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Adult Gamers and Their Ulterior Motives for Gaming 203

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the passing-the-joystick dept.
twistedcaboose writes "The Philly Inquirer is running a nice little article about why parents game with their children. Seems that adult gamers are still on the rise." From the article: "In a national survey released in January, 35 percent of 501 parents living with children age 2 to 17 said they played computer or video games, according to the Entertainment Software Association. Of those, 80 percent also played with their children. On average, these fathers and mothers - yes, almost half were women - spent 9.1 hours a month gaming with the children."
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Adult Gamers and Their Ulterior Motives for Gaming

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  • duh! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:38PM (#14853955)
    why parents game with their children.


    duh! its easier to defeat a kid..

    • Re:duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MyLongNickName (822545) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:45PM (#14853985) Journal
      Yeah, right. Kids have a lot more free time, and studies show that reflexes begin to deteriorate after 25. It tends to be very slow at first, and depending on your work/hobbies may not be noticible... but I know I've been schooled by teeny boppers on many FPS ;)
      • Re:duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Neoprofin (871029) <.neoprofin. .at. .hotmail.com.> on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:53PM (#14854010)
        Yeah, but kids also seem to know surpsingly little about strategy and tactics. Their nimble little fingers may rule FPSs and fighting games but RTS and TBS will always be the domain of a well sculpted mind.
        • Re:duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Bootvis (913169) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:11PM (#14854063)
          Skilled fps-gamers tend to be smart also. There is actually thinking involved in games like CS and Quake. With good reflexes you can rack up some kills on a public without thinking, but as your opponents improve thinking ahead and predicting them gets more important.
           
            Teamgames also require some good communication-skills
          • Re:duh! (Score:5, Interesting)

            by miyako (632510) <miyako@@@gmail...com> on Sunday March 05, 2006 @03:51PM (#14854320) Homepage Journal
            There is truth to this. I never was into FPS myself, but a friend of mine used to be hardcore into counterstrike. I remember watching him play when his clan was practicing for the CPL and I was baffled by the amount of strategy that they developed. I actually saw my friend kill several people by shooting through objects when he couldn't see anyone, simply becuase they had their strategy worked out well enough that he knew where it was very likely that people would be.
            • Re:duh! (Score:5, Interesting)

              This is why I never got into Counterstrike. I play games to relax, not wind myself up into gordian knots of ultra tension while juggling fifty different variables around in my head only to have someone unexpectedly pull the plug by using a rail gun or nearest cultural equivilent.

              I value my arteries.
              • by Tim C (15259)
                Sounds like a pretty good work out for your heart, yet without any of that pesky, smelly, time consuming exercise stuff...
            • Re:duh! (Score:2, Insightful)

              by jred (111898)
              Man I hate those fuckers. You shouldn't be able to shoot through a stone/concrete wall!!!
              • Don't hide right in a corner, then. Camp just off corners and other natural camping spots instead. There isn't any substantial tactical difference, and people shooting at the usualy camping spots won't hit you, or only your limbs.
        • Re:duh! (Score:3, Insightful)

          HAHAHAHAH!

          You haven't played RTS games lately have you? They figure out what is the uberish unit early on and rush your ass. Which if you're not prepared for totally owns your ass. So you have to play into their hands and they beat you through know every little trick of the game and using tactics they found on a forum perfected for tournament play.
          • Re:duh! (Score:4, Funny)

            by Hogwash McFly (678207) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @04:37PM (#14854455)
            You don't seem to have much luck with games, do you? [slashdot.org]
            • What can I say, I'm English. If I don't get a tea break every round I'm outright offended. I perfer to play in a way everyone has fun and not abusing the games rules to own everyone.

              Maybe it's just me but I'd rather everyone had fun than being top of the leader board. Go figure.
          • I assume you are talking about C&C : Generals. I concur, that game blows, and I refuse to classify it as a RTS title, let alone part of the C&C legacy. Granted, its an EA game, so it makes sense.

            I really knew it was bad when one of my friends stated they love it. This friend hates Starcraft. This friend also dislikes games with story elements. This friend was also able to defeat me in about a minute or two.

            C&C Generals is not RTS. Its a top-down twitch-jerk.

            *sob* I miss Westwood.
        • Re:duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by ShieldW0lf (601553) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @03:11PM (#14854207) Journal
          Yeah, but kids also seem to know surpsingly little about strategy and tactics. Their nimble little fingers may rule FPSs and fighting games but RTS and TBS will always be the domain of a well sculpted mind.

          Don't know about you, but when I was younger playing MegaTF on Quakeworld, we were doing offense vs defense training and tactics twice a week for weekly 12-on-12 CTF league matches. I'm proud to say that at one point, I was the top ranked Pyro in the world, and could use evasion, communication and guerilla tactics to penetrate and disrupt the flow of just about any defensive strategy. I imagine young people today are doing the same sort of thing, and generalizing them as poor thinkers and strategists is both prejudicial and stupid.
          • It's a large generalization, about as large as the gap between the quality of the gameplay between tournament level clans and your average 14 year old on a public server. Knowing a few tricks to keep yourself alive longer and having a predefined cordinated action between multiple players in night and day.

            I would never say that there's no thought invovled, but I would certainly say there's less though, and that's coming from some who played just about every major FPS from the day they were released.
        • Re:duh! (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Sigma 7 (266129)

          Their nimble little fingers may rule FPSs and fighting games but RTS and TBS will always be the domain of a well sculpted mind.

          No.

          TBS and RTS games, at the current level of implementation, follow the "click-on-build-dwarf, attack-with-dwarf-army" click-fest. Some games are worse than others, where there is an extremely early rush tactic that wipes everything out. (Civilization included, since enough militia can wipe out a battleship - and "enough" is suprisingly small based on the combat mechanics.)

          Even

          • Firstly, I would argue that even the 1:05(or whatever they got it down to) Zerg rush takes more mental strain than playing the average FPS. Secondly, not every strategy game is so flawed. You brought up Civilization, which is the perfect example of what happens when you try to make combat a gradual numerical increase in power and defense and then fit real world equivilents over it. A better example all around would be Alpha Centauri where the combat actually makes sense. Wnat to go even further, explain to
            • Firstly, I would argue that even the 1:05(or whatever they got it down to) Zerg rush takes more mental strain than playing the average FPS.

              Once it's obtained, others are sure to follow. It may take some mental strain but only for the first group of times you do it.

              Secondly, not every strategy game is so flawed. You brought up Civilization, which is the perfect example of what happens when you try to make combat a gradual numerical increase in power and defense and then fit real world equivilents over i

              • Civilization used a system where the total attack value is paired against the total defence value. A Militia has a base defence of 1. +50% for veteren, +200 City walls, and +200 for mountains gives an increase of +450% raising the defence to 4. This gives it around a 4/18 chance of surviving a battleship attack.

                Well, even in real life a battleship might not be so good at attacking a walled city in the mountains ;).

                It also means that throwing sticks against Fighters/Bombers is an effective way of driv

        • "Yeah, but kids also seem to know surpsingly little about strategy and tactics."

          What more do they need to know beyond "zerg rush?"
    • I distinctly recall, in late high school, a period when the Virtua Fighter games were all I played. In particular, I thought I had gotten pretty skilled at VF2. I had the run of an arcade and was accepting challengers left and right, then sending them off dejected. . . .that is until a mexican kid that can't have been more than seven years old showed up. They actually had to get the kid a footstool so he could reach the controls. And he cleaned my clock in consecutive rounds. I don't think I've ever b
      • Why did he beat you? Superior endurance, expression, exposition of your intentions, etc?

        If you don't know how you lose then winning is a gamble. The best way to become unstoppable is to find a strategy that is hard to figure out, that way when you beat someone you can still beat them the next time. Basic rules of power, art of war stuff, though I've never read those two.

        Anyway my point is it sounds like he beat you because he cared more, in which case congrats: You have a life. :)
    • Re:duh! (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I am a 50-year-old man from Sweden. Can I game with your child?
    • And when you pwn them, you can get an answer to the question:

      "Whosyourdaddy!"

      "You are, uh, dad"

      I'm a sick, sick man
  • "Darn!" (Score:5, Funny)

    by LiftOp (637065) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:42PM (#14853977) Homepage
    "Darn," mutters 8-year-old Rosemary Corcoran, staring at the 52-inch TV.

    I'd be a little more impressed with that TV, missy. That's your college education you're looking at.

    • 52" TV ~= $2000 = a college education? Where can I sign?
      • If she could invest that $2000 and get a 15% annual return (pretty high, but let's say she gets lucky), she'd have over $8000 by the time she turned 18. That's not too bad for college tuition.

        And frankly, $2000 is cheap for a HDTV that big, especially if it was bought a year ago.
        • a 15% annual return (pretty high...)

          Yes, pretty high. Assuming more than 10% is unreasonable, and most assume more like 8%. At 10%, you end up with $5,200.

          And frankly, $2000 is cheap for a HDTV that big, especially if it was bought a year ago.

          At the moment, Best Buy has 52" projection TVs from $1100 to $2600.

          But what of it? $2K is a relatively small part of any family's budget, especially for something that a fairly long time. I've spent more than that on cable/internet in the last two years. (And, in
  • by antifoidulus (807088) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:43PM (#14853979) Homepage Journal
    and think of a different meaning for the word "adult"?

    Pr0n with my parents would just be a bit odd...
  • Uninsightful (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Austerity Empowers (669817) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:44PM (#14853981)
    People who enjoyed games as kids play as adults with their kids. Shock, dismay.

    People who enjoyed playing football as kids, watch football as adults and live vicariously through their kids playing football.

    The only people who wouldn't expect this are people who didn't play games as kids. They also happen to be the social types with lots of misconceptions about what 'normal' is.

    There's nothing to see here, move along.
    • Re:Uninsightful (Score:5, Insightful)

      by iocat (572367) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:51PM (#14854005) Homepage Journal
      To you or me, it's obvious, but let's give credit when credit is due: after all the pointless, stupid, incorrect, negative articles about games, it's excellent to see some (well deserved) good press.
    • by Jonboy X (319895) <jonathan.oexner@alum.wp i . edu> on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:40PM (#14854131) Journal
      So you're saying the same toys we enjoyed as children, we still enjoy as adults? It seems only natural that we might outgrow...

      Hold on one sec, FunPhone call.

      Yes Goofy, I like talking to you too.

      As I was saying...
  • by Daemonik (171801) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:46PM (#14853987) Homepage
    That brief 24 hour window when I can crush my nephew in a new game before he can devote all his free time to memorizing all the combo-moves and strategy guides. It doesn't matter if I never win a game again after that, the memory of that defeat is seared into his soul. Muahahahahahahah
  • by TooMuchEspressoGuy (763203) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:50PM (#14854002)
    I suppose it may come as a surprise to some gamers whose parents never really supported their habit, but there are those mothers and fathers out there who can enjoy games just as much as their kids.

    Heck, back when I owned an N64 my dad used to get in rounds of Goldeneye and Mario Kart with me and my brother after school. And he had never really touched a game system before, except for brief spurts on the systems that we owned before that (NES and SNES).

    This might even be seen by some as an improvement over the television habit that many parents have and pass on to their kids.

  • All the natural (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tellarin (444097) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @01:55PM (#14854015) Homepage Journal
    I don't get why all this about grown ups playing games. It is all the natural.
    As Huizinga points in his book (Homo Ludens), since 1939 and before, play is part of culture. And play is inevery aspect of our lives.
    • On the contrary. We must be robots, working at 100% efficiency between sleep cycles, Comrade Tellarin!! Play is for the weak. At least until that little pecker gets anywhere near my Team Snipers ranking.
  • Gaming with my son (Score:4, Informative)

    by Bob McCown (8411) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:05PM (#14854040)

    My son, 12, and I often play PS2, or multiplayer PC games together. Crash Team Racing, or Gauntlet on the PS2, and assorted games like Age of Sail II, etc, on the PC. We have fun, and that's what counts.
  • by hattig (47930) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:06PM (#14854047) Journal
    And the TV companies know this, hence they love to dredge up anti-game news whenever they can.

    When I was a kid, I didn't have a computer or console until I was 11, and that was a second hand 8-bit CPC464. My mum played Stockmarket [cpczone.net] with me but that's about it.

    And it is good to have your parents play games with you, it makes it more social, it stops them watching TV (oooh, Timeteam is on, must speed this post up) and probably sharpens their mind a little, counteracting the gradual decline due to everyday life they otherwise suffer.

    It's good for bonding too, too few parents do this. And the parents can see what the games are like and if they're suitable.

    I'm sure it will lead to more rounded teenagers and adults, better able to cope with problem solving and jumping from ledge to ledge, as you do.
  • by zmollusc (763634) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:06PM (#14854048)
    You can bond with your children by sharing the gaming experience. Even when they are too small to operate the keyboard and mouse, they can always wear the headset while playing CS or Battlefield 2. "Tell DethBr1n90r he is a fucking faggot, honey!"
  • Real simple (Score:3, Funny)

    by scolby (838499) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:07PM (#14854052) Journal
    I enjoy pwning my newb children on a regular basis. Best that they learn from me rather than out on the streets.
    • by MyLongNickName (822545) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:17PM (#14854075) Journal
      Man #1: Dad's starting to lose it. Just the other day, he put the milk outside at night, and put the cat in the fridge.
      Man #2: Yea, bro, I've noticed he's getting worse by the day.
      Man #1: Yea, I'm thinking I should get him to move in with me, so my wife and I can watch over him close. Would you mind helping out on the weekends?
      Man #2: Yeah, right!
      Man #1: What do you mean?!
      Man #2: You remember when we played Enemy Territory? And he'd covert ops our asses left and right?
      Man #1: Yea... and he'd always voip over to use "You've been pwned noob! Just cuz he's got your uni on doesn't mean he's on your team. LOL!"...
      Man #2: Send the fucker to a home.
      Man #1: Yeah... what was I thinking?!
  • by ylikone (589264) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:07PM (#14854053) Homepage
    "Planeshift" on the computer and "Heroscape" on the table top.

    He loves them both and so do I.

    http://planeshift.it/ [planeshift.it]

    http://heroscapehq.com/ [heroscapehq.com]

  • What is this "ulterior motive" crap? That summary screams "Conspiracy!!"

    I've been a gamer since the Commodore 64 days. Why do I play them? Because they're fun, perhaps? So many of these articles act like it's shocking that those who grew up gaming are (shocking!) still gaming and (more shocking!) getting their kids involved with gaming.

    Why would I play games with my daughter? Because it's something that we can do together without the rigamarole of Want to play this? No. Want to play that? No. We know what games we like to play as a family, and it's at least better time than just sitting around watching TV.

    Having been a gamer for 20+ years and having a wife who's really not into gaming, this is a great way for me to finally have a gaming partner. Sure, I'm not about to let my 6-year-old play Battlefield 2 (not that she could anyway), but even something as simple as Mario Kart 64 is still fun!

    But for me there's an even more important aspect. Those who don't have kids - and even some parents, unfortunately - might have difficulty understanding that kids want their parents' attention. Yes, I want my BF2 time, but if given the choice between BF2 or some N64 game with my kids, the N64 will win every time. I get to have fun; my kids get to have fun; and I get to show my kids that I'm willing to spend my time doing things with them. That means a hell of a lot more to me (and my kids, I'm sure) than getting a Veteran Support Badge while my kids sit watching TV.
  • by creimer (824291) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:33PM (#14854119) Homepage
    When are we going to have a presidential candidate who will make this promise: "A gamepad in every hand and a T1 line in every home!"
    • by Anonymous Coward
      When you realize that T1 is only 1.5 mbps... and that most home connections already exceed that easily. :P
    • When are we going to have a presidential candidate

      The Belgian SP.A [s-p-a.be] already did. Overhere we don't work with Presidents, but or ministers sortof function like one, so it's about the same.

      In essence, they state a child growing up in relative poverty thus being unable to grow up with a PC and internet is put behind in development and wont get as much chances as a child having access to a PC and information found on the internet as a PC is considered a requirement these days for education and work. So the S

  • by Kilz (741999) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:47PM (#14854151)
    Wouldnt this world be boreing if you had to give up things you engoy just because of age? I am 42 and will never give up gaming. Why? Because I can aford it and I enjoy it. The same reason I have a computer and a ton of other toy's. Being interactive is a lot better than sitting in front of the TV like a lot of people my age.
  • by soricine (576909) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:50PM (#14854154)
    This is a 'national' survey, with a sample size of 500?

    With a sample so small, this is speculation masquerading as data.

    • Um...no.
      Learn statistics before you make statistical claims.
      Seriously, as much as I hated stat this year in college, it was a damn useful class, and everyone should have to take it in high school. Until you actually know a bit about how this stuff works, it's surprising how misinformed you can be. All sorts of stuff is masqueraded as "statistics" in the media, when a lot of it's just plain BS. People have so many misconceptions about stat it's not even funny.

      And yes, it's still true that there are lies,
  • Ulterior Motives (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sdamberger (28313) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @02:53PM (#14854163)
    The only ulterior motive mentioned was to know the content of the games which is certainly a good thing. I like to know what my son is getting bombarded by daily so that I can combat anything I think is negative.

    I just enjoy the games and the time spent with my son. I also like to game with him because it lets me see how he reacts to competition in a friendly environment. I get to give him advice on how to handle winning and losing.
  • by Opportunist (166417) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @03:21PM (#14854237)
    The same reason why my dad got me a train set: He wants to play with it and doesn't want to admit it.

    So they can say "Hey, it's not like I wanna play. It's the kid, and I gotta play with them because, as a responsible parent, I should know what they're doing... Damn, I'm outta rockets."
    • Probably the same reason my dad got me a BB gun, model rockets, chemistry kits, and a bunch of other stuff. He had fun with them as a kid, he had a kid, why not have fun with you kid?

      He didn't get into video games with me much, but it was him who started me on computers. We did play a lot of Sim City and similar games back in the day though. He also got me a GameCube for Christmas a year ago, just what a college senior needed. You never need to grow up all the way.

  • by MikeyTheK (873329) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @03:22PM (#14854239)
    I'm...not young. I remember when Pong was brand new and way cool. First game console: Coleco. The wife isn't young either. We have...several kids. The oldest is eight. She loves to play Halo 2 on Live with Ma or Pa or both. It is yet another way for her to interact with us, and on a more engaging, exciting level. It's constant action, so it's more interesting for them than, say, throwing the ball in the yard or riding a bike. It's also lots of fun for us to play with her because it's a relatively level playing field. It's something we can all do, and nobody sucks any worse at than anybody else does.

    Of course, we also found that we were suffering from "video game tummy", until we stumbled upon DDR (Dance Dance Revolution). All of a sudden there was another game, one that involved some exercise, that also keeps all of us interested, but also draws in the other kids. They all want to play. It's one of the few activities (short of watching "Finding Nemo"...again...) that everyone gets into. Everyone wants in, and everyone has a blast doing it. The game is easy enough yet challenging enough so nobody gets bored or feels like they can't do well.

    I love gaming with my kids. My kids love gaming with me. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than taking them to a game, too!
    • by typical (886006) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @06:14PM (#14854780) Journal
      Of course, we also found that we were suffering from "video game tummy", until we stumbled upon DDR (Dance Dance Revolution). All of a sudden there was another game, one that involved some exercise, that also keeps all of us interested, but also draws in the other kids. They all want to play. It's one of the few activities (short of watching "Finding Nemo"...again...) that everyone gets into.

      Meanwhile, every time a new DDR title is released, thousands of downstairs-apartment-owning tenants cry out in agony...
  • by albamuth (166801) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @03:27PM (#14854254) Homepage
    Back in the day, my dad would give me a bunch of magazines and a Vic-20 with a cassette tape drive.

    "Here you go son, I got some new games for you."

    "But there's only a memory cartridge in the machine!"

    "No, the games are in here," he'd say, patting the stack of magazines. "Let me know when you have something typed, in so we can play together."
  • by Demonspunk (832469) on Sunday March 05, 2006 @03:37PM (#14854287)
    I never thought of having kids for multiplayer purposes... could be quite useful when your buddies are busy.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 05, 2006 @04:38PM (#14854459)
    My kid has a gamecube and a ton of games in his room, but when his little friends come over all they do is beg me to play MAME games on my projector. I have had up to five kids taking turns playing Marvel vs Capcom and the Metal Slug series to name a few. The best part is the adults in the room also get their turns and have just as much fun as the kids with the button mashing. People are cheering and throwing controllers, much better than just sitting their watching a movie.

    As for my kid, he has known me as an addicted Medal of Honor player since he was born. He became fascinated at three by watching me play that and Battlefield. He loved Battlefield but would get auto-kicked off too much for either killing himself to much by driving his jeep to fast or he would just wonder around exploring. Medal of Honor Freeze-tag objective became his game. I explained the rules to him. You get a point for unfreezing and a point for freezing someone, besides that, plant the bomb. He wasn't very good at three but did figure out how to open doors and would shoot someone once in awhile.

    Now at 5, even though he still can't read, on a ~30 person server with ~15/team he is placing in the top 4 or 5 for his team. He gets most of his points by simply unfreezing his teammates, but he also pulls in a good score from freezing. I think his biggest advantage is he is completely unpredictable. What amazes me is that people on the server are always trying to talk to him. He plays so good they don't even realize he is just a little kid whose little fingers have to really stretch across the keyboard to even play. What boggles me is, who are these people that have lower scores than him? I wonder how many other children are out their dominating us adults in games and we don't even realize it.
    • "What boggles me is, who are these people that have lower scores than him? I wonder how many other children are out their dominating us adults in games and we don't even realize it."

      Obviously it IS amazing how quickly some children can learn. And I too always wondered who those people were, until I played with one for some time and when I was dead follwed him and saw his choices. This bad player and many other like him don't play like it is a game, they aren't committed to the objective of the game.
  • The kids would easily beat me unless we play on my old video game [ipal.org].

  • Real content (Score:2, Insightful)

    by andy_t_roo (912592)
    well, prehaps the game industry might now realise that there is demand for more in games than the flashy lights that appease the average 12 year old.
  • Depressing for kids (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 05, 2006 @10:03PM (#14855457)
    I remember playing the Original Mario Bros on Atari. with my dad when I was a young boy. Players are supposed to play it cooperatively, but I started to notice he'd die a lot more often that I did. I then suggested we play competitively: trying to jump on each other and flip the turtles such that they kill the other person. Then I started to notice that I was a lot better, in general, than my dad. Normally, a child will go a pretty long time in his life before he is better than his father at anything, but video games gave me the opportunity to discover rather early on that my father is a normal person who can't do everything well. It was actually a pretty sad realization for a 7 year-old.
  • by ami-in-hamburg (917802) on Monday March 06, 2006 @05:22AM (#14856462)
    I play video games with my son all the time. I think it really helps me to stay involved in his life because of the conversations we have. We tend to talk a lot during play, not just smack, and I can usually keep in touch with what is going on in school, with his friends, trends amongst the teens, etc...

    The only problem that I have is that, IMHO, most 20somethings and younger are button mashers and not actually skilled gamers. They like to think that they're good at games but, again IMHO, not really. They totally lack creativity, strategy and tactics.

    For example, we usually play the football titles. When a new version comes out he'll spend a day or two experimenting with the offense until he finds a handfull of pass plays that he can use every time regardless of what defense is called. He'll practice only those plays until he gets the timing down just right so that no matter what you do his receiver will catch the ball 99% of the time. For the most part, he will totally disregard the running game because, at least I think, he can't time a pattern like you can with pass plays.

    Whether that's a problem with the game or not can be debated. However, it just gets boring when it's the same thing over and over. Rather than try having fun with different alignments, different receivers, running the ball, or whatever, his one and only concern is winning even though, I believe, he sacrifices his pride with timing rather than actually becoming good as something.

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