

Only 25% of Firefox Downloaders Are 'Active Users' 294
bheer writes "The Guardian points out a page on the Mozilla wiki noting that 'only 50% of the people downloading Firefox actually try it out, and only a further half of those continue to use it actively.' ZDNet has some commentary on the browser's retention rate. While a 25% retention rate isn't necessarily bad, Mozilla is trying to improve these figures with a 12 point plan that includes more TV and media advertising, a better start page and several installation tweaks."
Why download? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why download? (Score:5, Insightful)
Back to the average Joe, they do this way more often then us. They get the link to download for whatever reason and download it with good intention, but not everyone installs it. Of those that do install, they try to use it, realize it is too different or whatever and go back to IE without bothering to uninstall... that is not important to them. To them, having 100 programs installed is the same as 1 - they know no better.
If you realize that you, being a slashdot reading computer user, are not the "average computer user" then you may be able to put these numbers into perspective and understand how they came to be.
Re:Why download? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd bet some people are downloading the installer, lose it, and just never bother to find it.
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Fool! If we're going to win this fight, we have to play dirty! You know what that means? Surreptitiously installing Firefox on every machine you can get your hands on, permission be damned! Oh, and remove the IE icon from the desktop. Better yet, make the shortcut to Firefox have the blue "e" as its icon. Actually, I think I did that at some point in the past on my parent's machine.
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My numbers are a bit different. (Score:5, Interesting)
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One big thing they should fix already: I don't care what their reasoning is, the memory "leak" is a problem. It should never swell up and take up over 150MB of RAM. Sure, some computers have RAM to spare -- the average person with a cheap com
plus, do the converted even know? (Score:2)
And I concur: The "leak" needs fixing.
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I'll second (third?) that. This morning, I killed and restarted both firefox and seamonkey on my Mac. They had both grown to over 600 MB since I restarted them about 3 days ago, and the machine had slowed to a crawl. It's fast again now, but I know I'll have to do it again Monday at the latest.
It does seem that, with both of them, it's sites that run videos that seem to cause the biggest permanent jumps in memory size. So it may not be the browsers themselves that are the main pr
Re:My numbers are a bit different. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My numbers are a bit different. (Score:5, Funny)
In bed.
Re:My numbers are a bit different. (Score:5, Funny)
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If the result (25% of the estimated installed base) is below the big websites' statistics of user-agent header, then the result or the estimated installed base is surely inaccurate, because the referer doesn't count all the firefoxes with a doctored user agent header.
I'd say that figuring out the downloads (i get it from apt), and then the "activity" is the wrong approach. Active users by definition visit sites. See sites statistics. Get bottom figure. Find how many firefox use
How do they measure this?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How do they measure this?? (Score:5, Funny)
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I use it on 2 computers without having downloaded it at all (it comes with Slackware) ... nyah nyah nyah!
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Likewise. I have three laptops here, plus a few virtual machines, all of which are different platforms and so required their own Firefox downloads.
But only one of those gets 95% of the use, the others probably appear to be relatively "inactive". In reality it's because those machines are only used for testing in IE, or surfing on the john, or whatever.
Download once, use many (Score:3, Insightful)
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What about the times that people download it once (IT shops) and install it on hundreds of computers(ok not always that many, but enough to mess up these stats)
Wouldn't that boost the numbers of long-term users?
If you have a home computer, and the user downloads firefox and keeps using it, you have a long-term usage ratio of 100% per download.
If a sysadmin downloads a single copy of firefox, installs it on 10 computers, and 3 long-term users develop out of that, you then have a 300% ratio per download. However, you only have a 30% ratio per installation. One download, 10 installs, 3 users.
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What about the people that never download it, but got it as part of their distribution? Do we have to go download it to make it legal?
huh (Score:2)
But apparently if they want wide spread usage - they need to look at people who are not like me.
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I do that all the time. If I search for forftware that may solve a problem, I'll install them just untill one of them really solves it, never using the remaining.
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This is what normally happends. (Score:5, Funny)
Geek B fixes it and puts firefox to help them out.
Geek B tells them to use Firefox so their computer doesn't mess up.
Person A Ignores Geek B advice because what does he know he only fixes computers.
Person A Computer gets really messed up.
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Yeah I see that. One of the things I do to reduce it is to point the IE icon on the desktop and tool bar at Firefox. Some of them never even notice.
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2. Computers' inner workings are more accessible to lay people since they're exposed to more configuration, etc. They're trained to tweak things since most applications require tweaking. Once you learn how to get under the hood of your car and start diagnosing it yourself, of course you will begin to question expert
Twelve Step Plan (Score:5, Funny)
2. Came to believe that a browser greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Firefox as we understood Him.
4. Made a google search and fearless moral inventory of bloat.
5. Admitted to Firefox, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our standards breaking.
6. Were entirely ready to have Firefox remove all these defects of browser.
7. Humbly asked Firefox to remove our security vulnerabilities.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly installed a patch for it.
11. Sought through addons and extensions to improve our conscious contact with Firefox, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the plugins to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to IE-aholics, and to practice these principles in all our browsing.
Re:Twelve Step Plan (Score:4, Funny)
14. PROFIT!
Alright! (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, being a good F/OSS geek, I went up online to find out WTF the problem was. Well, there was this series of directions to follow. I followed them to the tee. Still nothing. Then I saw a post about my "Firewall" being the problem. Well, I turned it off - no change. BUT, when I was logged in as an Admin, no problem. Interesting. The Firefox folks were insistent that it's my firewall.
So, I went in and gave the Mozilla directory full access rights (this is in Windows XP) and everything is working now.
So, is Firefox on my machine secure?
Would the typical user have to deal with this security problem with IE - (NO)?
How many of you are going to call me or imply that I'm an idiot for not being able to use Firefox correctly?
Users want to know.
Re:Alright! (Score:4, Insightful)
Those who don't login as an administrator either know what they're doing (and therefore have the skills to understand the problem), or they're a large enough business that their IT department should be familiar with problems like this. Firefox is hardly the only program that expects to be able to write to it's program directory, which isn't allowed by normal users.
Now, logically, since you are a technical user, and set your primary account as a normal user, you should know that normal users can't write to %ProgramFiles%. Therefore when you attempt to run an update, that you know damn well requires writing files out to %ProgramFiles%, you shouldn't be surprised to see problems or errors.
Instead of giving your normal user account full access to the program directory, you should maintain security and install updates after logging in as an administrator. The normal user can see when an update is available, which gives you the push to login as an administrator and install it, but obviously the normal user shouldn't be able to do it.
That everyone pointed to every other problem under the sun instead of this illustrates the overwhelming number of Windows users who run as administrator. I've got a couple dozen programs installed that refuse to run if the logged in account isn't an administrator. At least Firefox manages functions just fine for everything except program updates.
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Stop it, please! (Score:2)
These snide comments towards MS don't help.
Seems fallacious (Score:2)
Note that Active Daily Users is an estimate of the number of users who are using Firefox on a daily basis.
And well, i couldn't find much else on their statistics. What does 'try it out' even mean? They have solid numbers on how many are downloaded, but I'm interested in how exactly they're coming up with these statistics. Does firefox report to them when it's being used? I don't think so... number of people downloading the upgrades? Maybe...
I know I've downloaded it several times for various co
In other news (Score:3, Funny)
Wrong statistics indeed. (Score:2)
Not unusual (Score:5, Interesting)
How many CC bounces do you get? (Score:3, Interesting)
this does seem low... (Score:2)
It would be interesting to see what the figures are for site visit stats and how that's grown, say for Google or similar. I imagine the Guardian's stats are now skewed by lots of Firefox users navigating to the article.
I have some concerns about the 12 point plan. As a non-pro
Probably right (Score:2)
I try to use FF, but if I have a complaint, it is not the memory thing (got lots of that), but it is that often FF just seems to stops loading pages and I have to rest
2.0.0.6 has started to hang (Score:2)
FireFox is going to lose people if they don't focus on bug fixes and avoid the temptation of feature creep.
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They always stick with IE...all those horrendous toolbars and crap addons they install don't work in FF...even if they are completely useless, or worse even...some people just can't go without!!!
Got one friend that's completely hooked on IncrediMail (bloated POS btw, totally in the 'Ohh, Shiney!' camp). Always having problems with it. Endlessly. Every Single Time I'm There I show her her gmail account again...she uses it once...and then back to Incred
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Your time to them is free.
Only when it hurt the pocketbook will they start changing.
Why shouldn't computer mechanics get paid?
Car mechanics get their friends to pay them to fix their cars.
If the car mechanics tell their friends: "stop speeding over speed-bumps", would the friends listen?
You bet! it cost them money!
Face it. You are being used!!
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Case in point: My 'IncrediMail' friend. I drop by for a visit once every couple of mo
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I see that too with Firefox. After a while (sometimes as little as a day), I'll click links and nothing will happen - the wheel will spin for half a second but it clearly isn't trying to load anythin
This is SO ironic!!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems that Mozilla is "finally get it", and in the process, going against some of the things that the OSS community generally detests. I'll comment on their 12-step program (just the ones i find interesting):
1. Change Firefox icon label to closer resemble action of getting to web
Wow! They finally realized that the name "Firefox" doesn't make ANY connection to the internet for standard users.
2.
100% are active lusers! (Score:2)
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I'm not surprised. (Score:2, Informative)
If these are the kind of people they're losing, I'm not all that upset about it. Too many people assume that their homepage is part of their browser. I tried to explain to him that yahoo only opened up as default on IE because it was set to be his homepage and that I could do the same thing with Firefox. He then made up some excuse that he's fine with IE and doesn't
Stupid is hereditary, you get it from your kids (Score:3, Interesting)
But yes, I agree, people are reluctant to change. I recently had to deal with a non-geeks computer... *pauzes while the slashdot audience groans ssympathetically* who kept installing crap software including spyware, trojans etc etc. The guy is also poor so his old computer grinds to a halt pretty damn fast whenever he installed the latest crap again. Offcourse he uses IE and was extremely reluctant to change. He was used to IE and that was what he used and therefore was going to use.
The cure? Well A: I tol
The way I see it... (Score:2, Interesting)
I downloaded....Where??? (Score:2)
I've used FireFox exclusively for years, and I still run into machines with even the new browser that don't tell you where the f@ck the file went.
My 12-Step Retention Plan (Score:5, Funny)
1. Change Firefox icon label to closer resemble action of getting to web. No longer shall the icon on the desktop be called "Mozilla Firefox", but instead, "U CAN HAZ INTRN3T".
2. Force the Firefox icon to easier to find location. <img src="firefox.png" alt="U CAN HAZ INTRN3T" height="768" width="1024"
3. Alter the default browser settings path for better user choice. Embed an audio file of Arnold Schwarzenegger saying, "Use Firefox! Use it now!" into the IE startup path.
4. Major outbound brand marketing program driving brand recognition and differentiation. A full page NY Times ad with the "Walkthrough Cat" [granades.com], its text changed to "GIT UR INTERN3T ON".
5. Improve download page and first run pages. Download page must be similar to NY Times ad, so the imbeciles we're trying to reach can actually remember wtf they're downloading. The first run page must have "HAI! U GOT INTRN3T!!" in large letters, preferably with blink tags and links to pron.
6. Launch support.mozilla.com SUMO [mozilla.org] If Firefox sees another bloated browser installed on the computer, it will challenge it to a wrestling match, the winner becoming the new default browser. A small side-effect may be a userbase increase in the Asian market.
7. Make common plug-ins work out of the box. The MegaRotic Toolbar will now be part of the initial install, as will an RSS feed of Digg.com.
8. Make add-ons and personas more accessible. The Mozilla Store will now ship free wizard hats and robes with every Firefox download.
9. Make the web feel more human. Male users will find their browser displaying all text in capital letters approximately once every twenty-eight days. Female users will find their browser doesn't remember their user preferences or date of birth form fields.
10. Improve messaging through communication channels. We will also improve messaging through non-communication channels. Yes, our code monkeys are that good. 11. Stickier start page. If you left-click anywhere on the new start page, it will take three right-clicks to get your cursor to move again.
12. Change Firefox icon image to closer resemble action of getting to web. In keeping with steps 1 and 7, the new icon will show Ceiling Cat, as we all know what most of our users will be doing on the internet.
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I don't get it.... (Score:2)
I know there are a lot of viruses/trojans that install as browser helper objects and thus only affect IE users. I suspect some of these probably revert the default browser back to IE.
Personally, I can't stand IE. But then, I never bothered to upgrade to 7.0. I find the abi
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They switch to IE to use that site.
IE says IE isn't your default browser. Make IE your default browser.
Click Ok.....
Mom, Pop and Girlfriend Effect (Score:3, Interesting)
The only other scenario I can think of is that there are a lot of web developers out there who are still trying to get it to work in IE.
Pay-for-install (Score:2)
Bundle (Score:3, Interesting)
The key is to bundle it together. Have Firefox pre-installed on computers. Make is hassle-free for the user. Make it a no-brainer. Dell installing GooglePack (which includes Firefox) on every PC they ship - that's a start. Yahoo messenger downloads should bundle Firefox (side note - this can be installed as an opt-in or opt-out component. While opt-in i.e. checkbox unchecked by default is a more "considerate" option, opt-out is better if you want to increase downloads) In any case, hyperlinks from Yahoo messenger chat windows should open in Firefox windows if FF is installed. Ditto with Trillian.
Yes, this is a sort of militant technique (the same technique that MS used to make IE a monopoly). But let's face it - it's not the geeks but the users who don't know about FF that need FF most because they are most vulnerable to the security cracks in IE.
Some other things they can do: bundle the most useful extensions with the product (Map This, AdBlock, Fetch text URL, DictionarySearch, BugMeNot, SearchPluginHacks), reduce the memory it hogs, interactive tutorial. They need to get out of the "of the geeks, by the geeks, for the geeks" mentality.
We can add about another 1000 users to that list (Score:2)
In my experience... (Score:2)
I spent a long night cleaning thousands of pieces of spyware off this user's workstation. Installed Firefox. The next day I showed him how to use FF. Explained that his spyware problem would be greatly minimized by using FF instead of IE. User agreed to stay the hell away from IE. One week later I'
I'd be happy if... (Score:2)
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But, when your competition is Java, especially older applications with all that CDE goodlieness (they look *great* on Vista)....
And Safari on Window
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The only place where it really looks native is on Linux/BSD/Unix running Gnome.
But I thought nothing looks native on Linux ;)
Seriously though, FF on XP does a pretty good job of integrating into the OS, things can get a little strange with different themes but the default one matches luna pretty well. The options menu probably strays farthest from looking windows-like but even that is pretty close to what you'd expect to see. On Linux, well we're pretty much used to every program doing its own thing already; just the nature of OSS I suppose.
Re:That's still a lot (Score:5, Interesting)
When you click a link in an MSN conversation, it opens in IE regardless of what your preferred browser setting is. Most people that I know begin their web browsing by clicking on the MSN link to open Hotmail, and they get IE. When that changes those numbers will look better. I'm afraid it will take a court ruling to change that though.
Re:That's still a lot (Score:4, Informative)
MSN Messenger uses IE when it needs to past things through HTTP POST, eg. to authenticate you as Curtman123@hotmail.com to MSN Spaces. This is necessary because there's no real standard way to pass HTTP POST to the default browser over the command line. I think some other clients have got around this in the past by making a temporary HTML file, having code to send the HTTP POST and then opening that in the default browser. For links in MSN messages, I find they all go the default browser.
Re:That's still a lot (Score:5, Informative)
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There are some problems with Camino, though, such as Camino having slower release cycles and always being behind the Firefox team.
Camino is not behind. You can download Camino nightlies just like you can download FF nightlies. Both are based on the same code.
The Camino guys just have higher quality standards. IMHO Camino alpha releases are often so good that they could be called final releases.
So, diverting efforts towards the Camino fork
Camino is no fork.
the core issue which is too many unaddressed Mac Firefox bugs. We want a better Firefox, not a neglected Firefox, for OS X.
You won't get it. Live with it. Windows is the top priority for the Mozilla Corp. guys.
The one guy hired by MoCo to work on FF for Mac is currently not working to improve the Mac experience. No, he's working on not sucking e
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Re:That's still a lot (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That's still a lot (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about what the internet was like in 2002, when Mozilla 1.0 was first released. We encountered IE-only sites daily, Safari didn't exist, and MSIE definitively dominated the web landscape. Anyone complaining to a bank or power company about a Mozilla problem just claimed to be using Netscape -- the Gecko browser people had actually heard of -- and rarely got anywhere. Those of us using Mozilla preferred it for a variety of reasons, and hoped for wider adoption so that our preferred browser would receive acceptable support from webmasters.
Today, Firefox is a decidedly mainstream browser, listed on most "supported browser" lists, and Firefox-only sites are about as common now as the remaining IE-only sites. Do we need more adoption? If Firefox is serving its existing users well, is it worth the cost of an advertising blitz to capture a few more?
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I don't think i've ever run into a firefox only site.
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Re:That's still a lot (Score:5, Funny)
Lynx supports a tag of the form <tab indent="90" id="t1"> and then later you can set up a pseudo-table using <tab to="t1"> or arbitrary tabs.
Obviously this would only work with a fixed-width font anyway.
hmm... the Lynx documentation says that the tab tag is from HTML 3.0.
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http://www.openaddict.com/ie_reject.html [openaddict.com]
http://www.devin.com/ie_reject.shtml [devin.com]
http://www.findsimon.com/ie_reject.html [findsimon.com]
http://www.trojanpony.co.uk/ie_reject.html [trojanpony.co.uk]
http://doli.ic.cz/ie_reject.php [doli.ic.cz]
Just to name a few.
Eddie
Re:That's still a lot (Score:5, Interesting)
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For those 0.005% who are confused, the first thing I downloaded for FF was the User Agent Switcher [mozilla.org] and my browser pretends to be IE all of the time while actually being the firefunk!
Cheers!
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a) Rarely if ever needed anymore. (For IE only sites, spoofing probably won't make that ActiveX control work anyways)
and b) The day where most FF users were that technically inclined have passed. Average joe's using FF would have no idea that could even be done. (Or care...see a )
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The Vista Hardware Compatibility List [microsoft.com] claims to need IE6 or later; apart from some minor rendering issues, it worked fine with spoofed Firefox. (What kind of moron would make a list IE-only, anyway??)
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I think the problem with Firebox adoption is similar to office with a few things missing. FF is the we have it all and all the good tool, toy, and abilities to keep a lot of the junk
nah, it's all about the PORTAL (Score:2)
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And for pure image viewing, it's immediately obvious how to scale to full size.
FF does a very good job at this feature without having it impact the user negatively.
Opera troll (Score:4, Insightful)
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The plugin gripe is point 7 of the 12-point plan:
7. Make common plug-ins work out of the box
Isn't the purpose of giving users non-admin accounts on computers, though, to prevent them from doing things such as installing unauthorized applications? Anyway, if you want to run Firefox on a machine without authorization, just use Portable Firefox [portableapps.com]. If you want to install applications on your own computer, I would expect you would login as an admin.
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I can't speak for everyone, but the only times I've had to advise my users to go back to IE is due to several government agencies having web sites that require it.
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Something about code well-written enough not to care about the OS seems to make the code more robust...
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