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Popular Reddit App Apollo Would Need To Pay $20 Million Per Year Under New API Pricing (macrumors.com) 59

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Popular Reddit app Apollo might not be able to operate as is in the future due to planned API pricing that Reddit is implementing. From a report: Apollo developer Christian Selig was today told that Reddit plans to charge $12,000 for 50 million API requests. Last month, Apollo made seven billion requests, which would mean Selig would need to pay $1.7 million per month or $20 million per year to Reddit to keep the app running. The average Apollo user uses 344 requests per day, which would be priced at $2.50 per month, more than double the current subscription cost, or a sum that Selig is not able to afford. Right now, Apollo Pro is a one-time $4.99 fee that unlocks additional features, and Apollo Ultra is an even more premium tier that costs $12.99 per year.
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Popular Reddit App Apollo Would Need To Pay $20 Million Per Year Under New API Pricing More

Popular Reddit App Apollo Would Need To Pay $20 Million Per Year Under New API Pricing

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  • ...but it frankly sounds like his app is a bit of a free-rider on Reddit content.
    On the other hand, if it's that much better it's probably bringing users, or at least keeping users/activity that would have gone away due to reddit's fairly shitty front end.

    Maybe Reddit could
    a) buy him out and hire him to maintain apollo as a default reader for reddit
    b) then they could stop asking me to use THEIR FUCKING APP everytime I go to reddit.

    • Re:I don't have a horse in this race (Score:5, Funny)

      by NobleNobbler ( 9626406 ) on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @02:51PM (#63565325)

      You make some good points. *This message fades into the background and forces a popup modal in your face*

    • Re:I don't have a horse in this race (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bhcompy ( 1877290 ) on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @02:55PM (#63565337)

      ...but it frankly sounds like his app is a bit of a free-rider on Reddit content.

      And web browsers aren't?

      • Technically no. Reddit gets ad revenue from browser access.
        • There's absolutely no reason Reddit couldn't serve ads through the API. The ads they serve through the browser and in the official app look like posts already.
          • Very true. But that's not the current reality.
            • That's their choice, just like charging obscene amounts for the API. I think they'll end up with the same problem that Twitter is currently having and the issue that killed Digg in favor of Reddit years ago
          • Actually, it might not even be that easy. The ads are served by 3rd parties, not from Reddit sure itself. Sure you could build yet more infrastructure to do that but by default, reddit doesn't have access to the ads to serve them

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Paxtez ( 948813 )

              In theory the API agreement could specify that APIed ads must be displayed (or your API key is revoked), and then with that assurance sell the APIed ads and impressions for the ad-buyers.

              The 3rd party app makers could maybe even get a cut of click-throughs, as an encouragement to make the ads stand out.

              • All things that *could* exist but don't. Again, the API is created a time when a service is relative small and growing. Adding *more* work to make the API *less* attractive to 3rd party people isn't a likely positive business case at that point.

                The API is a tool that reddit (and every other social media company) uses to generate more interest and (un-monetized) traffic.

                They have every right to change the terms, but not without valid criticism that they are punishing some of the very people who helpe
          • ...which probably points to the solution - ads in the free api, no ads in paid api.

            That's assuming the free api still offers any advantage over the existing free api, which is https

      • Do you know any web browsers that are collecting subscription fees for accessing reddit?

        • There are plenty of apps that aren't. If browser developers wanted to charge, they could. Some tried years back. Didn't work very well as a model.
    • 3rd party clients don't exist unless the owner allows them. I.e. they provided the API to build user base and leverage literal free development work by the 3rd party tool makers. Having reaped millions in gains from this deal they are now altering the terms further. It's BS to harvest the success of 3rd parties and then pull the access out from them. It's also tried and true behavior by companies who make it big.

    • You aren't wrong.

      Reddit basically has two directions they can go:

      - improve their own app and compete on merits, generating more impressions and thus ad revenue;
      or
      - start charging money for API access to people who make better versions of the Reddit app than Reddit is apparently capable of, in order to suppress competition

      I guess we know which one they chose.

      • If your business model relies on the kindness of another company, then you will always fail.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by CreepingDeath ( 17019 )

          The thing is, if I can no longer access reddit via RIF; I'm not going to switch to their app; I'm going to stop visiting reddit other then though google searches for specific things. The official app is horrid (same goes for old.reddit.com; when that stops working, its as dead as digg to me)

        • Except...reddit's business model relies on user submitted content and free user supplied moderation. Many of these moderators use third party apps to moderate. It seems reddit is in the very position you are warning about.

        • Similarly, if your business model relies on user-submitted content (read: Reddit), and you go and piss off a significant portion of your user base by being a greedy asshole while at the same time significantly diminishing the user's experience, guess what happens to your business?

          This is some critically short-term think on the part of Reddit, and it seems like they're trying to chase Twitter down the drain doing the same stupid shit.

        • Not so much "kindness" as taking a shitting presenting product and dressing it up so that users get useful content out of an otherwise shitshow of a website. It's very much pulling a "Musk" and killing 3rd party access. Ads would be unwelcome, but possibly an acceptable (if done in a tasteful way) compromise.

    • Re:I don't have a horse in this race (Score:5, Interesting)

      by crmarvin42 ( 652893 ) on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:12PM (#63565379)
      I bought Apollo. Reddits app sucks in my experience. I downloaded Apollo at the recommendation of a friend, and I like it quite a bit more. Since that time, the reddit web interface on mobile has gotten even worse. The pop-ups suggesting I use the app are part of the issue, the other is a bug which causes the page to not scroll when I swipe most of the time (I think it has to do with the size of my screen, since I don't have the issue on my iPad, only my iPhone Mini).

      If I have to go back to the reddit app (particularly since the web pushes you towards the app at every opportunity) I'll likely visit the site a WHOLE lot less.

      At the end of the day, this is just further enshitification [wiktionary.org] of the web in the interest of every increasing profits for share-holders. It's smart, since it focuses mostly on those not generating content, but this will not be the end. After they kill all 3rd party clients, they'll up the ad:content ratio to the max, and degrade user experience once they convince themselves that the users have no-where else to go. Then the users will migrate to a new startup, and start the cycle of enshittification all over again.

      If there were a company that could see past share-value, the cycle could stop and they could make a good profit indefinitely, but share-holders don't care about long-term viability as much as they do about share price in the next 30 days.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jaa101 ( 627731 )

        the reddit web interface on mobile has gotten even worse

        Use old reddit [reddit.com]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Anil ( 7001 )

          I'm assuming old.reddit will be the next thing to go after this. And along with it any remaining reddit enhancement suite usability..

      • Reddit's mobile interface is the worst example of enshitification I have ever seen. It constantly harasses you with pop-up modals for the app. It randomly reloads for no reason. It displays the same content over and over. At a certain point it will literally just stop working and tell you to deal with it or use the app. It must be miserable to work there.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      This seems a little fishy. Reddit's API rules currently say:

      We're happy to have API clients, crawlers, scrapers, and browser extensions, but they have to obey some rules:
      - Please ensure that all API clients follow Reddit's API terms
      - Clients must authenticate with OAuth2
      - Clients connecting via OAuth2 may make up to 60 requests per minute. Monitor the following response headers to ensure that you're not exceeding the limits:

      Reddit's post announcing they were going to charge explicitly say that they're fine

    • Apollo is the only ecosystem specific app I miss after I switched to Android. it's by far and beyond the best reddit client there is. the amount of customization it offers is great, the dev is a great guy, and it's worth the money.

    • I hate the Reddit app i try to use a browser when I can, but I may try out Apollo.

    • $0 per year may be a free rider. $20 million is an unserious offer.

      Reddit claimed $350 million/year revenue in 2021 and 52 million daily users. That gives us an estimate of $7/year value generated per user.

      The average API cost per Apollo user would be $2.50 month.

      While it is likely that an Apollo user would be worth more than an average Reddit user, do you find it plausible that an Apollo user is worth more than 4x the average Reddit user?

  • so if this requires doubling of the monthly subscription it means the app is making around 20M per year already. Not bad. He can probably do a volume discount deal, bring it down by 50% or so, double the monthly subscription, lose up to 50% of the clients (probably less) and keep going.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cinder6 ( 894572 )

      That 20M per year includes free users. In order to remain profitable, he'd have to drop all free use from the app as well as double his current subscription price.

    • The majority of Apollo users are not Apollo subscribers. They offer several tiers.
      - Completely free version with a lot of valuable features turned off,
      - One time fee for some features (where I sit)
      - Subscription tier(s) for more powerful features for power users

      This is not asking for a piece of the pie, this is a push to kill Apollo since it does not show Reddit's ads. The transaction price quoted above *IS* the volume discount price. There may be some room for negotiation, but only if you believe the p

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dirk ( 87083 )

        "this is a push to kill Apollo since it does not show Reddit's ad"
        Up until this, I was feeling bad for Apollo. But they are basically scraping Reddit content and then serving it up and asking people who want to to pay them for the content while Reddit isn't getting paid. Sure, the Reddit app may suck (I try to avoid Reddit as much as possible, so I wouldn't really know), but this app isn't just making the content more accessible, it is also removing how they can afford to make the content available at all.

        • Re: 20M per year (Score:4, Interesting)

          by crmarvin42 ( 652893 ) on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @06:46PM (#63565975)
          Dial it back a bit.

          Reddit offered those APIs for developers of their own free will. Apollo isnâ(TM)t âoescrapingâ anything. They are using offered tools for the intended use. Including the lack of ads.

          Reddit offered those APIs as they did because they wanted devs, like Apollo, to help them grow their site. A better UI means more engagement, more content, and more ads sold against the content served up on their site, or via their own app. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

          itâ(TM)s not in the /. summary, but based on some VERY GENEROUS (to Reddit) math, they are requesting 20x more revenue per user from Apollo than Reddit makes per user. Thatâ(TM)s not about clawing back a fair percentage. Thatâ(TM)s about eliminating business partners without having to officially ban use of the APIs. Itâ(TM)s Twitter all over again

          to be clear, they have every right to do this, but I donâ(TM)t have to like it, and I donâ(TM)t have to pretend their motivations are fair or honestly stated. Itâ(TM)s a Dick move to do, but it is a diseased and openly weeping dick move to pretend itâ(TM)s about fair compensation when itâ(TM)s actually about putting business partners out of business in order to get all the profits.

  • What if people paid Reddit in Bitcoin?

  • Soon Reddit will become the next Digg due to bad business decision. I refuse to use their app because its trash, been using the reddit is fun app for the last 7 years, maybe longer. When that app stops working, I'm done with reddit. It's a damn shame a good reddit alternative hasn't been sustainable, I remember they tried with voat but it never received the same love.

    • ycombinator is pretty good, as is mastodon. The key to mastodon is that if it's boring you're not following the right people, but they're out there and it's possible to find them!

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I don't come to /. because I give a damn about a particular individual, "small minds discuss people"

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by narcc ( 412956 )

      Reddit is just a bunch of internet message boards all hosted on the same site. We were better off when things weren't centralized.

  • I use a different app to access reddit, but I expect the idea is the same: Better interface, and no ads.

    It's obvious that this is freeloading. It's obvious that reddit wants - indeed needs - to charge money for access. Whether the prices quoted are reasonable? It depends a lot on how efficient their API is. Does loading the homepage involve one query or a thousand? I don't know and I'm not going to look into it.

    The big picture is really the same everywhere: ad-based services are a plague. Almost no one wa

  • It would be idiotic of Reddit to put Apollo out of business over API pricing. They could be profitable by charging $120 for 50M API calls.

    • This is not about Apollo, they literally give zero shits about Apollo...

      This is about AI. They want to cash in on reddit as a data supplier for building AI training sets. Their data is a gold mine for AI, and they have to charge a lot per request for this use case to make it profitable, because in the AI world you generally only need to retrieve a particular post once.

      Apollo is just caught in the middle imo. These API fees are just not reasonable for someone who sells a 3rd party general access client like

  • end goal is to kill off third-party apps (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ebunga ( 95613 ) on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @05:09PM (#63565773)

    They think they are jackpotting reddit. They are actually killing it.

    Third-party apps exist because the official reddit app is garbage, but it's the only one that will non-consensually touch you in the face with advertisements and sell even more of your life to marketing and advertising companies and the slightly less harmful hostile foreign intelligence agencies. They want third-party apps gone. However, these absolute idiots don't understand that the users are what give their platform its value. They are following in the footsteps of the genius running twitter.

    • What Reddit knows and what their users don't understand is that reddit users aren't going anywhere, whether or not they're forced onto the official app. Most of them are all bark and no bite and they're all too addicted to the platform and nothing is coming to take its place like reddit did to Digg so many years ago. It was a different time then.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hazem ( 472289 )

        What Reddit knows and what their users don't understand is that reddit users aren't going anywhere,

        Sure they will. A ton of Reddit users were Digg refugees when Digg did what Reddit's starting to do about 11 years ago. As soon as Reddit makes it hard to see and do what you want, people will go elsewhere. Reddit recently killed their mobile web versions (i.reddit.com and adding .compact) and now they're going after the 3rd party apps that people like. I've all but stopped using Reddit on my phone because it's unusable now.

        If you haven't heard of Digg, there's a reason for that. It looks like the Redd

    • Third-party apps exist because the official reddit app is garbage

      This situation, and this comment, brought me out of Slashdot retirement. Congratulations.

      The Official Reddit mobile app was a third party app called Alien Blue [wikipedia.org], and it was quite good and popular. Reddit worked very hard to make it as shitty as it is today.

  • The only time I'm on Reddit is when a search or posted link takes me there. I won't even notice the change. Did it ever improve on Digg? I'm not sure.

  • And all of this is why.

    • old.reddit.com is only.reddit.com

      old.reddit is a visual nightmare, cluttered to hell and requiring more time to read. I wish people would stop labeling it as some godsend alternative.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ebunga ( 95613 )

        The best part about the new design is that when one post ends, there are thirty great recipes for eggs. Take a look at this cool dog.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      Eventually, Reddit will get rid of its old web design. :(

  • Several second and third tier developers have built entire economies monetising access to otherwise free content through these APIs. However, recently we have see the owners of popular social media platforms like Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc. start to restrict or limit free access to their public APIs. Sometimes it is in the name of limiting unrestricted access to personal or private information, sometimes it is in the name of controlling the cost of running the cloud infrastructure providing the APIs, so

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