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Zune Sales Not So Bad After All
Posted by
samzenpus
on Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:03 PM
from the on-second-thought dept.
from the on-second-thought dept.
pyrbrand writes "Despite the iFanboy jabber that Zune sales were horrific, CNN has a story to the contrary. Turns out Zune was the #2 Digital Audio player in its first week of sales. Not a bad start for the challenger to the iPod throne. As others have pointed out the Amazon sales rank may have been thrown off by Zune sales being divided between the three colors."
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Zune Sales Not So Bad After All
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divided sales (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Informative)
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://neolicity.blogspot.com/)
Yes, but this isn't the main way in how the report was misleading. The main problem is that TFA mentions (according to one analysis) 2nd place for the Zune, with 9% of the market, which places it before SanDisk and after Apple. Yet no numbers are given for Sandisk or Apple. For all we know, the numbers are 70% Apple, 9% Zune, 8.99% SanDisk. According to the other analysis, Zune had 7%, putting it behind SanDisk, which supports the theory that their market shares are very close.
In addition, we don't know who the 7-9% was taken out of. If all of it came out of Apple's share, that is one thing, but if it came out of Microsoft's former PlaysForSure partners, mainly SanDisk, then it is another. TFA simply does not go into any detail here.
So, TFA has nothing to dispute the theory, mentioned many times in the past on Slashdot, that the Zune will indeed be a 'killer', but mainly a PlaysForSure-killer, not an iPod-killer. On the contrary, that theory seems to be partially borne out by TFA and the blanks it doesn't fill in.
IMO, in the short term the non-iPod market will be much simpler to encroach on than the iPod one. Yet, given time and Microsoft's endless pockets, we eventually see a change in the long run.
Re:divided sales (Score:4, Informative)
(http://jimthompson.org/ | Last Journal: Monday August 20 2001, @09:22AM)
You're close. According to this Seattle PI article [nwsource.com], in unit sales it was iPod 63%, Zune 9%. In dollar share, it was iPod 72%, Zune 13%. No numbers are given for Sandisk.
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Informative)
In fact, when I posted this comment there were 10 iPod moddels in the overall top 25 (not just electronics) and no Zune. Certainly this changes regularly, but come on... There are even 2 other players in that first page list. The black Zune doesn't even show up until the third page (63). You have to look up the others directly...
Brown 285, and White 484
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=209024&op=Rep
The real story here is that someone is buying the brown one.
But seriously, maybe it's selling well, but only if you count the first day sales (and not too many more days) does it compete with an iPod.
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Funny)
Camoflage when the drop down an airliner's toilet?
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, that's just one company's data. The article goes on to say, "Another research agency, Current Analysis, reported a somewhat similar sales reading during the same week. For the same week ending November 18, 2006, the Zune took 7 percent of the MP3 player market, falling behind both Apple and Sandisk.". So other statistics suggest that the Zune may only have been able to hit the #3 spot in the first week of sales. Again, this is going up against models that have been out for some time.
But the really important thing to keep in mind is who we're dealing with and their original goal. These would be good sales for a new company, but for an established behemoth with the clout of Microsoft, and given their goal of producing an "iPod killer", this is a pretty lame showing. If anybody is being fanboyish here, it's people who are saying that not doing quite as horrifically awful as people predicted is some kind of victory for Microsoft. Not to say that you can count Microsoft out; they'll doubtless release improved versions. But first impressions count for a lot, as Apple learned that the hard way with Newton. Although Apple eventually produced a good PDA, the Newton never recovered from the bad press and bad reviews that the initial, not-ready-for-prime-time models received.
Re:divided sales (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://obruo.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 22 2006, @06:34PM)
As the saying goes... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:As the saying goes... (Score:5, Funny)
I thought I would point out (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://port80ware.com/)
Thanks! I can finally pirate my records! (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.icarusindie.com/)
Re:Thanks! I can finally pirate my records! (Score:5, Funny)
You know, the "throw your hands in the air" type who mixes, scratches, and crossfades?
Not the one who spun "The Chicken Dance" at your cousin's wedding.
Bad Coding (Score:4, Funny)
How many people do you think falls into the category of being over 50 but not 40?
Re:I thought I would point out (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I thought I would point out (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday November 01, @12:01PM)
MUCH warmer.
"Warmer" is a code word for "distorted". You may like the effect of the distortion -- but it's still distortion, and not the way the sound is intended to be heard. See also: tube amps.
Re:I thought I would point out (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.sergiocarvalho.com/)
Light reading for when you wish to learn more and stop babbling stupid stuff: Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem [wikipedia.org]. When reading, keep in mind that it is a theorem, not a theory. For all practical matters, it is mathematically proven, and states that: "Exact reconstruction of a continuous-time baseband signal from its samples is possible if the signal is band limited and the sampling frequency is greater than twice the signal bandwidth."
I'll add it is not only possible, but in practice extremely easy for the [0-20Khz] range, given the current state of electronics.
No matter how you put it... (Score:4, Insightful)
That's the nature of statistics.
And fanboys.
What other competition? (Score:4, Insightful)
It didn't (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.firehed.net/)
And for the sake of Devil's Advocate, you should (by the industry's logic) be forced to pay a royalty for using your iPod as a portable drive for your camera. Not for the music, but for the painfully high chance that you've snapped a shot that included something copyrighted... basically anything with a backdrop other than a landscape (ads plastered everywhere, any branded products, etc). Just like the painfully high chance you infringed copyright of (not stole... they still have their copy!) music, right?
Don't get me wrong. The idea sucks, and is downright offensive to almost everyone who actually buys music. But a piracy tax on iPods DOES make more sense than blank media taxes, simply due to intended use. As far as I'm concerned, Apple shouldn't have to pay them a cent as long as they keep the "Don't steal music." sticker on the front (nor should any other brand). As far as I'm concerned, such a tax legitimizes piracy - a Slashdot post I read earlier today indicated that this logic held up in Canadian court. I'd be all for the idea if I didn't know that the logic couldn't possibly hold up in a court system as screwed up as our (US) own.
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:4, Insightful)
I might give it some credence, but we all know it won't. They want it both ways.
Maxim
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.slashdot.org/)
See the related
And no, I don't like DRM'd crap, but I do like our environment better, and don't care to pollute it with more CDs that I'm just going to rip. Would I rather just because to get plain MP3s. Yeah, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. From personal experience, Apple's DRM is pretty decent, and only got in the way once, where I had to deauthorize all my computers.
So in this case, competition actually isn't looking good for consumer's rights, primarily because most consumers buying these things aren't well informed.
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.nojailforpot.com/)
Microsoft didn't "cave" to Universal. To "cave" implies resistance. Microsoft and Universal have always been on the same page.
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Tuesday June 27 2006, @08:05AM)
How you can compare the DRM infested Zune with ODF is beyond me. One is an open document specification that could enable people on different OS, hardware, or software to exchange files, the other is a closed platform music player with DRM so restrictive that your entire music collection can auto-delete itself because you forgot to pay your monthly bill...
Apple has real competition already (Score:5, Insightful)
What has the Zune brought that's new? WiFi sharing that is so limited it does not exist, and the standard now that EVERY MP3 player going forward will be pressed by labels to pay a small fee just for the right to exist! Has the existance of the Zune REALLY improved the market in any way?
Competition is great, but Microsoft left the door wide open for the RIAA to get a foot in. For that alone they deserve endless scorn and market failure.
The #1 reason to hate the Zune (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Insightful)
As other have pointed out one billion times, Apple doesn't force restrictive DRM on anyone. You can use your iTunes and iPod without one illegal, low quality, DRM'd file.
Not one. I can buy 1000 CD's from my local music store, RIP them, and have iTunes synch them to my iPod und DRM'd, legally (unlike the Zune's software counterpart).
If you wish to purchase songs legally for download via the internets, iTunes not only has a far more sane DRM scheme than almost all others, but I've never fealt restricted by it. Not one bit. I can burn CD's, copy them to other computers (5 a year... do you need to reasonably have them on more?), and can even RIP those burned CD's to produce non-DRM'd iTunes purchased songs.
I have no idea why people still claim this.
Re:I don't know why people want it to fail so badl (Score:5, Informative)
(http://jeffnee.com/)
Returns (Score:5, Insightful)
Raises the question (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Saturday February 25 2006, @11:02PM)
IMO, it isn't exactly fair to compare "Zune" with "ALL of the iPods".
The Zune targets one small slice of territory that Apple has already staked out.
Not there yet (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a difference maker alright -WiFi Audio Sizzle (Score:5, Interesting)
Who's the "fanboy"? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday December 04 2006, @09:26PM)
Did anybody else stop reading after that?
Retail Only (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.markstewart.net/)
Considering the initial curiosity factor and Microsoft employees, I would have expected the initial uptake to have a bigger impact than even this. If they are starting at this low of a baseline... lets just say Creative and SanDisk probably don't have much to worry about.
I personally don't care (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait, huh? Oh crap, I forgot. Microsoft's "we'll-pay-you-an-'all-our-users-are-thieves'-tax
Damn...
irrelevant (Score:4, Insightful)
Certainly there was some base of people who wanted (some later to be usefull) wi-fi plus an FM receiver plus video at that price point. Microsoft advertized enough that these people knew about it, so they got it when they first had their chance. That group of people, however, is not particularly related to digital music player buyers as a whole, as it is only continuous purchases over its life span that will be untimately meaningful. Furthermore, this week was singled out from the Zune being the only new thing on the market. That they only got second when they were the only new thing around--for over a month or something?--is actually rather sad.
A more representative week would be, say, the week after Thanksgiving, which shows a lot about retail buying habits (and is a significant percentage of such).
Hypocrite (Score:5, Informative)
(http://ninenine.com/)
#2 First Week != #2 overall (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://forums.mtgnews.com/)
Amazon sales figures DID match (Score:4, Informative)
So the article is only telling us what we already knew from reviewing Amazon sales - sales were good the first week, when the media blitz worked but before word of mouth cooled opinion.
Its all downhill from the first week. (Score:3, Insightful)
Never a doubt that Zune would be number 2 (Score:5, Funny)
Zune not advertised as MS product? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.dognoodle99.cjb.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 16 2005, @10:50PM)
MS blew it (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple wasn't the first out to market with an mp3 player but unlike MS they did their research. Every new generation of Ipod gets better its interface is extremely easy to learn and use. Itunes is not bad and I went out and bought 5th gen video ipod just because of how easy it is to subscribe to podcasts (G4, SG, etc) and ease of keeping everything in sync.
I purchased the very second mp3 player that became commercially available in USA - Diamond Rio PMP300 in 1998 and Creative Lab's Nomad ][ a little bit later. Both were not great and the first suffered from slow transfer speed and second from just-ok interface but at least both products worked out of the box and I didn't have to wait a year for some feature that was promised to start working - NO wireless sync with PC(even my old motorola e680i phone can do this via bluetooth), crippled song "sharing" and no Vista support YET even though Vista is shipping in a month to PC manufacturers. Very rushed - feels like a pot-luck dinner.
Finally, I think MS blew it because they are a software company first and they couldn't even write (OR STEAL) something decent. They only had 10 year to sit there and watch everyone else do it. I feel bad for Toshiba, they didn't really need this.
I guess they didn't learn from Panasonic's 3DO fiasco where Trip Hawking tricked them into giving his company $100 million to blow on a video game system that didn't sell well.
Waiting for the T-Shirt (Score:3, Funny)
A new tag suggestion - "zuneral" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I bet the don't look at the Apple retail stores (Score:4, Funny)
(http://jeffnee.com/)
The favourite recipe of talentless journalists (Score:3, Insightful)
lol (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://web.lemuria.org/)
You mean, like the iPod sales being divided between 14 or so models and colours?
Yes, the zune's initial week was fairly good. If you read just a little further on any mainstream press article, however, you'll see that the total failure was attributed not to first week sales, but to the fact that after all the fanboys and easy-to-fool idiots had bought one, sales dropped to almost nothing. The same Amazon sales rank that was #2 in the first week was #13 in the second if I recall correctly. Right now, it's #60 [amazon.com], which definitely qualifies as "abysmal". The 4 GB silver nano [amazon.com], the lowest listed iPod model, beats it jumping on one leg with both hands tied behind its back (rank #15).
Sorry, MS fanboy, zune is as dead as a doornail and twice as hard to sell.
Reports be damned (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.connectivex.com/)
Re:What can brown do for you (Score:4, Informative)
Oh please. If I'm buying a music player, there are a few considerations:
Does it sound good?
Is it easy to navigate?
Can I transfer music realtively easily?
I don't give a tiny rats ass whether it's Linux or MS or Apple or some other dude. I don't care. And the unwashed masses buying these things care even less than I do.
Re:What can brown do for you (Score:4, Funny)
As long as it comes with BASH. Navigation made simple and intuitive.
I doubt it (Score:3, Informative)
(http://mysite.verizon.net/tkrotchko/)
Not likely. Despite the title of the article, go take a look at the actual sales rank of the MS-Zune players on Amazon. The black is #52, the rest are significantly below that (greater than 250). Sansa has a player in the top 10, and a 2nd one at number 11, Creative has a player in the top 20, Sansa has a couple more scattered around the top 100. Apple has players everywhere on this list. Everywhere.
Again, I urge folks to look at the actual Amazon site instead of reading articles about Amazon.
Here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/
Keeping in mind that the holiday is when a big portion of sales, unless MS drops the Zune prices down by about 40%, this this is headed for the bottom pretty quickly. While that's obviously my opinion, all you need to do is watch the trend of the player. Just the novelty of this thing should have kept it in the top 10 until xmas. But to fall to #52 in just a week is pretty amazing.