Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Bitcoin

California Announces DMV-Run Blockchain Through Partnership With Tezos (fortune.com) 63

Posted by BeauHD from the innovation-where-you'd-least-expect-it dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Fortune: The Department of Motor Vehicles has never been an agency that screams innovation. The agency is better know for bureaucracy and endless lines than technological transformation. But this may be changing after a collaboration between California's DMV and open-source blockchain Tezos and Oxhead Alpha, a crypto-focused software development firm. Together, the three partners are building a DMV-run blockchain that will not only digitize car titles for California drivers, but also seek to streamline title transfers between owners.

Ajay Gupta, the chief digital officer at the California DMV, said that the agency hopes to finalize its "shadow ledger," or a full replication of the state's title database on the blockchain, within the next three months before building consumer-facing applications, including digital wallets that hold car title NFTs. "The DMV's perception of lagging behind should definitely change," Gupta told Fortune in an exclusive interview. [...] Andrew Smith, the president of Oxhead Alpha, said that he was pleasantly surprised by how quickly the Gupta-led DMV wanted to move with the initiative. He described the current system as using 18th-century paper-based technology to solve 21st-century transaction fraud, pointing to the common sense solutions presented by digitizing car titles and tracing their movement. For example, if someone buys a "lemon," or faulty car, in California, it will have a special designation on their title. If they then move out of state and back into California with the car, they can shirk the "lemon" branding and sell the car without the new buyer knowing. "As far as the benefit for having a persistent digital title, this is a very obvious use case," Smith said.

The DMV worked with Oxhead Alpha and Tezos to create a private instance of the Tezos blockchain, which would increase security compared to relying on a public blockchain. Smith said that the DMV chain is currently operational and running DMV validator nodes. For now, the blockchain will operate in the background, but Gupta hopes to create consumer-facing applications soon. An obvious application would be allowing people to transfer car ownership between digital wallets through an NFT version of their title, with the DMV acting as a middleman to ensure that all the sale obligations are completed. Gupta said that type of functionality is on the horizon. Another possible use case is transferring titles between states. Smith said that he's seen a lot of appetite from municipal-level governments, with mayors such as Miami's Francis Suarez advocating for crypto, and that generating interest from states would come next.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

California Announces DMV-Run Blockchain Through Partnership With Tezos More

California Announces DMV-Run Blockchain Through Partnership With Tezos

Comments Filter:

  • ...sold clueless bureaucrats a brown stinky mess

    • As its public money, name the DMV people who signed this deal, and also report how much. In the interests of transparency the contracts should also go online, with the name and date of those who signed them. I bet this is 'use case' where every access and bit of papers $$$ costs $$$ their captive customers. The cost of a transfer should be no more than the cost of changing you name on the D/L, and that cost should be compared with other DMV's worldwide. There is even a false use case about lemon cars that

  • I wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lab Rat Jason ( 2495638 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:25PM (#63243607)

    I wonder how they're going to deal with repos, deaths, and other cases where the holder of the title refuses/cannot transfer it on the blockchain? If the DMV has the authority to change the blockchain at will, then how are they going to protect against inside jobs where someone pays a DMV employee to "certify" they own a vehicle they stole? So many questions! Also, currently vehicle ownership records are private... what is the benefit of making this info public? Who cares, and what nefarious ways will bad actors find to leverage this information?

    • They call it a shadow ledger etc. Everything suggests transfers etc on the chain is not based on any end user action or credentials, it's merely tracked in a blockchain too. Like 99 percent or cases It's a complete fake application of blockchain with no benefits over the DMV just writing this data in a database. They will also still need a site where people can look up the data and this site could be based equivalently on said database instead of the chain. I don't see how this combats the mentioned fraud s
      • Bingo. You donâ(TM)t need a blockchain when there is a centralized authority involved. The entire purpose of a blockchain is to create trust in a decentralized ledger. You can use WORM storage and get centralized immutable storage including better performance and lower costs. This entire project smells like incompetence or worse. Unfortunately, they arenâ(TM)t the only ones trying to push the blockchain magic into government systems. Someone will make a career removing these blockchain systems in

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Flammon ( 4726 )
          When a central authority is involved, the blockchain can still provide some benefits such as transfers without the central authority's involvement. That's a massive cost savings in time and money. Imagine not needing to go to the DMV and waiting in line for hours because you're buying a car from someone. The central authority only comes into play during conflicts or situations where the owner is incapable of signing transactions.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Flammon ( 4726 )
      The DMV will have control over the smart contract and will only get involved in rare situations like you've described and all ownership transfers will be open to be verified by the public so if anyone corrupt from the DMV decides to get involved into some funny business, it'll all be transparent and public.

  • Worse than useless (Score:3)

    by boxless ( 35756 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:25PM (#63243609)

    What a tool this guy at the DMV is.

    Iâ(TM)m not here to debate whether there should be something like a DMV, or titles. But, if they are going to stay around, then we already have digital titles. They are in the computer system of the dmv. Letâ(TM)s add another effing layer so this jerk can feel important.

    The goddamn block chain is a solution still looking for a problem.

    • The use case for block chain based car titles is clear.

      We need DMV block chain in order to advance the public record of car title data in the info space where block chain is the only sensible technical solution to this long running problem of how to digitize NFT based public data. HODL!!!!

      Got it?

  • Solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by IcyWolfy ( 514669 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:26PM (#63243613) Homepage

    What does this solution bring over a database with change-records and solid backup solution?

    From my uninformed view; setting a database keyed by VIN, with persistant status, and audit record of all changes entered.
    Why should a car ever lose it's "lemon" status flag by leaving the state. Just don't delete old vin records. It's still part of California's VIN record for the vehicle, regardless if it comes back in through a different state. Update existing owner, but all the old status flags still exist.

    One complication:
    California using eTitles has been a nightmare for leaving the state.
    Arizona _requires_ a paper title to register the vehicle, California took 18+months to figure out how to provide something that AZ DOT would accept.
    How will this complicate interstate title transfers?

    • That's one way to make it so you can check out but you can never leave.

    • Re:Solution (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:46PM (#63243655)

      >What does this solution bring over a database with change-records and solid backup solution?

      It satisfies some idiot who thinks they're smart and is in a decision-making position. OR, it satisfies someone who gets a percentage and either is in a decision-making position or owns someone who is.

      Nobody who understands databases and security would ever recommend a blockchain for... well, for anything really, but especially for an application such as this.

      >setting a database keyed by VIN, with persistant status, and audit record of all changes entered.

      You probably want a few tables, but some might be in a shared database.

      For instance, a table of registered vehicles by VIN is fine, but you're likely to cross-link it to tables about manufacturers, makes, models, model years, etc. And it's going to need a unique key as well so you can simply duplicate the rest of the record if something significant changes to the vehicle (unless that comes with a mandatory VIN change, I don't know)

      And you're likely going to want to have a table for RO, which would have their name and address - maybe a field for the credit card they paid for their last set of plates with, etc.

      You're going to have a separate verified address table rather than just take the RO's word for it.

      And RO table might just need to handle name changes, or (depending on state and state law) gender changes, so you're going to want a table of past 'aliases'. It doesn't need to be particularly well indexed or maintained, not that many people continually change their names, and the need to look up past names is going to be an infrequent occurrence.

      Then there are the photos. You're going to want to store a lot of photos. Every one ever taken per RO. At some point you're going to start running face recognition against them to prevent identify theft.

      Then there's plates. That ought to be a table, too.

      And tickets? That's a table.

      All of them will have to be linked through a master table that's essentially a unique key and a series of references to other tables. You want to be able to look up information from any table starting from any other table. Including history.

      And when a vehicle is destroyed - you mark it destroyed and keep the record for 100 years anyway. You never know if the destruction really happened and maybe the vehicle will pop up in a crime in a month. You're going to want the record to trace it back to the wrecker and the previous owner. Status options should include 'active', 'stolen', 'expired', 'destroyed', 'lemon' and whatever else you can think of.

      It's actually a pretty complicated database to set up properly, and it'll take some extra effort to secure it while sharing it with other agencies.

      • And block chain and NFT will solve any of those complexities?

        If anything it would be harder because you end up with NFT data blobs instead of indexed searchable tables.

        • Blockchain and NFT makes it slower, take up significantly more disk space, and uses more outgoing bandwidth. A replicating database is a solved problem, makes lookups fast for verifying information, dirt cheap because multiple vendors implement it. Fast to deploy because everything is off-the-shelf. It can be an apt-get on a stock Ubuntu system to setup a replication worker that meets the bare minimum requirements. Basically someone at the DMV worked on a pet project instead of doing good IT.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Flammon ( 4726 )

        Nobody who understands databases and security would ever recommend a blockchain for... well, for anything really, but especially for an application such as this.

        A blockchain gives the car owners the ability to transfer ownership securely *without* the DMV's involvement or the DMV's app, which is not possible with an SQL db.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Slayer ( 6656 )

      Blockchains have achieved something, which most software products including data bases still struggle with:

      • - a robust public facing transactional interface with extremely high uptime
      • - write transaction cost in the sub cent range (e.g. polygon), and almost zero cost read-only access
      • - a public interface, which anyone can use across all platforms
      • - no license costs
      • - very modest hardware requirements
      • - trivial implementation of backup with no interruption to operations
      • - turing complete interactions with extremely
  • Sounds like a pretty cool idea. Can solve so many issues such as preventing a rogue employee from making unauthorized or malicious changes, as the history of the transaction will be on the blockchain, forever immutable and traceable to who made the change. Since the addresses will essentially be random until someone volunteers that they own that address, privacy will also be maintained. Plus verifying ownership would be so simple
    Can't wait to see more real world applications of the blockchain

    • You donâ(TM)t need the blockchain for any of that, you blockhead! Everything youâ(TM)ve mentioned are solved problems.

    • Uh, how often does a DMV employee abuse their computer rights to steal a car or whatever?

      And the odds of getting away with that are how high above zero?

      • Not just DMV employees, anyone with access to the DMV computer systems. Given my DMV hosts an open WiFi on the same network as their Windows XP and 7, I would say they are already compromised. âoeCalifornia DMV hit by data breach, exposing millions of drivers' personal information to hackers.â was several years ago.

        • Ok, DMV has been breached. Hackers digitally steal cars and sell them to chop shops. Owners stand by helplessly while MS13 thugs are handed their lambo keys by the sheriff because the computer says so.

          Uh no. That's Hollywood movie stuff. In real life real people would be like wtf? and it would all be reversed and we'd get 3 slashdot dupe stories about it 2 years later.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by guruevi ( 827432 )

            Uhm, no, not really Hollywood stuff. Personal data stolen is consistently being used by thieves to social engineer car manufacturers/dealerships into issuing them replacement keys.

            • You don't need to hack the dmv to get all the PII you need. And the vin is right there on the dash.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by guruevi ( 827432 )

                Then why does anyone bother hacking anything at all? Proof of ownership is a bit more than just providing the VIN, it generally includes insurance policy, driver's license and other information all of which the DMV conveniently centralizes.

                • I sold my car to one of those online car for cash places last summer.

                  I did not have to provide insurance or anything else interesting.

                  The only verification from the seller side (me) what signing the dmv transfer form which is not signature matched.

                  Yes this was in CA.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

      Any and all "real-world applications" of blockchain that you are ever aware of will be terrible.

    • Verifying ownership is already simple. Preventing someone from making unauthorized changes is already simple (you hold the physical title). On top of that, this is a government agency. It is inherently centralized, so what the hell kind of benefit could you get from shoehorning in something designed for managing decentralized computing?

  • With biometric computer or human verification. Current law destroys you if you lose your ID traveling: cant board plane, cant get hotel room, all by federal law. Some anonymized variant of info from digital ID checks could be on blockchain, so holders can spot any digital identity theft.

  • Somebody bribed somebody (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:40PM (#63243733)
    to get this done. Blockchain is just a database. A very slow, inefficient database at that. That's it. This is just a waste of money using buzzwords to fool dumb people.

    • No way, block chain is magic and the solution to everything especially problems that were solved decades ago. The only way to fix those solved long ago problems is to implement block chain and NFT for everything! HODL!! Taste the feeling!

    • Its an extra tax if you want to avoid the line at the DMV. Buy your title NFT from the DMV and put it in a wallet. Sell your car and move your title to another wallet, while paying a middle-man a fee. DMV could just improve their own services. Something tells me that Gupta owns a lot of Tezos.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Flammon ( 4726 )
      Disappointing to see such an ignorant comment with a score of 5, insightful. Looks like the moderation system needs some work. It ain't like the old days and yes, I've been around for a while. Look at my UID.
  • Absolutely ridiculous.

    A vehicle licensing scheme needs none of the benefits of a Blockchain, an otherwise horrifically slow and inefficient database scheme.

    Someone has told the DMV that you can do digital signatures in MySQL, right?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Flammon ( 4726 )
      This is only true if think the government must be involved in all of your transactions.

  • WTF (Score:3)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @09:16PM (#63243795)

    > If they then move out of state and back into California with the car, they can shirk the "lemon" branding and sell the car without the new buyer knowing. "As far as the benefit for having a persistent digital title, this is a very obvious use case," Smith said.

    That is what the VIN number is for. Yeah it can be scratched off. Which is easier for a car to lose, its physical id or its digital it that isn't physically connected to it.

    There is no need for a public database, certainly no need for blockchain. WTF?

    • Isn't there already a public database? Something about foxes?

    • It makes sense now... of course Bobby Tables is now Robert Tables and he works for DMV. Robert is going to make damn sure that any records of your VIN are gone if you register it in another state, lemon laws be damned. You better believe that Robert has a script for that. Seems that the state can't fire Robert for reasons and so the only way the state has to keep Robert's scripts off the data is blockchain, Tezos blockchain.

  • The documentary that decimates blockchain (Score:4, Informative)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @09:33PM (#63243807)

    Have any of those people seen this documentary on blockchain? [youtube.com]

    The idea that this tech is in any way an improvement over what has been in use, doesn't seem remotely plausible.

  • Dumb (Score:3)

    by Bahbus ( 1180627 ) on Thursday January 26, 2023 @10:27PM (#63243875) Homepage

    This solves nothing. The blockchain isn't needed for any of the so-called benefits. All this digitization has been possible for decades, including traceable changes and immutable hierarchy, WITHOUT a blockchain. In fact, because they're relying on a blockchain, it will end up failing in some form or another and cost them even more money. Just another grifting company nabbing up all the suckers.

    Blockchain does not scale well, and never will. Its "good" use cases are extremely limited and are all small scale. In fact, the good use cases are so small scale that I can guarantee you if you are hearing/reading about one then it's already too big and will crash n' burn. Anyone who fails to see that is an absolute moron.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      This solves nothing. The blockchain isn't needed for any of the so-called benefits. All this digitization has been possible for decades, including traceable changes and immutable hierarchy, WITHOUT a blockchain.

      But without a blockchain, how can scammers running NFT trading platforms possibly hope to ensure that people will lose their cars in addition to their life savings when they go under?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Flammon ( 4726 )
      It removes the government's involvement from the transfer of ownership.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

        Blockchain isn't necessary for that AND government is still going to be involved. So, you're stupid twice.

  • Know this, in just a matter of months, we're finally going to have those digital wallets, where you can get your driver's license on a digital wallet. And we're going to do it like no other state has done it. There's only a few that have. But there's issues. Ours we think it'll be next level. We're so excited about what the DMV can look like.

    Now I am really concerned about what Newsom said the other day about Digital IDs in California....

    • And who was clamoring to have their license or title stored in a digital "wallet" anyhow? "Finally", makes it sound like people have been demanding this be done, and I simply don't buy that. I bet if someone did a poll on the issue, more people would be against it than for, with the overwhelming majority not caring.

      Also, there's this enjoyable bit of nonsense, "we're going to do it like no other State has done it, except the ones that have done it.".

    • Absolutely. A Digital ID which goes in your digital wallet. Your car title? Digital wallet. They're talking about eliminating cash. You money goes in your digital wallet. A digital wallet which necessitates having a smart phone which you'll be forced to carry everywhere. A smart phone who's location and movement, as everyone here knows, is tracked and logged. Orwell was only off by a few decades.

  • "The Department of Motor Vehicles has never been an agency that screams innovation." Adopting blockchain screams of stupidity.

  • "Streamline" (Score:3)

    by groobly ( 6155920 ) on Friday January 27, 2023 @12:37PM (#63244945)

    Def. Streamline: Make accomplishing it impossible when the slightest deviation from expectations occurs.

  • When will CA DMV show up for it? :P

  • The Department of Motor Vehicles has never been an agency that screams innovation.

    Together, the three partners are building a DMV-run blockchain that will not only digitize car titles for California drivers, but also seek to streamline title transfers between owners.

    Have you read the news lately? Seen the stories about how people have finally woken up to the fact that blockchain/crypto/nfts are just a scam?

    Yet, you equate it with innovation?

    Seems to me, this is just another example of how behind-the-times DMV's tend to be.

Slashdot Top Deals

Over the shoulder supervision is more a need of the manager than the programming task.

Close