MS Pressuring NW Schools: Pay Up, Or Face Audit 870
razvedchik writes: "As reported in this article in the Portland, OR newspaper, The Oregonian, Microsoft is pressuring 24 school districts in the northwest to agree to their Microsoft School Agreement licensing scheme or undergo an audit in 60 days. Multnomah ESD, which covers the greater Portland area and has around 25,000 computers, has to either decide to accept the license at about $500,000 or undergo the audit which it does not have time to prepare for. Of significant interest is the fact that a significant majority of these schools are experimenting with using Linux. Multnomah ESD has its own thin-client Linux distro called K12LTSP."
I still don't under stand (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:3, Insightful)
Read the license (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Read the license (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, but does Microsoft have any proof that you've accepted any EULA terms?
If no, then make them get a search warrant to prove the existence of any microsoft products, and then they can enforce the "right to audit" provision of the EULA. And make them list specifically which machines they're going to check. And, once they've finally gotten their filthy little hands inside, refuse access to any machines that you know don't contain MS software.
In short, deny even having any MS software in the first place. If you don't have any software, they've got no right to come in.
Of course, school systems have even less cash than ubergeeks, so there's no chance in the world that any of these systems will force the issue, especially not in court. *sigh*
Maybe they could get Scott McNealy to pay their legal fees, to force the issue in front of a judge....
Re:Read the license (Score:3, Insightful)
If you registered even one copy of their software within the organization/school system, then MS would have the notion that you probably have more than one application of theirs... then they would have cause to audit you. Yes, it is a damn shame that MS (or any other company), but people still don't read/understand what they are agreeing to when the 'agree' to the EULA of any software. There was a story posted to /. not too long ago about this very topic...
Re:Read the license (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Excellent counterpoint. I like it! (Score:5, Interesting)
You'll see your full (registered) name, product ID, unique ID's, everthing about your machine and you being accessed by the prompt that says "No personal information is being sent to Microsoft".
Seriously. Try it.
Re:Excellent counterpoint. I like it! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:2)
You are the network administrator and you don't take responsibility for your computers? That's not how I run my network. The computers are the property of the company and all the data on them belongs to the company. The users have access to the computer as a tool, not a personal toy. I think you need to check where you stand, and if there are company policies that need to be installed so be it. You should have full control over those computers.
~LoudMusic
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:2)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:2)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:5, Funny)
And if you dare refuse, then you MUST be a criminal because you have something to hide ...
end sarcasm
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:3, Insightful)
Where did you even come up with that ridiculous idea? To use the software legally, all I have to do is pay for it. EULAs are a joke. You cannot retroactively apply any arbitrary terms on something someone has already bought.
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:3, Insightful)
The basis is the license agreement. The outside of the CD case or envelope containing the key to the program clearly states that you have to agree to the contract terms set forth by the manufacturer of the product in order to use it.
This is a valid contract that you agree to as soon as the conditions are met. No matter how much I dislike the terms in the license agreement, I accept them by doing this. Individuals and cooperations have very wide opportunities to make contracts and agreements between themselves. This is how Microsoft can get away with the audits and other procedures that are elsewhere infringments.
Microsoft have, from a juridical viewpoint, extremely draconian contract terms. I have read the license agreement, and believe that they are not lawful here (In Norway). We have a very strong consumer protection law and the Microsoft agreement violates this on several different occasions.
Disclaimer: IAALS (I am a law student)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:3, Interesting)
Uh, you didn't get the point here. You agree to the terms by opening the seal and using the software. If you disagree to the terms, you must step down and not open and use the contract. This is your last point of the post. The schools, however, have not only agreed to the contract in these term, they have also agreed to other contracts as Microsoft forces every big purchaser to do.
Here is the license for reading this post. As soon as ANYONE reads this post, then you (nordicfrost) must send me $25.00.
I disagree, furthermore it is an non-valid contract since the terms are retro-active. You can't make the terms after the terms are met, unless this is agreed upon at an earlier time.
you still get to use the software under the fair use provisions of your copyright law
I don't know how the americans practise law, but there the fair use is limited to art (text, pictures, some video), not computer programs. They fall in under another category in the copyright act.
If you agree to the EULA, they can do whatever... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I still don't under stand (Score:3, Funny)
Wow. $cientology conducts audits...
Let's see... both have high powered lawyers to stifle any criticism; both have a tiered system that requires huge sums of cash to move up; both treat their followers cruelly while assuring them "it's in their best interest"; both make it difficult and even dangerous to "leave"...
Welcome to the Church of Micro$oft.
Understand Licences... (Score:5, Insightful)
1 CD
50 Certificates
You can now install the software on 50 machines. Sure.
Now part of the agreement is that you have to maintain a database that includes a list of all the machines you have the software on and account for each one under license. So if you installed Office on 51 machines, you are out of license and need to buy more. At any time, MicroSoft can ask for an audit, and you have to produce the licenses and the list of computers. Pretty simple but....
Since I've worked for education I can tell you one simple fact:
It's understaffed and has a high turnover rate.
So when Microsoft says "Where are the licenses for these NT machines.", the poor tech has no idea, because he didn't order them and the guy who did moved to San Francisco to work for a start-up. So microsoft then offers to look for you... and these guys comb through every little room to find stacks of machines you haven't plugged in for two years, and they boot them up. And the new lab you just installed with that same CD earlier... well, you can't find the certificates, but you're sure they were all covered.
Needless to say things get ugly quick.
So to answer you question, where do they get the right? You give it to them when you agree to the license.
Re:Understand Licences... (Score:3, Interesting)
The school says that a lot of the machines were donated. Some of them didn't come with any paperwork. "We're bubblegum and baling wire in terms of what we're putting on the desktops. For us to try to manage every donated desktop that comes in from a business or an individual is ridiculous."
I can't imagine why MS wants to get themselves all this bad publicity. Picking on schools, and thus peoples children, will never endear them to the parents.
Yes, of course I read the article. You must think I'm advocating what MS is doing. I don't.
The basic truth is that the school system has entered an agreement with MS at some point, or MS wouldn't have the right to audit. If you get a donated machine, then you either need the license that came with it, buy a new one, or install one that doesn't require that license. I'd vote for the later, I've never heard of a Red Hat audit team.
Re:Alternative #3 @# +1 ; Creative @# (Score:3, Insightful)
Schools, at least in the state of Colorado, are almost entirely Mac-based. If lucky they might have a PC in the main office; but even that isn't all that common.
I'd be surprised if these school districts really had so many PCs as to make the whole thing worthwhile. It might just be easier to "donate" the PCs to some organization, or sell them like in a "bake sale." Then tell Microsoft to take a flying leap and smear the hell out of them in the news saying, "Thanks to Microsoft we had to get rid of 563 functional PCs."
Or simply pay someone to format the dang machines and install Linux on them. Even if they don't use them (at least right away) it lets them keep the PCs, avoid the audit, avoid the $500k license, and figure out what to do with the PCs later when they have time.
It seems like just about any of these solutions would be cheaper than paying $500k per year.
Microsoft is smoking something if they're trying to "milk" school districts. Of all the organizations in the country they can try to milk, school districts are among those that have the least discretionary funds. They always have shortages just trying to handle the students. This could very easily cause Microsoft some bad PR (already has) and at the same time push the districts away from MS.
Good thinking, MS. Keep up the good work. Given enough time I'm convinced MS will put itself out of business.
This would be an excellent time. (Score:5, Insightful)
You would think with such a large focus on MS right now they'd not pull this kind of crap especially in a tight economy and a region full of protestors. Should be interesting to see how this develops.
Re:This would be an excellent time. (Score:3)
It's probably down to the stock market reaction to Microsoft that they've all been told to pull their socks up and increase revenue. This in turn has resulted in things they'd never think twice about actually happening.
Links, Links, and more Links (Score:5, Informative)
K12LTSP Project [k12ltsp.org] with some associated links and contact information.
Portland LUG, who have been talking about this on their listserv. [pdxlinux.org]
Re:This would be an excellent time. (Score:5, Interesting)
Think about it: you're faced with a huge audit, that you know you're going to fail. Do you a) pay the huge license & know you'll have to pay it again next year? or b) call in the Linux-install swat team to put Linux on every machine that you can't *prove* is legally a Windows machine, thus avoiding the whole issue for ever?
If the support & panic install costs are low enough (and the guys who do it leet enough), you may very well be able to get a *lot* of people (like the ones in the article) calling for this kind of short-notice Linux migration.
Re:This would be an excellent time. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This would be an excellent time. (Score:4, Funny)
Cue theme: Who ya gonna call?? Billll-BUSTERS, Billll-BUSTERS!
What I'd like to see... (Score:3)
It would be great if someone could create a website listing all the known audits that Microsoft has conducted in recent times and the financial outcomes of these audits. It could turn into a powerful tool to promote the use of an OS that doesn't carry such huge expenses in terms of both initial cost, as well as the administrative costs of maintaining software and licensing information about every computer in the organization. Has this, or something similar, been done already?
Capitolism at Work (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a pretty dumb move imo of course as it will do nothing but drive the schools to look to cheaper (free) OSes, but it's well within Microsoft's right to do dumb things.
Re:Capitolism at Work (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about fear and control, nothing else. It's funny, and a little scary to watch them scrambling like this: it can only help the competition.
Re:Capitolism at Work (Score:2)
MS is coming in and saying "Give us a half mil, or we'll make your lives hell."
S
Re:Capitolism at Work (Score:2)
Re:Capitolism at Work (Score:2)
to file a motion as close to the close of business as possible, giving the
least amount of time permissible under law. Like 3 days to comply, filing it
at 4:50pm on a Friday and they have to have it by Monday. Only in this case,
MS is hoping that they will just give up the money, if they really wanted to
make sure they were in compliance, they would give them more time.
SealBeater
Re:Capitolism at Work (Score:2, Interesting)
Total horseshit. And it puts schools in a position of refusing donations and ripping out existing boxen to comply with this unreasonable standard.
Volunteer (Score:3, Insightful)
Help the schools out with a little bit of your time and expertise.
Re:Volunteer (Score:5, Interesting)
Airfare to and from
Place to sleep
Food
In exchange for this, I will help convert and train users, teachers, and students linux. Send inquiries to toqernospam@pacbellnospam.netnospam (remove nospam)
Opportunity (Score:2, Interesting)
Not the way apple did it (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullying the local school children mob style probably won't win them the following they were after in the first place. I wonder if the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation will start to pick on all the Public Libraries they have pushed Windows on.
Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven guilty (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven gui (Score:5, Funny)
It has slowly mutated:
1) Innocent until proven guilty
2) Guilty until proven innocent
3) Guilty, period.
4) Guilty, and suggesting there may be such a thing as "innocence" is a crime too.
5) CBDTPA
Re:Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven gui (Score:2)
Re:Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven gui (Score:2)
Re:Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven gui (Score:2)
Re:Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven gui (Score:5, Informative)
It never applied to civil matters.
"Preponderance of Evidence" is the doctrine at
work in a civil case.
All you have to do to win a civil case is to persuade
a judge and/or jury that the facts are more probably
one way than the other.
Burden of proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, and
"presumption of Innocence" only apply to criminal
cases.
It's going on at ALL levels of goverment. (Score:5, Insightful)
A friend of mine works for an arm of the VA (Veterans Affairs) According to this friend, the VA is being systematically searched by M$ for license compliance, so far with grim results. Supposidly the VA is about 20million out of compliance with M$ products. It doesn't just stop at M$ stuff though.
While M$ is doing their "sweeps" they will make it their business to report any competitors product being out of license as well. This includes everything from an over the limit shareware version of winzip, to "borrowed" installed copies of quicken, and the like.
It's pretty clear what is going on. The states that have fined M$ are owed money, but all M$ has to do is prove they are out of license compliance.
M$ We pay up when you pay us for our software
It's a pretty smart tactic on M$'s part when you think about it. It's not like M$ hasn't known for years everyone pirates their software to hell. It's just kinda funny how they use it as a trump card to save their ass.
Re:It's going on at ALL levels of goverment. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's going on at ALL levels of goverment. (Score:3)
Seems unlikely, since every PC the VA bought undoubtedly came preinstalled with a licensed Windows OS, and probably Office as well. Which is more likely: that the VA knowingly mass installed thousands of illegal copies of MS products, or that it misplaced the licenses?
Re:It's going on at ALL levels of goverment. (Score:3, Insightful)
Which means that the next line should be:
Of course, that would require some more time in court. But it's not good for long-term viability to base your business on illegal profits from the government, because they'll want the money back eventually.
interesting timing (Score:2, Insightful)
I sure wouldn't want disruptions then. I wonder why they didn't time it so that the audit had to happen mid-summer or some other non-peak time instead.
I wonder why... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously tho, what keeps the school from telling them to bugger off? Could Microsoft get a court order to allow their audit teams to search (especially if the school sent a statement to the effect of "we won't be using your software anymore, so don't bother with the audit")?
Re:I wonder why... (Score:2)
IANAL ... but probably not. The reason cops DO get court orders, is because of the investigation of the cops, it is believed that there is enough evidence to convict the person in question.
In Microsoft's case, they are on a fishing expedition, and as such, probably would be denied a court order, unless they could prove that the person they want to audit is committing a crime.
Of course, they could just bill the school system, and then offer to reduce the bill by the actual number of machines legally licensed. The problem with this, is that the school system gives up several rights that are (should) be protected by the Constitution.
Re:I wonder why... (Score:2)
Well the school doesn't have much of a choice. Let's say they have MS Word, Windows, etc. courses, do you think that they have the time to change all those courses and find qualified OpenOffice, Linux, etc. teachers before next semester?
Does anyone see it like I see it? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have an auditing question... (Score:2)
Note: I'm not talking specifcially about schools, but rather a business that presumably has made no contractual deals with them.
Ever heard of an EULA? (Score:2)
So, if Microsoft can prove that you EVER bought ANY Microsoft software, they can enter your premises and audit you.
Now, if you've NEVER bought anything legally from them, that's a different story... interesting...
MadCow.
Re:I have an auditing question... (Score:2)
But, what about a business that says "we used to have Windows, Office, and SQLServer, but now we use Solaris, Linux, StarOffice, and Sybase. Get bent."
Would they sue? What would their burden of proof be to get their audit approved? How far could I take this argument: "I will not expose any of my computers or the sensitive data on them (like school records) to ANY outside party."
Time for someone to take some action (Score:2)
I'm sure someone reading this in MW, or a local LUG, has a spare few hours and a hundred dollars or so write a couple of hundred Linux CD-ROMs and post them with a clear and reasonable letter to the govenors of these schools, pointing out the benefits of OSS software.
With a little effort you'll have done a lot of good for the schools of MW and shown Microsoft for the callous bastards that they are.
I live in Portland (Score:5, Insightful)
So what the combo of less property tax and more gambling has done is shift the tax burden for schools from business to individuals, and disproportionately to poorer individuals, who tend to gamble more (this is not a value judgement, just a fact).
Also, Portland currently has the highest unemployment in the nation - about 9.5% last I checked. Furthermore, our Superintendent or Schools
I hope that helps put this quote from the article in context: The trouble is, if 60 days isn't enough time to audit 25,000 machines it sure as hell isn't enough time to convert them to Linux. It boggles my mind that Microsoft is going so far out of its way to piss people off. [Insert ob. Princess Cinnamon-Bun quote here]
Re:I live in Portland (Score:5, Funny)
"Hi Kids, today we are going to learn about Linux. We will do this by installing Linux on the computers you are using right now. Thanks to the friendly guys at (RedHat|Mandrake|SUSE|Debian|etc) we each have a CD on our desks. Please put it into the computer and power-on."
"Now we can learn about hard drive partitioning. See that picture which has a big red bar with FAT32 written in the middle? Select that with the mouse and press "Delete". That has got rid of Windows, and saved us a lot of money. Now click on "Defaults" and click on "Next" until it is installed, then reboot".
(Teacher now relaxes for the 10 minutes it takes everyone to install Linux) :)
Grow up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has essentially said, "J'accuse. You have unlicensed software. Either audit all your 25,000 PCs in the next sixty days (by the way, that's about 17 computers an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 60 days), or have us do it. If we do it, and find one - count 'em, one - computer out of compliance, you pay for the software you owe, plus the cost of the audit."
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that they're fully in compliance with the licenses, with the exception of one PC some shmuck donated to them last week. Doing the audit is an impossibility for them. If Microsoft does it and finds the one PC, they pay (through the nose) for the audit.
Plus, it's not like Microsoft had specific reason to believe that these guys were out of compliance: the "random" audit, according to the article, targets "the nine largest school districts in Oregon and the 15 largest in Washington."
If a cop busts down your neighbor's door, you don't say "serves him right for stealing people's stuff," until they demonstrate that, you know, the neighbor actually stole something. Don't do it here.
Re:I live in Portland (Score:3, Informative)
One would think so, wouldn't one? But not in a Microsoft world. Microsoft insists on seeing the physical license. No license means non-compliance, time to cough up. What this means is that in the future schools will be forced to stop accepting donations unaccompanied by the proper license. What a shame.
I'm just glad I live in a country beyond the graspings of Microsoft.
Generic software (Score:5, Interesting)
So it seems that generic software, which does almost everything that name brand software does, should be a natural part of the computing world. Yet, where are those generic word processors and spreadsheets and even operating systems? Why is 95% of the desktop market, including these important applications, controlled by one company with nearly impenetrable barriers to entry?
And does this news article point to an example of that very company moving to stamp out a potential insurgence of that generic software? Would we stand for Del Monte moving to shut off the supply of generic branded vegetables on store shelves, especially when someone pointed out that many families couldn't afford the more expensive brand? Why should we stand for Microsoft bringing in jack-booted thugs against schools that have budget shortages?
Yeah, that's inflammatory language. So what?
Re:Generic software (Score:3, Interesting)
Food is controlled by the FDA. Oh yes, sometimes bad food does slip through, but in general, one company's canned food is as healthy as another's, though the flavor, texture, and so on may not be the same.
Software is controlled by... Hmm, software isn't controlled. You stick with a brand name you know will get you software which will let you get the job done.
In addition, even "generic" is sometimes a brand name these days, so "generic" is not the word. Maybe off-brand? Though the assertion that linux was "off-brand" would get you flamed nine ways from sunday around here.
The reason linux hasn't taken the desktop market? It's not ready. Your OS has to be usable by idiots, and supportable by idiots, or it can't be scaled to that much market share without collapsing in on itself. There are too many flavors of linux (competition is good, but all consumers see is a fragmented brand name) out there for prime time. And the apps are simply inferior (in terms of features) to the microsoft, adobe, and so on equivalents.
Linux cannot be taken seriously as a desktop market contender at the moment. It's getting better! But it's just not there.
Also, people don't go to websites to compare two cans of string beans, but they do go to check out the features of different operating systems, TCO, and so on. Computers are just too different from food, you cannot draw any useful comparison.
Microsoft making the case for Linux (Score:2)
With the recent annoucements of user friendly distributions such as Lycoris [lycoris.com] and Mandrake [mandrake.com] (I've yet to give the new Debian [debian.org] a spin), I have been trying to get the office staff of the church I attend to make the switch.
Sure, they won't get ALL the power of MS Word, but then again, THEY DON'T ever really use all that power anyway.
Recently, I had been warning them about MSFT's draconian licensing practices
I'd like, at this time, to thank Microsoft for making my case for me.
Um...M$ as judge, jury, and executioner? (Score:2)
sheesh.
A few Clarifications... (Score:5, Informative)
2. Most Schools purchase their MS software through Volume License agreements which have a clause stating that periodic audits are a term of the agreement.
3. The Oregonian article stated that if schools choose to have MS conduct the audit, they need to pay MS's costs if just one computer is found out of compliance. I believe the actual clause states that they need to be more than 5% out of copliance district wide.
Having stated this, I am an employee at one of these districts and the amount of work is staggering. I thought I was going to be the only Anti-MS zealot to see what a heavy handed tactic this is, so I am pleasantly surprised that many others see it and feel the same way.
FYI...I have posted Anonymously since my e-mail makes it easy to see who I am and which district I work for, and many here don't feel that getting rid of MS software is a good idea.
Keep passing the opem windows...
OT: This page crashes Mozilla 0.9.9 / Linux (Score:2)
Did anyone else notice this? On my SuSE 7.3 with Mozilla 0.9.9, viewing this page (be that online or offline after wget'ing the page) crashed Mozilla! It's not the ads code, I just cut it out and re-opened the disk file, Mozilla still crashed. It's the first time I have this kind of problems with Mozilla, and I'm not amused for it to happen on *slashdot*.
This comment brought to you by konqueror.
Re:OT: This page crashes Mozilla 0.9.9 / Linux (Score:2)
Re:OT: This page crashes Mozilla 0.9.9 / Linux (Score:2)
This message brought to you by Opera.
Protection money? (Score:5, Insightful)
> districts, Microsoft is demanding that they
> conduct an internal software audit to "certify
> licensing compliance." In a March letter, the
> software giant gave Portland Public Schools
> 60 days to inventory its 25,000 computers.
To me, this sounds like Microsoft is threatening to have its goons "audit" the school at a time when the school probably can't afford the staff to do the audit.
> Ah, but wait. Microsoft has an offer it thinks
> you can't refuse, if only to avoid the audit: the
> vaunted Microsoft School Agreement. Under
> the terms of this agreement, a school or
> district simply counts its computers and
> pays Microsoft somewhere in the
> neighborhood of $42 per machine for one
> systemwide annual license.
If the school can't afford the audit, they can pay Microsoft a yearly tribute to not audit them, but they lose access to the software once they stop paying. And they have to pay for even non-Microsoft computers, like iMacs.
> The school districts are considered guilty of
> software piracy until they can prove they're in
> licensing compliance. If the district can't
> drum up the staff to manage the inventory,
> Microsoft is willing to show up with its own
> audit crew, but if a single computer is found
> with illegal or undocumented software, the
> district must pay for the audit.
I wouldn't be surprised if once they get schools into this subscription idea, eventually the annual tribute for Microsoft software for Apple computers will be higher than that of Windows-based computers.
Man, someone should stop them before they become a monopoly!
weird. (Score:2)
Do they have to get some sort of subpoena? before a judge? if so, how is it they seem to be able to get subpoenas easier than the fbi to bust into an arabs house?
I hope they pay... (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, children (Score:2)
Well, they took the free crack, now they are addicted and have to pay the only local dope dealer..
Want to do something about it? (Score:5, Informative)
If anyone else in the Portland metro area is interested, send email to linux-school[at]zerog.net
It would be great to be able to line up a team of people to do migrations / training / auditing. I think there are few reasons why the district couldn't switch a majority of their machines over, leaving only the Windows machines that they absolutely require.
If nothing else, you have the opportunity to possibly reduce your tax burden, both as a resident, and as a deduction for your time.
Whats gives M$ the right to set the time frame? (Score:2)
Plan of Action? (Score:2, Interesting)
Likely the school board probably already has the $500K earmarked to come from somewhere. The education of kids is too important, that's why the convicted monopolist is pulling the shenanigans.
So instead of having bake sales, why not get the communities together to do installfests? If they can get the computers changed over in 60 days, then the schools get to keep the money, albeit in a different PTA account.
Perhaps a template can be designed at Sourceforge that allows for a mass CVS action of doing the installs (keeping track of the installs and the problem computers and etc).
When you're at their mercy... (Score:2)
It's reminiscent of the bind MS's big corporate customers are finding themselves in with the new Enterprise Agreements and their requirements for current software.
Microsoft may not be the last organization on earth to which I wish to give a blank check, but they're close enough.
OK. Now I'm MAD (Score:5, Interesting)
This is going to be a total rant, but here goes.
This time they have gone too far. I live here in Oregon and have three kids in public schools. I work for a state agency which, like many other state agencies in Oregon is undergoing significant budget cuts.
Portland is a bit of a drive for me, but I am seriously thinking about taking some time off and volunteering to go up there and help them audit machines, wipe hard drives, and install Linux clients or whatever they need. In fact, anyone else who wants to do the same could join me in emailing them here [mailto] or maybe the help desk here. [mailto]
Put your money/time where your mouth is.
Schools Should Be Seeded w/ Software (Score:3, Interesting)
My last employer put together a contract for a charter school a few years back for 25 workstations and a server (win95 / winnt), 4 printers and cd-server that never worked (but got hacked a few times). Total bid was about $80K ($55K for machines, $3K for our services and the rest for licensing). I remember thinking what a shame that so much was tied up in licensing (25 workstation licenses; plus Office; plus the 50-user NT license.)
If the licensing had been a little more reasonable, the school would have been able to afford more of our services and we probably would have been able to make their network more useful as a result. I ended up spending a couple hundred hours of my own over a couple years to help nurse things along, but I recall thinking that if the school licensing had been given to the school, they could have gotten a lot more value out of it. Also, since most of the 300, or so students were entering the business world in a few years, having them trained in M$ tools would have been great for the software vendor.
It's too bad M$ doesn't take a different approach to licensing for schools. It would be a great tax write-off and would further proliferation of M$-based skillsets to further promote their software in businesses, where these youths would eventually wind up. Not to mention a much better PR message than this article sends. I hope people consider things like this when the Bill and Melissa Gates foundation offers token contributions for their pet projects. A little perspective....
wow, they even count iMacs (Score:4, Insightful)
If this isn't blackmail and anti-competitive, I don't know what is.
The Tighter You Close Your Fist, CEO Gates... (Score:3, Funny)
The more schools will slip through your fingers!
If schools weren't sure about using Linux, these Gestapo tactics will sway them. I think power has driven Gates insane. This is a stupid move.
Not a "thin client", not a distro (Score:3, Insightful)
Terminal servers are aimed at the same market, so naturally the marketroids have stolen the "thin client" jargon. But it's a totally different technology. Whoever invented the LTSP acronym knew this -- let's all emulate him or her.
And if you actually read the page you pointed to, you discover its not a distro either. Which is actually a good thing, since you can combine it with a distro to run it on a variety of platforms. Hmm, should work with my 386, 486, and Sparcstation doorstops. I should maybe configure it, then donate the result to some public library where they have long lines of people waiting to use the Web machines.
As a NW school techie... (Score:3, Insightful)
However, to those of you saying "Just use Linux," I tried. You know what, administering classroom Linux systems is hard. I was working on a X terminal Linux (then FreeBSD) network at Da Vinci middle school for over a year. It had to be X terminals because the little machines couldn't handle it. The staple computer at FHS is the P166 with 16MB RAM from CTL ("Crap Technology for Losers," as it was called), the middle school had some machines even worse. These machines can handle Office or IE on win95. They couldn't handle X with Netscape/Mozilla or StarOffice. With a server running the programs it was almost usable. However, we didn't have automounted floppy drives working, sometimes samba was flakey, sometimes people would have troubles opening netscape (it was _slow_) or something else happened. The teacher I was working with was really interested and excited, but didn't have the proficiency to be a sysadmin. I didn't have the time to be it, after spending my days at Franklin.
A number of teachers at a school can do basic Windows repair, but paid admins rarely stay at a school for more than a couple of years. The warm fuzzies of working for the public schools did not make up for the lack of pay or the crap they had to put up with ("I need you
Author acting undercover? (Score:3, Funny)
Anybody actually read the agreement? (Score:5, Informative)
iteresting bit is that you must pay for all eligible machines, if they run microsoft software or not:
"School Agreement requires an institution-wide commitment. To that end, you must include all of the eligible PCs in the participating school(s) or district. Eligible PCs include all of the Pentium machines, Power Macs, iMacs or better. You must also include any number of 486 machines or below and any Apple, UNIX, or Windows Terminals on which any of the software will be run."
So if you sign up, then move to something else, you still gotta pay.
Not sure if you pay per package installed (i.e. do you pay for Windows OS on iMac's?)
Microsoft will die in the public opinion. (Score:3, Insightful)
In a civil case people on juries have preconceived ideas about defendants. Right or wrong, people generally place schools in the "good" category. Microsoft will come off looking like a complete ogre.
Many of the computers our poor, under funded schools have come from donated computers. Many of these computers came with no documentation and no original software CDs. By Microsoft's own licensing agreement binds the operating system license to a particular PC. If the person who donated the PC kept the original CDs, the computer still has a license.
These schools need to make this an issue. They need to make sure that it becomes news. Microsoft will be forced to back down or die in the public opinion. After that I would recommend that the schools fdisk every single computer that they own and install Linux.
The marketing arm of Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft is to blame for piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has done nothing meaningful in the past to prevent piracy of their software. They, along with everyone else dropped copy protection on the software. Fine, consumers wanted that. But, on the Macintosh side we see vendors all the time make their software AWARE of other copies of it running on the network. When I install Photoshop TWICE using the SAME registration code, it complains when that second copy is running at the same time. Since my users need to run it simultaneously, I need to purchase a second copy (or disconnect a user from the network...which isn't viable.)
Microsoft, if they really wanted to prevent piracy, would have done the SAME THING. They would have made their applications network aware and they would have checked to see if a second copy was running somewhere. If they had done this, there would not be piracy in the corporate, government, or academic environments to the extent there is today.
It is hard to keep track of every piece of software that an end-user might sneak into your company. Since Windows 9.x didn't have any security, you couldn't stop users from installing it. Because the applications weren't network aware, you wouldn't know when someone installed duplicate copies...not even when an administrator did it.
Because Microsoft did not take reasonable steps to prevent piracy, I think Microsoft should not have the right to force people to audit and payup. At least, not until such time as Microsoft plugs the holes that make piracy so easy.
Re:Microsoft is to blame for piracy (Score:3, Informative)
IANAL either, but you heard wrong.
Play for time (Score:5, Funny)
1. Switch all the PCs off.
2. Invite them in to do the audit.
3. If they ask you if a machine has Windows on, tell them no.
4. If they want to power up the machine, ask them how they intend to power it, as the school board doesn't sell or donate power to third parties.
5. If they want to take the PC away, point out the school policy on theft.
6. If they want to bring in a generator, point out the for safety reasons such equipment can't be used in school buildings.
7. If they want to remove the hard drive, point out the school policy on vandalism.
8. Goto 4.
By the time they've figured out how to see what's on the machine you can have Linux on a sufficient number that licenses will cover the rest!
Still haven't bothered with a
Software Cost better include Compliance Testing (Score:3, Insightful)
I suspect that if the price of software was put in those terms to schools any time they purchased Microsoft software, they might start seriously looking at alternatives. Compared to the base (education) software price, the compliance price might be many times higher.
Besides, what teacher wants to have the cost of the compliance agent subtracted from his budget each and every year?
Get the word out... (Score:3, Interesting)
Many of the schools I've talked to love the idea of using a free & open operating system in their classes, but the thought of moving over to Linux "just becuase" is hard to sell.
Articles like these are the ammunition I need to show these schools the "light" and have them migrate over. If anyone has any articles like this one (involving schools) or good reference contacts I could use, please let me know! (see website for email addr.) I've done the Googling and found some good stuff, but it's always nice to get the word out.
Re:Slashdotted already! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:linux in school (Score:3, Insightful)
It's amazing how much Microsoft relys on users being absolutely scared to death to use something other than windows. If kids learn its not really all that different to use a windows machine as it is to use an Apple or Linux w/ Gnome or KDS, then thats a good thing. Maybe all those single GUI arguments will go by the wayside, too. We should be teaching our kids how to run a computer not exactly what button to click. GUI environments are alike enough that you should be able to teach students the basic concepts that make any GUI workable.
Re:linux in school (Score:2, Insightful)
Even if school is actually just to turn out a legion of docile sheep ready to submit to their supervisors (which does seem likely), do you actually think that someone who can use KDE is going to have more than 2 minutes of trouble figuring out winwhatever? The GUI changed from 95 to 98 to NT 4.0 to ME to XP. That doesn't seem to be a huge problem. And kids have less fear of tech than grownups, so a different UI is less stressful.
Re:linux in school (Score:5, Insightful)
For good or bad, most of these GUI environments are pretty much the same, as is the common software which runs in them. Click on the picture of a printer to print, click on the character in italic to change the font to italic, etc. It's not very difficult to made the adjustment, in my opinion. Figuring out which option is on what menu can be a pain, but that's what Help is for, no?
Besides, if other schools are like the ones local here, all they're teaching is basic stuff that most kids could figure out in an hour or so if the needed to: word processing, spreadsheet basics, etc. Kids come into schools knowing how to use a mouse and keyboard and even if they don't it takes less than a day to teach them. I don't see a real threat to their 'competitive advantage' if they go to a school using Macs or Linux boxes in place of Windows.
The more I keep dealing with computers, the more it resembles a bad redneck romance: constantly flipping between "I love you so much!" and "Baby, why you gotta make me hit you?"
Re:Do the Math (Score:4, Informative)
That is $20 a copy. Deal with it or switch to linux. Yup, those horrible horrible businessmen
I guess you missed the part where they said this is an ANUAL FEE.. Every year the school will have to cough up half a mill to MS for licensing fees.. This is for PC's they already have lifetime licenses for but they don't have the time or resources to prove it.. Just having the fancy little scrap of paper isn't good enough either.. They want invoices to prove it was payed for too.
Re:Something to volunteer for (Score:4, Insightful)
Just go to your local school district, and say "Hi, would you like me to install linux on all your computers, for free?"
They will not want you to. Almost every compsci teacher in a highschool is either
a. convinced there is nothing but microsoft
b. anything but microsoft/apple is illegal
c. Linux is evil
d. Linux is hard
Trust me, I've tried. I brought up linux with the computer teacher at my school, and he said "is that that OS those freakin long haired geeks out in Colorado came up with?!"
I finally did get a full lab setup this year, cause I'm now the tech dude, but no one wants to use it. I made it extremly simple, huge netscape icon, and all they use it for is web surfing. From what I hear it is that the teachers are just to unfamiliar with it.
And don't even think about trying to reteach a teacher. Everyone I've ever tried to teach something to just stares blankly at me like "I didn't become a teacher to learn more shit, go the fuck away!" and either they ignore you, they forget, and the rare few that likes it do come along, but its rare.
Re:Something to volunteer for (Score:5, Informative)
Here is where we (you?) can help. They have cat5 pulled throughout the building, but none of it is punched down or connected to anything because they have no equipment yet. They need PC's, servers, punchdown racks, switches, and people to donate their time if they happen to be in the central Florida area.
If you have stuff or time to donate, please call Jim Durham at 863-299-1189 - he is the one leading the project.
And thanks.
Re:Local schools (Score:3, Funny)