"As your attorney, I advise you to take a hit out of the little brown bottle in my shaving kit. You won't need much, just a tiny taste." -- Dr. Gonzo

People really have no idea about how big a business farming really is and how dependent it is on clean cheap water and sunshine. These people are talking about hydroponics. With the LED's they can grow any plant they want, any time of the year. As far as number of workers; they can ship whole plants to factories to be processed if really needed. But I have seen the trend in grocery stores where with compact plants they sell them with the root ball still intact.

Further since they are so compact and use less water in growing they can afford to desalinate and recycle their water and chemical nutrients. And AI is sufficient enough to create robot harvesters and pruners over the next 20 years. But the issue here is the buildings. These are not standard reusable buildings. They are three dimensional warehouses. Building laws will need to get changed. Lots of industrial elevators and very few offices and windows.

But the interesting thing is that should there be a nuclear holocaust in the future these building will be able to keep humans species going.

Problem is you can only use it once.

So you think going
Analog->Digital ->Analog->Mechanical->Plastic->Mechanical->Analog->Amplifier->Speaker
is simpler than going
Analog->Digital ->Amplifier->Speaker??

That was my point. Another part of my point is that I want it to be more fair. Do you, or are you content with leaving injustice there as long as you're comfortable with it?

I certainly do want society to be more fair, which is why I help people whenever I can. What I object to is trying to use government to make society "more fair" because that is destined to fail. If you want to improve society, you need to do it through voluntary, private transactions, not through the jackboot of government.

They found that resumes sent with names that look like they belong to white males got responses more often than ones with female-looking or black-looking names. That is not equality of opportunity.

Even if those studies meant what you think they mean, so what? Decades ago, 90% of companies wouldn't hire me because I was a homosexual. Then they wouldn't hire me because I was an immigrant. These days, 90% of Silicon Valley companies won't hire me because I'm a conservative-leaning libertarian. Many minority and women owned businesses wouldn't hire me because I'm a white male. What does it matter? Equality of opportunity doesn't mean that every private business in the world needs to treat everybody exactly the same. And using government to try to force that outcome is incredibly harmful.

And if you're concerned that racial discrimination is so massive that there is a pool of skilled people who can't get a job simply because of their skin color, then you don't need to run to lawmakers in order to fix it, you can fix that problem by yourself and make a tidy profit in the process: hire them.

Someone else here posted a similar comment:
"With a 100% corn diet, you'd need ~1,000 WTCs worth of floor space to grown enough calories for Manhattan."
This is not traditional farming, so those kinds of calculations need to be amended.

Also -
Think of nutrition like a machine. Corn (or any grain or vegetable oil) is carbon and is the fuel to run the body machine. Mineral, vitamins, and other chemicals are the maintenance tools that keep the machine in order and running. Growing carbon energy crops is cheap - that is one of the root causes of having far too much high calorie foods that cause obesity and diabetes. Fruits and vegetables, the "good for the machine" foods, are expensive, one of the reasons that people on limited budgets more easily afford grain based foods and thus have obesity and poor nutrition. Growing carbon fuels can always be done cheaply, in large quantities, and transported cheaply, out on the farm, just as it is done now. Growing more perishable green produce, which does not require such large quantities in your diet, but does require more expensive transport and storage costs, they can be cheaper by growing closer to the point of consumption.

Remember too, that grain or legume production might discard much of the grown biomass such as stems and leaves which are not part of the seeds that are brought to market. In contrast, you use all of the lettuce, all of the basil, etc., so the costs are not comparable. The urban farming project described will be growing the non-energy non-carbon nutrients that do not require nearly as much mass or calories in order to supply the other essential nutrients required in our diets.

There were a variety of networking stacks back in the day. TCP/IP probably wasn't the best -- it was nicely robust, but there's a lot of overhead -- but it was good enough. There was nothing about TCP/IP in particular that was important for the WWW - it just happened to get used because of the DARPA/academic origins of the internet.

HTTP is a trivial protocol that anyone skilled in the art could have knocked out. It was an incremental improvement over Gopher, which was an incremental improvement over FTP.

The one key thing we can attribute to TBL is "hey, what if we took these hyperlinks and allowed them to be non-local." That's a brilliant invention, but let not exaggerate. The web took off because it went commercial. It was the wide variety of people who saw ways to commercialize the web that made it a household product instead of just a place for academic discussion buried by USENET spambots.

So not due to decommissioning nuclear power plants but rather that they're not reliable enough.

That's why I brought up the difference in marketing costs. If you had a cure for diabetes you wouldn't have to pay to compete for marketshare - you would just own the market, full stop.

It's fashionable nowadays to bemoan the state of whatever. They did the same thing back when Gutenburg started churning out porn on his printing press. They did the same when TV came out.

Give it up, this isn't really that important.

Disclaimer: I farm. For real. Not iFarm gaming but rather I farm as in I do the real thing growing plants and animals which I deliver to customers year round.

I bought land in the cheapest area that was reasonably close to my markets.

I get free energy from the sun which shines down on us.

I get free fertilizer from the air.

I get free water from the sky and don't even have to use pumps.

I get free growth medium.

Now let's examine the proposed vertical city farms where they're going to use:

Expensive real estate paying high taxes;

Expensive electricity to provide light which is expensive for both the bulbs and the electricity and the labor of maintenance;

Expensive synthetic fertilizers to feed their crops;

Expensive pumps and piping to move the water they buy up their tower; and

Expensive growth mediums or hydroponic systems to grow their crops in.

But wait! It gets worse for them! They're going to produce cheap, low value, low nutrition, commodity crops which they'll get bottom dollar for. What a great way to turn a million dollars into nothing. Big lose.

I on the other hand produce a high end niche meat product where I do vertical integration controlling my feeds, livestock genetics, breeding, raising all on on pasture, then processing in my own on-farm USDA inspected butcher shop and delivered directly to my customers weekly with my own delivery service. I make top dollar.

Vertical farms have been proposed for cities for a long time, the last half century at least. But, they have never translated into the real world for real profitable farming. If it isn't profitable then it isn't sustainable.

But it's competition, and competition makes every player better.

And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.

... if it had classic bluetooth as well.
I would be in the market to replace my big floorstanding speakers with something small and decent sounding. But next to Airplay I would want to connect my stereo to it. There are line output > bluetooth adapters, so i heard. Unfortunately there is no simple airplay sending device (airport express is only a receiver) to get the streaming going.

A half-dozen boy bands from the past decade or so would like a word with you.

Also chiming in to disagree is Milli-Vanilli, with the Spice Girls on backup.

Again, poor gopher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

There are several competitors that are fighting to be the new facebook. I looked at several of them and they are already getting traction. I like the look of MeWe best so far but I'm keeping my eye on a few of the others.

Poor gopher, always forgotten.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

That it eventually got shut down, and nobody cared.

The "humanitarian" intervention in Libya destroyed Mali, lead to a massive spike in crime and murders which is still ravaging the country and opened the flood gates to illegal migration to Europe.

With all that in mind, do you think we should intervene in Syria?

Warmongers vs. pacifists, fascists vs. communists, polarization is nothing new. It's not so long ago that Europe still had honest to god anarchists bombing shit ...

They are simply dreamers who think progress is inevitable and as such the world now has to be a better place and any significant ideological clash like in the bad old days should be impossible. Anyone with opinions different from the liberal norm must have had their mind distorted by the evil ad chasing social media. Everything is sun shine and getting better. Except global warming of course ... that's the one catastrophe you are allowed to see coming.

Unfortunately white genocide, peak everything and (regional) overpopulation are bearing down on us as well. Some of us feel kind of upset about it, we'd feel upset about it without the internet too. Dark times ahead.

I am generally for splitting up California and have believed so for 30 years. But I have since learned about what stands in it's way.

On the federal side Senators would be voting to weaken their own votes.

And probably #1 would be interstate water. Southern California depends on northern California's water. I am in Los Angeles. You hear all about droughts here which is 90% BS. The truth is California has a tremendous farming economy. Cheap water is money here and the farms are squeezing the cities. (I personally believe the big cities should be desalinating ocean water by now and just get out of that game.) And it's only become worse with all the environmental protection laws here which took away something like 30% of the water. If you split up the state your opening up the can of worms that is the all the water contracts and agreements; many of which existed before California was a state. Lawsuit city. All the money behind farming will fight this tooth and nail.

Common sense should tell you that health and healthcare aren't the same thing, meanwhile you're gathering metrics on the first, ignoring the second, and then claiming to be debating the second. If you want the best possible health care for any given condition in the world, then you're going to find it within the United States, period. Whether or not it's available to you in particular is a separable topic.

Funny how I get down modded as a troll for posting facts, it shows that people are not interested in truth and facts just winning their arguments (even when their arguments are totally wrong, winning is all that matters. If you disagree you must be a troll.)

Those who are under the control of the leftwing thinking can justify doing the wrong thing for the "right" reasons. This is why the modding system on this site does not work too many left wing utilitarians who believe the 1st amendment should be struck off.

The word "can" in "can we X?" is ambiguous.

"Can" might mean, (1) "Is it physically or logically possible?"
Or "can" might mean, (2) "Is it feasible to do?"
Or "can" might mean, (3) "Will we make money trying to do this?"

The thing is as you go down the list it gets harder and harder to say "yes", both in overcoming the possible objections and in the work you have to do to get to certainty. I am quite certain that a farm along these line could be built. I wouldn't be surprised if, given sufficient money, it could produce crops. I'd be astonished if it paid for itself in five years as promised.

X Nobody will ever make a fast electric car.
There were fast electric vehicles long before Tesla. No one doubted it could be done, it was just a matter of the tech becoming cheap enough to use in a consumer product.

X Well, Tesla will never make an electric sedan that people actually want
There are ALWAYS going to be buyers for unique $100k cars. No company enters that level of the market without being pretty sure they will sell

X It takes 12 hours to charge an electric car
When people were saying that, it did take a long time to charge an EV, maybe not 12hrs, but not fast.

X They'll never sell more than a few thousand of them
Fair enough...

X They'll never sell 100K cars
Fair enough...

X They'll never make a $35K electric car with >200 miles of range
Making them? Sure... Delivering them? Well that remains to be seen. If they can't get production under control and start filling the backlog, they may find people just walking away. Especially if some other company surprises the market with a competitive EV before they can get sorted.

X They'll sell maybe 50K of them
All those pre-orders don't count until a car is actually made and delivered. It looks like a Kickstarter campaign at this point.

X SpaceX will never be competitive
X SpaceX will never reliably land boosters
X Well, they haven't reused them yet

These aren't cars. Considering that the established players hadn't come remotely close to landing and reuse and had plenty of studies to show how hard it would be, I don't think some skepticism about a private company pulling it off was unwarranted. It was a hell of an impressive achievement.

Do you mean you are smarter than history? If you don't learn the lessons of history you will be doomed to relearn them. What I posted was fact, the idea that people are basically good and you don't need to enforce laws, fight wars etc is just plain wrong idealistic crap. There are very real enemies in the world and criminals. If we do nothing they will not stop. This does not mean that Trump was correct to bomb Syria, but it means he is very correct not to bow to Russia and act in fear of them. Russia is wrong here, very wrong. That does not make the US right but it does mean we should not listen to the Russians.

The current Oracle UEKr4 is a v4.1.12 kernel, and can be loaded in a supported configuration with Ksplice on a Red Hat system.

The preview of the UEKr5 is a 4.14.26 kernel (the Long Term Support release). That is in beta.

You can find installation instructions here for both versions.

San Andreas will do all the work for you.

You can make a reasonable estimate for most of them. And if you did, you'd know it's not going to work unless your end product is cocaine.

Have you ever heard of Zillow? City land prices are 10x rural prices so right off the bat your crops are going to be 10x more expensive.

What equipment can't you get a price for? Pipes? Nozzles? LEDs? Go to Home Depot and whatever price there is going to be your worst case.

Go to a restaurant near your future farm, ask the cooks how much they make. You'll be paying a similar amount.

Ok, I'll give you this one. You'll need to run a small scale experiment, but you don't really need $200 million for that.

You can get this from the small experiment too, but there's also existing literature. Aeroponics? Hydroponics? Plenty of research exists for how efficient those systems are for different crops.

Get a quote from PG&E? Your farm uses less energy than a typical office so you're not going to be negotiating bulk pricing.

It sounds like you've been investing in a lot of idiots. Ok, maybe not all of them. A business plan is not meant to be as accurate as possible, it's there to sell the idea, and unfortunately, wildly optimistic numbers is what's going to get them the investment.

Wish I had points to mod you up.

I think the Prius and various hybrids can claim prior art and also some credit for allowing Tesla to be able to sell a premium EV. The Prius came out in 2003 and was followed within a year by many others including a GMC Sierra full size SUV hybrid. Tesla started selling the Model S in 2012. It only makes sense that other companies are moving to EV as that is the next logical step from hybrid powertrains. Very few of them are concerned with the upper end when they can sell millions of low to mid-range EVs and still eat Tesla's lunch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...