ability to outsmart all of the established competition for that power. And frankly, even without them being holier than the bloody pope, I'd much rather have them have it than any other player their size.

I disagree, slightly..

Obviously wireless spectrum is going to be an end-user product. Allowing a nationwide wireless network similar to what Google paid for in the bay area recently.

But the dark fibre...

Yes, no doubt, perhaps used to connect wireless broadcasting centers to each other, but also, my speculation is that it's going to be used for television. Google is an advertising company. For the forseeable future, there is no bigger advertising medium than Television. True, the major networks upfronts were lower this year than in the past, but that's only because the rise of original content on cable networks has created more premium content for advertisers to buy into.

Google is going to need massive bandwidth to build a next-gen network for TV advertising. Perhaps even one day using the Overlay technology it's deploying on YouTube. Time shifting is here to stay. Advertising is here to stay. I suspect the latter will adapt to the former, and overlays seem a pretty likely candidate.

Who has the technology, bandwidth, ad sales teams, and capital to make it all work? .... Good question .... maybe somebody should Google it...

Re:Taking over the world...

"Evil empire #2 is really sticking it to the long standing telecommunications industry..."

I think "Chaotic Neutral Empire" might be more fitting at this point.