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EU Think Tank Urges Full Windows Unbundling
Posted by
Zonk
on Sun Sep 23, 2007 09:09 PM
from the fly-be-free-little-components dept.
from the fly-be-free-little-components dept.
leffeman writes "An influential Brussels think tank is urging the European Commission to ban the bundling of operating systems with desktop and laptop computers. The Globalisation Institute's submission to the Commission says that bundling 'is not in the public interest' and that the dominance of Windows has 'slowed technical improvements and prevented new alternatives entering from the marketplace.' It says the Microsoft tax is a burden on EU businesses: the price of operating systems would be lower in a competitive market. This is the first time a major free-market think tank has published in favour of taking action against Microsoft's monopoly power."
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EU Think Tank Urges Full Windows Unbundling
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Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday October 24, @03:50AM)
No, you're wrong.
Microsoft's monopoly depends on a legally protected special privilege, which is already anti free-market. Removing the privilege would be a difficult option, so attacking one of the symptoms (bundling is also a consequence of monopoly, not just a cause) is being recommended instead.
Re:Interesting... (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is this: I DONT WANT WINDOWS... (Score:5, Insightful)
Answer: I can't.
Yes, there's some places to get one but they cost the same, or more, as a computer with Windows.
How can this be when a retail copy of Windows costs {$hundreds}?
"Unbundling" doesn't mean you won't be able to buy computers with Windows preinstalled, it removes the "bundle" aspect of the deal. Windows should be an extra and it should cost more than the basic model.
the "non-bundle" PC could even be the exact same machine but missing the plastic card with the license key printed on it. When you switch it on it says "(a) Enter Windows license key", "(b) Format disk".
It doesn't need to inconvenience anybody. It just needs to remove Microsoft's automatic inclusion in the sales loop.
Re:The problem is this: I DONT WANT WINDOWS... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.violence.de/)
Not true. I did a price comparison today of Dell's German Ubuntu laptop offer and it was about 40 EUR cheaper without Windows than an equivalent Windows configuration. My brother operates an Ubuntu PC online shop [lincomp.eu], and he also sells for the same or less than Windows configurations (including a 600 page Ubuntu handbook). Note that this only sells to Germany for now, though he is looking for franchising partners in other EU countries (hence the EU domain name). I like the way he works; he only sells systems he personally would buy, and only if they work really well under Ubuntu.
It's time to stop whining; many choices are out there now. In my opinion, the focus should now be on pressuring hardware manufacturers to better support Linux, and to clearly identify hardware which works under recent Linux versions out of the box. (I've recently seen peripherals sold with penguin logos, so we're getting there.) Ubuntu itself also still has some way to go to become a true consumer product; for example, recent versions have seen regressions [intelligentdesigns.net] on things like scanner and sound support.
Another issue is the handling of proprietary software and codecs. In my view, Ubuntu should do three things:
- Bundle or make it super-easy to obtain proprietary software which many people depend on (Skype, Flash, etc.). If the makers do not give permission to do so, say so clearly to the community. For each proprietary tool you include, create an open fundraising site to build a viable open source alternative. (And yes, that includes VoIP - I still haven't found anything open source that's nearly as powerful as Skype, esp. the Windows version; the Linux one is poorly maintained.) And before you start going on about the GPL, there is no GPL issue with including proprietary software in a Linux distribution. This falls under "aggregation" in section 5.
- At the very least, try to obtain permission to include proprietary codecs like MP3 from the patent-holders. If they refuse to grant it freely, say so clearly. I've seen lots of worries that someone might get sued, or that someone might have to pay, but no clear and unambiguous distinction between "X has asked us to pay fee $Y per user for this" and "We're not including this for ideological reasons, and because we might get sued." Of course you would promote Theora, Vorbis and other free codecs in the relevant tools.
- Openly violate the DMCA until there is a high court ruling that clearly shows that making DVDs freely playable under Linux is illegal. Make this a cyberrights issue. If you don't do so, this issue will never get the visibility it needs.
Divorce dogmatic ideology from free culture pragmatism. We all know that we want a system that's as free as possible, but to get there, we'll have to deal with the reality as it is today. Having a system that is entirely and perpetually "free as in beer" is a great first step before we can have one that's entirely "free as in speech".Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Aside from that, in all modern "free markets", abuse of monopolistic power (as MS has done countless times) is *illegal* and subject to regulation. Or do you think it would be OK if you had to pay $2,000 a month to the monopoly power company for a 1,500ft^2 home?
Monopolies are bad for business, bad for innovation, bad for consumers. Some are unavoidable... but if you can stop a monopoly from ruining consumer choice simply by stating it isn't allowed to "bundle" under other products, then why the hell not?
What would you think if just about every retail TV sold had a Kodak DVD player bundled with it? What if you didn't WANT a Kodak DVD player? What if you wanted a blueray player, or a different brand, or already owned a DVD player and didn't want to pay for one yet again? What if you found out the only way you could avoid that bundle was to buy a few obscure TV models, on-line, but they cost almost the same anyway, since they are obscure? This is the type of market abuse that MS has enjoyed for waaaay too long.
Re:Interesting... (Score:4, Funny)
(Last Journal: Friday November 09, @01:36AM)
Well, they're good for somebody. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them.
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.omnifarious.org/~hopper/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 02, @12:21PM)
They assist primarily with copyright law, but also with trademark law and trade secret law. They also assist with the laws that define corporations and give them rights as if they were people. There is a whole host of ways in which government assists just about any corporation. IMHO, a corporation can not be thought of separate from the government and laws that allow it to exist as a legal entity.
Re:Interesting... (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.vhemt.org/)
Yes. Let me quote Wikipedia, the always 100% correct and unbiased online encyclopedia:
One could argue that someone with a nucular device is a body that is in power to enforce rules and laws within any group of people sufficiently close. This is what the government is, and has always been. Difference is that now we often chose the guy with the nuke, or at least are lead to believe to have a choice... :)
Re:Interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.sergiocarvalho.com/)
- No hydroelectric power. Large hydroelectric plants are not anywhere close to large consumers, and are too large for any individual consumer, making them unfeasible.
- No nuclear plants. Ditto.
- Much lower efficiency termic power. Coal/fuel plants improve in efficiency when very large scale. A large fuel plant gets about 50% efficiency, due to heat recovery methods. Individual generators -- the portable kind -- are closer to 10% efficiency.
- No load balancing for wind power. Wind power, while efficient, requires load balancing in the grid, like dams pumping water upstream, in order to cope with the fluctuations of power production vs consumption.
- No load balancing for solar power. Ditto.
Maybe individual power is really even less feasible than you might realize.Re:Interesting... (Score:4, Informative)
(Last Journal: Friday May 21 2004, @12:42PM)
Actually that's not quite correct. You can't have a monopoly without government assistance, so any market in which a monopoly exists is not a truly free one.
Fucking libertarians.
Tell you what you need to do: go to Somalia. Now, set up competition in the gun running business. Or drug running. Or hell, making eye openers for the Wal Mart crowd Let's see how long you last.
Oh but WAIT, I can hear you so valiantly protest, the warlords are a DE FACTO government, thus my original point stands! Taxation is theft, just like those guys! Taaa-daa!
And that IS the reason you are wrong, but you're too much of a fucking evangelical nutbag to see it: social organisms -- of which an ECONOMY is one -- cannot successfully exist without governments, and the best governments are democratically controlled. Where there is a power vacuum warlords will rise to fill it. The pseudo-anarchy advocated by libertarians is not successful. Never has been, unless you want to go back to the neolithic period for examples.
Fuck I hate libertarians. I also hate the free market, mainly because I'm so sick and goddamn tired about hearing how perfect and holy it is, when it's nothing more than an ethereal Platonic ideal that a bunch of zealots hold up as their own personal Jesus.
Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Funny)
(http://covertinferno.org/)
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:4, Insightful)
My $0.02 on unbundling Windows is that it would be a bad thing for the reasons the parent specified. The thing about Windows is: it just freakin' works for the non-technically-inclined. Take this bundling away from them and POOF! They're lost.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
Requiring computers to be sold without an OS is just asking for trouble. Most people out there, even today, and probably worse than in the past, aren't going to want to install one. And that assumes that they even know how. Worse still are the times when the authentication server for Windows is down, and people have to call in.
If this is put into place, I rather think that MS is going to do better, and that Apple will probably sell more computers, just fewer people will use OSX. I could be wrong, but it seems like this would damage OSX far more than Windows.
I just don't see how this is ultimately in the best interests of the anybody.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft having trouble with their authentication servers can't be a reason not to allow fair access to their competitors. They will either get it fixed or lose business.
There is no reason to make people get their OS elsewhere, just offer a choice of (customized) OS installation CD's to be included at full retail price.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.pvv.org/~bcd)
In a recent WW2 documentary, they said that when the US fielded tanks into the war, they didn't have to specifically assign mechanics to the tank units because most of the boys were accomplished mechanics already, from tinkering around with their cars at home. Pretty much everybody did it at the time. We're a bit past that point wrt computers today (that may have been the early nineties), but not by a whole lot.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday October 24, @03:50AM)
There was an article in our local paper last week about people throwing away malware infested computers because it cost more to clean them than replace them.
Does that sound like Windows is "just freakin' working"?
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Interesting)
But I never charge $50 for an install. I do all the drivers, the updates, give them free antivirus/adware protection, free productivity apps, etc. My cost is $85.00. I know others have higher costs and some lower. When you consider it takes at least 2 hours to just do the Microsoft updates/service packs (including the option software) -- after the OS has been installed with drivers -- before protection apps and then beautification you should be able to see why $85.00 is not out of line. It can take 4-8 hours just to complete the install with everything.
Bundling helps companies such as Dell, Sony, etc. It hurts consumer choice because they don't realize they have a choice of operating systems other than Microsoft. When people find out from me they are happy I told them and amazed they didn't know there were other choices. I've turned a lot of people onto the Macintosh and onto Linux. Almost everyone that comes into my store gets a demo of Linux with Beryl/Compiz.
Consumers need to know there's a choice!!!
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday October 24, @03:50AM)
But why?
Have a look at this laptop from a second-tier computer builder's website [pioneercomputers.com.au]. Scroll about a third of the way down the page to the "Operating Systems" checkbox. Note that you can choose between None, Ubuntu, XP, and a collection of Vista versions.
Imagine a future version of the same field, but with "MacOS XVIII", "Plan 10" "FreeBeOS", "ReactOS Hurd", "AmigaOS Phoenix", etc, etc in the list. Real choice, in other words.
Now imagine a world where you could click any one of those OS choices and be confident your data would be usable, that you could connect to any network you needed to, that your investment in software would be portable. A world where you could choose your OS based on price, performance and personal taste, not on format lockin and obfuscated communication protocols.
That's the world Microsoft is fighting against.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:4, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday August 29, @03:43PM)
Great, when you can find me that version of Alibre 3D design software that runs on Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu, let me know... Heck, when you find a common version of a spreadsheet program that runs on those three platforms let me know! I know this is /. and hating MS is de rigeur, but in some cases having a monopoly platform is what enabled the explosion in IT and the penetration of computers into the corporate and home worlds. I remember the way things were back in the late 70s and early 80s. I remember headaches trying to get a Wang document to translate to an Osborne CP/M system.
Having a common platform, and for some applications a completely common interface, is really a good thing. Think cars, road dimensions, and gas nozzle sizes. Standardizing is the important thing here - your car can pretty much drive on any road, and stop at any gas station because of these standards.
If you want to do the BEST thing for the consumer world, don't push to add lots more choices to the OS platform; that's going to end up with the BlueRay/HD-DVD issue where J6P doesn't know what to buy, so chooses not to participate. Push to get a stable, common API exposed on that platform - whoever supplies it - and go from there.
Push to standardize the meanings of common icons - file save/open/new; copy/cut/paste; help/e-mail/launch web; and other common tasks. So that J6P can sit down in front of your application and intuitively know what to do.
Otherwise you'll always end up with people sticking with what they know. Because the reality most people simply want to do the task at hand with the least amount of effort - INCLUDING effort to learn a new application interface. If they're familiar with the Excel interface, then getting them to change to something else is near-Herculean.
Choice is only useful to those who understand their choices; to the rest, it's needless obfuscation, anxiety, and yet another barrier to entry.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://digitrev.livejournal.com/)
Of course you wouldn't. Because it's just plain stupid. So why on god's green earth should MS be allowed to create the standard for the computing world? They shouldn't. Someone else (say, ISO, only without the bribery) should be in charge of the standards. And then let people choose on which company best delivers on those standards.
As for you comment about too many choices, give Joe SixPack default options and recommendations. Or hell, let him go into the store and ask what he should get for his computer. If he's not smart enough to know what his computer should do, then why is he customizing a computer? That's like letting me try and customize a car. I don't know enough about it, and I will either do my research, or ask for the opinion of the salesman. The point is, Joe SixPack should be given the opportunity to pick what he wants, but also offered a default option should he not fully understand his choices. It's like default/advanced install options. The default is good for the average user. For those who know what they're doing, let them screw with the advanced options.
But hey. That's just me and my two cents.
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Waves of Mass histeria (Score:5, Insightful)
Is driving a car intuitive? No, you must first be taught and learn how to do so. After you acquire the basic knowledge, you then have the cognitive tools to be able to adapt.
Is that to say things have to be needlessly complex? No, but then let the *market* decide that for themselves. It's one thing to give people choice, it's totally another to *remove* choice. And that's what Microsoft has done, using any tactic possible to hinder or outright prevent any choice other than Microsoft.
Yes, choice is only useful for those who understand. Now ask yourself the question, how useful is understanding when you have no choice?