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Microsoft

Microsoft Unveils Surface Pro 9 With Choice of Intel or ARM Models, No Headphone Jack (theverge.com) 79

Posted by BeauHD from the courage dept.
Earlier today, Microsoft unveiled three new Surface computers: the Surface Pro 9, Surface Laptop 5, and Surface Studio 2+. While this year's Surface Pro 9 remains very similar to last year's Surface Pro 8, it's being offered with refreshed Intel 12th-gen CPUs or a "new 5G-equipped model with a custom SQ 3 Arm chip," reports Engadget. From the report: If that sounds confusing to you, well, it is. We last saw the company's SQ chip in the 2020 Surface Pro X, a computer that we found both beautiful and frustrating, thanks to Windows' crummy software compatibility with Arm chips. To shift that problem over to a computer with the same name as its Intel sibling is a recipe for disaster. (We can just imagine the frustrated Best Buy shoppers who are dazzled with the idea of a 5G Surface, only to learn they can't run most of their traditional Windows apps.) The 5G Pro 9 is also broken down into millimeter-wave and Sub-6 variants, which will be sold in their respective markets. It's understandable why Microsoft isn't keen to keep the Surface Pro X moniker going -- the Pro 8 lifted many of its modern design cues, after all. But from what we've seen, Windows 11 doesn't solve the problems we initially had with the Pro X. After analyzing the product's tech specs, The Verge discovered that the Surface Pro 9 no longer appears to have a headphone jack. From the report: This seems to be the direct result of Microsoft bringing the Intel and Arm versions of the Surface Pro 9 together in the same chassis. The Surface Pro X has never had a 3.5mm jack, so now, the Intel hardware is coming in line with that design direction. But I'd argue it's a more controversial omission this time. Why? The new universal outer enclosure is essentially the same size as that of the Surface Pro 8.

The Surface Pro X hardware was quite a bit thinner than Microsoft's Intel hardware at the time (and still now). So excising the 3.5mm jack made sense. But we've now lost the headphone jack for a chassis that's basically identical in dimensions to last year's model. They really couldn't fit one on there somewhere? Further reading: Microsoft's Surface Studio 2 Plus Ships With an RTX 3060 for $4,299
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Microsoft Unveils Surface Pro 9 With Choice of Intel or ARM Models, No Headphone Jack More

Microsoft Unveils Surface Pro 9 With Choice of Intel or ARM Models, No Headphone Jack

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  • I feel a disturbance in the force (Score:3)

    by illogicalpremise ( 1720634 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:10PM (#62961589)

    The advertising is strong with Microsoft today, and a million slashdotters cried out in despair.

    I for one welcome our overpriced laptop overlords and look forward to the day when I too can pay thousands of dollars for overpriced garbage with missing features and moderate performance per dollar. Without ads masquerading as news I might even miss out!

    • Yeah. We've got Surfaces in the soil lab at work - apparently they survive the dust, abuse, and time in the field better than anything else they've tried. It's an intriguing device, and I could see real long-term potential for the form factor, but *argh* the implementation details... mean, seriously - one USB port? I could forgive almost everything else, but there's no excuse for a computer with so little standard connectivity.

      I can only thank Microsoft for completely removing another important port, m

      • With USB devices and cables dangling, it wouldn't be much of a portable tablet+laptop. That is probably why the Surface Dock has 4 USB ports and a single cable for power and USB. Maybe that could work in your lab?

        (disclosure : I have one Dock for 2 Surfaces)

        • A dock is great when you want to sit down at your desk and turn your tablet into a computer... and that's about it. When you're constantly moving around it only makes the cable problem worse. Which is a huge chunk of a typical day. And it's *definitely* not much help out in the field.

          We've got lots of different, expensive, and sometimes quite dated equipment that we need to get data from - scales, compression machines, gyratory compactors, nuclear density gauges, etc. And lots of different people using

          • What a royal PITA

            One of my Surfaces has 1 USB A and one USB C, so maybe what you need in your life is a bunch of docks around the lab *and* a few C to A adapters.

            Good luck, sounds like you need it :D

          • Have you considered buying a handful of USB splitter cables and plugging them onto your accessories so that no matter what you plug in, there will be a spare port? I'd use tape or heat shrink to keep them from walking away from the mouse or keyboard they are attached to though...

            • It might help some, but the real problem is that the primary thing you always want plugged in is your mouse - pretty much everything else is only plugged in for a minute or two to download data.

              And since you don't want a splitter hanging off the side of the laptop as you move around the lab, that means shuffling things around every time you want to plug something else in... and did I really leave my mouse dongle at the far end of the lab again?

    • The advertising is strong with Microsoft today

      It's almost like there was a Microsoft annual hardware event on this week or something...

  • meh! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:13PM (#62961595)
    I few years ago removing the jack would have really pissed me off, but now it is either USB headsets or wireless headphones and earbuds, haven't used the headphone jack in a few years now so it really wouldn't affect my purchasing decision anymore. Not that I would be buying one of these at the moment anyway.

    • Re:meh! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @11:36PM (#62961813)
      It's not about headphones. It's about being able to plug the computer in to any set of audio hardware made in the past 75 years and have it output sound. And Bluetooth speakers still sound like tinny shit compared to a proper audio system.

      • It's about being able to plug the computer in to any set of audio hardware made in the past 75 years and have it output sound. And Bluetooth speakers still sound like tinny shit compared to a proper audio system.

        Indeed backwards compatibility is an important feature. But how often do you end up in this situation? My parents visited my place for the first time in years recently so I showed off to my father my Klipsch Heresy's (which I bought second hand 20 years ago), plugged into a JVC amp of a vintage I never looked up, but it has a brushed stainless front and wooden paneling if that is any hint, and spun a nice modern record on my Rega turntable which dates back to the 70s. It was great, but the music tastes didn

        • Bluetooth codecs have their problems, but if they sound "tinny" then the problem lies with your setup. 99.9% of people couldn't tell the difference between even SBC and lossless, to say nothing of the better codecs bluetooth uses.

          Nonsense, SBC is garbage and the difference is absolutely trivial to discern.

          SBC is a bit starved low complexity codec that sucks ass. There are hacks to solve this by simply using more bits yet they are subject to arbitrary compatibility issues and have never been deployed in any meaningful way.

          • Nonsense, SBC is garbage and the difference is absolutely trivial to discern.

            And I absolutely agree with you. But the fact of the matter remains that 99.9% of people are completely and utterly tone deaf, happily listening to their shitty 64kbps DAB+ digital radios, or streaming video on Youtube to get their music at 128kbps.

            We are a cut above the rest, but general purpose hardware is not made with us in mind nor targeted at us.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • I only use analog headphone jacks save for the bluetooth headset my work bought me for remote. All my current equipment has it and I see no reason to suffer with the terrible user experience of BT on my Windows, Linux, and Android systems. If I buy a device that has no headphone jack, no problem, I don't need audio output from it all that badly. The whole multimedia desktop thing has been a distraction, and I'll save time not screwing around with setting up audio or trying to stream youtube or podcasts whil

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Joviex ( 976416 )

      I few years ago removing the jack would have really pissed me off, but now it is either USB headsets or wireless headphones and earbuds, haven't used the headphone jack in a few years now so it really wouldn't affect my purchasing decision anymore. Not that I would be buying one of these at the moment anyway.

      Cool story. Show me professional headphones using USB or Bluetooth.

  • Finally 3.5mm is dead! (Score:5, Funny)

    by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:14PM (#62961597)
    This is great news! I love having to mess around in Bluetooth menus and holding down buttons for 5 seconds and hoping it connects, instead of just plugging in my headphones. It's a really great experience!

    Oh, what's that? I have to buy $300 Surface Earbuds to get the full experience? Sold!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kiyooka ( 738862 )

      Buy now, and get TWO free instances of batteries dying on your bluetooth headset midway through a Teams call where speakers would disturb others!

      • And this is why I have 2 sets of airpods.

        And it occurs to me... They've won, haven't they?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by narcc ( 412956 )

          You could just buy stuff with a headphone jack.

          • You could just buy stuff with a headphone jack.

            No thanks, I like being mobile during meetings. Go make some coffee, etc.

            Plus, seriously- it's 2022. Cords suck.

    • And when you plug in a 3.5mm jack, you have to hope you don't have to play the "rotating game". Don't hear anything? Rotate the plug in the jack until you hear something. And hear some static as you rotate it.

      • This is usually caused by a broken connection in the cord - insufficient soldering, crimping, stress relief, whatever.

        I've found it's usually a sign that the headphones are not long for this world. It's why for expensive headphones I'd look for a replaceable cable.

        I've had enough wired headsets die from broken cables that it's a toss-up for wireless breaking first.

        Now if only they'd fix the bluetooth specs enough that you could get both high quality sound AND a microphone worth something.

        I understand that

  • So many ear buds need to be charged with usb3.

    • Never since all 5 slashdotters still using 3.5mm don't generate an appreciable amount of e-waste.

  • But we've now lost the headphone jack for a chassis that's basically identical in dimensions to last year's model. They really couldn't fit one on there somewhere?

    Ya they could, but then they couldn't charge you extra for a dongle or Bluetooth earbuds.

    • Also, don't Bluetooth earbuds and headphones suffer from lag when you are watching a video? Or, has that been fixed?

      • There are a variety of codecs out there, many of them low-latency. Bluetooth hasn't had discernible lag for years.

  • Is the Qualcomm chip worth a damn yet? If so that would be an awesome machine if equipped with ARM. But if Qualcomm still is offering a glorified phone chip that can't compete with the almost 2 year old M1 it probably is worth waiting. Intel in a Surface is a no go for me. I prefer chips that stay cool without being under clocked but that perform on par with Intel.
    • What do you think is running all the phones, tablets, and VR headsets? Yeah, it's not really going to compete with an Intel chip, especially if it has to emulate Intel instructions.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        What do you think is running all the phones, tablets, and VR headsets? Yeah, it's not really going to compete with an Intel chip, especially if it has to emulate Intel instructions.

        I think the question was more like is it like an Apple Mac with an M1 processor in performance or is it like the many ARM Windows laptops that basically sucked.

        Supposedly the M1s Intel emulation is extremely decent as well.

        The main problem I see is Qualcomm itself - ever since they went 64-bit, their Cairo processors were really

    • 12th gen works fantastically in ultra-thin form factor devices.
      I was super skeptical, but when I bought my wife a new Spectre x360 with the U-spec chip, that thing never even turns on its damn fan, unless Windows is updating.

      Now, it's no M1 in performance, but it's also not far behind one- but I bet it's a damn well better performing than the QC chip.

    • To heck with raw performance - if you want to run real software, you still pretty much need Intel-compatible. 95% of Android-oriented software is just toys, with approximately 0% of desktop-compatible software is available for ARM.

      I mean, in principle you could put Linux on them to make them actually useful, but a dismaying number are locked down so hard that it's just not worth the trouble. And you're still facing the fact that something like 99+% of non-OSS "real" software is only available for Intel. A

  • Given all the glue holding this thing together some is bound to eventually find its way into the headphone jack and fowl it up.

  • I would like the Microsoft SQ Arm chip one but WITHOUT the 5G and save the extra $300.

    The Microsoft SQ chip with emulation runs most applications just fine.

    Why can't they just give us this same Surface without the stupid 5G?!

  • I'm genuinely curious, what is the use case of a "Surface"?

    At the sort of price range these things are in, it seems you can get pretty much anything that's better.

    And removing headphone jacks needs to stop.. Why would I want to buy a different set of headphones than the ones I have?

    Then again, I'm almost certainly not the target audience for these things anyway, hence my question..

    • Everybody I worked with did all their work on a Surface laptop, back when I worked at Microsoft. I've never bought one myself because yeah, their expensive. Microsoft is trying to compete with Apple, not with Dell. Like many other products, Microsoft marketing just copied what Apple did.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by vivian ( 156520 )

        So your office had people working 42% less effectively as they could compared to having a dual monitor setup? Doesn't sound very cost effective. If you are plugging a docking station and a couple of full size monitors into it, you might just as well use an ordinary laptop that supports plugging in two monitors directly, or a traditional desktop system.

        https://www.tworivercomputer.c... [tworivercomputer.com]

        • I was using a Dell connected to a cheap docking station, since as a contractor my laptop was supplied by my contracting company, not by Microsoft. Most newer laptops can drive dual monitors through the USB-C connector; can't the Surface laptops do that as well?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

      I'm genuinely curious, what is the use case of a "Surface"?

      "Better" at what? It sounds like you don't know the use case and yet you're already declaring an alternative "better".

      It's smaller than a laptop, more functional than a tablet, and runs a full windows OS. It's a unique use case for those people who want a lot but don't want to carry around a full laptop. I won't lie, I'm a fan of them. We've got 5 in this household and my SP5 is borderline failing after years of abuse so I will likely upgrade again.

      It's not the cheapest in its form factor, but then the chea

    • Re:Use Case? (Score:4, Informative)

      by turp182 ( 1020263 ) on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:50AM (#62962267) Journal

      I can answer this. I have a Surface Pro 8. It's an "over-priced mid-range keyboard-less Windows laptop." And that's exactly what I want (excepting the overpriced part)

      * I want a portable format.
      * I HATE laptop keyboards and trackpads. 100% of the time on external user interface hardware.
      * I don't want to have a separate tablet (for those purposes).

      Surface Pro hits all of this. It performs everything I need excepting large video editing and 3D development in Unity. I wouldn't expect it to do that, I have more powerful systems for those use cases.

      Anyway, it's a full computer in a t'laptop format. I BYOKB, having two sets of bluetooth keyboard/mice combos, I can just walk to a location, flip a couple of power switches, and I have a full system (the fixed keyboard/mouse is in the office, the other travels with the tablet).

      Full computer means VS 2022 Ultimate, PowerDirector, Adobe CS5 suite (Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects), FL Studio.

      Via a USB hub I can connect audio equipment (Midi interfaces, keyboards, audio interfaces/preamps), up to three at a time. Triple extended monitors. Add a powered external monitor and I have extended monitors while camping (add 5G and I'm 100% functional anywhere for local or remote client development/design).

      OBS Studio runs fine for studio stye video production\/streaming (with externa DSLR camera, mic, etc., MIDI control board for OBS automation, etc.).

      Phonelink and the whiteboard are very cool (white board while extending monitors is really neat except for the monitor cable).

      Battery life is poor in reality. I'm accept that (external battery packs with PD charging resolve this). I don't mind having a bunch of accessories (I like this, I can choose these). I use the armored case with a strap and handle, not the MS keyboard/cover thing. I want a tablet all of the time with a keyboard and mouse on the desk in front of it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sremick ( 91371 )

      A glued-shut, non-upgradeable, unrepairable fashion-statement device with a 50% failure rate?

      Zero use case.

      But Microsoft pays a shitload for product placement in TV shows and movies, so just like Apple people want to look like those famous people.

  • "You can always use Bluetooth!" (Score:3)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @10:17PM (#62961741)
    Yeah, the battery life of Bluetooth headsets sucks for both charge depletion time and the length of time before the non-replaceable batteries fail entirely, forcing you to buy a new headset.

    • Yeah, the battery life of Bluetooth headsets sucks for both charge depletion time and the length of time before the non-replaceable batteries fail entirely, forcing you to buy a new headset.

      Huh? What kind of rubbish are you buying? My 7 year old headphones which I use daily for teams calls literally still last an entire intercontinental flight including security at the airport on a single charge.

      I know some people listen to music while they sleep and thus can't charge their headphones at night, but that's not a use case for everyone.

      Seriously if you have battery life issues, get a warranty claim on them. Most headphones have more battery life than there are hours in a day. Most earbuds come cl

  • Its the only explanation i have for them to completely drop AMD.

    Be careful AMD, maybe Xbox is next.

    • I can think of a few reasons.
      AMD has traditionally had more software quirks with their drivers. There is a lag in the alteration of that perception.
      Plus, there are no AMD parts that really compete with the 12th gen Intel laptop parts.

      Be careful AMD, maybe Xbox is next.

      Not unless Intel can pull an IGP out of their ass that can compete with the RDNA2 IGPs.
      I got a Steam Deck recently, and the most impressive part is not the CPU- which is pretty lackluster- but the GPU.
      It's fucking incredible for an IGP.

    • Its the only explanation i have for them to completely drop AMD.

      The fact that AMD's laptop parts are underperforming rubbish is not a good explanation? Look I love AMD as much as the next fanboi. Definitely keeping my main system AMD. The price performance ratio is amazing compared to Intel's desktop junk. But on a laptop, not so. Microsoft tried AMD on their Surface lineup and the resulting system got panned for poor performance and poor battery life. AMD has a long way to go in the low power space. The closest competitor to what is offered here in the Surface Pro 9 is

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        The fact that AMD's laptop parts are underperforming rubbish is not a good explanation?

        That is really nonsense. Have you looked at what AMD has there these days?

        • That is really nonsense. Have you looked at what AMD has there these days?

          Yes. I literally quoted you the "these days" in my post comparing the most like for like models.

          Even the latest Ryzens do not offer anywhere near the power saving features that Intel's mobile processors do. They aren't competitive, and that's okay. Not everyone needs to be the best at everything and it's unrealistic to expect such.

        • The i7-1265U lays waste to the R5 4600U at the same TDP.
          +30% Cinebench R15 multi-core, +42% Cinebench R15 single core.

          That isn't to say that the 4600U is a bad part. It's not. It's not just competitive with current 12th gen U-series parts.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by gweihir ( 88907 )

            Maybe you have missed this, TDP is irrelevant for battery endurance. And you may also have missed that I can get a 4600U with 16GB, Full HD 500GB, NVME from Lenovo for $800, while something similar with an i7-1265U is about 2x that. Talk about comparing apples to oranges...

            • TDP is irrelevant for battery endurance.

              lol. Pure fucking nonsense.
              It certainly doesn't tell you what your idle time will be, but it absolutely gives you an idea of what the power consumption of the CPU is under normal (non-boosted) workloads.

              And you may also have missed that I can get a 4600U with 16GB, Full HD 500GB, NVME from Lenovo for $800, while something similar with an i7-1265U is about 2x that.

              We weren't discussing what you can get on a budget. We were discussing what the best mobile CPUs were in 2022 for inclusion in this high-end laptop.

              But I'll play your game. Let's go apples to apples. The 2022 Lenovo IdeaPad 5.
              Coming with the low-end i5-1235U, which is comparable in formance to a 4600U (d

  • I was not really thinking of buying one anyways. With these severe design-flaws I am not even remotely tempted now.

  • A headphone jack probably costs them cents in parts. Literally cents. And wired headsets are cheap and easy to use.

    But hey, let's get rid of it! Microsoft must be hoping that by being petty assholes they can stiff people with expensive accessories - bluetooth headphones, port replicators or at least an earjack dongles.

  • If you do your part to buy something different, and this product rots on the shelf, it will send them a message.

    • Yep voted with my money already by filling out a pre-order form. My older Surface Pro has battery life issues, time for a new one.

      Not sure what you have against the product though ... show me on this doll where the Surface Pro touched you. I mean you must have been abused by it to have such deep seeded hate for something that you don't simply ignore it and move on with your life right?

  • It seems like only yesterday, I was working at a company where we were rolling out the brand new Surface Pro 4 and still using dock adapters so Surface Pro 3 docks worked with them.

    Sadly, I'm not sure these units feel all that different than those 4's did, back then. They essentially just put in the latest generation of CPU and maybe change the case's color or what-not, and call it a day. (Well, now you lose this headphone jack too, I guess.)

    I dunno. I liked the Surface Pro as far as it performing just lik

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