Gaps in Amazon's Response as Virus Spreads To More Than 50 Warehouses (nytimes.com) 54
Shifting sick-leave policy and communication issues are causing employees to assert themselves after they stayed on the job. From a report: As millions of Americans heed government orders to hunker down, ordering food and medicines and books and puzzle boards for home delivery, many of Amazon's 400,000 warehouse workers have stayed on the job, fulfilling the crushing demands of a country suddenly working and learning from home. Orders for Amazon groceries, for example, have been as much as 50 times higher than normal, according to a person with direct knowledge of the business. The challenge is keeping enough people on the job to fill those orders, according to more than 30 Amazon warehouse workers and current and former corporate employees who spoke with The New York Times. For all of its high-tech sophistication, Amazon's vast e-commerce business is dependent on an army of workers operating in warehouses they now fear are contaminated with the coronavirus.
[...] Amazon's response to the pandemic has differed from warehouse to warehouse. Over the years, that sort of autonomy has allowed Amazon to nimbly adjust to local market conditions. Now it is leading to distrust, as workers see some facilities close for cleaning while others remain open. Since the first worker in the Queens facility learned on March 18 that he had tested positive, the company has learned of cases in more than 50 other facilities, out of the more than 500 it operates across the country. In recent weeks, Amazon has raised wages and added quarantine leave, and it is offering overtime at double pay. It said it had tripled its janitorial staff. And it has added space between many workstations. But in private groups, conversations with their managers and public protests, some workers have expressed alarm about their safety.
[...] Amazon's response to the pandemic has differed from warehouse to warehouse. Over the years, that sort of autonomy has allowed Amazon to nimbly adjust to local market conditions. Now it is leading to distrust, as workers see some facilities close for cleaning while others remain open. Since the first worker in the Queens facility learned on March 18 that he had tested positive, the company has learned of cases in more than 50 other facilities, out of the more than 500 it operates across the country. In recent weeks, Amazon has raised wages and added quarantine leave, and it is offering overtime at double pay. It said it had tripled its janitorial staff. And it has added space between many workstations. But in private groups, conversations with their managers and public protests, some workers have expressed alarm about their safety.
Let me guess (Score:5, Informative)
It won't be enough no matter what they do.
What if they pulled out some of those tesla flamethrowers and started flaming down the infected. Kinda like 'The Thing.'
Workers at hospitals and grocery stores are risking infection too, but some things have to work. Infection really isn't a case of if, but rather when. All you can do is minimize the odds and quarantine.
I suspect Amazon employees are going to be the most protected in the crashing economy.
Re:Let me guess (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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I don't recall any models that suggested everyone would definitely get it before a vaccine can be made.
You think keeping the entire world on "lockdown" for 18 months is workable?
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Is allowing 2% of the population to die workable? That percentage could go up substantially if lock downs were ended and the virus was allowed to spread at a rate that hospitals couldn't deal with. 2% in the US equates to 6.6 million people.
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Is allowing 2% of the population to die workable?
If only it were that simple :(
If we care about human lives then we also need to care about the economy. As the shut-downs continue, we are going to see rises in poverty which will in turn see rises in crime and other social problems. Poverty has also been linked to lower overall health and well-being. Stress levels rise, as does substance abuse and domestic violence. Rates of mental illness and suicide will increase. We saw this during the great depression.
Even those who are more financially able to weather
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You're not going to see 6.6 million people commit suicide or die from poverty in the space of a year or two so that entire hypothesis simply doesn't hold water.
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You think keeping the entire world on "lockdown" for 18 months is workable?
20% of the population hospitalized isn't workable either. We either make this work, or we fail. The cost is in human lives and in their contribution to the economy. Never working again is worse than not working for 18 months. I've gone without working for 9 months before, it sucked but it wasn't like death at all.
While we have two vaccines in trial, that doesn't mean we do nothing while we wait. As time goes on, we'll develop more treatments that improve outcomes. If enough people have recovered we can star
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I don't recall any models that suggested everyone would definitely get it before a vaccine can be made.
Not everyone who is exposed will get it. Even in the 1918 flu, the majority of people were naturally immune. But yes, the overwhelming majority will be _exposed_ to it in the next few months, long before there's a vaccine. Unless you intend to retreat to your bunker and live off your stored food, that includes you.
Also, much of your advice is dubious bordering on wrong. With an airborne illness, the last thing you want is HVAC systems that recycle and broadly spread the air the last person just coughed in t
Re:Let me guess (Score:4, Informative)
Think about it: as soon as restrictions lift if even one person is still contagious we'll have patient-0 all over again
Except this time, we'll have better tests, we'll have masks, we'll all be washing our hands, and we'll be more careful about large gatherings. A lot of us will still be working from home. Basically we need to find the right combination of mitigation to slow the spread of the virus while still letting us out to have fun.
There's a good chart on page 12 of this paper [imperial.ac.uk]. As the number of cases of COVID drops, we reduce the lockdown, then return to the lockdown as they increase. We do that until the vaccine arrives in 18 months.
Unless we get the transmission ratio below 1.0 (Score:4, Insightful)
If, on average, each person who has it passes it along to two others, the number of infections will double every couple of weeks. That's the scary exponential growth.
If each person who gets it passes it to one other, the number of infected people will stay the same.
On the other hand - if, through a combination of many different approaches, we get the ratio down to each infected person passing it to 0.5 people, on average, then the number cases keeps being cut in half. 9,600 cases becomes 4,800 becomes 2,400 becomes 1,200, then 600, 300, 150, 75, 38, 19, 8, 4, 2, 1, 0. Zero cases. We see that several times per year with various malware - exponential growth until enough defenses are deployed to reduce the rate of sprrad below 1.0, then the number of infections DROPS is exponentially. That exponential function works both ways.
Very widespread testing could mean that many of the infected people are identified and they don't unknowingly pass it to others. Even if the anti-virals being tested, such as those already used to prevent malaria, don't work all that well a period of preventative medication would help get the rate down. Similarly a bad vaccine, one that's only 50% effective or even only 25% effective. Most viruses in this family are seasonal; covid 19 may be as well.
As soon as we have a combination of measures which get the rate below 1.0, get it where for every 1,000 people currently infected they infect less than 1,000 more, we're on the path to essentially eliminating it. Then long term we'll need widespread testing, a vaccine, or something to catch any smoldering cases before it can flare into an epidemic again.
A vaccine within 18 months or so is a reasonable likelihood. (Remembering the vaccine doesn't need to be 100% effective, only effective enough to have the transmission ratio less than 1.0). If we can get the ratio below 1.0 until we have a preventative, we're good - that would prevent most people from ever being infected.
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Well there is already a vaccine which provides enough antibodies for up to a year. The question is will it be fast tracked, but it won't be 18 months.
Re:Unless we get the transmission ratio below 1.0 (Score:5, Informative)
Coronavirus seems to be way, way more contagious than that. A month ago, the tech industry started having people work from home in the Bay Area, and we have just (within the last week) gotten down to doubling each week. For example in Santa Clara, for which I've been keeping a daily spreadsheet in which one row shows the ratio of each day's numbers compared with the previous week:
Mar. 9: 4.777777778
Mar. 10: 4.090909091
Mar. 11: 3.428571429
Mar. 12: 2.4
Mar. 13: 3.291666667
Mar. 14: 2.84375
Mar. 15: 3.081081081
Mar. 16: 3.209302326 - First day of lockdown
Mar. 17: 3.444444444
Mar. 18: 3.645833333
Mar. 19: 3.9375
Mar. 20: 2.481012658
Mar. 21: 2.89010989
Mar. 22: 2.649122807
Mar. 23: 2.326086957
Mar. 24: 2.419354839
Mar. 25: 2.622857143
Mar. 26: 2.867724868
Mar. 27: 2.928571429
Mar. 28: 2.247148289
Mar. 29: 2.139072848
Mar. 30: 2.641744548
Mar. 31: 2.373333333
Apr. 1: 2.082788671
Apr. 2: 1.880073801
Apr. 3: 1.905923345
Apr. 4: 1.942470389
Apr. 5: 1.868421053
Apr. 6: 1.443396226
If the next couple of days go as well as today, then we'll probably be doubling only every two weeks. :-/
Interesting. And it measures testing (Score:3)
Thanks for they data. Very interesting.
A huge confounding variable is the number of tests done.
Because initially only the government was allowed to develop and process the tests, and the government tests didn't work, the US had many actual cases while it had zero confirmed cases.
After the FDA gave permission for private labs to create tests (that work) and administer those tests, there has been a rush to manufacture, distribute, and eventually process tests. As production and distribution of tests has rampe
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Very true. It's also at least theoretically possible that actual cases are increasing by 10x, but that detection is bounded by the testing at 2x. After all, the testing rate has to massively increase for the number of known cases to double, because most of those cases were detected over a longer period. So it could be that the number of new cases isn't impro
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The problem is a "Total" quarantine in the U.S. is nothing close to a "Total" quarantine in China.
I needed some minor supplies so I went to the store. No way I felt safe going in. Parking lot was *full*. Problem with reduced hours I think. Few more days I'll be out of milk and cream (and those were good for 60 days). Looks like I 'll be drinking my coffee black.
At current rates- everyone in the U.S. not in isolation will be infected by the 1st week of may. We have 10x as many cases every 12 days.
The
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I needed some minor supplies so I went to the store. No way I felt safe going in. Parking lot was *full*. Problem with reduced hours I think.
Yeah, this concerns me as well. If you really want a store policy that will improve safety for workers and the public, they should reduce the number of employees at any given time, and keep stores open 24x7, ensuring that people can spread out their shopping more than they otherwise would. Reducing the number of hours that a store is open so that you can do more extensive cleaning just increases the risk for everyone. Do your cleaning a little bit at a time, while the store is open.
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Just curious, what state are you in?
I'm curious about alcohol delivery.....its very much verboten in many places.
Was this a delivery from the liquor store itself?
Beer?
Wine?
Hard liquor?
All of the above?
I ask because I"m running low too...haha
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Maybe it's just regular isopropanol for disinfecting (or home distilling)
Re:Let me guess (Score:5, Insightful)
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You are right they also have butt plugs.
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Or just give the most at-risk workers paid time off and use the remaining reduced staff to ship things that are important, leaving the other stuff to be fulfilled later. The reduced workforce will also help with social distancing in the warehouse.
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What if they pulled out some of those tesla flamethrowers and started flaming down the infected. Kinda like 'The Thing.'
Ahhh the Italian approach https://youtu.be/BziduLczPDQ?t... [youtu.be]
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The problem is that Amazon is trying to do business as normal, with just a few inconsistent tweaks. It is possible for th
Remarkable job (Score:5, Interesting)
Though this article doesn't give the infection numbers, others have and Amazon's rate has been substantially less than the population as a whole. At this point, we've crossed the 1 infection for every 1,000 Americans threshold. Amazon should have 400+ infected warehouse workers. They don't.
Whatever Amazon is teaching their employees, it is working for them.
It is also working for the rest of the country because Amazon's work is allowing millions of Americans to avoid stores and stay at home. Amazon will be a critical piece in the equation to keep coronavirus under check until a vaccine is available. We will probably loosen up on going to workplaces before then, but nobody I know plans to loosen up enough to go to stores or restaurants on a regular basis until the vaccine is available. The alternatives for going to stores and restaurants are very acceptable.
Either that or they're just toughing it out (Score:1)
Also when I worked crap jobs I was offered health insurance, but it was basically useless. It cost more to use than I could ever hope to make.
Remember, lots of folks (70-80% last I heard) have only mild symptoms. They still spread it...
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You seem to be guessing...
A cursory glance indicates that employees have health insurance as a benefit. Given they need to pay overtime to keep up with sick leave and my previous understand is yes the fulfillment centers do have full time employees. It isn't McDonalds.
Re:Either that or they're just toughing it out (Score:4, Informative)
because they don't have health insurance. Aren't a lot of their employees part time?
Temps at Amazon warehouses get insurance. Additionally, if they contract COVID on the job, they'll likely be eligible for workmen comp.
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Remember, lots of folks (70-80% last I heard) have only mild symptoms.
Pretty sure its 'no symptoms.'
We will find out that millions of us Americans got this thing in December and January. Certainly in my line of work there is pretty much zero chance that none of the ~1300 people in my union got it, yet nobody seems to have tested positive (not a single report, and we ARE in contact with each other on our union website.) The place we work shut down March 17th, and we deal face-to-face with thousands of travelers a week from NYC, LA, Boston, and even China.
Occams razor says
Re: Either that or they're just toughing it out (Score:4, Interesting)
No, that's not what the science says.
They took samples of the virus and ran its genome. They plugged in the mutation rate. They deduced its prevalence and spread in the early days. There is no way your "we had it in December" hypothesis fits the facts.
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They took samples of the virus and ran its genome. They plugged in the mutation rate. They deduced its prevalence and spread in the early days. There is no way your "we had it in December" hypothesis fits the facts.
South Korea was already battling it in December. What The Fuck Are You Talking About? Did you get your information from the WHO, who still says not to wear a mask?
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[They took samples of the virus and ran its genome. They plugged in the mutation rate. They deduced its prevalence and spread in the early days. There is no way your "we had it in December" hypothesis fits the facts.]
South Korea was already battling it in December. What The Fuck Are You Talking About? Did you get your information from the WHO, who still says not to wear a mask?
No, I don't trust the WHO. I got the data from epidemiologists in Seattle - https://www.fredhutch.org/en/n... [fredhutch.org]
It works like this. You get lots of samples of the virus. You run their genomes. You measure how they're similar and how they're different - which mutations they have in common and which they don't. From that you deduce the mutation rate, and deduce how long the virus has been circulating. For instance they determined that the Washington State infection arrived in mid-January and had been spreading f
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That's not how fast these viruses spread. The virus was released into the wild from Wuhan in the November time frame, by December Chinese doctors locally were warning about human-to-human transmission rates.
From that 4M people potentially spread the disease but the rates of transmission are relatively low and require some interaction with new victims. By the time critical numbers were reaching the US, the US had already started its limitations on travel from Wuhan.
Unlike what some people think by plugging s
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I'm just curious, and maybe it was a coincidence that a flu-like bug that caused mild bronchitis was going around in January time frame in the US, but is it *possible* that a mutated form of covid-19 got 'out' earlier? One that spread a lot faster because the symptoms were mild for everyone who caught it?
I know I caught something like that in mid-January. Not like any other cold I'd ever gotten - got it, got worse, got better, then got worse again, with the cry cough, a fever one day, and congested throat
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Oops - should be *dry* cough, not cry cough
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Amazon should have 400+ infected warehouse workers. They don't.
How do you know? In one warehouse, Amazon claimed there was only one case of infection when management knew there were at least three [newsweek.com] confirmed cases (if not seven confirmed cases). That's a big difference, one versus seven. Don't you think?
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that we shut down those warehouses, not at all. But I just don't want our very strong desire to keep Amazon going (and mine too) to actually color the data we're actually getting.
but the free market! (Score:2, Funny)
Won't the free market solve everything? Just let us all fight it out. What could possibly go wrong?
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Now we can get coronavirus by mail (Score:5, Insightful)
Prime members only!
Fix Headline (Score:1)