Microsoft Talks Daily With Your Computer 686
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft Corp. acknowledged Wednesday that it needs to better inform users that its tool for determining whether a computer is running a pirated copy of Windows also quietly checks in daily with the software maker.
The company said the undisclosed daily check is a safety measure designed to allow the tool, called Windows Genuine Advantage, to quickly shut down in case of a malfunction."
The EULA is suppose to disclose this daily call-in feature. Lauren Weinstein, who is co-founder of People for Internet Responsibility, was one of the first people to notice the daily communications to Microsoft. Report from Yahoo.com"
Minor edit (Score:4, Funny)
The EULA is suppose to
That should be 'supposed'. What happened to the 'd'?
disclosed this
Oh, there it is.
remote deauthorization (Score:5, Insightful)
if microsoft can remotely 'unlegitimize' a copy of windows,
couldn't a virus or worm massively remotely cripple loads of machines
by exploiting this...?
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:5, Informative)
The goal of many viruses is not to destroy stuff, but simple other goals such as:
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, it could...
Imagine, if you will, how Slashdotters are perceived: mostly Linux-fanatics, Microsoft-haters, bloody communists etc.
Is it not possible that some of us created a virus as a mere propaganda tool to make people turn away from Windows?
It wouldn't be that difficult - just create a tiny program that would check for unpatched and unprotected computers. Nothing virus-like in checking whether certain software is present on one's comput
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:3, Funny)
The answer is: There is a difference between being antisocial and being downright sociopathic.
Also I can't think of anything worse than having to understand Windows sufficiently to write such a worm. Urrgh, I feel dirty even thinking about it. I'm off to take a shower in Jeyes Fluid. (Lysol for you US folks).
Confused (Score:5, Funny)
Excuse me, in what order did you write that date ?
When all numbers are below 12, it's quite hard to get a clue
Is it even 2006 ? 1906 and 1006 fits in too...
Re:Confused (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, you have much to learn, young one...
You were hoping to discern my location, political orientation and whatnot based on my date format?
Do you really think I would let on that I'm an alien in such an obvious way?
When you see a flying saucer in front of your house, that's when you'll know we've come for you...
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:4, Insightful)
You install Windows it gets hacked or a virus infects the network then that is considered a risk of using a computer. If they installed Linux or some lesser known OS. It gets hacked or a worm hits it or it crashes for some reason even it if it minor, I am sure you will have a serious talking to with your managers at best, and they may possibly fire you especially if you really fought hard to get this platform in.
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:3, Informative)
That's not to your advantage to do so. A normal way to conduct a successful exploit is to establish a basecamp which can call home and so you can have a certain control (normally done through reverse shell connection or UDP/ping/DNS tunneling to bypass firewalls). Once you have a basecamp, you have no problem getting back on the machine to perform whatever task you want. Then, it is important that you st
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, I'm not sure if initiating a computer-virus war would really be a good idea. It seems like we're definitely throwing st
Re:remote deauthorization (Score:3, Insightful)
Virus scenario (Score:5, Interesting)
This would render millions of genuine installations indistinguishable from pirated installations. What a mess for Microsoft! They would have to immediately "kill forever" the WGA helper, and maybe even remove the WGA check on Windows Update.
Such a virus would be a hard lesson to learn for the writers of all kinds of automated "genuine" checks.
Regards,
M.
Re:Minor edit (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Minor edit (Score:3, Insightful)
By who, exactly?
What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
So Genuine Advantage needs to contact the mothership in order to be told that it's broken and needs to terminate?
Please.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have often wondered whether Steam has a similar feature - if Valve goes bankrupt, for instance, does it release you from the (ridiculous) copy protection/licensing arrangements put in place when you install Half Life 2 and other products?
The best way to do any of this would be to simply check if the parent company's server is still there and able to provide authentication/updating. If it is unavailable for some reason the local software should function autonomously, as it always should, but without the need for approval from the parent.
Of course the *real* best solution is to stop trying to monitor usage on a micro-level and just make good products at a reasonable price. As has been demonstrated over and over again, this is the way to stop piracy.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:3, Informative)
Valve have said that patches would be released to release you from the copy protection in such a situation.
The best way to do any of this would be to simply check if the parent company's server is still there and able to provide authentication/updating. If it is unavailab
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, whats this? It pops up every 10 minutes asking me to reboot and gives me no option like "remind me tomorrow"
Come on microsoft...dont force me to sit through this shit on nonessential updates
This is why you should have set it to: (Score:5, Informative)
Then you can pick and choose which updates you want, and when you decline one, it pops up a message in which you can check "Never ask me again".
Too late for those who trusted Microsoft, though...now you have to do a lot of registry tweaks and stuff [blogspot.com].
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Same tricks, different year.
However it's not like Redhat's Up2date doesn't phone home daily too. Oh and doesn't it NOT allow you to automagically install patches unless you have current support agreement (which you could rotate between servers if you had one).
I only happen to know because a certain software vendor likes to use RHEL (maybe they're just rolling back prices like walmart).
I guess that's within the rules (but they're still scumbags)?
I run Fedora.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)
The file is in the system32 directory and the filename is : "WgaTray.exe". I simply renamed it
Hope this help. Chow
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:3, Informative)
I wonder if it gets blocked if I add it to the program list on Windows Firewall and uncheck it.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Signature? Nope. Pre-sales agreement? Nope. Teeth? HELL no.
No excuses (Score:3, Insightful)
By denying Microsoft the rights you agreed to granting them, you are indeed in breach of contract. You are not doing what you agreed to do, simply put.
If you have a problem with this stuff - buy a Mac (and read the contract/EULA before you start using it) or run Linux (the same applies here).
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
And there you have it. As more and more users come to understand the legal facts of the matter, as expounded in this thread, they will have a strong incentive to adopt other operating systems that cost less and impose less unreasonable conditions.
In this context it is interesting to note that the difference between Windows and Linux is steadily being eroded. Indeed, in some ways Linux is distinctly superior; but the key point is that its weaknesses relative to Windows (read: buying objections) are rapidly disappearing. SuSE, to which I am in the process of migrating, is easier to install than Windows; just as efficient; more flexible; and, AFAICS, just as easy to use once you get used to it (which takes a few days). On the plus side, it's far less expensive, offers far better support, and is open and extensible.
Applications used to be a deal-breaker, but I have been using OpenOffice.org recently and it is, if anything, better than Office for my purposes. (Admittedly, I still have Office 97 which is arguably inferior to Office 2003, but why should I shell out big bucks every few years for what is essentially the same product?) Quicken used to be an issue, until Intuit suddenly withdrew from the UK market at the same time as my copy of Quicken mysteriously stopped working. So now there is really no reason why I would prefer Windows to Linux.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hence, you can resell the media (yours) and the license (yours) but you can't duplicate the software and sell it (not yours!).
It would be interesting to see what Microsoft would do if EULAs were ruled unenforceable; I suspect that they would simply send you out a paper contract in advance of the software, which you would have to read, sign, and return, before they would ship you anything. That's actually SOP for some big enterprise software packages: they don't do their licensing via click-thrus, but rather through contracts signed by the legal parties involved ahead of deployment. Really that's the way it ought to be done -- people would whine about it being an "inconvenience," but at least you could walk away if the agreement looked like crap and not have to worry about getting a refund. I suspect though that at least in some Districts, that EULAs will be found to be quite valid, however, since in theory you can disagree and take the computer/software back for a refund.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether or not Windows is or isn't the best OS to have, these people chose to pay their money to Microsoft and the excuse "It'll teach some pirates a lesson" is not enough to waste their time and money.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Thank you, Microsoft!
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)
I am running... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Your sig--off topic, but it's been driving me n (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Your sig--off topic, but it's been driving me n (Score:3, Funny)
What's with that wheel?
it's been driving me nuts.
Yarr!
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Old News (Score:5, Insightful)
Marketing opportunity (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Marketing opportunity-- then you hire (Score:4, Interesting)
I REGULARLY look at who is behind ANY new IP address, and I DO block entire domains. I don't know how many INDIVIDUALS have over 200 sites on their blacklist, but I do. When doubledick (among others), for instance, gets cute and scarfs up chunks if in-between addresses in random domains, I block the sub-domain if it's interfering TOO much with my surfing. But, in battle against some of these fucks, I DO tolerate 10-60 second page loads. I don't block EVERY company out there, just the big, fat-footed ones whom I suspect of mass-selling surfing information.
Thank YOU LINUX/OS devs and W3C: You helped me not have to surf with with ms crap at home.
BTW, IS THERE a cookie-corruption tool that will decrypt them so I can see what it is trying to do? Is there a way to defeat any checksums so that I can insert crap or taint the call-back numbers in the cookies? This would be so I can misdirect them and be part of a cookie-trashing movement. I'm not looking to gain unauthorized ACCESS, I want to DEAUTHORIZED and DESTROY most of the cookies. Not the ones to my e-mail providers, just the ones to sites I don't have any relationships with. I'm SICK of those who say cookies are harmless. Next, we need to root out those 1x1 pixels and taint them, too. Then the crawlers stuff, and whatever else that comes along.
Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, just reverse the polarity on your firewall, and send an inverse tachyon pulse on a rotating Heisenberg frequency spread though port 228.
But that's, like, second semester Academy stuff, so don't be too impressed.
Whoa! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm protected. (Score:5, Funny)
BRING IT ON!!!
XP Phone Home! (Score:5, Funny)
Ethereal anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
If nobody has I'll sniff anything going to Microsoft's Class B (207.46.*.*) later tonight.
--
From Northern Virginia? Visit Fairfax Underground [fairfaxunderground.com]! (Just added: Fairfax County wiki, need submissions)
Re:Ethereal anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
The DOS command route -p add 207.46.0.0 mask 255.255.0.0 [192.168.0.254] (replace the address in brackets with a random address on your current subnet) will permanently route all would-be "phone home" packets to the random address that you specified.
Re:Ethereal anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
I have seen it with the NT Server Network manager (I think that was it?) that sniffed out the packets. I remember reading how to enable your firewall to block it. ITs been awhile since I read about it but its old news.
Ooops! (Score:5, Funny)
This happened to my moms computer yesterday (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This happened to my moms computer yesterday (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This happened to my moms computer yesterday (Score:5, Interesting)
The Genuine Advantage tool doesn't lock your system. It just doesn't let you download cool freebies (at this time).
You got hit by something else. Upthread someone said that there's some spyware which masquerades as the Genuine Advantage system, and *does* lock your system down.
Talks daily to whose computer? (Score:5, Funny)
Ah screw it! And screw Microsoft, too.
Re:Talks daily to whose computer? (Score:5, Funny)
Not mine. I renamed the icon to be "this".
Re:Talks daily to whose computer? (Score:5, Funny)
With Windows, "My Computer" really isn't mine... (Score:4, Funny)
Bug in Windows Update? (Score:5, Funny)
I got a totally different result myself. When I ran Windows Update on my parents laptop about an hour ago Windows Update renamed 'My Computer' to 'All your computer are belong to Microsoft' and changed the system name to 'Skynet subnode 3964270017356334576934-X371N02'. Has anybody else experienced this?
OMG! Everyday?! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:OMG! Everyday?! (Score:3, Funny)
But buggers can
WgaTray.exe (Score:4, Informative)
Re:WgaTray.exe (Score:5, Interesting)
I looked for a very long time on McAfee's site to figure out how the ASAP intranet updating software worked so I could set appropriate firewall rules. Then I noticed that with a fully locked-down PC, it was already receiving said updates and connecting to other locked-down PCs for them.
Great, I thought, the Windows firewall really is useless.
Nice Title... (Score:3, Funny)
So why are we talking about their 'tools?'
This is why I've been staying off WindowsUpdate - (Score:4, Informative)
But you know, I havent been to WindowsUpdate in over a year.
I use a great (and free) tool provided by microsoft themselves - called "MBSA" (Microsoft Base Security Analyzer [microsoft.com]) to download and install updates.
With MBSA, I can do a quick install of Windows XP with SP2 integrated in vmware, then run this tool, and find out that (as of yesterday) there are 39 hotfixes needed for vanilla XPSP2 install, and it gives me direct (no WGA crap) links to download these updates. All I have to do then is save them all one by one, integrate them into a XP SP2 iso image, and use this pre-integrated disk to install with.
Since i reinstall windows every few months this is not a problem, and for those who insist on keeping windows machine installed longer, they can simply use MBSA to download incremental updates and install them manually.
Re:This is why I've been staying off WindowsUpdate (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is why I've been staying off WindowsUpdate (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This is why I've been staying off WindowsUpdate (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, that's exactly what it's for. I did this when I last upgraded my PC, because I was going SATA RAID, knew that the drivers wouldn't be available on my XP Pro CD (it predates SP1), and couldn't be bothered to buy a floppy drive (I've not had one for years). I integrated the drivers, Service Pack 2 and a few other hotfixes.
Have a look at this article [short-media.com], which details using nLite [nliteos.com] to perform the slipstreaming (note that the link in the article is d
...the hell? (Score:5, Funny)
- Our new operating system, Windows Vista, requires only the best high-end hardware so that, even on a system well beyond the power you should ever need, you'll still get the true Windows Experience(TM)
- The new Windows Media Player 11 features all-new and exclusive DRM, or Degradation Resistment Technology by Microsoft, which not only provides wonderful sound in the new and improved WMA format, but protects your rights as well.
- Our operating systems now report back with system information and other information which we feel should be collected from your system at any given time to improve your computing experience.
Microsoft: Where do we want to take you today?
Microsoft doesn't talk to my computer. (Score:3, Interesting)
Considering how often Windows is pirated, I can't say this surprises me. Their excuse is stupid. They should just say "Look, we know people pirate. So we're going to check. If you don't like it, tough." Don't hide it. I'm not saying they're right or wrong to do this -- just that they should be up front about it if they are going to.
It won't make a dent in their sales. Whether or not you hate Microsoft, love Linux/Apple, or cling to OS/2 -- Microsoft is currently the top dog. Right or wrong; I'm not taking a stance on that, here. It's going to take a lot more than this to hurt Microsoft's bottom line.
So, you know, just tell us what information you're going to collect.
I have a idea. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I have a idea. (Score:3, Informative)
Why the broadcast address?
Daily conversation transcript intercepted (Score:4, Funny)
M$: Hi Schnookums!
Your Computer: Just checking in
M$: I love you honey
Your Computer: Bye Bye Baby
M$: Sweet Dreams
Your Computer: No you hangup
M$: No no you hangup
Learn how to ghost... (Score:4, Informative)
Genuine Infection (Score:3, Informative)
"Oh, that's a nice drive C you have there. It would be a shame if... something happened to it."
Microsoft could do something much more beneficial to the world if he remotely deactivated all network access in pirated windows- at least we would be safe from unpatched machines spreading viruses and spam.
And the killer ironic remark (Score:3, Interesting)
I estimate... (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft's mouse driver also checks in daily (Score:4, Interesting)
Why does a mouse driver need to call in daily?
A better question is: Why install the driver at all?
Pretty well every version of Windows recognizes a Microsoft mouse with no need for drivers from the CD.
Don't set the bar too high, Billy Boy! (Score:3, Funny)
EULA? (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft needs to get its act together (Score:4, Insightful)
Patch to disable reporting now available! (Score:5, Funny)
Should be illegal. (Score:3, Insightful)
Wonder what size their database is now... (Score:3, Funny)
Thank God I've been running Linux since 1993!!!
Re:What's up with the intercapping? (Score:4, Funny)
Being Slashdot, you have to praise the editors for what they didn't do. In this case they didn't write it as Micro$oft, MicroShaft or MicroShit.
Good job, boys! Have a cookie!
Re:What's up with the intercapping? (Score:3, Funny)
What kind of an insane person cares about that?
Re:What's up with the intercapping? (Score:3, Interesting)
Your paranoia is showing. About the only "freedom" Microsoft is actively trying to curb is the "freedom" to violate copyright[0].
On another point IT is arguably the most imporant industry on the planet. It is literally the glue that holds modern civiliation together. Ms is bad for IT, Ms is bad for civilization.
Maybe if you're a thirteen year old kid who thinks "modern civilisation" eq
Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)
If a corp. license gets out into the wild, it's going to spread like mad (duh). With all those updated PCs phoning home on a daily basis, Microsoft should be quick to get wise to whose key just slipped out and put the kibosh on it.
How many people had the FCKGW key before that got pulled in SP1?
Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)
Regarding point 2: Where is the safety switch for internet explorer? I'm sure IE causes way more "computer explosions" than genuine advantage.
Let's be honest here. A phone-home capability in genuine advantage is suspicious, given the function of the genuine advantage program. It makes people running pirated versions of windows especially nervous. The bottom line is, if it isn't a spy tool, there ought to be an option to disable it. If it is a spy tool, get it the fuck off my computer. Period.
Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)
Boo hoo.. poor people running pirated copies.
If they're too stupid/lazy/cocky to keep themselves isolated by a good firewall, then I have no sympathy.
There are plenty of valid reasons why this "feature," or at least the lack of disclosure, is immoral. Protecting piracy is not one of them.
Re:Yawn (Score:4, Informative)
Me too. there are three services that windows requires to get the free updates. They demand one of them is set to launch "automatic".
I reenable the services, and get the updates - I then disable the services and guess what?
No phoning home.
Automatic Updates (allows the site to find, download and install high-priority updates for your computer)
Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) (helps updates download more quickly and without problems if the download process is interrupted)
Event Log (keeps a record of updating activities to help with troubleshooting, if needed)
make them manual -
Automatic Updates is the one that phones home.
It's trivially easy to shut off.
Re:Yawn (Score:3, Interesting)
Good, I've been building our 2006-07 academic year image on XP and this tool has twice kicked-in and called my legit-via-volume-key XP image a fraud. I eventually figured out that I had to be less millitant about deleting miscellaneous files before syspreping the beast, but I can certainly see some malware out there deliberate
Re:Yawn (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, for one. How does legal software become illegal? You only need to check once.
This is a simple enough program that there shouldn't ever be a need for a safety switch, and since it only runs the one time, there's no need for it.
And Microsoft has established a history of doing this kind of crap in the past. Is there any reason why anyone should expect them to behave differently today? Seriously. Is there anything which Microsoft has experienced which might give them pause to consider this behaviour as potentially improper?
Re:Yawn (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I would rather maintain control of what software runs on my computer, responsiblity for deciding whether I believe it will make anything explode, and retain the right to the final call over whether I will do something about it.
Re:Thank God! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
B) We are supposed to trust MS that this thing is only asking MS if it needs to be shut off? What the hell kind of reason is that to phone home?
C) Why the hell does this software need to be running all the time? It's taking resources doing nothing but asking MS if it should be shut off?! Why can't it be started up and shut off only when needed?
D) There have been false reports of pirated software. Will this software one day just decide you're using a pirated version and kill your machine? Some people depend on their computers to feed themselves. If this software screws up and kills a machine and the owner has several days of downtime who's going to compensate them?
E) If you really think MS (or any large corporation for that matter) is above abusing phone home programs you got blinders on. Why should we trust large companies with our private informaton while not trusting actual people with our social security number?
F) The reason megacorps and the people who run them are so successful is always a combination of luck, smarts, and ability to stab people in the back and laugh about it. I'm not saying large corporations should be ended, but they should be approached with caution. They will try to get away with whatever the hell they can. It's the consumer's job to keep them in check... Well it's the goverment's job too, but they seem to be doing a shit job to say the least.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:at least they don't steal user files (Score:3, Insightful)