New Linux Desktop Environment Built on Firefox

IL-CSIXTY4 writes "'Pyro is a new kind of desktop environment for Linux built on Mozilla Firefox. Its goal is to enable true integration between the Web and modern desktop computing.' This looks like an interesting marriage of the web and the desktop. In Pyro, Web apps run in windows on the desktop, right alongside desktop apps (through compositing). Features expected in a desktop environment, like task/window selection and an Expose-like function, are written in Javascript." "

Does this mean...

...that I can write application in php+css?

Re:Does this mean...

Didn't everyone agree a long time ago that integrating IE into the OS and using it as a shell was a bad idea?

So what is it that makes this any different?

slashdotted after the first comment

Already slashdotted after the first comment, so ... this is what the future web-desktop will be like huh?

Re:slashdotted after the first comment

Like they always say, "Those who don't learn Windows are doomed to repeat it."

I think that's how that goes right?

Re:slashdotted after the first comment

Already slashdotted after the first comment, so ... this is what the future web-desktop will be like huh?

Not if the server is within the intranet. Here's the text from the site:

What is Pyro?

Flickr Add-on

Exposé-alike

Window Picker

Pyro is a new kind of desktop environment for Linux built on Mozilla Firefox. Its goal is to enable true integration between the Web and modern desktop computing.

By merging the Web with the desktop, Pyro offers the first big step toward a new future for the Web and the applications built for it.

In Pyro, Web content is no longer confined to the browser's window. Instead, trusted Web sites and extensions are given access to the full range of interactivity and control enjoyed by native applications today.

Imagine...
Rich Web pages running side-by-side with native applications
Single programming environment for the whole desktop
Desktop-wide mashups, killer Web integration
Novel desktop effects

Pyro enables a desktop that tracks the latest in Web technology, and helps mold the future of the integrated Web.
[edit]
NEWS

From Ars Technica

July, 20 2007:
Pyro project offers Firefox-based desktop environment on Ars Technica, by Ryan Paul.
Pyro delivers Web apps to the Linux desktop on DesktopLinux.com.

Check out the slides!

July, 18 2007:
Pyro Announced during GUADEC '07 Conference Keynote Speech.
[edit]
How does Pyro work?

Pyro works fundamentally by drawing your entire computer screen as a Web Page, all from within Firefox. Indeed, at the core Pyro is simply a window manager which renders Web content alongside existing native applications.

By leveraging the trusted Firefox Add-On system, all the capabilities of dynamic HTML, JavaScript, CSS, SVG, and Adobe Flash are available to enable incredible applications, extensions and themes.

Bringing all these Web technologies together with the newest generation of Linux display technology, called window compositing, allows Pyro to integrate native applications as an intrinsic part of the overall Web Desktop, seamlessly merging the two.

IE4 Anyone?

Didn't we learn our lesson with Active Desktop? This is one of the reasons I use Firefox instead of IE. It's not so tied into the OS that when it crashes, it's taking down other apps as well.

Re:IE4 Anyone?

Didn't we learn our lesson with Active Desktop?

...and why would anyone want this anyway? The only real reason MS did this sort of thing was to support their legal argument that IE was a necessary and integral part of the OS. This is just as bad as the awful practice of embedding other applications in the browser by default instead of launching the appropriate applications externally (konqueror for example). Why does everyone want to copy all the worst ideas MS has had for browser functionality?

Re:IE4 Anyone?

Think of it like this... HTML is the idiots way out of writing GUI code

If only...

the apps include a very simple word processor and a spreadsheet that could work from a server hosted within the company intranet... this would be a very useful project indeed. Basic features would do - no need for all that fancy schmancy stuff.

Somehow familliar

This strangely reminds me of Microsofts Desktop in Windows 95/98 and the resulting law suits. I am no programmer, but wouldn't the performance of a desktop system written to support java script etc. be lower than that of a regular written desktop? So, in the worst case it would slow down the whole system.

Re:Somehow familliar

This strangely reminds me of Microsofts Desktop in Windows 95/98 and the resulting law suits. I am no programmer, but wouldn't the performance of a desktop system written to support java script etc. be lower than that of a regular written desktop? So, in the worst case it would slow down the whole system.

Regarding speed, I don't think it's an issue.

First, all computers wait at the same speed, and presumably the point here is to accomplish something heavily dependent on the network. Even the best network (in my experience) winds up being the limiting factor.

Second, the applications are not likely to depend on the speed of the processor for much, in the user's experience. Now obviously, if we're using bloated software like Word to accomplish what notepad could do, we'll feel the hit. On the other hand, I'm consistently frustrated by the sloth of OO apps. So if FIrefox offers an equally slow solution that is better integrated, I say it's a winner.

Of course, I haven't RTFA, as it is FSD'ed.

First read

right alongside desktop apps (through compositing).

At first I thought that said through composting. Guess you'd have to call that organic computing.

On a serious note....Instead, trusted Web sites and extensions are given access to the full range of interactivity and control enjoyed by native applications today.

The "trust" issue would loom very large in that statement. Provides some interesting possibilities all the same.

bad idea

Didn't we decide this was a bad idea when MS did it? They might not have done it as completely as pyro, but that just sounds like a bad idea.

I can't of course RTFA at the moment due to the flames rolling out of the webserver it is on.

Haven't we done this before?

Wasn't this done with MS in Windows 98, the Active Desktop? See how well that worked? Why would anyone want this?

Re:Haven't we done this before?

On this interpretation, we should never use artificial intelligence because of Clippy.

Re:Haven't we done this before?

Wasn't this done with MS in Windows 98, the Active Desktop? See how well that worked? Why would anyone want this?

That was done in 1998. It was early Web 1.0, and people didn't dig web stuff so much. But now, it's different. There are plenty of uses for a web based desktop, and to quote their site:

Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, [e-mail] and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

I think Microsoft is totally shaking in their boots at the thought of Pyro: just consider, a connected, integrated, web desktop. It's just like .NET 3.0 except it's much slower, much less secure and runs on JavaScript. Complete winner!

Symphony OS Anyone?

This guy is probably doing something similar. Symphony OS.

http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/sc reenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=Symphony %20OS%202006-12%20Beta [thecodingstudio.com]

See also ByzantineOS (Mozilla Desktop)

This idea has been around for a little while. See the ByzantineOS [sourceforge.net] has had releases on Distrowatch since 2003 [distrowatch.com].

It was a pretty cool idea. Basically the whole desktop is a web browser and you write apps as XUL extensions. There is possibly a future in this as corporate and institutional thin client platforms to run custom apps.

Bad naming.

This is already the third project called pyro.
"Python Remote Objects" http://pyro.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
and "Python Robotics" http://pyrorobotics.org/ [pyrorobotics.org]
and possibly there are even more.

Lack of network: Failure?

In order to head off claims that this environment would be useless if network connections were down, I should point out, that in modern business and private settings, having no network is almost as bad. In other words, being dependent on the network is probably not a liability.

Google Cache

Here's the Google Cache:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:6EoAZGSE90IJ:p yrodesktop.org/+http://pyrodesktop.org&hl=en&ct=cl nk&cd=1&gl=us [72.14.253.104]

Coral got it

Yay for coral! [nyud.net]

Internet Explorer

Huh? What's this? For Linux users who wish they were running Windows?

This site has ceased to be!

It's not pinin'! It's passed on! This website is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't posten it on slashdot, it wouldn't be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the twig! Its kicked the bucket,shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-WEBSITE!!

mmm

Didn't Microsoft try this with XP and IE??

Look what happened to them..

I will believe it when I see it.

Heh.

So, Active Desktop is making a comeback, is it?

Desktop environment built on bugs?

Until Firefox can solve some of the many, many bugs still present in it's product, I think that this entire discussion is silly.

/. effect

Obviously their webserver is running as a web app from within Firefox, or else it would be able to serve more than 5 simultaneous clients at once.

GNOME - got a toolkit make a destop from it.

Ohh - please no. We had this allready. No, not Active Desktop. I mean GNOME. Got a tookkit for a graphic processor (GIMP) and then think: Why not make hole desktop from it. Stupid idea - just because it works for a graphic processor or bowser it does not mean it will scale up to desktop environemnt. Even after years GNOME is not as stable as KDE. Don't believe me? How about:

Unable to start the settings manager 'gnome-settings-daemon'.
Without the GNOME settings manager running, some preferences may not take effect. This could indicate a problem with Bonobo, or a non-GNOME (e.g. KDE) settings manager may already be active and conflicting with the GNOME settings manager.

There is a damm lot more to a desktop environment then pretty looks. It look easy at the beginning and sounds like a great idea but becomes quite complex over time. And in the end you have a mess like GNOME. And it is a mess: gtk, cairo, pango, bonobo and no common line.

Martin

Hmm...

This just sounds like its follwing Microsoft's trend of adding even more layers of middleware to suck down all our CPU time and resources just to do the simplest of tasks.

Version stabilty

Got another one: I a desktop evironment you can's just declare plugin "incompatible" from one version to the next - the way firefox does not. A desktop evironment just jsut have to keep compatible with your past.

This is the most stupid idea I heart this year!

Martin

User interactivity?

Given that Firefox already has issues with ignoring user input at various times, I guess Pyro will also bring that ability to ignore the user to the Linux desktop, as it has existed in Windows since the beginning?

Great, I'll go buy another 2G RAM

I thought about something like this recently, and decided against it, because Firefox is very memory-inefficient, and seems to (I may be wrong) leak more than Harry Potter spoilers. So while it sounds interesting, I wonder if I could really run it, in practice, without having to log out every day or so to release memory.

Linux projects bundling or supporting update?

Are any projects going to bundle or supporting download of pyro desktop? I wait until I here one does that way it will run fine with the project. Anyone who has been using python had to know this was coming from other similar type current projects.
MS can only keep program developers out of work for so long.

great

Wonderful, now my desktop can be a memory eating hog that hasn't worked right sine v. 0.8 AND crash all the time. Awesome.

a new wave

In Pyro, Web apps run in windows on the desktop, right alongside desktop apps

revolutionary! Watch out MS! :/

I don't know about anyone else, But the main reason i use FF is because i don't want my browser to be an integral part of the OS.

They always say, A feature that isn't a solution to a problem, is a problem in it's self.

finally

Pyros for porn

Use the hammer!

Use the hammer! When you need to insert a screw use a hammer to bash it in! When you need to saw some wood, use a hammer to break it apart! When you need a pair of tweezers to carefully manipulate a tiny electronic part, use a hammer to bash it into smithereens!

When you're so tunnel blind that all you can see is the web, then everything starts looking like a web page.

Ridiculous!

We already have emacs, why would anyone switch from that?

Expose in Javascript? Damn!

Am I the only one to be mightily impressed at the idea of implementing Expose in javascript??

I haven't looked yet at how well they accomplished this, but damn, I love the idea of having a common Expose-like function available to me on all the modern OS's I am forced to use daily.

If it's GPL'ed I will check it out.

great

A combination of the speed and stability of Firefox with the app and hardware support of Linux.

uh oh

we've seen this before in windows 98, and many people where against it.
Microsoft had to remove this GUI or change so that win98 could also run with other web brouwsers...
Just wondering how it will end up in linux

Great idea. Basically, like google-gears?

http://gears.google.com/ [google.com]

BTW: I don't know why so many posters are saying that msft tried to do this in 1998, or whatever. Msft has never had anything like this. Pyro would not make FF and integrated part of the desktop. And msft is always 100% proprietary. With msft it's all about vendor-lock-in, Pyro would do just the opposite.

I can see a lot of advantages to browser-based apps. The apps can run on any platform. The apps can be server or client based. The apps can run locally, or a local intranet server, or a remote internet server.

Tried It

Wow, lots of talk, but who's tried it? I just ran it on a test machine - an older laptop that was humming along running Ubuntu Feisty. The machine was a tad slow before running it, but it has crawled nearly to a halt upon trying out pyro. My older (read: slow) hardware may exaggerate the slowdown, but it is ridiculous. Also, my desktop is showing at about 100x its normal size, which means that I am lucky to see one of my launchers. Thought (regardless of the security problems) that I would give this a shot, but my short test has come to an end. Next time I see some FUD about this, I'll look the other way.

Re:Why this is cool

It's more about that they're using popular languages that people know (HTML, CSS, Javascript) to do things that traditionally were done by unpopular languages (C, Python, etc.)

Now before you flame me about calling those languages unpopular all I mean is that not as many programmers know them

Um, but surely people who know HTML and CSS but not a conventional programming language like C or Python are not programmers - they are web site developers. (Now, before you flame me, I'm not saying that they're inferior, I'm just saying they're different.)

The people who write the code that drives web apps are programmers, but they all know languages like Ruby, PHP, Java, and so forth. That's what they use to write web apps in the first place. You can't use AJAX if there's no server for you to send your AJAX requests to, and the code running on that server is not written in HTML. It could theoretically be written in Javascript, of course, but that's pretty rare, if it happens at all. Why? Probably because more programmers know languages like PHP and Python than know Javascript...

Basically, I do not believe there is any significant number of people who are capable of using Javascript to do more than copy and paste trivial scripts, but do not know any other programming language. Yes, Javascript can be used to write complex applications; but my point is that the people who are capable of doing that are also capable of using conventional tools for the same purpose, so while this project might indeed enable some interesting new applications, it is unlikely that there will be many people capable of developing with it who would not be equally capable of developing without it.

not as many programmers know them?

To really "know" your favorite languages (HTML, CSS, Javascript) is quite rare. Lots of us can get some minor thing half-way working on one browser. Writing solid code is not at all a trivial task; very few people can manage. Not even Google always gets it right.

While I've seen some very buggy and unportable C code, fixing one platform doesn't tend to break all the others as is the case with the web stuff.

Re:Why this is cool

It's more about that they're using popular languages that people know (HTML, CSS, Javascript) to do things that traditionally were done by unpopular languages (C, Python, etc.)

Now before you flame me about calling those languages unpopular all I mean is that not as many programmers know them, I don't mean to insult anyones language.

The fact that you called C and "unpopular language", no matter what you meant by it, completely invalidates any opinion you may have on any programming related topic.

Re:Cool

No, I think that a good desktop environment needs to be multi-threaded. Heck, single-threaded apps are bad enough.

(I also replied to this because of my signature)