Microsoft leaks Zune Details in FCC filing 274
cnet-declan writes "One of my colleagues at CNET News.com has picked up on a filing that Microsoft made yesterday with the FCC. Our article reports that Microsoft's Zune media player (the iPod rival discussed before on Slashdot) is going to have features such as creating mobile social networks and streaming music to nearby friends or strangers. It's going to support the 802.11b and 802.11g wireless standards, have a 30GB hard drive, support music, movies, and photos, and have a 3-inch screen. Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?"
I may want one of these after all (Score:5, Funny)
Or maybe someone can figure out how to broadcast images to all nearby Zunes with a linux app, so when I drive down the street or ride the train with my laptop I could flood all the nearby Zunes with goatse images. "Awww look someone is sending me a cute puppy picture....augggghhhhh"
Re:I may want one of these after all (Score:4, Funny)
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ipods are fantastic products. they do what people want them to do (note "people" != "ogg-lovin' linux geeks") and do it with style and simplicity.
stop ragging on something just because it's popular. it doesn't make you cool.
the world would be a lot better place for customers if all companies had as much pride in their products as apple.
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Great rep in hardware? (Score:2)
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If by wicked, you mean a brick that plays music. It reminds me of the third-generation iPod from a few years ago, but with a false "wheel." So it's a falsely advertising brick.
As for Microsoft hardware, I'd like to direct your attention to the most useless key ever invented in the history of computing--the Windows key. Bane to full-screen gamers the world over, failed abortion of the Apple key, never-used in any applications...the W
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a) have some spastic inability to control what keys you press, or
b) are simply ignorant of how to use the Windows key
Re:I may want one of these after all (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows differs from my setup (which is clearly perfect) in a few ways. First, it uses alt-tab, whereas I use mod4+tab for consistency (and my keyboard's two meta keys are each bigger than its one alt key anyhow). Second, it brings up the Start menu when you tap the Windows key, which is the part that's pure evil. IMHO modifier keys should strictly be modifier keys. This also goes for alt (compare, say, GTK+'s alt behavior with that of most Win32 programs).
But the overriding point is that Microsoft hardware doesn't really have much to do with the Windows key. Unix vendors and also Apple have had similar keys long before Microsoft introduced theirs (though Apple's key is also the primary key used for app bindings). And IMO its failings have entirely to do with software. If you want to disable it in Windows there's a registry hack to do that, which can be found by searching the wb if you're lucky.
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I must say, I've heard Microsoft called evil for all kinds of things (i.e. business practices, shoddy software, clubbing baby seals) but I've never heard them called out for a button on a keyboard. Nice work :)
Re:I may want one of these after all (Score:4, Informative)
Windows + M -> Minimize all
Windows + Shift + M -> unminimize all
Windows + R -> Run Dialog
Windows + F -> Search Dialog
Wouldn't call it a useless key.
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> joysticks, mice and keyboards are concerned.
Me, I would. I run Linux as my primary OS (XP gets booted every few weeks), but I swear by MS optical mice, particularly the V3 Optical and the generic Intellimouse Optical. They have fantastic scan rates so they're very good for games, There are quite a few pro gamers that use the Intellimouse.
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yeah but (Score:2)
Microsoft is Fighting the Last War (Score:5, Interesting)
That's what Microsoft is doing here. This might have been enough to defeat the Video iPod, but that was the last device. This will - at most - be on par with Apple's new offering, and probably beat by it. It looks like Apple's new iPod will have an even bigger screen than this, by moving the touchpad to the back. That plus WiFi will probably be enough to keep this at bay, not to mention any other extra features Apple might add.
Overall, there is no clear "killer app" that makes me think this will be successful. The Zune looks fully competent, but you need more than competence to defeat a de facto standard. I don't know about you, but the prospect of being able to borrow a song from a friend for a day before it is cancelled provided we are both using Zunes doesn't get me very excited. Nor do I have any desire to beam random files to strangers. The ability to work with social networks might be cool but there are no details on that, and I'm not going to get my hopes up.
There is of course an easier way to defeat a de facto standard - beat them on price. If this were offered for a very low price, for example $150 or $200 for a 30GB model, they would steal a lot of market share from Apple and make up the money with future models once people warmed to their product. That's why companies call them "entry models." But they are charging $300 for this, so there is no monetary reason for anybody to take a "step down" from the iPod, which is the way any non-iPod device is currently perceived, fair or not.
No way I want one of these (Score:3, Interesting)
With the way Micro$oft sets defaults on security issues, these things will be shipped wide open. Your music will be interrupted by "Drive-by" spam. Every major box store will be streaming commercials to these poor wretches.
And when the script kiddies get a hold of it, millions of portable zombie-bots! Blue screen of dea
M$ version of sharing has not changed. (Score:3, Interesting)
with my laptop I could flood all the nearby Zunes with goatse images.
I doubt you will be able to send anything to them or that they will be able to send anything to anyone else. The last hype article noticed that content "shared" between devices would disappear in a day or two. Getting around that would be a DMCA violation, M$ would happily punish you for. You can bet this device will use a "new and improved" Windoze Media format that will take all sorts of time to figure out and ultimately not be wo
Among other features... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Among other features... (Score:5, Funny)
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You joke, but to me, a keyboard sounds like a damn good idea.
Why Stop There? (Score:5, Funny)
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*Under normal** operating conditions.
**Streaming content, creating social networks, using wireless connectivity, playing video content, using software equalizer, browsing music library, operating backlight, playing audio content, or using device while not connected to external DC power supply may substantially reduce expected battery life.
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Oh, wait, then it would be like my Treo running Palm OS. Never mind......
Heck No (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent underrated!!! (Score:2)
-nB
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the difference between an ipod and a dvd player, for example, is that a dvd player has fixed specifications, i.e. "play dvds", and dvd players built 5 years apart do this pretty much exactly the same.
music players are composed of many hi-tech components (TFTs, small hard drives) which tend to improve in quality rather than decrease in price. the 5G ipod costs about the same as a 1G ipod but with better
the hype more of a killer than an ms mp3 player (Score:2)
i mean, has any other MP3 player gotten this much press coverage as a direct competitor to the ipod?
missing the social point (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been at Microsoft, I've worked at Microsoft. This Zune may be the hit of the century on Microsoft campus. Too bad that won't be enough to sustain a profitable market for the Zune.
I have visions of geeks, sitting around the room, typing furiously at their keyboards, IM'ing with each other, in the same frigging room! Because they can!
And now, I envision those same people, sitting around with wireless mp3 (not) players, sharing each other's music wirelessly, because they can! That's not how it works for the general population. The distance to which these devices can communicate as peers limits their usefulness as social devices, i.e., the people are all going to be in the same room! I.E., they can plug their iPods into the stereo. And, at the same time will be able to talk to each other.
Apple got it right (even though it's not for me) with iTunes and the iPod. Clever marketing, sexy device (the Zune's not looking so sexy to me), and lots of social advertising. The iPod is the thing. The Zune isn't nor will it be.
The only distinguishing feature of the Zune is its wireless capability. How many of you have ever had non-stop continuous hassle free wireless experiences? I mean non-stop as in music streaming... I use it all the time with Squeezebox with the wink and nod that I will get a hiccup now and then. But, for a device that's moving?, a device that's likely to be hugely underpowered to support signal, especially transmission?. Wireless: a distinguishing feature, but a problematic one.
Looking at the company info on Microsoft, I'm guessing there'll be sales of about 60,000 Zunes.
Re:missing the social point (Score:5, Insightful)
Also it should be marketed to people who workout in gyms. Many of those people are carrying iPods or whatever, and they're all in basically the same room for about an hour.
Then it can't be crippled with pointless DRM (you should be able to share any song). Fat chance of that, though.
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Re:missing the social point (Score:5, Interesting)
Who, for the vast majority, never ever utter a single word to their fellow commuters unless they're friends already. It's a sad fact that a universal constant on buses, trains, tubes, and metros the world over is everyone travelling in deathly silence from the moment they board until the moment they alight at their destination.
If Microsoft can make people strike up conversations with the strangers around them they don't deserve a business success with the Zune, they deserve the next 100 Nobel Peace Prizes.
Social Networking (Score:2, Funny)
If Microsoft can make people strike up conversations with the strangers around them they don't deserve a business success with the Zune, they deserve the next 100 Nobel Peace Prizes.
You can't see the looming hubbub? Some lurker around a school yard, posing as a 13 year old, beaming Michael Jackson tunes to children .. luring one into near the bushes. Then the local parents groups and sheriff's departments and everyone else gets into wanting to monitor or restrict these things, yada yada yada.
It's not
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It's not a problem until the first time it happens.
Good point, this has been a tremendous problem with the Nintendo DS...oh wait, no it hasn't.
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Pfft, that's the universal condition. The universal condition is violated under one of three conditions:
- Money (incl. employment/trade)
- Drugs (incl. Alcohol)
- Religion
No, I didn't forget sex. That falls under one of the above. In incredibly rare situations, the universal condition may be violat
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If there's one thing Microsoft know how to do, it's advertise the crap out of people. In the UK, when they launched their search engine, the advert was on in EVERY single break. Prepare to have this rammed down your throat for the next year or so.
As well as making appearances in TV shows, remember Will and Grace?
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I too predict limited appeal for these devices at least outside of Japan. The Japanese tend to be into talking to each other with devices but people in the Americas and Europe like to socialize the old fashioned way.
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I dunno, sounds like a nice device to use in a cube farm. I know I wish the guy next to me would just use IM to talk to the secretary, instead of yelling out "HEY, GLADYS, WHERE'S THE 3-HOLE PUNCHED PAPE
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The distance to which these devices can communicate as peers limits their usefulness as social devices, i.e., the people are all going to be in the same room!
I cite as a counterexample the sheer number of times I've seen preteen and/or early teen girls talking to each other via cell phones when they are sitting across from each other at restaurants, texting each other from across the movie theater, etc.
I'm not saying its a useful feature, but if it works at all, I'd imagine some people will find a way
Itunes baby Itunes not hardware (Score:3, Insightful)
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No. The artificial reliance on iTunes is the iPod's biggest drawback. See, I can state opinions as fact too!
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It's marketing, there is no such thing as a 'fact'. Everything is opinion. Settle down.
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Given the fact MS and MTV teamed up on the Surge music store (actually pretty nice) and Surge is the default setting on the upcoming Media Player 11, I think its pretty safe the Surge will be the default media source for the Zune. Of course any source which plugs into Media Player will be an option if you prefer one of them (Napster, etc). Of course iTunes won't work I'm sure as using MS DRM is one of the requirements for that integ
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I type itunes.com in my browser, I get the Apple iTunes store.
I type surge.com, I get Coca Cola.
At this point, I've lost interest in 'Surge'.
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Of course PC users have Windows Media Player, RealPlayer and other services to choose from. The difference is that Microsoft's option, oddly enough, offers more options when it comes to music stores. You can use Napster, Rhapsody, Surge, Wal-Mart's music store and others.
I don't own an iPod, so I'd be more likely to buy a "Zune" because I'm not going to be limited to iTunes o
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Is this finally enough to unseat Apple? (Score:5, Funny)
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price (Score:2, Insightful)
not for me... i would also like a large price cut, please
let's say 1/3 of ipod price mhmm?
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ugh... (Score:2)
They just don't learn (Score:2)
Let the electronic infection orgy begin!
no thanks (Score:2, Interesting)
because someone sent me a virus masquerading as an audio file.
I'm assuming of course that this MS device will be running MS software, and be subject to all the
nasty goodies that windows brings home from the network.
I can just see the TV Ads.. (Score:5, Funny)
Steve Balmer in silhouette with a glowing cord doing his monkey dance.
Re:I can just see the TV Ads.. (Score:5, Funny)
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Geez, who throws chairs while doing a monkey dance? Everybody knows you're supposed to throw your own feces.
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Perhaps not as social as the summary suggests. (Score:5, Interesting)
"Microsoft's Zune media player is going to have features such as creating mobile social networks and streaming music to nearby friends or strangers"
I thought, how on earth will MS get away with allowing people to share music with one another, given the way they've bowed to industry pressure regarding HDCP on 32-bit Vista? Then I read the article, which only mentions "promotional copies of songs, albums and playlists,". This is hardly the same thing as unfettered sharing, and seems pretty limiting... practically pointless, IMHO.
Try "anti-social" (Score:4, Interesting)
I see a new business, though: Set up a wifi base with a fair amount of power. Send ads to everybody who passes with a Zune. Yeah, I can see it already. No, that doesn't make me want a Zune over an iPod. I get enough advertising in my day already, thanks.
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But wait, don't order now, there's more!
Instead of the old fashioned way of shoving the music down tubes the Wizards/Witches of Redmond (follow the black asphalt road) have figured out a way to distribute the music in buckets carrie
Nothing can 'unseat Apple' in the near term (Score:2)
More space than a Nomad (Score:4, Funny)
Sorry, still lame
Sharing with... (Score:2)
I doubt this will unseat Apple (Score:2, Funny)
"Is this finally enough to unseat Apple?" (Score:3, Interesting)
Along another train of thought... I guess this is what the MS patent posted earlier today is all about... controlling who uses up the bandwidth on your device when social networking.
Thinking along these lines... what MS REALLY needs to do is to create a way for the devices to share music with each other; first 30 secs are free... if someone wants to copy the entire song over, MS bills their credit card, and the person gets a DRMed copy of the song locked to their device.
Potential for major copyright infringement? (Score:5, Insightful)
First thing I think of when I see wireless networking with the ability to share things with others is "What kinda stuff do they have that I want, and can get without having to pay for it?"
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Big Omission (Score:4, Funny)
There comes point where ubiquitous undercuts cool (Score:2)
Even Jobs knows this, which is why he's trying to milk the iPod for all it's worth while
Unseat? No. (Score:2)
Unseat Apple? No. It's too much, too complex.. (Score:2)
and weigh? (Score:4, Funny)
And with a standard battery it will last 6 minutes so you can get in one complete song.
One song? (Score:2)
Wireless? Colour me afraid (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like a recipe for viruses and malware to me. How about people setting broadcast hotspots to spew advertisement at your device should it become popular?
wireless wireless wireless (Score:2)
My current desire for a portable music player is fairly weak - it is a nice luxury, but I can live without it. However, I do have a scenario in which I would definitely want one: with wifi integrated into the player and Airport Express compatibility. I would use the player as a regular portable device, especially in the car, but when I got hom
Hope they do well (Score:5, Funny)
Apple has a secret. (Score:5, Insightful)
The second ipod does music and videos. Not all the codecs mind you, but what percentage of regular users know what a codec is? They just know the icons with play buttons on them aren't just big pictures, they are videos and should play when clicked. The competition now steps it up a notch and does audio, video, fm recording (and broadcasting), usb mass storage, touch screens, vga screens, bluetooth, etc. But of those things, usrs only know what they know... so most of the features go unused. Users do know ipods do video though...
The next ipod incarnation will add another feature. It will be a feature people actually want / need / will use. Perhaps it's wireless sync with their home pc (with included iWiFiDock). Other toys *ahem* mp3 players will continue to blossom with features, but most people will not care.
Microsoft's new DAP/DVP/social networking toys will surely get some people interested, but really, who sits in a room full of strangers now and actively looks around for people to meet and talk to, speaking to 6 or 8 at a time? Is that going to be a selling point to someone who doesn't even understand how that technology works, why they would want to do it and what kind of other people would be doing the same thing? Besides a singles party or a high school, who will whip this device out to bandaid their social ineptness?
Don't get me wrong, if I had one I'd try it out, but I will never pay money for one. My VGA pocket pc with 8GB flash card plays full screen video for several hours in virtually all formats, about every audio format, and it has games on it so I can keep myself entertained when I'm with the in-laws.
And just so everyone knows, I do not like ipods. I despise them. And I actually do use features like bluetooth and fm record. My favorite DVP/DAP player at the moment (on paper) is the IUBI from Korea [iubi.co.kr]. XVID, touch screen and a big HDD. It looks simple, isn't to big, and it has a lot of features. If I could just figure out how to get one shipped to the US that would be great.
I'll consider it... (Score:2)
802.11b (Score:3, Interesting)
Why support the now quite obsolete 802.11b standard, unless that support isn't already automatically incorporated into the 802.11g standard? Are there tons of 802.11b standard MP3 players already running around out there that Zune needs to be compatible with?
And if 802.11b standard support is part of the 802.11g standard, then why bother to mention it separately?
And if you don't enable WAP on your connection, will the RIAA sue you for filesharing un-DRMed music?
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There is no particular reason to use 802.11 anything unless you want it to be able to connect to things beyond other zunes wirelessly. And there are plenty of 802.11b-only access points and computers out there.
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802.llx is pretty much backwards compatible, but b offers more bandwidth than a. So they went with the most common "high" bandwidth standard.
Personally (Score:2)
The wireless thing is a definite plus though. I listen to my ipod as I walk to and from work, and it mainly lives in my laptop bag. My itunes gets my podcasts, but I keep on forgetting to synch, or forgetting to put it back in my bag afterwards - annoying.
If the Zune can synch wirelessly, or just connect to my Wifi direc
No. (Score:2)
Nope. iPods aren't sold just on functionality, or even mostly for that reason. They are sold because they're cool. Apple is cool, Steve Jobs is cool
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stream to nearby strangers (Score:2)
sell at a loss, pay vendors to push it like WinCE (Score:3, Insightful)
When you pay vendors to push your product with the cash Microsoft dumps on them, they can't afford to NOT 'sell' MS Zune. That also means that they can not afford to sell any other product like it either. Vendors can get 'hooked' on those marketing dollars and when they try to sell say a Linux device or Apple device, they learn how tough the MSFT habit has them hooked. IMO.
So the game has been played out before and it's the same 'nobody wins except the MS Windows monopoly' kind of ending. The only question I see is will it take 5 or 8 years?
LoB
Steve Bal... uhhh.. Barney's take on this. (Score:2)
Zune Zooney
I can send my songs to me
With a great big brick
It's bigger than my shoe
Won't you say you want a Zune?
Think XBox (Score:4, Interesting)
As regards iPod - personally, I carry a Pocket PC - it basically matches the specs of the Zune (except I have an SD card instead of a 30GB hard drive). It is my music player (mp3s and downloaded Yahoo Music WMAs), my PDA, my portable gaming machine and my mobile internet appliance. And I have had it for 2 years now. Battery life is phenomenal (I easily get a week on a charge). Now, that said, I bought iPod Nanos for my kids. They are the cool thing to have right now. However, cool with the younger set is a fleeting thing
Leechers... (Score:2)
Ungainly (Score:2)
I'm not being an Apple fanboy here (no, I don't own an iPod), but Zune could be the most ungainly personal device of all time.
It's too big. The idea of switching the wireless on and off is comical. So, for that matter, is the reported way client Zunes must break a streaming connection with its DJ host. How could these get out of development?.
Apple's devices got better with time. Perhaps the Zune will follow suit.
Hmmm, interesting ....... (Score:3, Funny)
I think you're onto something!
oh, really fool? (Score:2, Interesting)
A device only needs to do one thing well in order for it to be accepted. Just like the wizard on Sienfeld. It's a "tip calculatior", "but it does other things". My customer bart has a computer, just becuase he wants to email his sister. Thats it. He had no inte
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