Novell and Microsoft Claim Customer Support 158
munchola writes "Novell and Microsoft have commissioned a survey to prove that customers love their interoperability and patent deal. According to the survey 'Ninety-five percent approve of the collaboration between Novell and Microsoft,' while 'four out of five believe their organization would consider doing more business with Linux dealers if Linux providers establish an alliance with Microsoft.' As CBRonline notes, however: 'Few people have claimed the deal is bad for Novell or Microsoft's customers. The question has been whether it is good for the open source movement, open source developers, or indeed Novell itself. Those issues do not appear to have been addressed by the survey.'"
Just one survey? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Question number one. (Score:4, Funny)
But isn't that the same thing?
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION DAMN IT!
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Those Surveys In Full (Score:2)
The Microsoft Survey:
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Just saying.
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Last I checked this is a USian site, for USians. We are all in the US. Ignoring that fact for a brief moment, the US alone controls most of the global economy. In economic terms, how something impacts the US is the first and almost only consideration; not a side note.
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Sure we can buy a large number of
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No doubt, there are people on slashdot from all over the place and we are happy to converse with them on our forum. But it is a US forum with foreign participants, not an international forum. The appropriate language for the forum is American English, speech in foreign tongues is inappropriate, almost all stories are US Centric, and so forth.
"From where I'm sitting there doesn't seem to be all that much US control over the company's that pr
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Summary: FUD as usual...
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Re:Well...But Who? (Score:2)
But who would they be angry at if this happened?
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Define "sudden", see SCO vs IBM... If Microsoft came out *now*, you'd see discovery in 2007, trial in 2008, appeal in 2009, maybe bankrupcy in 2010 but there'd be plenty of warnings. It's not like one day you'd find a cardboard on the door saying "Out of business".
Oh... (Score:3, Funny)
Move along, nothing to see here.
MS and Novell Can Do Whatever They Want! (Score:4, Interesting)
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you are small. your company is big.
you are in control only until a third-world developer more interested in a living wage than in ideological purity denonstrates that he can do your job better and cheaper.
Survey Responders (Score:1, Troll)
The Actual Survey (Score:5, Funny)
Do you think that the recent interoperability and patent deal between Microsoft and Novel is
A) GoodB) Very Good
C) Not bad at all
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D) All of the above
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E) Profit!
It had to be said.
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Please rate the truthfulness of the following statements on a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 = true and 5 = very true...
1. The MS-Novell deal is good for customers.
2. Open Source software is bad.
3. RMS is a doody-head
-- Disclaimer: I may or may not believe this, but it's how a marketing type would think
As predictable as snow in winter (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/963
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Did I miss Casual Friday ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did anyone here actually participate in this survey ?
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They use a very carefully selected group. In the Case of Gartner they surveyed Win2k and win2k3 Admins only.
MSFT probably surveyed their people who have bought software assurance licenses. Slashdot users generally aren't amoung that group.
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If you want a Biased Opinion in your favor all you have to do is pay either one of them money.
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----
Do you agree that the MS/Novell deal could not be not used for or against your benefit in the future?
(1) I love the MS/Novell deal
(2) I REALLY love the MS/Novell deal
(3) CowboyNeal loves the MS/Novell deal
Patent infringement (Score:4, Funny)
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What I want to know is.. (Score:2)
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Look at how it's phrased (Score:1)
Who's going to oppose that? It's not the good/bad quality of the deal itself that the survey addresses, but the benefits that MS/Novell are trying to sell.
Mod parent up (Score:2)
spred the fud (Score:2, Insightful)
it's not news, it's BS.
I suggest slashdot and others ignore it altogether instead of indignantly reporting it.
Well, Not Always (Score:2, Interesting)
By forming alliance with Microsoft, Novell is promoting some sort of vendor lock-in, which will eventually lead to Microsoft's eclipse of Linux's (including Novell and other Linux vendors) market
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I'm not sure how or if this deal would effect Unis or sun at all?
What kind of customers were surveyed? (Score:2)
You see, Novell will be forced to leave out important upgrades to the [Linux] kernel if parts of this kernel end up licensed under the upcoming GPL v3. When that happens, Novell will be forced to offer an "inferior" kernel to its customers. I believe no one can say that this is positive.
When I look into Novell's past, I fail to see any positive thing the
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GPLv2 and GPLv3 are potentially incompatible and thus this is unlikely.
On the other hand, they won't be able to distribute GPLv3 programs, so the distribution will have to be lighter and that will hurt them more.
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Na, they'll just go down on their knees and get CIFS code from M$ and create a Samba Clone.
Predictable (Score:1)
That pretty much matches my survey (Score:3, Funny)
Coincidence?
The Focus on Interoperability (Score:3, Interesting)
All this focus on interoperability is ASSUMING businesses care about operating with Windows. Certainly some do, and they may care about interoperability issues. Others don't; I know my consulting business is a near-nonexistent speck in the grand scheme of things, but I care not one whit about interoperating with Windows. My business is Linux based, and when I set up protocols for dealing with clients, they include cross-platform data formats.
The only time I care about interop with Windows is when a client has a specific need - like the VPN I designed for a client last year. And what I found in that project was 99.99% of ALL the project headaches came from Windows - activation issues, 2003 Server licensing issues, 2003 Server MTU problems, etc.
Anymore, if a client is completely Windows centric and demands a Windows centric solution to their problem, I typically to not even submit a proposal. That's how I view all this interoperability stuff - it is the OTHER players that must conform to the Windows way of doing things; there is no INTERoperability (imho) - it's "operate with Windows' closed way of doing everything, or go play somewhere else."
Well, my business is playing somewhere else. My experience, and those of my clients, is that the solutions I provide LAST and don't force them into Vendor Lock-In and similar, related nonsense. As I said above, this approach is not for everybody.
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That is almost true. *I* don't know about Windows. That's why my responsibility on the project was only the Linux side of the equation. There was a separate Windows person from the company that supports their Windows computers day-to-day.
And in other news (Score:3, Funny)
"According to the survey 'Ninety-five percent approve of the collaboration"
Collaboration indeed. Collaborators will be shot.
--
BMO
The FUD was so thick... (Score:1)
Get the facts? (Score:3, Interesting)
That's a relief.... (Score:2)
although I probably shouldn't say that out loud (or type that in print...or whatever)
PSB (Score:3, Insightful)
MS should play nice (Score:3, Interesting)
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You do realize that Active Directory is based on LDAP right? Microsoft's ADSI API's can also be used to connect to LDAP stores as well as Active Directory. I don't think a solution would be hard to work on - a little time consuming, but I don't see Microsoft locking out everyone else 100%.
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That does not mean MS made active directory interoperable with unix, it is a nice solution, but it was probably reverse engineered.
Nothing prevents microsoft from making subtle changes that break the compatibility. I have also not seen a windows machine willing to authenticate in a "domain like" fashion using something else than AD (
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*This post brought to you buy a windows machine running on Novell with NDS. All *domain like authentication sponsored by Novell.
They can commission all the surveys they want (Score:3, Informative)
Republican pollsters... (Score:2)
9 out of 10 customers couldn't find their own arse (Score:2)
If i paid somebody to say (Score:2)
Understandable Response (Score:2, Interesting)
Customers aren't qualified to comment, as in political surveys. They also tend to be management types who have a pathological need to seem smart.
Coupled with the psychological predisposition, given no additional evidence, an affirmative response will be provided.
Such that if you asked:
Do you think, in general, that it is a good idea that Wizerbangslopinpop and Akerwhackdoodle are snifflewagging the shooterscoots?
They'll say yes most of the time. Nor will they be inclined to ask questions as this wo
Microsoft Novell Survey (Score:3, Funny)
A) More companies enter into a similar patent agreement with Microsoft.
B) Have a hot poker shoved up your ass.
Would you use Linux more if:
A) More companies paid Microsoft to prevent Microsoft from bringing a harassment law suit against users.
B) Had a hot poker shoved up your ass.
Would you feel more confortable:
A) Doing business with companies who have partnered with Microsoft
B) Having a hot poker shoved up your ass.
Remember... (Score:2)
All I can say is.. (Score:2)
Not relevant (Score:1)
Revealed during the DOJ trial ... (Score:2)
Two weeks later a poll with that exact result appeared in a Windows centric site.
I doubt it was coincidence, and neither is this most recent push-poll for Microvell
Of course it looks good now! (Score:2)
It's just like a relationship. Everything's wonderful when it's all new. Your partner is wonderful, and together you're even better. Your confidence soars, and you try new things you'd never dreamed of before. Then she cuts you off in the knees, leaving you liquidating your assets to pay for hers. Watch out, Novell. That's your future. Enjoy the honeymoon. You're a banana in bed with the industry's 800 p
Seems Reasonable (Score:2)
this whole deal is pure bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
The question that was missing from that survey is "do you trust Microsoft to keep their promises and not attempt to lock you into proprietary products?"
Well, I guess I'm not a customer anymore! (Score:2, Interesting)
I run Suse on my machine, a desktop I depend on every single day for engineering work. I wasn't thrilled when Novell bought Suse, but I upgraded to Suse Linux 9.2 anyways. It says "NOVELL" on the box. I think it was about $80.
Well, guess what. Next time I build up a new 'puter or upgrade the OS on this one... I'm not going to use Suse, even thought it may not be as seamless a transition for me.
I feel a little bad, because the Gecko is kinda cute, and the "random phone support lady" that came up on th
Great for PHB / Gartner Group / Rob Enderle Types (Score:2, Insightful)
These sort of 'surveys' and the type of 'research' by these sorts of people/organizations is such a waste anyway. It is the equivalent of Cliff-Notes(TM) for the IT world so it makes perfect sense that some PHB will now come to one of us a
Winding up the SPIN engine... (Score:2)
GPL v3 and this "deal" (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously Msft and Novl are more than aware of the licensing change so the question is what sort of insidious deal has msft given Novl in the back room? Truth is, if Novell ships GPLv3 software in SuSe then they stand to be liable for enormous damages, injunctions, etc. The patent indemnification nonsense they got from msft will be more than overshadowed by the ruckus created when Novell ignores the license that a significant section of code it ships is released under. Nothing would make msft happier than another round of FUD about Linux but what gain to Novell? cui bono for this upcoming crime? When asked about GPLv3 the Novl CEO said something casually dismissive like "oh, that license, it's still in development."
Something far more sinister is afoot than just Novl opting to be msft's lap dog.
Why even conduct such a survey? (Score:2)
Only One Question (Score:2)
For my whole life I've been immensely distrustful of any survey or poll that didn't include me in its sample.
Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (Score:5, Insightful)
But some of us are. (Score:5, Informative)
Nor will I ever recommend Novell products until Novell changes their attitude.
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Interesting. So Novell enter an agreement that protects you from being sued by Microsoft, and as a result you'd recommend not using their products in future? What's your business case for that?
How do you know they "protect" me? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since the actual wording of their agreement is still a secret, how do you know that they're providing any "protection" at all?
Since they've both stated that this agreement will expire in 5 years, why would I want to risk their products 6 years from now? Migrations are expensive.
When was the last time an end-user (not a distributor/vendor) was sued for patent infringement?
Statistically, if an end-user is being sued by Microsoft, that end-user already has a license agreement with Microsoft.
Microsoft does that all the time. Many of those stories are posted on
One of the PRIMARY advantages of Open Source for the end-user is the absence of license requirements. I have to spend time/effort/money making sure that the copies of MS-Office we use are licensed and that I have proof of those licenses. And that proof is acceptable to Microsoft should they ever audit us.
Yet I can deploy Linux without any CAL's or anything. And OpenOffice.org without any per seat requirements. And so on.
So, the "business case" is savings TODAY versus a nebulous threat that has never been exercised against any end-user in the past
Reputation of providers. (Score:2)
Novell's one is tainted to say the least.
I don't know how some people function in the real world, but for the many posts I see here I get the perception that most people are not diligent when sreening their providers.
Well, that will come back to bite you, one way or another.
You are so wrong in so many levels.... (Score:2)
I'll not give away here the bits of anomity I have left on this site, but most of my posts should make abundantly clear that I am in a position to recommend and ocassionaly buy stuff, including Linux solutions.
I am not amused by the deal, if Novell wants to put a blind on their eyes with marketing bullshit, all the power to them, but there are clients and potential clients out there that are not pleased by this nonsense.
Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (Score:5, Insightful)
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You might use Windows, it doesn't matter. I do too. But you're posting on Slashdot and therefore the posts that you're reading and replying will always be in the pro-linux majority.
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I will use an analogy that I frequently use for my car. I drive an 04 rsx type-s with the ASPEC factory package. The total cost was about 32,000 dollars, taxes and all. For what I get in the package, it is overpriced; I am aware of that. However
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I want and like to use XP.
You are truly Microsoft's ideal customer.
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Sorry if so many people don't know ho
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Aside from the actual argument of Windows vs Linux, I am curious in your personal take on it, and why you chose what you did based on YOUR beliefs... So maybe you can clarify.
So, you are willingly throwing money at something that you yourself claim is an inferior product? Look, if you want to use windows because
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I'm on the fence my
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Is it somehow beyond the scope of your ability to understand that someone can support a company and still not like something they did?
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Yes, we can understand it. We just don't want to admit it.
Re: Marketing auto-fellatio? (Score:2)
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I'm curious why I did not get to take the survey... Was it a stealth ninja survey delivered with a dart through a quickly closing door, and returned by another ninja courier service?
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You sound like a typical sales guy, not that that's bad. They are always focused on what they can sell this quarter, and not concerned about two years out. Novel is probably also listening to their sales guys. I find they under-estimate the power of the open-source community, and resent it for not paying any commissions. Most paying c
The reason is... (Score:2, Interesting)
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