Is Microsoft Office Adware? 180
An anonymous reader writes "Office may fall under Microsoft's own definition of adware. It links to third-party commercial add-ons, includes up-selling promos, requires cookies for certain functions, and collects technical information. While this is like a normal day on the web, should the commercial office suite be held to a different standard and possibly be considered adware? The article also notes that clicking advertising links in Office will bring up Internet Explorer, regardless of whether or not it is the default browser. We discussed Microsoft's decision to turn Works into adware a few months ago.
No but this post is (Score:5, Funny)
OOo (Score:5, Funny)
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in order to feel fully dominant, they must own it against our will. It's as though they think that if we wanted to use their products because they were good for us and worked in our best interest, it would not be true show of their power, for we'd be rational in wanting such products. Only if they can force their software down our throats whether we want it or not, do they have full assurance that their power is real.
Money is about showing your power [showyourpower.net]. No surprise there :-)
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Re:OOo (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:OOo (Score:4, Interesting)
Then their were the wizards to facilitate your Internet connection that would only work with ISP who had paid an advertising fee to M$.
So really it is nothing new, same old M$ just screwing over the customer at every opportunity ;).
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Re:OOo (Score:4, Insightful)
Trusted Computing support in Vista, which brings nothing to the public, but causes their computer to cease to be under their control, allowing such things as:
Remote censorship after the fact
Unbreakable vendor lock-in
Draconian digital rights management
Inability to use custom software on your own hardware
Who demanded this? The US Department of Defense and the large media corporations.
Does it serve the public or the end user? No.
Aside from the dangers of what it does when it works right, does it inconvenience the user in unrelated ways? Yes, it consumes resources with no return and causes general bugginess in such a large variety of software that Vista is being refused by the general public despite their ignorance of these larger issues, simply because of the side effects.
Does it tie into a larger agenda to control the worlds information, tax every creative work, rewrite history, and create a system of control that would give would be despots wet dreams? You're fucking right it does.
If you were to take a random sample of a hundred people out of your typical mall and explain the technology and what it does, do you think anyone would ask for it? Anyone at all?
Yet they spent billions of dollars over many years conspiring to bring this technology to our homes. Why do you suppose they did that?
Because they were motivated by interests who wish to control the population at large without regard for what is legal.
They think of their customer base as cows, to be owned, controlled and sold to private interests.
That example about selling ad space in IE is so benign compared to what's going on these days that it actually makes a person wistfully think of how nice Microsoft used to be, relatively speaking.
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The fact that it upsets MS fanbois is a bonus.
Re: What MS wants to own (Score:5, Funny)
And you had better have a passport, because on entrance you and your computer become subjects of El Presidente Señor Lanzero de Sillónes Ballmero.
Re: What MS wants to own (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: What MS wants to own (Score:5, Insightful)
they hate their licensees
There, fixed it for ya. The term "customer" leaves me with the impression that you've actually bought something and you can do want you want with it. I don't think this is how M$ sees it. Bill lets you use his s/w for a while if you behave and follow the rules.
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Actually, thinking about it, it's not even how you describe it. You give control of your computer to Microsoft, they allow you to use the computer with Windows. While their software is on it, while you might have physical possession of the computer, it is theirs to do with as they see fit, and any functionality and value you get out of it is solely at their discretion.
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You mean Live ID, right?
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I'm not a Microsoft fan, never have been, but this is a prime example of what happens when you put a sales person in charge of your company. Balmer either lacks the vision of what the customer wants or is choosing to ignore it. He seems to be pimping out the company every chance he gets and I think the customers are finally starting to get turned off by what he's bringing to the table.
Bill Gates is an uber-dork, but at least he brought some passion and vision to the company and seemed to think about the cu
Ballmer is like an emotionally disturbed child (Score:2)
Almost all CEOs are primarily salesmen. Ballmer is more of a loud-mouth bully, he demands constant attention, he always has something to prove, he lives to hurt those who he sees as being weaker than him.
Don't think so (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Don't think so (Score:5, Informative)
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but you can bet there is one). You throw in the fact that calls home with usage/tracking data, and you know what?
We're technically talking about something very similar to adware.
Of course, most joe-sixpack people don't care. This suggests that there's some convergence of advertising and
application functionality in our future (see also: Google Apps)
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I remember buying MathType in 1997 or so because I found it in Word. I was grateful as I wouldn't have known about MathType otherwise (then).
I guess my point is that it was helpful (for both me and the third party) since it led me to find a program I used a lot from a small 3rd party.
I hated having to find programs ($20 or $30 for something I needed to use once so I didn't do it) though that did what Office should have been able to
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I remember buying MathType in 1997 or so because I found it in Word. I was grateful as I wouldn't have known about MathType otherwise (then).
I guess my point is that it was helpful (for both me and the third party) since it led me to find a program I used a lot from a small 3rd party.
It is no less adware just because the ads may be useful.
I hated having to find programs ($20 or $30 for something I needed to use once so I didn't do it) though that did what Office should have been able to do (I really can't remember what now but I remember being really angry because they were simple things).
And these ads, if they are indeed useful and not annoying (and remember, all ads in any kind of adware are useful to somebody; if nobody ever clicked them, they wouldn't exist in the first place or would die out soon), only make it easier to find that kind of functionality elsewhere, for if it were built in into Office, there would be no need for the ads.
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I think your point may have been valid then - when many people weren't online... but today, a quick search of Google solves all that - and is at the user's option - not MS's or any other company. And I'd think that anyone using any piece of mainstream software also realizes there are alternatives, so nowadays, it's also not like a person wouldn't think to look for something else if they dont like what they are using. In addition, with numerous plug-in based programs today, it also is likely many more people
Re:Don't think so (Score:4, Informative)
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By default, if you try to insert some math, you'll be using the new Office Math Editor, which did not exist in previous versions of Office, and probably doesn't nag for ads. The Equation Editor is the "legacy" way of inserting formulas.
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Brett
Re:Don't think so (Score:4, Informative)
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Why didn't you tell the 'tards at Microsoft that using Word to render the HTML in Outlook was one of the stupidest things that they have ever done?
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Second, what would you prefer them to use, IE? Apparently even Microsoft understands that you do not want to use IE to render HTML in your programs.
Of course, this begs to question why Outlook just does not have its own built in HTML renderer. My guess is to maintain visual rendering consistancy between your Office products. If an update is made to Word, you do not have to update Outlook as we
Of *course* not! (Score:4, Funny)
Of course not - If so, Windows Defender would block it. Which it doesn't. So no problem, right?
Sounds OK to me (Score:5, Interesting)
I would have been glad to get a free shrink wrap Works a few years ago. My mom was sending me documents in Works Word Processor format and I had to go buy Works to read them. Trust me, teaching "Save As . . . scroll down to Word... " wasn't practical with her at the time. It was a lot less painful to just go buy Works.
Finally, I hate to tell you, but the Works 7 Word Processor isn't actually that bad. It looks exactly like Word did a few years ago, and has all the features most people use.
Re:Sounds OK to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, and there are a lot of people that wish Word still looked like it did a few years ago.
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Let the market decide (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps the manufacture should just give a genuine itemized invoice rather than bundling and let the market decide.
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Windows? (Score:4, Funny)
On a side note, when I click on an email address in my Windows Mail, it opens Office Outlook. No, it is not set as my default mailer
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http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-windows-tax-is-50-according-to-dell-linux-pc-pricing.html [arstechnica.com]
So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.
But that $50 leaves a gap at the bottom of the market that might be colonised by Linux. Sub $200 PCs will end up paying too high a percentage for this. Microsoft could avoid this and rake in
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This is how Microsoft was BORN. I suggest you revise the company's history a little.
Error in title? (Score:1)
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if you can not comprehend the summary, you have no use for this type of software.
Maybe this will be of use http://www.marks-english-school.com/games.html [marks-english-school.com]
Google ads suggestions (Score:1)
I read it as... (Score:5, Funny)
I guess we need to consider... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I guess we need to consider... (Score:5, Insightful)
So any software which contains links to its creator's webpage (or its own, if one has been created) is adware?
You're right: based on the summary and Microsoft's description Leopard and office would fall under the category, but then again, so would nearly every piece of software I use to some degree. Who voted for this article to be featured, anyway? Just another excuse for pointless debate...
Welcome to Slashdot! (Score:2)
You must be new. That's what we do around here...pointless debate.
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If you really don't want adware, just unplug that RJ45 ethernet cable on the back.
Instant...no adware!
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Sliverlight Prompts (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe Microsoft should come up with a new logo program: "Microsoft adware Aware"
Search the internet (Score:3)
It drives me nuts because my boss *always* uses that instead of clicking the FF icon which is hindering my attempts to improve the workflow.
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1. Get a copy of the ubiquitous "Hello World" program, in any language for which you have a compiler.
2. Compile it.
3. Rename the resulting file "iexplore.exe".
4. Copy it to the directory where the real iexplore.exe resides, thus nullifying any calls to Internut Exploder from anywhere.
5. Copy the file to your boss's computer, thereby forcing him to use Firefox.
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Don't laugh, I saw this kind of thing happen.
--jeffk++
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Writing intranet apps for two browsers is a major pain.
Maybe Desparationware (Score:3)
Warren Buffett saw it back in the early 90s when he said he wouldn't invest in Microsoft, because he didn't see a profitable business model (long term...Buffett's method).
Desperation is driving MS to use everything they can to continue the profit line, including using acquisitions to get what they couldn't create.
I don't have anything bad to say about MS, and use some of their products, but given their CEO's reputation and his lack of experience in any other large company, & changing FOSS world, I have this gut feel that says MS is going to have a REAL HARD time expanding its yearly sales and profits.
The Year of Office 2007 (Score:4, Informative)
Desperation is driving MS to use everything they can to continue the profit line
I have this gut feel that says MS is going to have a REAL HARD time expanding its yearly sales and profits.
67 cents of every new retail dollar spent on PC software goes to MS Office.
Through end of November, U.S. retail PC software sales are up 10.3 percent year over year as measured in dollar volume, according to NPD. By comparison, Office sales are up 50.7 percent, by the same measure and in the same time frame. Office sales are so big, they make calculating broader PC software retail sales difficult. The "magnitude of Office sales relative to the rest of the PC software market is phenomenal. It's the massively huge tail wagging the dog." Retail Black Friday sales of Mac Office were up 215.8 percent year over year. While Mac Office generated blowout sales on Black Friday, Office 2007 sales growth was exceptionally good, too. Year-over-year U.S. retail Black Friday sales of Office were up 65.8 percent, as measured in dollars. The Year of Office 2007 [microsoft-watch.com]
Microsoft's profits are up 79%:
For the quarter that ended Dec. 31, profit rose to $4.71 billion, or 50 cents per share, from $2.63 billion, or 26 cents per share the previous year. Analysts polled by Thomson Financial had forecast a profit of 46 cents per share. Revenue rose 31 percent to $16.37 billion from $12.5 billion in the year-ago quarter, ahead of the analysts' prediction of $15.95 billion in sales.
{and, in what must be the understatement of the year]
"It looks like a very nice report," said Sarah Friar, an analyst for Goldman Sachs. Microsoft Corp. earnings leap 79 percent [statesman.com]
I was sorely tempted to give my response a flamebait title like "The Geek Turns Delusional."
I won't disguise my opinion here that the Geek's increasingly frantic retreat from reality has been the Slashdot story since the posting of Microsoft's second quarter results.
The CDW poll points to a softening of enterprise IT negative attitudes toward Vista. Familiarity, it seems, has bred content: IT departments are happier with Vista's features, particularly in the area of security, and less concerned about the hardware costs of Vista than they were a year ago. Another year will bring further declines in the relative cost of PC hardware -- and make a lot of corporate desktop hardware look even more antique. Only a major economic downturn would be likely to derail current estimates of another strong year for PC sales, so even if Vista remains tied to hardware sales it would do well, and corporate upgrades could finally kick in as old hardware is upgraded. This has been a year when Vista has had its rough edges knocked off, and the marketplace has adjusted its expectations. By Vista's next birthday it should be more differentiated and acceptable for both its consumer and business marketplaces. Assessing Windows Vista On Its First Anniversary [informationweek.com]
Give me a break. (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course if this were a Microsoft Office advocacy site talking shit about OpenOffice we would have the FUD-Nazis screaming at the top of their lungs.
But honestly, I can't make myself care about the hypocrisy anymore; I am tired and bored of it even more than I am tired and bored of the whole Roger Clemens thing.
Back on-topic for a second, "adware" is not really a useful term as it encompasses a number of different things, some of which are not malicious and others which are. As long as Microsoft discloses what the software is doing then there really isn't any malicious intent.
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Talking shit as in criticizing, exaggerating, or flat out lying?
Of course if this were a Microsoft Office advocacy site talking shit about OpenOffice we would have the FUD-Nazis screaming at the top of their lungs.
Wouldn't how reasonable that is again depend on the truth of what was said?
As long as Microsoft discloses what the software is doing then there really isn't any malicious intent.
Okay what if in the EULA they said: "Microsoft Office, i
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I'll try to make this simple for you. WHATEVER the product, when I've bought and paid for it, it becomes my property. Mine. Period. I don't want it trying to sell me something or phone home with my personal information or chat with its buddies. I expect it to do as it's told. If Microsoft or anybody else wants to push their own agenda at me, they can try renting or leasing their product.
Get it?
trolls gone wild (Score:4, Insightful)
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I wonder if Soulskill is Zonk's sock-puppet.
It's been a trend for years. Worse then even MS.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I am shocked and apalled! (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:I am shocked and apalled! (Score:4, Insightful)
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A bit biased, perhaps? (Score:5, Informative)
The article states, "it is unusual to require cookies or to use them in a desktop application", yet Office Online is the only part of Office that requires cookies. This doesn't seem that strange to me: no local features require them.
I wasn't able to find any ads in Office 2007, but because I'm running the latest version, none will probably show up until the next version of Office is released. Showing a couple of ad links at the bottom of the help text, and only after the user goes into help, stretches the definition of Adware a bit.
Java does it... (Score:2)
All I know is... (Score:2)
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Totally right, especiall for Office 2007 (Score:2)
Users can't find things that the need to do, but they do discover all of these new and wonderous features.
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Comedy Gold (Score:2)
What if he added google to that dropdown (it may be there by default, was on mine, but perhaps it picked up my vista search preferences?) and searched for "MLA". Would GOOGLE *GASP* have given him
It may not be adware, but it's still tacky (Score:2)
In Microsoft Office Professional 2003's help, a search for "APA" (a popular documentation style) brings up two links labeled Microsoft Office Marketplace.
The ads don't appear in the app itself, but these days the online support is tightly coupled with the application. It's like ads in textbooks. If MS is that desperate for revenue they have to embed ads in their online help, then they're in worse shape than I thought. It's just tacky and slightly pathetic.
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Not designed to their own standards (Score:2)
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EMACS forever
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Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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Your bias opinion that attempts to reinforce the view that OO.org is shit on the other hand might be classed as FUD. If you had said, "Is OO.org shitty?" I might have taken a different point of view when writing this comment.
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Asking questions isn't FUD.
It can be. As the saying goes, 40% of questions are statements in disguise.
Its worth pointing out that almost any adware removal company's definition of adware could have been used, as could an enormous variety of commercial software, and still made the same point (that plenty of legitimate software does crap we don't want it to do). And while I certainly can certainly see the irony in using MS for both parties in this topic, the GP is abolutely right that the topic implies something about MS in a manne
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You're right, questions can be FUD but not in the context of the originally mentioned title of the article.
Asking the question "Is Microsoft Office Adware?" is not the
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Can you take the risk?
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But is the article really flawed? Tell us, did you check what the info published was about, "clicking advertising links in Office will bring up Internet Explorer"?
This
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