Cisco to Kill Linksys Brand Name

Mav sent in this article that opens, "In a roundtable with the European press, John Chambers confirmed the "end of life" of the Linksys name, being replaced by the new and redesigned Cisco branding." He explains, "It will all come over time into a Cisco brand. The reason we kept Linksys' brand because it was better known in the US than even Cisco was for the consumer. As you go globally there's very little advantage in that."

So what happens now

Does the consumer stuff get better, or the enterprise stuff get worse?

Re:So what happens now

Enterprise stuff gets worse, consumer stuff stays shitty, prices of both go up.

Re:So what happens now

The consumer stuff stays crappy but you pay 20% more for the cooler enterprise-level brand name.

Re:So what happens now

But at least I can finally make use of my CCNP when setting up my friend's wireless!

Re:So what happens now

This is true. But they still sell one with the extra memory as the WRT54GL. (L for Linux.)

Re:So what happens now

Actually, there are a lot more than two different versions of the WRT54G (and its sister the WRT54GS), with many different specifications. Here's a nearly complete list [linksysinfo.org]. I think it's missing a few of the newest versions, but they run the sucky VxWorks firmware, not Linux. (Some smart people have actually found a way to replace VxWorks with Linux, but the new models are so limited memory-wise that it really isn't useful.)

Also, the WRT54GL is basically a WRT54G version 4. It's the safest bet if you want a new router to run custom Linux firmware on.

Re:So what happens now

Huh? Are you for real? I have owned 3 Linksys-based Cable/DSL routers. The first two I purchased were based on Linux and I found them to work very well. When the two Linux-based Linksys routers I owned started to show their age, I was able to find a nice firmware update that has allowed me, as a paying customer, to enjoy my product for longer and add some more features.

We all know that over-paid execs don't want customers ("consumers" to them) to enjoy products for any longer than need be. With that said, my latest "Linksys" cable/dsl router whivh is now Cisco branded and has a different non-Linux firmware just sucks. I have had issues with systems not getting an IP, wireless not working, slow network speeds on an 8 Mbps connection and all other crap. Switching back to an earlier Linksys model fixes things right up.

Re:So what happens now

That's why I don't buy any router that I can't run DD-WRT on. It adds so much to the system and takes nothing away.

Re:So what happens now

the power of branding

We had in our office a little WiFi network based on those blue/purple Linksys routers. And it worked really well for couple of years. After some failures one of my colleagues decided it was time for a state-of-the-art replacement with those new silver colored Cisco/Linksys boxes. Yep, consumer pricing, but branded by Cisco.

Well, if I would get just 10 bucks for every hour he was on the phone with Cisco support or installing new firmware, I would be a rich man. Even up to stupid things that an configuration webpage for firewall port forwarding has 20 fields, but the moment you put in more than 10 entries, number 11 and higher don't work. Seems that the GUI designers didn't talk to the developers of the firewall software.

Not to mention the number of times we have to power-switch those stupid boxes (BTW, they look like grey Mac mini's). And half the time after replugging the power brick, the thing doesn't want to reboot and no lights come on. Because we have four of them, in a roaming network, I know it's not simply the failure of a single unit, but design flaws.

These are simply crappy design. Yes, they were cheap (like Linksys also always was) and yes they are Cisco branded. But definitely not professional Cisco quality!! I think Cisco should be careful, there is the chance they are dilluting their professional brand recognition with these low-cost, low-quality consumer products.

Re:So what happens now

But definitely not professional Cisco quality!! I think Cisco should be careful, there is the chance they are dilluting their professional brand recognition with these low-cost, low-quality consumer products.

If you'd ever used cisco stuff you'd know that they're popular not because of their quality but because of their support. IOS has persistent issues with bugs, and it's not unusual for them to release hardware that doesn't work properly (the first 87x routers for example had a buggy DSL implementation that couldn't hold sync, making them pretty useless. I had 5 swapouts on one unit alone before they admitted that none of them worked...

Re:So what happens now

My prediction: They'll attempt to build consumer-grade products using their enterprise technology. Because it won't be a perfect fit, you'll get quirks in the consumer-grade products. The consumer-grade division will make demands on the engineers behind the enterprise technology, to get a better-fitting product. The changes to the enterprise technologies will inadvertently cause problems in those technologies fitting in with their enterprise customers.

Long story short, Cisco's enterprise products will lose market share to their competitors, and Cisco will do one of three things: 1) They'll pull out of the consumer market and focus on their enterprise customers. 2) They'll work to keep their enterprise and consumer product divisions separate, even if it means duplication of effort. 3) They'll do neither, decrease in value, and get bought up by an equity firm to be sold off for parts.

Re:So what happens now

Does the consumer stuff get better, or the enterprise stuff get worse?

I think we know the answer there. There's a reason why most companies try to keep professional and consumer gear segmented. Consumers may not even know what they're looking for, especially when it comes to geek stuff like networking gear. Professionals are going to be the ones who usually see through the bullshit, will notice when a trusted brand starts to suck eggs, and will move on with barely a tear shed for nostalgia. Cisco's branding is "we're big boy professional gear so you're going to pay to get into our league." Given the way these trends usually go, this just means that the consumer-end stuff will be typical cost-cutting Mickey Mouse bullshit and the pointy-haired bosses and marketing weasels will push for that same approach in the professional end.

Anyone read the articles about how Wal-Mart would approach companies whose brands are positioned as high-quality and asked them to spank together some cheap-ass China-made crap to market under that brand-name? The article I'm thinking of in particular is Snapper lawnmowers. The Snapper people finally told Wal-Mart where to stick it because it was impossible to make a quality mower at a Wal-Mart price, they'd have had to whore the company name and ruin their reputation to do it.

Hopefully I'm overreacting here and this won't even be a speed-bump for the company. But I'm thinking back to that topic yesterday about "dead companies with good products" and my Spidey sense is tingling.

One word - Inprise

Borland - Inprise - Borland.

Re:One word - Inprise

They have two great brand names. It would be silly to kill one of them off, since they use them to segment their markets. If they were both aimed at the same buyers (a la "Nissan" and "Datsun" back in the day) I could understand rationalizing the nameplate, but this is just a waste.

If they wanted to, they could always do "Linksys by Cisco" - reaping the benefits of both brand names.

Re:One word - Inprise

Um, Nissas and Datsun were the same thing. They just changed the name from Datsun to Nissan.

Forgive me if I'm being really stupid here and missed something obvious that I shouldn't have. It's hot and I may have eaten some dodgy hamburger.

In fact if nobody ever hears from me again - it WAS the hamburrger.

Re:One word - Inprise

If they wanted to, they could always do "Linksys by Cisco" - reaping the benefits of both brand names.

They are already doing this. I have one sitting on the desk next to me. Doesn't say "by Cisco," but it has the Cisco Systems name/logo on it along side the Linksys one. Of course it is no longer functional. Good thing they are stackable so I can build lego like creations with the pile of dead Linksys devices.

Cisco recently raised their brand awareness

With their iPhone breaking network at Duke.

Should have been the plan from the beginning

The uninformed user knows Cisco as "the network company that the Internet is connected with." Being able to put that logo on consumer-grade broadband and networking products would/will continue to be a huge boon for marketing. Had someone told me 10 years ago that I could own *my very own* full-featured Cisco router for under $100, I would've given a finger to sign up.

Re:Should have been the plan from the beginning

A finger plus $100? That is a little pricey. How about 2 fingers and $25?

Re:Should have been the plan from the beginning

I have to agree with you 100%. GP apparently hasn't had a lot of experience with many models of many brands of consumer-level networking equipment. I after testing/installing/configuring hundreds (probably thousands, I really haven't kept track) of consumer networking equipment parts, no brand in my experience has had nearly as a high a failure rate as Linksys. And I know this next bit is going to seem an exaggeration or a troll, but it's not. In the dozens of Linksys routers and switches I've worked with, I've actually had over a 50% failure rate. Admittedly, with my job I generally only get called in only to solve problems. But the fact is, when I get called to a job where a Linksys part is involved, more than half the time that part must be replaced. When other brands of networking equipment are in use, it's rarely a defective part.

Re:Should have been the plan from the beginning

But: They're not "full-featured", at least in standard trim. They're only good for NATing a network of computers to Teh Intarwebs.

With something like OpenWRT loaded onto such a device, somewhat more esoteric and useful stuff can be done. But even then, it's just a Linux box, whereas "full-featured" Cisco (non-Linksys) routers run IOS.

Oh, well.

Back on topic: My mother knows what a Linksys router is for. If the one at her house failed, she would be able to produce an equivalent replacement from Wal-Mart without my assistance. Abandoning the Linksys brand for everything to say Cisco will smash this brand-recognition and loyalty; she'd be just as likely to buy one that says "Belkin" as "Cisco."

Cisco is a stronger brand name

I never even think of "Linksys" when I'm cooking.

At Walmart ...

How many people will confuse 'Cisco' with 'Crisco' [wikipedia.org]?

Shouldn't they have told me?

I'm a loyal customer who has used "linksys" as his nationwide wireless ISP for years. You'd think they would have sent out a letter to me or something.

Re:Shouldn't they have told me?

I'm a loyal customer who has used "linksys" as his nationwide wireless ISP for years. You'd think they would have sent out a letter to me or something.

I certainly expect a press release on what they plan to use for the default WAP name, just to eliminate the guessing.

Maybe Altiris is Next.....

or some notebook makers will find their brand equity digested by their purchasers (say hello to the *New* HP and *New* Dell branding).

Let's see.... YouTube goes to GooTube which devolves back to Google.

Branding has become a useless exercise..... brand assets are as good as the purchasing company's mindset.

So, listen up there all you 3rd-Mortgaged Startups: Make That Brand Count. But don't fall in love with it.

I'll bet DLink is laughing their butts off. Now they compete with Cisco instead of measily old Linksys. Whoohooo!

Name Recognition

Cisco definately does have name recognition amongst most consumers. I work retail at a location which sells a lot of networking equipment, and whenever people ask "What's this Linksys stuff?", I always respond that they're a division of Cisco. Most of the time, that gets a favorable response, and I see a good bit of Linksys hardware leave the shelf because of that fact. A good move by Cisco.

Re:Name Recognition

They may just not want to look stupid. My son's name is Conan. When people ask what nationality that is, I tell them "Cimmerian". They will often follow up with "Where is that?" I would tell them "Northern Hyboria". This generally illicits a knowing nod, and a "Oh, yeah." as if they know where that is, and just needed a reminder. So, while MAYBE they know what Cisco is, they also might just be buying it because they don't want to look ignorant.

I'm not sure this is a good idea.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some reallllly smart marketing type people at Cisco ran some sort of study or something but, Linksys is consumer stuff. Cisco is enterprise stuff. Why dilute the brand for the enterprise stuff with consumer-grade equipment being associated with the name? Then again, where is there more money to be made? Not sure I have an answer but I'd be interested in hearing what others think about keeping the identity separate vs. combining them into one. Seems to me that "Linksys, a division of Cisco" would be as confidence-boosting as calling it Cisco, to the consumer. And I'd prefer to know that if something says Cisco, it's the real deal, not some 60 dollar best-buy grade piece of switchgear.

Crap

Now people won't value my hard-earned Linksys Network Engineer certificate...

Well,

Crisco was already taken.

The Best To Come Of This

The best thing I see coming from this, there will longer be a Linksys WRT54G. After revision 5, it has to be the single crappiest router in history, amplified by the fact that all the chums at Best Buy own pre-version 5 routers, which are rock solid, and have no idea why I insist that any recent release is pure shit. They constantly tell my customers that it is the finest router money can buy, and my customers, being the idiots they are, listen to the minimum wage dumbass patrol at Best Buy instead of their ISP. Why people think a sales monkey knows more about networking than a networking guy, I'll never know. The end result is always the same, their service is fine, the router I told them not to buy locks up every damned day, and this is somehow my fault.

Even if Cisco releases the same router with a new brand name, there is a good chance that the sales drones won't recognize it, and I can stop saying, "I told you so," to my customers.

Does this mean...

...I have to change my router's SSID to cisco now?

rj

Well, that could be interesting.

Really good way to decrease the reputation of Cisco as rock solid gear. Linksys always gets funky in not so good ways.

Re:Well, that could be interesting.

I always thought the Linksys WRT54G(L/S) was a great piece of hardware. Admitedly, the default Linksys firmware was garbage. That's why there's custom firmware like DD-WRT or OpenWRT. Cisco should have bought DD-WRT or OpenWRT and used that instead of their own firmware, that would've been a good start.

More on topic, I really don't see the point of giving up a well established brand like Linksys. It already says "A Division of Cisco" with the Cisco bridge logo on both the retail box and router itself. Isn't that good enough?

But

What SSID will we wardrive for? I am going to miss all those "Linksys" being found so easily...

well won't that just be neat

you do can have a crappy $20 (on sale at bb) home router that says CISCO Sytems on it...whoopdy do

it is kinda sad how much crappier the home stuff is built over the last few years as the home networking stuff became more commoditized.

my old RT314 router had nice rugged metal housing and plethora of status lights now you get a cheapy plastic housing and 1 light be port if lucky.... not to mention crap like the cutting in half of the RAM on the WRT54G and other bs cost cutting moves by linksys on that product making later wrt54g garbage.

but i don't entirely care cause i use a old PC / monowall for my routing / firewall needs. and I have a nice rack mount switch i picked up off ebay for very little...

Will they also kill all those Linksys products?

Pleeeeze?

The big question is .....

Will the home routers stay blue ?? Or go for the 'cisco' green

Saw this one coming...

Most of my small business clients lived and died on those small purple Linksys boxes. About half of those small purple boxes would fail for some reason, choking on a packet and hanging or just failing completely. I'd convince them that a small investment (under $250) in better networking gear would pay off in the long run, avoiding field service calls at $75/hr.

Not that I have anything against Linksys per se: I'm currently using a DSL router (RV082) that bears both the Linksys and Cisco Systems logos. It's been solid as a rock and serves as a capable VPN endpoint. It's just those small purple boxes that they sell at Best Buy and Staples that vex me.

Seven years ago, when I needed to share my DSL connection with more than one computer, Linksys was there for me. But after a while, it was time to move on to more mature and robust equipment.

k.

What's in a name

Cisco has a good reputation in networking. Linksys, by my experience anyway, has one of the worst. If Cisco are going to badge Linksys products under the name "Cisco" they had better improve the service and quality of the linksys products. If not, when teenagers and uni students are buying networking equipment, the first experience they will have with Cisco will be a bad one and forever tarnish the brand.

Just take a look at all the complaints around the SRW2008MP ( which I recently regret purchasing ). Unless you have internet explorer, forget about trying to use WebView to configure it. It won't work with any other browser, so forget trying to use Linux of Mac or BSD or anything else. You are FORCED to have a MS Windows machine to configure it.

But I here you say, "It also comes with a serial port for configuration." Nope, that doesn't provide full capability to configure it either.

What a stupid idea...

Cisco's reputation has been slowly been suffering in the last few years and this is a huge leap in the wrong direction.
Don't get me wrong - most Cisco stuff is still pretty damn good - but there are fairly reasonable alternatives nowadays and a significant amount of their stuff sells because their customers are running all / mostly Cisco infrastructure or someone recommended Cisco.

Putting their name on shitty consumer level DSL routers and 4 port switches isn't going help in the recommendation department - some of you know that purchasing decisions can be easily affected by some person who isn't all that technical (I saw Cisco phones on 24, they must be great!, etc)"
Of course, that works the other way too. I've seen people reject proposals w/ 3com because some shitty 3com branded consumer level lemon caused them aggravation at home. 3com isn't top of the line, but it was pretty damn good a few years ago.
One Cisco gets their first lemon product - and they will, because consumer equipment is cheap crap mass produced by peasant labour - that will leave a lasting bad taste in the mouths of the people who will make future decisions. And while Cisco consumer stuff might be a bit better than the other crap on the market, "not being as bad as ___________" is a really crappy goal to strive for (and when your competitors suck, it doesn't make a great advertising slogan either)

I don't expect prices to go anywhere but up either - when Cisco started putting their name all over Linksys boxes, the prices went through the roof (unmanaged, stock 16 port switches for $300+?). Same shit, but twice(+) the money. Not cool. People aren't stupid, they will eventually catch on.

I bet some consultant asshole and some fucking buzzwords had something to do with this.
"Standardized Branding" ftw.

Value of a brand == Don't throw 'em away

I was listening to a show on CBC radio (gov't-funded NPR-like radio in Canada) a month or so back and they had a marketing guy talking about the value of brands. The speaker asserted that even bad brands have tremendous value, because they need to be focused, not established. Establishing a brand takes years and a shit-pile of money, with no guarantees, said he. From this guy's perspective, there is nothing more difficult in marketing and sales than establishing a brand, where a brand is a gut feeling about products+prior experience+what you've heard+service+etc. It's all that stuff that is evoked when you hear the company name, see the logo, think about buying a product.

This is completely off my cuff, but I think Linksys is a very established brand in residential markets, where 'Cisco' isn't. My girlfriend's son (first marriage stuff) even called his wireless router 'the linksys' last week ... and his wireless router is labeled by Dlink.

He sure as shit didn't call it 'my cisco'.

I call this move a mistake. Here's a Slideshare doc I cam across a few months back; the writer can't spell 'Porsche' correctly, but nonetheless I think it's a good intro blurb:
http://www.slideshare.net/coolstuff/the-brand-gap [slideshare.net]

Killed by Broadcom

The linksys brand was solid, until their routers started using broadcom chipsets, and immediately began to suck. Millions of people who would have bought linksys if their "computer literate" neighbor had been able to recommend it thus did not buy linksys. Cisco, being smart MBAs with the souls of paperclips, have now decided to use a brand everyone still trusts before they pump up sales and ditch the company to toolish shareholders before retiring to Cuba.

Black and Decker and DeWalt again?

Black and Decker used to be a trusted name amongst professionals until they started making toasters, household electric screwdrivers, etc. It eroded the brand. Black and Decker then took DeWalt, a brand that had languished against its competitors, but revitalized it by becoming the new name for Black and Decker's professional line of tools. Same tools, just a new name to get away from the consumer-grade equipment.

The same may happen to Cisco. Sometimes it's best to have a "professional-grade" brand versus a consumer-grade one.

Click here [reveries.com] to learn a little bit more about the Black and Decker and DeWalt name game.

Maybe I was wrong...

...But when Cisco purchased Linksys a few years back I was under the impression that the deal was to leave these guys alone and give them alot of autonomy. I liked linksys because they were giving Cisco a run for their money in some product lines. Lately I saw too many Linksys products hitting the streets without being ready (WIP300 'iPhone', WRV200 VPN router,...) and I was afraid that something was wrong and that Cisco was taking over and the Linksys guys were muted from the inside. I don't see that in a good ways.

This may be modded as flamebait but back in the days when I ran an ISP, I know for a fact that if I had purchased Cisco products instead of Allied Telesyn, Livinston (Lucent) and others I would have run bankrupt, the price difference was 1:3 between Cisco and the other brands and I simply couldn't afford it. They are going to mess up the skinny athletic Linksys with their big fat lethargic ways... For me, Cisco is a brand name like 'Microsoft' but it really doesn't mean it's better...

Please stay hackable

As the owner of a WRT54G and NSLU2, I can run my entire home network on 2 linux servers consuming, together, under 20 watts.

Will the Cisco-ification of Linksys stop this from happening in the future?

In Other News

Also announced was Cisco's plan to gently ease consumers into the new brand with a line of "Linksisco" equipment during the transitional period. "We'll gradually reduce the name to Lisco and finally to Cisco," said one brand manager when asked to comment. "Hopefully people will just think their dyslexia's getting worse and they won't notice until it's too late."

The Linksys brand was fine!

A bit late, i was getting used to the name Linksys, which imho stands for good consumer network hardware, whereas cisco stands for very expensive enterprise hardware.
I think it was fine the way it was.
Looks like a typical manager-decission "oh, we call it cisco, it will allow us to make it more expensive"

Won't miss the Linksys tech support

After being told to upgrade the firmware on a PoE injector that croaked and leaked shortly after being powered up, I can't say the name will be missed.

This probably means nothing for quality.

How does this affect product reliability and quality? Will we start getting better stuff than the crap linksys junk I've had the misfortune of using so far?

Every single Linksys consumer / home wireless product I've used has been much more expensive and worse quality than even cheap taiwan made no-name brands or stuff like planex which costs 1/2 as much as linksys in terms of product life and reliability.

didn't know sisqo made routers...

or maybe i misread...

NEW: Cisco sends out patch kits

... Consumers confused by where to place the stickers.

oh i know them

Don't they make the food for most restauraunts???

Free wireless

So that free nationwide wireless service I use called Linksys will be renamed Cisco?