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Salesforce Declares the 9-to-5 Workday Dead, Will Let Some Employees Work Remotely From Now On (theverge.com) 52

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Cloud computing company Salesforce is joining other Silicon Valley tech giants in announcing a substantial shift in how it allows its employees to work. From a report: In a blog post published Tuesday, the company says the "9-to-5 workday is dead" and that it will allow employees to choose one of three categories that dictate how often, if ever, they return to the office once it's safe to do so. Salesforce will also give employees more freedom to choose what their daily schedules look like. The company joins other tech firms like Facebook and Microsoft that have announced permanent work-from-home policies in response to the coronavirus pandemic. "As we enter a new year, we must continue to go forward with agility, creativity and a beginner's mind -- and that includes how we cultivate our culture. An immersive workspace is no longer limited to a desk in our Towers; the 9-to-5 workday is dead; and the employee experience is about more than ping-pong tables and snacks," writes Brent Hyder, Salesforce's chief people officer. "In our always-on, always-connected world, it no longer makes sense to expect employees to work an eight-hour shift and do their jobs successfully," Hyder adds. "Whether you have a global team to manage across time zones, a project-based role that is busier or slower depending on the season, or simply have to balance personal and professional obligations throughout the day, workers need flexibility to be successful."
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Salesforce Declares the 9-to-5 Workday Dead, Will Let Some Employees Work Remotely From Now On More

Salesforce Declares the 9-to-5 Workday Dead, Will Let Some Employees Work Remotely From Now On

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  • 9-5 is dead. Long live 12am - 12am! (Score:4, Funny)

    by im_thatoneguy ( 819432 ) on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @04:58PM (#61048502)

    My first job promised me flexibility. I worked 100 hour weeks leading up to a trade show when I first started but was promised "Don't worry, when the trade show is over you can just take a couple months off." I was paid hourly and was instructed to report time cards that only reflected 40 hours a week, but could then report 40 hours a week after the trade show for a "couple months".

    First time card after the trade show of "working" 40 hour weeks and suddenly HR cared that the hours didn't reflect actual time in the office.

    Flexibility for me not for thee. I would want to see very clear definitions of how my judgement on flex time were being considered. Watch them expect more than 8 hour days for "seasonal" demands and then suddenly "need to find projects to keep you busy" in the off season to fill in at least 8 hours.

    (In the end everything worked out. It was a private/public partnership through my college and they offered pennies on the dollar to settle. I counter offered 6 months worth of class credit for a "Senior Project" or I would sue for the full amount w\ emails backing up my side of the story. It cost them nothing and I saved tens of thousands of dollars in Tuition to graduate half a year early.)

    • but could then report 40 hours a week after the trade show for a "couple months".

      suddenly HR cared that the hours didn't reflect actual time in the office.

      Sounds like fraud to me. But with US labor laws, I can imagine this behavior on part of the employer being perfectly legal.

      • It's illegal a lot of ways. It's illegal to make your employees fill out a 40-hr timecard when they work more than 40, for instance. Even if they had properly allowed him comp time, that's supposed to actually be tracked, not done informally with hours on timecards being inaccurate.

        • California employer here. "Comp time" doesn't exist in my state because of overtime rules. There is a very narrowly defined allowing employees to request what we've called "make up time". It is approved in advance and should be within the same payroll period, or at worst case the following payroll period.

          I'm glad to read the O.P. was able to work something out with the employer - the employer messed up.

          • IIRC, nonexempt employees comp time as a 1:1 replacement isn't legal anywhere in the US because of overtime rules. However, some employers have a 1.5:1 replacement where you are legally earning the money in pay period X (at overtime rates) and getting paid for it in later periods as comp time for accounting reasons. And yes, it's technically an interest free loan to the company, but usually its very short term.

    • I'm really surprised they put any of that in writing because they pretty clearly violated labor laws there. They probably got off cheap not charging you for the tuition because depending on what state you were in, the overtime bill would have been hellacious in and of itself and god only knows what the legal fees would end up being.

      • At time and a half I think they owed me somewhere around $15k-$20k in back pay.

        Even with tuition yeah they probably came out ahead, but that was 6 months less of rent, for me and 6 months earlier I could get a fulltime job at better-than-student wages.

        We were also still in the process of negotiating a resolution a year later when they said that they were closing at the end of that semester. So I was concerned a legal battle would put me in line with creditors.

    • Sure, they talk about flexibility to pick up your kids, but in the article they also talk about the demands of working odd hours to coordinate with global teams. AKA, 12-12 always oncall. Those times picking up your kids are like sleeping - scheduled breaks in your 24-7 work time.

  • This is from my personal experience over the last 10 months. You need to talk to a body with a pulse on the phone and they don't answer it when you call them. The calls go to voicemail the majority of the time leaving you sitting there without an answer to your query. E-mails are just as bad because they can get ignored too easily. This stop your productivity in its tracks because you either can't move forward on your project or you have to stop one aspect of your project and start working on another wh

    • Re:Here's the problem (Score:4, Insightful)

      by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @05:49PM (#61048638)
      On the other hand, how many times have you been interrupted by someone who wants your help for something that they probably could have fixed themselves if they would have bothered to put in a little bit of effort? Sometimes other people have their own things to work on and can't just drop everything to solve another person's problem because it stops productivity in its tracks and they can't move forward on their project or have to stop one aspect of it and start working on another which always takes time.

      As the costs to run a business increase, it just makes it more viable for fresh new businesses that don't have all of the overhead and can focus far more on a product and the customers who want to do business with them. This has played out time and time again. We talk about the behemoths like Apple, Amazon, or Google right now, but the biggest company in the world 3 decades from now is probably still in someone's garage right now.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      exactly this. My company was mostly WFH before the pandemic. Its fine and I like it actually. However, some managers started letting people make their own hours and I HATE HATE HATE that.

      Unless your projects don't involve others it pretty much goes like this:
      1) You are constantly stalled as you describe waiting for other people to do things on your critical path but they wont even start on for hours because they roll out of bed at 11a or whatever.

      2) You adapt to the schedule of the people you are working wi

      • exactly this. My company was mostly WFH before the pandemic. Its fine and I like it actually. However, some managers started letting people make their own hours and I HATE HATE HATE that.

        Same here.

        As for people's hours, they set some "core hours" during which you *must* be more or less available. It's not perfect but it works.

  • I'd be happy remote 101%...forever (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @05:08PM (#61048520) Homepage Journal
    I would be quite happy being WFH full time with never having to go back in the physical office.

    It so happens in my lines of IT, it works...I've been contracting for 8+ years with working from home full time those years....nothing missed.

    I guess some people miss it, as that they actually make friends in the office.

    I don't do that. Don't get me wrong, I'm very sociable, and easy to get along with, but I keep work life separated from personal life.

    I have more than enough real friends that I spend time with (when not in pandemic) doing things in meatspace.

    With work, often those people are transient over time, and while I keep close enough for job connections, etc....they are not my friends that I trust with my confidential information, intimate thoughts, etc.

    I figure time and place...and with work, that is my livelihood and I don't risk personal things with my $$$.

    So, for me, if the work allows me to not step foot in an office, I won't and don't want to.

    I'm not missing out on anything, that's for sure.

    I actually never thought people did think that much the other way....I guess some people think of a job as something more than what you have to do to earn a living and pay for things you actually like and want to do.

    • I feel the same way. But I think most people who want to go back to an office don't have a home office set up.

      My current and previous house dedicated a room as a home office. The previous house was going to be a consulting gig when I got out of the military, but I picked up a gov. contractor position in another state. The current house was going to be continuation of the consulting gig, but I continued as a gov. contractor and now the home office is used for book writing and similar side hustles.

      Most of my

      • I have four bedrooms, three of them filled with beds (as can be reasonably expected). The "office" is shared 2-3 ways which makes conference calls a constant distraction. And of course, not having a spouse or child make demand on you during business hours is a huge help for productivity.

        I will say though, cutting commuting out has given me back 90 minutes of my day. Which of course I immediately re-allocated on cooking more and grocery shopping. c’est la vie
         

    • I would be quite happy being WFH full time with never having to go back in the physical office.

      Sing it, bruthah!

      Same here, I've set foot in my last office, period. The only thing I really miss are the free snacks and office supplies, lol.

  • Remote contracting with random endeavours online in all sorts of creative industries mostly in countries far away from where I live led me to a life of complete disregard for the work week. I really enjoyed this freedom I had and feeling of being in control of my day. The lack of micro management and expectation of being available in "core hours" was a luxury I will forever fight to keep. It led to my only condition of success being seen as the ability to decide when to get up in the morning. For me that's

  • I work for a defense company. We've been primarily working remotely when possible. The only time I go there was when I needed to use the lab. So, I usually code for a few days at home and schedule my lab time so no other co-workers can come in at the same time. We are required to wear a mask AND a face shield if we work within 6 ft of each other. It's been working pretty well so far, and our team's productivity hasn't dropped either (but then the defense company isn't known for high productivity). Our manag

    • Pls tell me how to get a cushy job like that.

      • Pls tell me how to get a cushy job like that.

        It's easy:

        1) Get real good at doing something (this might take a while i.e. 5 to 10 years)

        2) Find someone who will pay you to do that thing

        3) Profit!

        • Haha, I wish. It's never about getting good, it's about knowing the right handshake.

          • Haha, I wish. It's never about getting good, it's about knowing the right handshake.

            Sometimes, but not always. If you have solid, demonstrable skills, your experience may tip the scales in your favor.

            It does for me; I've beaten in-house candidates, candidates with connections, candidates who can spew the buzzword-bullshit like a firehose, and various other competitors. Most of it is in the interview, frankly.

            90% of landing a job is knowing how to interview, because by the time you get to an interview they already *think* you have the skills. What they really want to know is if you're going

    • Do you have to deal with security clearance issues, or is that confined to lab work? I am curious how they can create a WFH SCIF...

  • real estate is expensive you know!

  • 9 to 5 has never been alive for me.
    My first job was 8:30 to 5:00, my second and third 8 to 5, except from around late 2009 through 2010 during the recession, when I worked fom about 8:00 to 4:00 or 4:30 and got paid for a 7 hour day. That is, when I wasn't working overtime.

    • Were you in the US? Because if you work from 8-4:30 and got paid for a 7 hour day, there are legal solutions for that.

      • At my first salary job, my boss told me that lunch doesn't count at time on the job. So I started working 9-6 to get the 8 hour minimum that was required. Leave at 6, get home at 7. Too late to cook dinner, so take out most nights. 20 years later and my blood pressure is terrible from either the stress or the salty restaurant food.

        • Yeah, if someone did that I would just bring a damn sandwich and eat at my desk. Or look up the state law to see if that's true. At least current me would. Younger me, like younger you, would probably have just listened to my boss.

    • My 8 hours run from about 10am to 2pm.

  • Great! Now can we finally ditch DST?!? (Score:3)

    by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @05:40PM (#61048618) Homepage
    For those not in the know: Daylight Saving Time is now more useless than changing a clock twice a year.

  • The reality is, keeping something like 9-5 work hours (maybe you do 10-6 or 8-4 .... whatever) is extremely practical from the standpoint of setting standard expectations for when people know business can be conducted.

    The world of retail sales has created plenty of exceptions to this, but they fail as often as they succeed. I remember when grocery stores in my town all tried to go 24 hours, back in the 1990's. One of the big chain started it so everyone else tried to follow suit. It only took a year or so

    • I think most realized the small number of shoppers really taking advantage of 24 hour operation didn't create enough sales to offset the costs of utilities and labor to stay open all the time.

      Most of the places around me pre-pandemic were 24 hours but you might have to wait a minute for checkout as the overnight shift were primarily just there to stock shelves and perform inventory anyway.

  • As if union v salary doesn't cause enough division, now we'll have remote v nonremote. I'm not against or for th is, just saying there will be unexpected consequences to this when all employees aren't being treated the same way.

  • When we have everyone working remotely it's been great. But after the Covid dust settles some people will want to go back to the office. Some part time and some all the time. Others are going to want to stay remote all the time.

    How is that going to work when you have some people in the office and some not? Will it break down into cliques of "in-office" and "out-of-office? Will the remote workers be branded as slackers? Because, God knows, an office wouldn't be an office without pointless politicing and game

    • Based on personal experience, you will end up with only Type-A folks in the office, and all promotions and bonuses will go to them. Then it becomes an echo chamber, the rest of the people moonlight doing other things, and the company goes to shit. Or, everybody spends at least a day a week in the office and maintains contact, and the company can continue on.

      The only thing I am curious about is how will companies on-board inexperienced people moving forward. Remote stuff works to a degree, but it really h

      • "Based on personal experience, you will end up with only Type-A folks in the office, and all promotions and bonuses will go to them. Then it becomes an echo chamber, the rest of the people moonlight doing other things, and the company goes to shit. Or, everybody spends at least a day a week in the office and maintains contact, and the company can continue on." - Yes that's exactly how I expect it to go. Most of the people clamoring to get back in the office are the "culture champion" types.

        "The only thing I

  • Thanks for recognizing what the rest of us have been saying since about March of last year. Yes, it turns out that a *lot* of shit we used to do in offices can be done from, well, anywhere.

    As a side effect, it turns out there's not as much need for big, expensive offices all over the place as there used to be. And your employees can be anywhere too, they don't have to live within striking distance of the office.

  • It's been replaced by 24/7 availability by smartphone employing people as salaried workers that are expected to work as much as required to get the job done. Which usually means more than 8 hours a day.

  • I've actually never had a 9-5 job since 1996 (if not earlier).
    All my software jobs have been flex time. Ie. I choose when to go and when to leave.

    So working from noon to 8pm or midnight to 8am or whatever.

    I often put in a lot more hours though. But it was always flex.

    I guess Salesforce is finally catching up with the 90s?

  • Are there really still companies that mandate punching in at 9AM sharp and punching out at 5PM sharp? Because I was under the impression it was usually something like, "Core business hours are 10 to 3, be there during those times but otherwise just get your 40 hours a week in."

  • And then everyone started cracking down on remote work because it killed productivity for a lot of people...? Can humanity ever learn something instead of repeating the same things over and over?

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