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AI

Can AI Help Casinos Cut Down on Problem Gambling? (nytimes.com) 74

Posted by EditorDavid from the taking-a-gamble dept.
The New York Times looks at Mindway AI, a company that predicts future problem gambling. Built using research at Aarhus University by its founder, Kim Mouridsen, the company uses psychologists to train A.I. algorithms in identifying behaviors associated with problem gambling. One significant challenge is that there is no sole indicator of whether someone is a problem gambler, said Rasmus Kjærgaard, Mindway's chief executive. And at most casinos, human detection of problem gambling focuses on just a few factors — mostly money spent and time played. Mindway's system takes into account 14 different risks. Those include money and time but also canceled bank withdrawals, shifts in the time of day the player is playing and erratic changes of wagers. Each factor is given a score from 1 to 100, and the A.I. then builds out a risk assessment of each player, improving itself with each hand of poker or spin of the roulette wheel. Players are scored from green (you're doing fine) to blood red (immediately step away from the game)....

The trickiest step, though, according to Brett Abarbanel, director of research at U.N.L.V.'s International Gaming Institute, is taking that data and explaining it to a player. "If my algorithm flags someone, and it thinks that they're a problem gambler, I'm not going to send them a note and say, 'Hey, great news, my algorithm has identified you as potentially a problem gambler. You should stop gambling right away!'" The response would be obvious, Dr. Abarbanel said, deploying a middle finger: "That's what will happen...."

Since starting in 2018, Mindway has contracted its services to seven Danish operators, two each in Germany and the Netherlands, one global operator and a U.S. sports-gambling operator, Mr. Kjærgaard said. The online gambling giants Flutter Entertainment and Entain have both partnered with Mindway as well, according to the companies' annual reports. Since this technology is so new and there's no regulatory body setting a standard, Mindway and similar companies are, for now, essentially on their own.
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Can AI Help Casinos Cut Down on Problem Gambling? More

Can AI Help Casinos Cut Down on Problem Gambling?

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  • ...can AI help casinos make less money?
    • This will definitely help casinos make more money. Just that when the AI will score blood red on somebody, that means the casino will give them a Bloody Mary or two, on the house, to build customer relations and ensure repeat business.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      Of course not. What it means is can it give the casinos enough cover so they seem not be the predators they are, while increasing revenue like McDonaldâ(TM)s putting apple instead of fries in their happy meal. Sure it makes meal rise from no to negligible nutrition, but it is really done so parent feel comfortable feeding their kids junk and the kids grow up to believe that McDonaldâ(TM)s is food

      • 28g apple (15 calories) in a McD's apple pouch. You'd get more apple by eating an actual small apple. (About 85g)

      • give the casinos enough cover so they seem not be the predators they are

        Kindly explain how casinos are a predator. Are they forcing anyone to gamble? Are they dragging people in off the street and putting them in front of a slot machine?

        Playing at a casino is a person's choice. Just like going to a movie theater or a bar. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Don't like gambling, don't go. Sound familiar?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fermion ( 181285 )
          Kindly explain to me how the corner entrepreneur is a predator. Are the forcing anyone to buy drugs. Are the giving the product away? No, recreational drugs are a personal choice.
          • You think that drug dealers don't give the product away to get people hooked? And so do casinos. I used to play a little blackjack and I would get vouchers for free slot machine play all the time. There's nothing wrong with free samples. I think that slot machines are stupid. But some people enjoy them. Every food-court Chinese restaurant gives away free samples. Drugs are different because they have strong addictive properties. Gambling is somewhere in between. Not as addictive as hard drugs but s
    • casinos don't want "problem" gamblers. Those guys go broke and either get help and stop gambling or get so down and out they run out of money permanently.

      No, what casinos want are functional addicts. People who can hold a job, earn money, and then spend the maximum amount gambling while working to earn enough cash for their next spree.

      • To me the two scenarios are both problem gamblers, if you are spending a significant amount loosing on gambling then it is causing you harm, therefore its problem gambling.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by narcc ( 412956 )

          One is a problem for the gambler, the other for the casino. Guess which one the casino cares about?

  • Casino's definition may be the opposite of yours

  • For the casino, the problem gamblers are those who win.

    • I suspect the gambler who ruins their lives is the gambler who can't be a lifelong customer (and also draws the ire of regulators who make doing business more difficult/expensive) Unless the customer is starting with a large amount of capital (eg upper middle class to rich) they probably make less money lifetime from a problem gambler than a recreational one who gambles regularly.

      • And note I'm taking about established larger casinos here integrated into tourist economies, not the shifter outfits, websites, etc (of which there are many) who probably don't care about long term or being targeted for the community friction.

    • For the casino, the problem gamblers are those who win.

      Yep, like for credit card companies the problem customers are the ones that pay their bill in full every month.

      • Why is paying your bill every month a problem for the credit card companies? They make plenty of money on the merchant fees. The people who pay cash or write checks are the problems for the credit card companies. Pay your bill every month for a bit. You will get promotions for no-interest balance transfers and all kinds of other things.

    • For the casino, the problem gamblers are those who win.

      Not really. Large payouts to regular gamblers always come back unless there is some scam or cheat involved.

      Casino profits are math driven and depend more on how many people are in the service area and the average income of the gamblers. Casino profits are stable and predictable over, say, a given month or year.

      • I used to play blackjack recreationally. I counted cards but wasn't looking to make a living so I limited my wins to not get caught. Just for fun. Part of the "cover" was to also play other games sometimes like craps. I once won like $1500 at a craps table on $50 buy-in due to sheer luck. Casino was happy to give me a hotel night and some buffets and a handshake. After all they knew I had money to spend!

        • You played smart and kept it to small potatoes. The dealers and pit bosses may have spotted you and just not bothered. In Canada, card counting isn't illegal but also isn't a problem anymore. Most casinos just apply counter measures such as adding decks or reshuffling more often. Very hard to be a successful card counter now.

          • I did get caught once and my players card at that casino is now "dirty" I was losing and got too aggressive. The most common counter measure is to move the cut card up. For a guy who is spreading $5-$50, yeah, most dealers and pit bosses don't care that much. I mean they see the problem gamblers losing their life savings and are probably secretly cheering for the counters. But once in a while there is a pit boss who wants to catch somebody to build their own career and that's when you get busted. In m

            • Interesting. Different dynamics in a place like Vegas where things are always busy; there are nights here when staff outnumber customers. I'm assuming you were playing in the USA as they don't bother card counters here.

              Nowadays they just press a button and the deck (typically 6 or 8 packs) gets cut and/or shuffled without interrupting play. Also a lot of tables are being replaced with computer generated games. No one advertises how the internal dealing is done. You can get a markedly different result

              • I've played in Atlantic City and Las Vegas. Many Las Vegas casinos use a system where there is a camera and a computer that also counts the cards. And, yes, if they have any concern about counters, they just trigger an early shuffle. There is an argument that this is sort-of cheating as it does change the odds of the game, but the Las Vegas gambling commission allows it.

                Pre-pandemic, segments of the market has rejected many of these technologies. But as gamblers get younger and online gambling become

                • Blackjack players are pretty miserable. Craps is a fun game. But outside of the human element, I can't see the appeal of gambling. But I'm apparently in the minority.

                  Couldn't agree more. Blackjack players are always really stressed. Roulette is weird because it really is a losers game. Craps players generally have a good time whether they win or not and there is always some kind of audience.

                  When you get to see everyone that has a chip left cash out, it is sobering. I am not much of a moralist but there is definitely something wrong with gambling as a government cash cow. I don't believe we (the public) get our money's worth out of the revenue stream. I think th

                  • In the good old days I would sometimes play roulette. You can just put a single red chip on red (or black), sit there all night, chat up the waitresses, and drink for less money than you would pay to go to a bar. Of course there was also a time when you could find $1 craps tables. I haven't been to a casino post-pandemic but there's no way you'd catch me at a $25 table. Craps has the advantage that most people play the pass line and win/lose together so it feels like you are kind of on a team with peopl

    • Not really, they are the advertising that draws in the ones who don't.

      Further, I've never met anyone who bragged about having big winnings that didn't, after a bit of questioning, reveal that they were net negative overall.

  • +10 years ago I worked on a POC project for a mobile gaming company that was an offshoot of a casino company. The underlying goal was to identify addictive personalities through games and then give them deals/ packages at casinos. I doubt they were the only ones doing it.

    • +10 years ago I worked on a POC project for a mobile gaming company that was an offshoot of a casino company. The underlying goal was to identify addictive personalities through games and then give them deals/ packages at casinos. I doubt they were the only ones doing it.

      If I were you I'd get in touch with an investigative reporter (they can protect sources if you want to stay anonymous).

      It sounds like a huge story if the company ever went through with it, the kind of story that people start writing new legislation to address.

  • Also helps. Gambling is a tax for stupid people.

  • ...that also applies to casinos:

    If you could beat the ponies they wouldn't be running them. --Pittsburgh Phil

    • Horse race betting is different from casino games. The odds depend on how the crowd is betting and not on some well defined probabilities.

      You don't have to beat the ponies; you just have to beat the crowd. It is more like the stock market than blackjack, craps, or roulette.

      • The point is, the house always wins. That's why consistent legal winners (not cheating winners) get banned, too.

        • ... consistent legal winners (not cheating winners) get banned, too.

          I have never seen or experienced that.

      • And in those cases, the tracks took like 15%. Slot machines usually take about a 10% cut. Craps has a 1.5% house advantage. Blackjack has a 0.5% house advantage (although the casinos win at higher rates due to poor play). At horse racing you have to beat the crowd by a lot. Plus you have to watch horse racing which might not be worth the amount you win. You used to at least get free drinks at casinos.

        • Totally true.

          It is possible to profit at the track but it takes a lot of work both in research and especially in money management. Any significant bets will alter the odds and reduce potential profits. Also, typically there are less than a third of the day's races that are worthwhile betting on.

          It helps to like the sport and not have a life.

  • Two things (Score:3)

    by dogsbreath ( 730413 ) on Sunday March 13, 2022 @11:47AM (#62353775)

    First, what do you mean by problem gamblers? Anyone who bets and believes they will win has a problem IMO, so that is about 90% of casino patrons from what I have seen.

    Second, privacy. To make this work the AI needs more than just per person real time gaming activity: it needs the patron to be identified, tracked, and access to their personal financial information.

    In Alberta, all gaming table banking is handled by volunteers from non-profit organizations. The provincial government gives the non-profit a cut of the monthly winnings in exchange for the labour. This has two benefits besides sending cash support to public service groups: it is impossible to stuff the vault with unattributed cash (laundering input), and it gives a segment of the public a direct view into what gambling looks like at a personal level when people cash out.

    I've worked maybe a hundred nights as a volunteer cashier and from what I have seen there are no winners. Every big payout comes right back, as the math predicts. Some cash comes from people out on a one off losing a couple hundred on a night out. Odd choice for entertainment I think but not really a big problem. Most of it comes from regulars who also lose regularly. A few look like they can afford it but by far most look pretty stressed.

    Oh, then there are the guys who show up at 1 AM with $40,000 in 20s, lose $1000 at the table and then want to cash out in 100s. I wonder what they do for a living. Different kind of problem gambling.

    Hey, I gamble too; I buy a lottery ticket a couple times a month even though I know it is money down the drain. Go figure.

    • I am also confused at the term "problem gambler". I thought maybe it means someone who loses all their money to the casino and doesn't just walk away. Install covert metal detectors at the doorways, have secret security roaming your game floor, have the parking area far from the casino building and put up giant concrete planters around the building to prevent anyone from going mad max with their car. Those are the things I think you'd do for "problem gamblers".

    • Casinos are often unwitting participants in money laundering. But they also try to avoid that. They do track your buy-ins and cash-outs to the extent that they can. You might not realize it if you aren't looking. A good blackjack player will want to disguise their winnings and will pocket some chips every time they go to the bathroom so that they are constantly buying in and it looks like they are losing. The pit bosses know how much money should be at the tables and will start looking around if the ch

      • We would ID any significant or suspicious customers and the floor managers watch activity closely. It is illegal for someone else to cash in your chips and it is fairly easy to spot the launderers. ie The guy buying in with 20G in 20s. We spot them and give them the same bills when they cash out.

        For major amounts of cash to be successfully cycled, the casino has to be in on it.

        • Thank you for this but are you sure you guys just aren't catching the worst launderers? Again I don't know since I've never worked for the casino. And I've also never bought 20G of chips at one time! When the amounts are in the thousands (as opposed to tens of thousands), it seems that smaller players might get away with more. I've walked up to tables with chips I bought the previous day. Although I mentioned slowly removing chips in order to disguise winnings, I've also played (without spreading) and

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by iamacat ( 583406 )

      Hey, you have some personal experience on casino side of things, but isn't there an upside if house edge is moderate and game includes sizable jackpots? Say you come in once a week and lose a couple of hundred dollars. Then once in a while you get a checkpot of a couple of thousand and treat yourself to something nice. Isn't it a type of saving scheme that on one hand has costs but on the other hand motivates you more than a bank or a savings jar because you keep telling yourself that this week can be the o

      • Sure. Exactly. That's why the house doesn't care about a big winner. Well, they watch the stats to spot cheating or scams but almost all of a big win ends up back in the bank within a month. Actually, my limited observation is that it all comes back often in the same evening. It is all math and the government and the casino operators watch the numbers closely.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      First, what do you mean by problem gamblers? Anyone who bets and believes they will win has a problem IMO, so that is about 90% of casino patrons from what I have seen.

      Problem gambling, like problem drinking, is when it comes to compromise/damage other areas of your life like personal, family, work. If you buy a lottery ticket twice a month and the cost of this is a rounding error to your overall finances, then you're not a problem gambler.

  • I'll take that bet

  • Obviously, Casinos want to get rid of "problem gamblers" only after they have lost most or all of their money. The procedures for that are well established. Artificial Ignorance is perfect for pretending to do more, but not doing more in fact. Probably not the first case were AI is uses as a fake "solution" with those doing it knowing perfectly well that it will not do anything.

  • The casinos definition of problem gambling is when the house is losing.

  • ...drug dealers turn to ai to help people dealing with drug addiction.

  • ... would they *EVER* do that?!?

    "Problem gamblers" are their damn business model

  • Lest ask a different question: Can AI help drug dealers cut down on drug abuse?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by iamacat ( 583406 )

      Yes? Not every drug user ends up as a socially or physiologically impaired addict. These days various drugs are being legalized and new credible medical uses discovered. Obviously opioids have long standing medical uses. There will be dealers that want to make money without ruining customers, or who hope self regulation will keep their business legal. In the same way as casino owners can hope to keep gambling legal in more places and for an average person to not fear coming to a casino and spinning out of c

  • I thought this said "Al"... took me a while to figure out it was about "AI"

  • Disappointing. The story had potential.

  • Gambling companies only care about two types of problem gamblers:

    * Clear Cut problems - People who clearly meet "reasonable and obvious" red flags, who are spending ten times their apparent earnings a week and loss chasing.
    * Flameouts - People who will burn out quickly and turn off from gambling

    AI and anti-problem gambling work is generally directed towards creating a 'sustainable' customer, one who loses a managed gradient through their entire lifetime with an operator, never flaming out until the
  • I used to have a boss who was a problem gambler. I can guarantee that if he was told to stop he'd be straight down to the next casino, or bookies, or failing that a gambling machine in a pub. The only way he stopped was to cut off his source, which he could only do because he had the support of his wife who went to the bank with him, arranged to have all his credit removed, his wages paid into her account and then gave him a daily allowance for food and petrol. Even then he ran out of petrol once because he

  • It doesn't take AI to figure out that you're going to lose your shirt in Vegas. But the counter argument is that people, who have "real" intelligence, still keep throwing their money away in hopes that they will be the one lucky person who "wins big."

  • Like a drug dealer, making sure no one buys too much meth?
  • Problem gamblers are those that win big against the house. Then the house pulls out a contract on the bottom of the table that takes that contingency into account!

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