Vista to Allow "One Significant" Hardware Upgrade

fiorenza writes "Ars Technica spoke with Microsoft concerning the controversial changes in Windows Vista's licensing, and they have learned that Vista will permit one 'significant' hardware change before requiring users to either appeal to Microsoft support or purchase another license. Automatic re-activation online will fail after one use. Microsoft is using a new algorithm to monitor hardware changes and enforce licensing compliance, and the company says that it is more forgiving now than it was with Windows XP."

Re:New Hardware Found.....

    As a small-business owner who spends all day just configuring/fixing/testing/developing/working, I can tell you right now.....This would pound the last nail into the coffin for using MS products for me. MS obviously doesn't care about people that have to make things WORK and have little time to do so. After I have spend a few hundred hours tweaking a mail server that will have to deliver 100,000 messages per day, or a web farm that has to work FLAWLESSLY and serve hundreds of millions of hits per month, this one thing that I would not want to have to deal with, especially when I have to add/change a network interface to accomodate a SAN development or some other change where we don't have time to worry about such nonsensical shit as "Will the OS allow us to do this"

  Screw that. My shop will stay Linux anyway, but that is just BS!
  - Eric

Re:New Hardware Found.....

But you infer that he is alone in his decision.

There are a lot of huge business who buy thousands of bulk licenses, and they are MS' favorite customers.

But worldwide, there are probably millions of small businesses who are subject to the same decision; that will impact MS VERY significantly.

This reminds me of a decade ago when people used AOL instead of local dial-up because "AOL has 8 million customers... your local ISP has about 2000... clearly, they're America's favorite choice" but neglect that adding up the many local dial-up ISPs everywhere constitutes tens of millions of customers.

MS won't change their mind because this one guy is switching his little business to Linux. But when thousands of his competitors, parteners and peers do, they'll start thinking about it.

I don't see why you can't tell Windows "Hey, I'm going to switch hardware now, please deactivate my old license on this (point to HD and folder) installation and switch it to this new hard drive/computer/set of hardware". If Windows phoned home periodically to check its authenticity, like it does when you update it, MS might have to upgrade their WGA servers & whatnot, but it would prevent all this aggrevation. If the deactivated license tries to update (or just phone home on schedule), it locks them out and directs them to MS support.

I feel fucked because people pirate Windows all the time, get to play all their games & whatnot (the only reason I have Windows, plus a few full feature drivers that aren't there under Linux) and know how not to get screwed by malware, but I actually paid for it against my will because it was the right thing to do, and yet I'm worried sick about what happens if my HD dies, or I want to move my install to another disk or something. You can call them once or twice, but if you do it all the time, they get suspicious don't they? I don't want to be flagged as a (potential) pirate. I'm used to reinstalling Windows a couple of times a year (albeit less often with XP), and I'm fine with that.

They sure aren't working very hard to come up with an adequate solution to their problem... I may not be their favorite customer, but I still paid like $150 for an OEM XP Pro, and I feel like what they're doing isn't ethical. That should be reason enough to find a better solution. Yeah I know, nothing's perfect and they don't have to.

I salute MS with my long finger.

Re:New Hardware Found.....

That isn't as far-fetched as it sounds.

Last week, our phone guy decided to reinstall the OS on our main voice mail server. Since it was running a "lowly" copy of Windows 2000 Pro, he decided that it needed a "server-grade" OS, and bought Microsoft Windows 2003 Server for Small Businesses. He installed in near the end of the week, and then took time off to put a new roof on his house.

Well, this morning, the machine in question shut itself off. I turned it on, it shut itself off again in a couple of hours. I looked in event log, and found that the machine was turning itself off because we violated the EULA by not setting it up as a domain controller.

Yep. Just because we didn't need to authenticate users, the machine keeps shutting itself off. Isn't that user-friendly?

no problem

...your telephone guy left you stranded, so the least you can do is *return the favor*. Go over to his house, stop down the block and check it out. If he is up on the roof, quick drive over and steal the ladder, then drive off laughing maniacally.

Re:New Hardware Found.....

MS has this ridiculous system service called "SBSCore" that exists only to turn off the computer every hour if you aren't running as a DC. Install SysInternals' Process Explorer, suspend/pause sbscrexe, go into the registry to set the service to disabled, then remove all read permissions for every account from the actual file. The file is in \windows\system32\sbscrexe.exe. Then you can terminate the process. Don't delete the file, though, that really got Windows upset when I tried that.

Reg key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\SBCore

In regedit, right click, give Administrators permission to the key and all child nodes. Then change the Start DWORD that will appear undernearth that to 4.

Re:New Hardware Found.....

From now on, everyone who complains that editing Unix config files is too hard will be directed to this post. Thank you.

So basically

MS is looking to hurt the pc enthusiasts who for all intensive purposes helped them create such a vast "empire"?

aside from the various "grey" hacks and cracks that *WILL* come out of this - this is a very poor choice for MS imo.

Re:So basically

well, it's a doggy dog world out there!

Actually

You can say it was a mac-mac scenario ;-)

Re:So basically

MS is looking to hurt the pc enthusiasts who ... helped them create such a vast "empire"?

Sorry to disappoint, but the hobbyists are now decades removed from the empire builders. The hobbyists' desires no longer add value to the PC. The true empire builders are now the businesses who order 10,000 Dell PCs and the 10,000 Windows licenses to go with them. If you want to have an impact on the future direction of Windows, go work for one of the Fortune 500 companies and bend the ear of one of the resident Microsoft reps. Like any business, they only listen when it's money talking.

By the way, Microsoft loves the big orders. They make boatloads of money with no expense. The nice thing about business customers is those 10,000 people already have their own support structure, and only a handful of headquarters people are authorized to call MS and bitch about problems. Microsoft can afford to spend a bit of money helping them, (making them look like they have gold-plated service,) and yet doesn't have to answer to the 9,995 idiots who would otherwise be punching the f'ing monkey and installing spyware.

Re:So basically

MS is looking to hurt the pc enthusiasts who for all intensive purposes helped them create such a vast "empire"?

Clippy:
"It looks like you're fucking up the english language!!11oneoneone
Did you mean:
a) Intents and purposes
b) intensive porpoises
c) insensitive poopy-faces?

If it looks like a sale, it is a sale, right?

When, oh when, will we be able to use what we paid for for what we want, within the limits of the law, without asking permission. Sheesh.

i'll give you a hint

When, oh when, will we be able to use what we paid for for what we want, within the limits of the law, without asking permission.

the phrase "0-day" doesn't exist for nothing.

Re:If it looks like a sale, it is a sale, right?

When we stop buying products that limit the ways in which we can use them.

Of course...

that all depends on how they choose to define 'significant'. Gamers who regularly upgrade their box are going to be unhappy at any rate; if a video card is considered 'significant', I can see storm clouds blowing. Of course, Microsoft won't care - they've got their money, and with the example of Halo 2, they can count on those purchases of Vista as given for the hardcore.

Re:Virtualization

Actually, I formulated a theory that the reason Microsoft included the "no VM" clause was to slow the spread of Linux. An acquaintance of mine recently asked for help with getting Office to work on his Linux machine (OOo wasn't rendering some old but important documents properly). After several attempts with wine, we finally used win4lin, which is just QEMU in a nicer shell. He has a valid XP license, and that worked just fine for him. This type of thing would be illegal in Vista.

Of course, Microsoft is pushing hard. Soon, they will push too hard, and mass migration away from them wills start to occur (I know, I know, this has been said since 1992...).

Re:Cars

> Also, have you heard about the houses you can buy? You can only renovate them or add on to them one time.
> What?!? Doesn't make sense? That's because when you buy something you should be able to do what you want with it.

Sorry dude, the infection has already spread. Go buy a house, cash money. Think you own it? Only if you bought a chunk of land in a very red state far away from any town.... of course most places like that are subject to being declared a wetland, wildlife preserve or national park with no prior warning.

That house you think you bought was probably built by a developer in a major development project. They retained first dibs on it, selling you limited 'rights'. And if you will notice you agreed to annual fees to a 'homeowners association' that can and will tell you exactly what sort of renovations you can and can't do, what vehicles you can park, etc. Many even regulate against you erecting a TV antenna.

And if that isn't enough, if your home is inside a city you may only use it for non-commercial purposes. And regardless of whether you live in a city/town, don't forget you get the 'right' to pay and pay property taxes to find any and all crazy schemes the government can invent.

So yes, shrink wrap EULAs are horrible, but only because you can't see em until you pay, but we already bent over and surrendered the idea of property rights a century ago.

Re:Cars

Relevant, applicable and correct legal knowledge on slashdot! HE'S A WITCH!!!! BURN HIM!!! HE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!!!...


...
I got better.
-br

Shoot themselves in the foot.

So now the only reasonable option for the OS you purchased after you do something common like toss in a new video card, is to go out and get a pirate version? Well whatever, if MS wants to drive more people towards using superior pirated products, so be it. This seems to be part of a larger industry trend of artificially limiting products when there are uncrippled products out there if people look around, which just makes people want to look around. These sorts of tactics are going to bloat the pirate population, pass the rum me-hearty, y'aarrrrrrr.

Not exactly news

This is really funny but not really news knowing MS.

See this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/29/microsoft_ vista_eula_analysis/ [theregister.co.uk]

and this: http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2006/10/24/045 6/5625 [gripe2ed.com]

and this: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=158 [zdnet.com]

MS is doing their best to kill Vista when/where they can. I wonder if they have OS/2'itis.

My Windows activation experience

I purchased one copy of Windows XP Professional a long time ago, and since then I have installed it on at least 5 machines of mine or family.

I did upgrade my computer at one point, and the activation failed, so I called Windows support. I was quickly connected to some outsourced support technician who asked me the CD key of my XP CD, as well as the serial number and release (I think?) number. After giving him this info, he gave me a new CD key, which I assumed to be one shot only, like the previous one I had.

I have since learned that this is apparently a get-out-of-jail-free CD key, because I am able to install the same CD onto any machine with any hardware configuration and always pass Windows activation. And if Vista will be more lenient than XP was, then heck, I'm more than happy!

I need to be "forgiven" to upgrade?

"... the company says that it is more forgiving now than it was with Windows XP."

It's uncomfortable to be in the situation that when I want to upgrade my computer, I need to be "forgiven".

--
The best of the Bush comedy videos [futurepower.org]

This really might not be THAT much of a problem...

...if it wasn't for the fact that WINDOWS MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO INSTALL NEW HARDWARE IN ONE TRY.

The biggest benefit of a PC over buying something like a Mac was specifically upgrades. The ability to purchase a new video card for a relatively low price when games start requiring more than you can handle, etc. So effectively, this makes the PC lose its greatest benefit. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Fuck you, Microsoft. Some of the other stuff that was new in their license kinda bothered me a bit, but it didn't really affect me much. But I'm a casual gamer, and this makes it impossible.

Re:This really might not be THAT much of a problem

I didnt read the article, but the little bits above says that the algorythm is more forgiving than XP. in XP you can change almost everything and it doesn't notice... You think changing your videocard will trigger anything in Vista?

I am altering the deal...

...pray I don't alter it any further.

That second upgrade

If it's true that you need to purchase a new license after one significant upgrade, I suspect that for many, something like this will be their
second upgrade. [apple.com]

Not to mention

requiring all benchmarking to follow Microsoft's rules [theregister.com]. And not allowing virtualization for it's home versions.

windows activation

Windows activation is a joke anyway. You can keep using the same cdkey, you just have to call their 800 number. It's been awhile since I've done it, but they ask you a stupid question like "is this copy of windows installed on any other computers". I think once they asked me why I was reinstalling and I stated "reformat because of a virus". Let them argue that. If they complain you've called too much complain that their OS is too virus prone and keeps making you reformat. I don't know which is easier to do, get the anti-activation crack or call the 800 number.

Long Live Windows 2000, I guess

It looks like forced activation and DRM is the wave of the future. MS gained their monopoly by creating an operating system (DOS and Windows up and including 2000) that can be ran on any old PC. MS used to not care about charging you for another license of Windows when you upgraded your PC multiple times; they figured that it was great that you were using Windows instead of OS/2, NEXTSTEP, DR-DOS, or the other alternatives at the time. Since they gained 95% market share, they repay you by implementing restrictive activation schemes that get worse with each release of Windows.

I say, no thanks. Me and thousands of other people will still hold on to our Windows 2000 disks. Even though I don't use Windows anymore (too bad Boot Camp for Mac doesn't support Windows 2000), I know plenty of people who haven't gone to XP because of this. Activation negatively inconviences (and sometimes even locks out) those who legally buy their software (no activation scheme is perfect); those who illegally obtain their software can just download a cracked version or a corporate version of it. I don't want treated as a pirate as a customer. But that is how MS wants to treat us. Oh well. I'm not buying any new versions of Windows or Office for this Mac; I'm sticking to Windows 2000 and Office 2000.

Viva Windows 2000!

How many upgrades does it take..

Before Microsoft has spent more money supporting a licenced customer than thay gained from the sale?

New algorithm

Microsoft's new algorithm:

if ($windows_version = 'vista')
      {
      $pirated = true;
} else
      {
      $pirated = true;
}

No Biggie

I think i've re-activated my copy of XP about 5 times already - mostly because of new hardware. You call a free-phone number and they just ask you "how many computers have you installed it on?". If you're dumb enough to not say anything over 3, they'll give you a new key.

It's not like the big Billy G has tapped into the line with a lie detector ready to call in a SWAT team or anything. Well, if he was, it was very convincing - anything's possible I suppose.

This is a real non-issue

For Windows XP (pre SP1) a "significant hardware" change required an immediate reactivation. With the introduction of SP1, it stayed the same, except you were given a 3 day grace period to activate. Changes made to GPU, NIC, RAM, CPU, IDE, SCSI, HDD, or CD/DVD would result in a change in the hardware hash that is submitted to Microsoft, but only on the home edition of windows or on a professional edition that does not have a corporate volume license key. The corporate license for XP is not affected by hardware changes at all.
Allowing one significant change for anyone is in fact more lenient than they were previously, as long as they continue to allow unlimited hardware changes for corporate users. For them to do otherwise would be crazy.

"The change of a single component multiple times (e.g. from video adapter A to video adapter B to video adapter C) is treated as a single change." - Microsoft [microsoft.com]

As long as the above still holds true, you could update your video card multiple times and it would still only register as that one significant change. If however, you also upgraded your soundcard it would register as a second change and would require reactivation.

"Approximately 2 percent of activation requests are due to hardware changes or other reactivations." - Microsoft [microsoft.com]

I'd wager that most people who are the kind of folks to upgrade their hardware also have corporate licensed editions of windows or are smart enough to know how to reload XP Pro or at least smart enough to pick up a phone and call Microsoft.

Just so I'm clear

If I read the EULA correctly, I only have the ability to install Vista twice? According to MS, any significant change would require activation? Significant meaning a new video or a new hard drive. Screw that. I've had at least 4 or 5 hardware failures in my machine since I installed XP. 2 HD failures (requiring full reinstalls), 2 MB failures, 1 video card failure. And that's not counting the number of times I had to reinstall XP just because it got bloated (I'm not the only user on my machine). Is it me or does it seem like MS wants me to "rent" their software?

Tagging for this story

Anyone else notice the tags that are on this story?

assholes, vista, microsoft, windows, drm (tagging beta)

.... Oh Slashdot, I <3 you.

Acts of God?

A year ago my PC got hosed by a lightning strike. I had to replace everything except the sound card.

Under this act of God, beyond my control, M$ would have required me to call and beg for a new key.

No thanks. It was overwhelming enough to purchase a tower, reinstall the OS and the apps, and recover from backups. And that was during a job hunt so the PC was critical to my career during a very stressful period. The last thing I needed is to deal with re-activating the OS.

My upgrade path after W2K will be Mac. I have no desire to jump through activation hoops. Brilliant M$, you've just reduced your monopoly on the PC OS market...!

Recent experience

I was more than a little concerned that I would run into a license validation issue recently.

The motherboard in my son's PC went tits up, so he ordered an ASUS barebones box and an Athlon 64 CPU from NewEgg. We took everything else from his old eMachine chassis. (hey, it was a gift from his uncle)

Anyway, we booted from an original XP CD we've owned for years. The PC it was originally installed on has long since been salvaged for parts and is no more. We installed the OS, an SP2 CD I keep handy, then connected to the net to get another 68 updates and such. Windows Update did it's "Genuine Advantage" update and....validated the XP license with no problem.

I was prepared to browbeat an MS employee into realizing the original PC the license was installed on was like the snows of yesteryear, but it a non-event.

The box has been running for 2 weeks with no issues. It's been through at least one Windows Update pass since then with no alarms or MS Gestapo banging on the door, black helicopters circling, etc.

I would think a completely new system build (the eMachine came with a restore CD that only works on an eMachine) would have tripped an alarm for MS but that's apparently not the case.

Hopefully, Vista will be as well designed! LOL.