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Amazon Is a Go-To for Toilet Paper and Batteries. Can It Sell Cars? (wsj.com) 75

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Amazon aims to make online car purchases as seamless as getting everyday essentials. But it's not as easy as selling other items. WSJ: Car sales represent Amazon's next bet in e-commerce dominance and come after the Covid-19 pandemic made online car purchases more popular. Amazon executives want to make buying vehicles through its website as simple as purchasing toilet paper or dog food, and the company is looking to strike broad partnerships with carmakers. The company is set to face several challenges in expanding the program beyond a pilot phase for employees starting early next year: One is dealerships, which remain at the center of most new-car sales and depend on service revenue for profit incentives. A second will be trying to get customers who visit its website mainly for lower-priced items to turn to the platform for one of the biggest purchases of their lives. Amazon also will have to navigate different government regulations.

"Customers tell us it's really hard to buy a car," Fan Jin, Amazon's director of vehicle sales, said in an interview. Vehicle-buying software is fragmented, with dealers using a range of software providers. Varying regulations across states also make it difficult. "It's a process that we've heard time and again could use improvement, and we have an opportunity to go and prove it," she said. When the new service launches later next year, Amazon said shoppers will be able to complete every step of the car-buying process through its website. Only new Hyundai vehicles will be available at the start. Consumers will have different financing options, but the company said it is still working through details. Eventually, Amazon wants to expand to trade-in vehicles and used cars. Many dealers might be loath to accept a high volume of online sales because they make a significant amount of money on service and warranty deals that customers agree to when they finance a car purchase.
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Amazon Is a Go-To for Toilet Paper and Batteries. Can It Sell Cars? More

Amazon Is a Go-To for Toilet Paper and Batteries. Can It Sell Cars?

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  • Things I Hate More Than Amazon (Score:3)

    by pr0t0 ( 216378 ) on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @10:59AM (#64108905)

    1. Car Dealerships

    • at the dealer. Overpriced. Sometimes horrifically price gouging (demanding $20k for a $8k EV battery). But at least they'll fix the car.

      Amazon strikes me as the worst of both worlds. A sleezy business that'll sell you junk and that skimps on safety and quality.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by pr0t0 ( 216378 )

        A sleezy business that'll sell you junk and that skimps on safety and quality.

        Well, that is definitely true. Can't wait to see a car sold by "WANHOMETEKBBB", the exterior of which suspiciously looks exactly like a Honda Accord but is selling for 75% the MSRP.

        • That or people listing their old shitbox as a new dealer car. It’s going to happen. How will Amazon know you are a legit dealer?

          • You joke but my Mother in law just fell for that. A vrand new 2007 hess truck she grabbed for one of my kids. Orginial box orginial packing corroded batteries. Provided a clue.

            That and dirt.

            Someone sold it as new.

            Ah well the box is now trash and the truck is being driven by a three year old. And someones carefully kept collection is now a toy

            • If it really was a brand new 2007 Hess truck, I'd expect the batteries to be corroded. Those batteries were in the package for 16 years. Dirt is another matter.

      • Dealership mechanics don't generally repair parts. They swap in new parts. They are generally good at diagnostics, but the gap between what they can diagnose and what anyone else can has closed over the last 20 years.

        Rats chewed through your wiring harness? Dealer shop will order a new one and install it when it arrives. An independent mechanic might bill you for two hours of work repairing the harness and have you back on the road the next day.

        Rust bucket has a hole rusted through the floor or fender that

        • > Rats chewed through your wiring harness? Dealer shop will order a new one and install it when it arrives. An independent mechanic might bill you for two hours of work repairing the harness and have you back on the road the next day.

          Just had this experience. Dealer had my car for 3 days, found the bad harness for $1000. Wanted the cost of the new harness, plus several hours more labor, and several more days at the dealership. Independent shop fixed the bad harness and had me on the road the same day for

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          Dealership mechanics don't generally repair parts. They swap in new parts. They are generally good at diagnostics, but the gap between what they can diagnose and what anyone else can has closed over the last 20 years.

          Rats chewed through your wiring harness? Dealer shop will order a new one and install it when it arrives. An independent mechanic might bill you for two hours of work repairing the harness and have you back on the road the next day.

          Rust bucket has a hole rusted through the floor or fender that

      • Last time I went to a dealer for service they fucked it up. The instructions for the water pump said THIS IS A THREAD FORMING BOLT and the dumb fucks tapped the hole. The fucking bolt does that! It took two extra days because they apparently had no employees who could run a tap and had to have someone come in to do it.

        The idea that you will get competent service at a dealer is ignorant.

    • let me tell you a story... at the dealership, my fiancée had picked out the car she wanted (this was two cars ago) and we had talked with the salesman... so we got handed to the Finance Manager. My fiancée had not arranged financing on her own, since then she has learned to do so. The finance manager pushed a contract at her that was over $100/month (60 month loan) bigger than we had anticipated... this without discussion whatsoever, I guess he figured she would just sign what he pushed in her fac

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawk ( 1151 )

        I've bought new cars twice in my life.

        The first time, 2002, I was back east and entered what I wanted into a search engine. I soon had an email back from an internet manager that he could get me any ford van in that tri-state area for $99 over invoice.

        I talked to him; after a life in car sales, he loved this non-commission, non-negotiating gig. He sent me a fax (hey, it was 2002; scanners hadn't hit stride) with the couple of dozen that matched my specifics, filled out the financing (ford promotional) so

        • I used a broker once, back in the 80's, on the first ever new car I bought... Morons reported the PURCHASE on the bottom of the form they use for repossessions, in the "OTHER" category, so, whilst I was happily paying off my new car, it was reported as repossessed, which I didn't find out aboutuntil 3 years later when looking at financing for a house. The credit agencies would npt accept a letter from Ford Credit about this. So. I had that 'repossession' on my credit account for 7 years even though I had pa

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            I used a broker once, back in the 80's, on the first ever new car I bought... Morons reported the PURCHASE on the bottom of the form they use for repossessions, in the "OTHER" category, so, whilst I was happily paying off my new car, it was reported as repossessed, which I didn't find out aboutuntil 3 years later when looking at financing for a house. The credit agencies would npt accept a letter from Ford Credit about this. So. I had that 'repossession' on my credit account for 7 years even though I had paid the damn thing off after 3 years.

            Sounds like an open-and-shut libel suit to me. But too late now. The statute of limitations would have expired long ago.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        The only power you have as a consumer, and one you should always exercise, is the ability to walk away. If you're going after a new car, this is literally the easiest purchase in the world - if you cannot get what you want, go to another dealer. They can get you the exact same car and deal. If they won't deal, repeat. A new car is like any other new thing you can buy from Amazon or elsewhere. A dealership's sole reason for screwing you over is to try to wear you down so you give in. They hope they can wear

    • Do they have a Prime discount on cars?
  • Nationalizing the sale of cars to "online dealers" who fulfil from local stocks at or below MSRP depending on inventory per region. Cars can be replenished at the lowest path cost to the region over the timeframes of rail cars moving massive numbers of autos. The auto companies are in a position to take back partial ownership of the inventory, and with that they will scale down their model year changes that drove 150 day supplies and market adjustments. If the MSRP is incorrect high, the manufactur

  • service (Score:3)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:16AM (#64108957)

    When I'm spending the kind of money one spends on a car, I am not going to do business with a company that only offers a chatbot for customer service.

    • P.S. Amazon is a terrible place to get bulky lightweight items like toilet paper, and also small individual items like toothpaste. You are much better off at Target or Walmart, in person, for those things.

      • You are correct. Frequently I find Amazon to be more expensive than local stores. Plus their selection is always changing, availability is hit or miss.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          You are correct. Frequently I find Amazon to be more expensive than local stores. Plus their selection is always changing, availability is hit or miss.

          Frequently? You mean Amazon is sometimes cheaper? In my experience, Walmart is not only invariably cheaper (except when they're sold out of something and you get a scalper selling things at five prices), but also faster. They'll do same-day or next-day deliveries in tiny towns in the middle of nowhere, while Amazon usually takes three days.

        • The nearby Amazon Fresh store is the same, except that their store brand milk is cheaper in than the supermarket, and has the same dairy code as the local major brand (which is in the next case for 90 cents more).

      • Yep, I think the headline gets it wrong. If people do order these things online, they're ordering it from their local grocery or big box store, not Amazon. Amazon plays too many games with their pricing. Want to re-order that toilet paper you bought for $20 last time? Guess what, now it's $40, unless you re-search for the item and find another listing for the exact same thing, from the same seller, for the $20 you were expecting. And never mind that half your TP is mangled in shipment. It still works.

        • I have not found this to be the case with my subscribe and save (subscription) orders for Vanilla extract, HVAC air filters, Cat flea medication, and Cat food.

          Is it TP specifically where you've seen pricing funny business, or something else?

          • I haven't actually bought TP from Amazon. But I have bought cat litter and cat food. On numerous occasions, the cat litter would come with half the contents spilled into the outer box, or just spilled and gone. Other bulky items have also come damaged, including a computer. Small items like batteries, no issues so far.

      • I gotta worry about anyone who buys toilet paper online. If the person isn't an invalid it doens't make sense. And if the person is an invalid, there are services that deliver, sometimes it's free. I don't understand the thought process. They may drive past the store that sells the TP twice a day and then decide to pay a premium price to get it online ("oh, it's free, because I spend $200 a year in memberships", and "I don't want to drive to get just one thing, and there are several times a day I want to

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hawk ( 1151 )

          where did you get the idea that TP costs more online than locally?

          As much as I loathe Walmart, it's cheaper to have them shipper deliver than to buy in a store--even than to go in to Walmart, due to the kickback on the card.

          The $140 I pay a year eliminates at least two round trips a week--so two cold starts and two warm starts, which I figure are at least a buck each in wear. It also covers delivery of produce, cold, and frozen things in a truck equipped for them.

          And if you group your delivery orders for t

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawk ( 1151 )

        You don't even have to go in to Walmart for those better prices. Free delivery without walmart+ at $35, and generally (at least around here) faster than amazon.

        And 5% kickback for using the WM card in the online order (similar to amazon's house card).

        we dumped prime a couple of years ago, as Walmart had them lapped. At this point, we pay $140, I think, for Walmart's upgraded inhome--we don't have them bring it past the door (but they'll actually load refrigerator), but just not starting the car for a coup

  • used cars? caravan really fucked up the paper work on that one.
    and yes each state has it's own things to do so you do need people who job is to deal with the title paper work

  • Ever tried to buy car parts on Amazon? They have nice filters that let you shop for parts that are "guaranteed" to fit your vehicle, but when they arrive, you find out they don't actually fit.

    If they can't get car parts right, why would we trust them with...cars???

    • I made that mistake with a water pump. They shipped it in the thin cardboard box that’s only meant to sit on a shelf with zero padding. The box was half open and the machined surfaces were dinged up. Not worth the hassle trying to explain that to Indian phone support.

  • Trusting Amazon? (Score:3)

    by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:44AM (#64109019) Homepage

    Amazon has proven that it's more interested in selling you anything, from anybody, than in being a "store you can trust." I don't. I'm certainly not going to trust Amazon with a purchase as expensive as a car!

  • An automobile is not toilet paper (Score:3)

    by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:56AM (#64109051)

    >"Amazon Is a Go-To for Toilet Paper and Batteries. Can It Sell Cars?"

    Maybe. But not to me.

    There is a huge difference between $10 toilet paper and a $40k-70k car. I need to test drive and see it in person and play with the controls/UI and feel the seat/controls/positioning, listen to the stereo, feel the brakes and suspension and transmission and examine everything. Then I want to ask questions, hopefully to someone who knows the vehicle well and can show me things as well, especially things not disclosed in the specs. How is Amazon going to do all that?

    I have no great love of dealerships. But they serve some valid purposes. Maybe if you know exactly what you want or just don't care about such a HUGE expense.

    Two years ago I toyed with the idea of getting a new car. I spent hours doing research online. Even downloaded the user manual and read it front-to-back. Went to a dealership and was immediately shocked at how *horrible* the color was (one of those non-metalic, plastic-looking crap that is popular now). It was NOTHING like the online photos. Some things were better than I thought, others worse. Test drive was fine. Staff was very helpful. Loved the performance, style, and most of the features. But I just could not justify the incredible price because I wasn't overall extremely happy.

    • How about using those 70k to buy something useful instead, like an education for your kids, or a heat pump for your house.

      • How about using those 70k to buy something useful instead, like an education for your kids

        Ever think the reason they have that 70K is because they don't have kids?

        or a heat pump for your house.

        Who says they don't already have one? Should they buy another because you said so?
      • If you need a new HVAC system heat pumps are worth considering. If you have a functional HVAC system replacing it prematurely is likely to be a poor financial decision.

    • One problem with dealers is the sales model. This means they want to sell what is on the lot, and they want you to buy it now. They don't want you do get a different color if it's not on the lot, because that means you will leave the dealership, and if you do come back maybe some other sales "associate" will get the commission. They are highly reluctant to let you do special orders for that reason too.

      On the other hand, the dealers are also the same ones dealing with service most of the time (a bit more e

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        One problem with dealers is the sales model. This means they want to sell what is on the lot, and they want you to buy it now. They don't want you do get a different color if it's not on the lot, because that means you will leave the dealership, and if you do come back maybe some other sales "associate" will get the commission. They are highly reluctant to let you do special orders for that reason too.

        Weird. Most of the dealers I've worked with have been quite willing to horse-trade to swap a car on their lot for one on another dealer's lot to get the sale.

      • >"they want to sell what is on the lot, and they want you to buy it now."

        That is very true. And I tell them the moment I get there these four things:

        1) Color and trim are important and if they don't have what I want, I am willing to wait for them to order it or exchange stock.

        2) I am probably NOT going to buy right now.

        3) I am not interested in discussing financing until I am ready to buy and also agree to a price.

        4) I am not giving them my phone number.

        Only once did I ever have a problem with a dealer.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      >"Amazon Is a Go-To for Toilet Paper and Batteries. Can It Sell Cars?"

      Maybe. But not to me.

      There is a huge difference between $10 toilet paper and a $40k-70k car. I need to test drive and see it in person and play with the controls/UI and feel the seat/controls/positioning, listen to the stereo, feel the brakes and suspension and transmission and examine everything. Then I want to ask questions, hopefully to someone who knows the vehicle well and can show me things as well, especially things not disclosed in the specs. How is Amazon going to do all that?

      Not sure about where you live, but the TP on Amazon is more expensive than at the shop and lower quality. I've tried looking for things I don't care about the quality of, like kitchen towel but a large box of "industrial standard" kitchen towel (I.E. those blue rolls without perforations) is barely the same price as getting a decent roll from my local supermarket.

      The markets where Amazon made its mark, electronics, books and media were all underserved when Amazon went into the game, hence this is where i

  • Until laws change, Amazon is still just a broker for the dealerships, and you'll still have to go to one to complete the sale. No thanks. Until dealerships are removed from the equation I'm done buying new cars.

  • My go-to for toilet paper is the bathroom.

  • Toilet paper? (Score:3)

    by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:32PM (#64109155) Homepage Journal

    I'm a part of the Bidet Master Race you insensitive clod!

    • I pretty much have the miniaturized version of the gas station car wash. Spray, scrub, rinse, wax, blow-dry. I just back into the toilet until the green light turns red and then hold still.

  • Wait, are there statistics pointing to Amazon as a "go-to" for toilet paper and batteries? I can normally get the former cheaper (per unit) from a local store, and I guess the latter works fine for common sizes with a trusted seller (e.g., Amazon Basics AA cells), but I've had the wost luck ordering pretty much anything else (e.g., a seller confusing CR123As for CR2s and coming in a random plastic bag instead of manufacturer retail packaging).

    Not to distract from how awful the car-buying process can be...

  • Big families where everyone buys a new car every 3 years was an unsustainable American habit and is now a thing of the past.

    • that was back during what car pundits call the Malaise era, the 70-'s and maybe 80's. back then American cars were such junk (in general)... My mom needed a new car because stepdad had ruined her old one. she went to the stealership and bought (ordered) a brand new 1974 Malibu exactly optioned the way she wanted it. It came in in the wrong color and one shock absorber wasn't mounted at the bottom, just flapped around loose from the top bolt. Back then you needed a new car every 3 years because the American

      • Completely true. But they were mostly a captive market. So they'd sell crap because all the other cars on the market were crap. Earlly economy cars from Japan were crap too, though they got better fast. There was reluctance to retool or change; a reluctance you saw in other American manufacturers that lagged behind (steel for example).

        We briefly had a "K-Car", probably a worse car than even the Yugo. It had a warranty though, and we kept it as long as the warranty was good. It was in the shop every few w

        • Back then I had a charger 2.2 liter then a 1986 Daytona. I liked the Charger so much, it sold me on the Daytona, which, frankly, was a much nicer car than the 2.2 liter Charger. Yeah, back in the mid 70's the Japanese cars my friends had all had issues as well... a friend of mine purchased a 240Z and within about 2 years the rust was pretty bad on it. (Lived in New England back then) whilst my old 1972 Lincoln Towncar had none and was running fine... But my mom's Malibu? from the factory it came busted and

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hawk ( 1151 )

          >We briefly had a "K-Car", probably a worse car than even the Yugo.

          apparently, you never actually met a Yugo . . . :)

          hawk

          • True. However I still see a Yugo or two still on the road. I have never seen a K-Car after the 70s.

            Friends from former Soviet bloc tell me also that despite being a bad car, they all learned how to keep the Lada working over time.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by hawk ( 1151 )

              >However I still see a Yugo or two still on the road.

              Performance art.

              the ones that are moving are usually paper mache over Great Danes. :)

              Mechanically, they *are* rather simple--it was basically a '68 Fiat ('67?) built under license, without even fiat's miserable quality.

    • Big families where everyone buys a new car every 3 years was an unsustainable American habit and is now a thing of the past.

      Most people who want a new car every 3 years lease instead now.

  • Hell, not even batteries. I made the mistake of purchasing "Amazon Basics" batteries to give them a try about 8 years ago. Within a month every device I put them in was ruined by leaking battery acid. Some of the ones left in the pack were leaking too! Never again did I order batteries from Amazon. Amazon eventually got so horrible that starting 5 years ago I stay away completely. Amazon is a Chinesium cesspool.

  • It's still cheaper from the local Lumber Yard by about $3 for a 24-pack and that is before shipping. (Same brand)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hawk ( 1151 )

      >It's still cheaper from the local Lumber Yard

      err . . . personally, I prefer that my toilet paper leave the lumber yard to some place that makes it soft and even a bit fluffy before reselling it to me!

      eek!

      hawk

  • Buying a car from a dealership (aka stealership) is like dancing with a meth addicted cobra in 2023. 99% of the dealerships are pure scum, they exist solely to take money out of your wallet, waste your time and provide shitty service. Dealerships are legalized scams because they've lobbied for laws that protect them from being snuffed out and keep consumers from dealing direct with manufacturers. NADA (National Automobile Dealer Association) does most of the lobbying to prevent consumers from getting the be

  • Amazon TP costs double what it does at Walmart.

    Maybe Walmart should sell cars.

  • I'm considering buying a new car next year.
    I went to the mfr's site, spec'ed my car, and was presented a "fill this out to get a dealer quote".

    Dealer calls & asks "when can you come in to test drive?"
    I respond "I know what I want. Please send a quote."
    Dealer "Sorry, I don't know how to do that; I'll have someone call you"

    Next call same thing, except the ending is "Well, we'll have to have our sales mgr call you."

    Absolutely insane I can't even get a price on a product I want to buy.

    Back in the day, you'

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