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Comment: Re:Appeal to authority is not good enough (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46769433) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
That is a very good post at showing exactly how people who think they are pro-vaccine spend a lot of effort convincing people not to vaccinate. Ignoring data, rationalizing ad hominem, telling people that getting all of their vaccines but in a different order isn't ok because they must mindlessless follow the set script 100%. Hypocritically declaring that when your villian does reasearch for money, it is a sign of corruption, while ignoring the fact that the majority of all drug research is done for money. Ignoring what is said and pulling words randomely from sentences to try and refute them by giving them exactly the opposite meaning than the context of the original statement in strawman arguments.

Supporting your case only through easily refuted arguements does more harm than good. Like I said. People like you do far more harm than good. If you want to know why people who don't vaccinate their children take the route they do, you should look in a mirror, because it is people like you that are convincing them.

Comment: Re:Why do people listen to her? (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46762343) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
Because more people burn themselves and others to death cooking home cooked meals than the chicken pox kill when the entire population is unvaccinated. Home cooked meals are a 100% preventable death. Even more so than chicken pox, as even in the best case scenerio, the chicken pox vaccine is not 100% effective. People who throw a hissy fit over skipping a chicken pox vaccine, and then proceed to live in homes with kitchens range from ignorant to hypocrates.

Comment: Re:Why do people listen to her? (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46762315) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
You are lying and that is why so many people don't trust their doctors concerning vaccines. 1 in 100 people do not have the problems you list. My guess is that 1 in 100 people end up with a divot somewhere on their bodies and you are telling the standard lie through statistics by counting every person who has the slightest scare as someone who has a "complication", and then listing complications as "Death" and "brain damage", implicitly claiming that 1 in 100 people who catch chicken pox will die or get brain damage.

Any talk of shingles is another outright deception. 1) Childhood vaccination for chickenpox is no way established nor even implied by data to protect against adult cases of shingles. Heck, they have not even established that adult cases of chickenpox are not going to increase due to childhood vaccination. So far the data implies their will eventually be an increase. 2) Adult vaccination of people who have had chickenpox has shown a decrease in cases of shingles. 3) While I won't dispute that you may have had a problem, anything beyond discomfort is extremely rare with shingles. At least up until recently, a doctors visit due to shingles resultied in being told to go home, and that while unsightly, it was not dangerous in any way. Shingles only became "dangerous" after the chicken pox vaccine started being offered to adults as a shingles vaccine.

Comment: Re:Why do people listen to her? (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46753999) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
More of this kind of thinking needs to happen if we want to get everyone vaccinated with the important vaccines. The anti-anti-vax crowed does more harm to their own cause than Jenny McCarthy ever could. The anti-anti-vax crowd also needs to stop putting mild childhood diseases like chicken pox in the same category as polio. It is our right dishonest and reduces the strength of their argument concerning the more severe diseases.

Comment: Re:Why do people listen to her? (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46753935) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
I'll give you one. The chicken pox vaccine. It shouldn't be given to children. It should be used on adults who have did not gain immunity by catching the disease. The numbers on the chicken pox show that adults are 10x more likely to die from chicken pox than children. The numbers on the vaccine show that it does not offer life long immunity. So, we are very likely pushing the disease away from a safe time to get it to one that is 10x more dangerous.

On top of that, even when you count the adults, you are more than 3x more likely to die from a home cooked meal than you are from chicken pox. There continue to be far more preventable deaths do to residential kitchens than there ever have been for chicken pox. More lives would be saved if the efforts put into chicken pox vaccination were redirected to end the legality of kitchens in residential homes.

Comment: Re:Why do people listen to her? (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46753915) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
I would say that it is exactly the opposite. When the anti-anti-vaxxers start getting caught lying about what their super villian has said or done, it makes them look like liers who's position doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Articles like this one are for more influential at convincing people that they should not vaccinate than Jenny McCarthy ever was.

"Jenny McCarthy is a whore." is not a statment that makes people believe that science is on your side conserning vaccines.

Comment: Re:Why do people listen to her? (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46753801) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
Including Chicken pox reduces the strength of your argument. Scaring from chicken pox is less of an issue than it is for acne. There is no evidence that getting the vaccine as a child will prevent shingles later on in life. In fact, contrary to what the medical industry was claiming a decade ago, the chicken pox vaccine has proven to not offer life long protection, so not only is it unlikely to prevent shingles, it is unlikely to prevent chicken pox itself later in life. Chicken pox in adults is 10x more dangerous for adults than it is for children. Then we have the herd immunity issue. The vaccinations are reducing our herd immunity against shingles.

The actual data for sources like the CDC show that we should be letting our kids get chicken pox, and if they don't get it by 14 or 15, THEN we give them the vaccine to prevent adult cases of chicken pox. A follow up vaccination sometime in adulthood and old age would seem appropriate to prevent shingles as well.

This is why I say that those who claim to be arguing for vaccination are in reality doing the opposite. They lump chicken pox in with things like mumps and polio. Heck, you implied that chicken pox is in the same category as ebola. This does not help convince anyone to get vaccinations for polio, mumps or measles.

For comparison, home cooked meals are more than 3x as likely to kill you than an entire population of people who have not gotten the chicken pox vaccine.

Comment: Re:Opportunity cost (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46753683) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
While the mumps and measles vaccines cause more good than harm (even if every single case of autism were casued by the vaccine), you would save more lives by banning home cooked meals than the best case scenerio for giving kids the chicken pox vaccine. I don't watch much with Jenny McCarthy, so I can't tell you about every interview she has had, but I do see articles like this one, and the people writing the article consistantly quote her, and then claim that what she said was different than what they just quoted. They almost alway resort to ad hominem attacks, and will try to change the subject, and then accuse her of being the one who 'moved the goal posts'.

I followed the links in the summary. If I didn't know better, I would think that they were plants for an anti-vaccination movement.

Comment: Re:Appeal to authority is not good enough (Score 1) 586

by Belial6 (#46753637) Attached to: Jenny McCarthy: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine'"
The problem I have with the debate is that if if 100% of vaccines are 100% safe, the pro-vaccine people are constantly arguing against getting vaccines. Just look at the links in the summary. They misrepresent and outright lie about what McCarthy says. They will quote her, and then repeat that she said something she didn't. They will try to change the subject, and they accuser her of moving the goal posts. They are constantly using ad hominem attacks. Basically they are using all of the tactics that a person who is lying would use to support their position.

Heck even the huge Wakefield thing was handled like someone who was trying to cover up bad behavior. Wakefield declares a link between Autism and MMR. He recommends getting the three shots seperatly. What is the pro-vaccine response? To tell people they are stupid murderers and that asking for three seperate shots is a crime against humanity. So, how many people just didn't vaccinate their kids because the pro-vaccine movement told people that they can't get the shots seperately?

If you want to blame someone for a reduction in vaccinations, far more of the blame should be set at the feet of the AAP, CDC, pedeatricians and all of the people on sites like this that constantly take a subject that they are mostly right about, and implicitly tell the public that they are lying.

It is like my wife coming home and finding a womans jacket that does not belong to her. If I just tell her, "Yeah, Ann came by today and we went to lunch.", there is no problem. If I tell her that no one has been to the house, there is a problem. Lying, perticularly in blatently obvious ways, only weakens your position.

Comment: Re:They've got a lot of catching up to do... (Score 1) 431

by Belial6 (#46751049) Attached to: Is Germany Raising a Generation of Illiterates?
And, the majority of Unschoolers don't step in with advice. That is the point of Unschooling. So, it doesn't matter if the parents step in or not, the kids end up reading anyway. The functional literacy of these kids is absolute proof that they are learning to read somewhere.

Comment: Re:They've got a lot of catching up to do... (Score 1) 431

by Belial6 (#46750515) Attached to: Is Germany Raising a Generation of Illiterates?
The point is that not all Unschooled kid have parents who are doing everything right, yet they still learn to read. We live in a society that makes it extreamly difficult to not have text around. Even when the parents don't have books around the house, they will generally have a TV, or the kids are outside of the house. Both of these will bombard children with reading.

Comment: Off Topic (Score 1) 431

by Belial6 (#46750461) Attached to: Is Germany Raising a Generation of Illiterates?
Ok, this is off topic, but I was a Fallout fan with 1 and 2. I never played 3 because it was using a FPS engine, so assumed that it was just a generic FPS using the Fallout name to make sales. Earlier this month Fallout 3 was on sale cheap, and decided I would give it a try. I was pleasently surprised. Yes the game uses a FPS engine, but the game is a real Fallout game. The game feels like a fallout game, and it definitly puts the Fallout story and gameplay above the FPS elements.

For $20 you can get the 'Game of the Year Edition' that has all of the DLC content included. It is definitly worth it. Even at 5 years old, it is still a fun game that has aged very well.

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