Vista Pirates To Get "Black Screen of Darkness"

jcatcw writes "Microsoft has just turned on Reduced Functionality mode, worldwide, and sent a letter to OEMs explaining the consequences of Vista piracy. These include a black screen after 1 hour of browsing, no start menu or task bar, and no desktop. Using fear as a motivator, the email warns resellers to 'make sure your customers always get genuine Windows Vista preinstalled.'"

This should end well

"To help protect honest partners and fight piracy, Microsoft will continue to block product keys that are determined to be pirated, stolen or otherwise deemed nongenuine."

So, what is going to happen when M$ screws up and starts blocking products that are 'genuine'? This will happen and I'll bet that the least painful thing that a customer will be able to do is purchase a new copy. I doubt that M$ will go out of their way to check to see if a blocked customer has a legit copy.

"The ad concludes with "Don't risk it!" and "make sure your customers always get genuine Windows Vista preinstalled."

So basically, M$ is going to screw customers if their OEMs screw M$. This should be fun to watch. Just another reason for linux.

Asshats

Re:This should end well

I believe this is referred to as shifting the blame. If you're a customer of the OEM and the OEM is selling you, at full price, pirated software, it's not Microsoft who is screwing you.

Re:This should end well

If you're a customer of the OEM and the OEM is selling you, at full price, pirated software, it's not Microsoft who is screwing you.

Exactly. Whatever your opinions on "information wants to be free" or whatever, if a customer has paid an OEM for software and the OEM installs a pirated version and pockets the cash, this is theft - ok maybe not legally, but this isn't a case of people who would never buy software pirating it, it is a case of people trying to buy the software and the OEM stealing the money.

It's exactly like me stealing your car. You no longer have a car. The OEM has stolen Microsoft's money.

Re:"Copyright infringement".

Actually, it's also "fraud", or "dishonestly obtaining financial advantage by deception", depending on your local criminal code.

NO. It is theft.

If you take someone's money by using a pirated copy of Windows, that's theft of money.

Taking property by knowingly exchanging a false token for that money is theft. Read the law in your state, they are all very nearly the same.

Re:NO. It is theft.

Well split any hair you wish. This LOWERS Vista value to everyone.

I believe that Microsoft will discover that this is a tactic who's unintended consequences include a movement away from Vista - and to some extent from Windows in general.

Apple's moment to strike a hot iron is rapidly upon us.

Re:NO. It is theft.

I wish I could agree that Apple's moment to 'strike a hot iron' is a good thing -- however, Apple is just as bad about vendor lock in as Microsoft is. Some might venture to say worse. Especially in a situation like this where our main gripe is Microsoft's overall control of your computer regardless of the situation. Apple can in theory do the same thing, but so far, hasn't bothered except to make it overly difficult to run their flagship OS on standard off the shelf hardware.

Oh well, maybe someday we'll see a cool thing like Apple's hardware actually becoming as cost-efficient to own as normal x86 hardware...but I don't intend to hold my breath.

Re:"Copyright infringement".

Actually, I think Microsoft should force the user to download security patches. I know most people I talk to think that waiting for software patches is punishment, especially over a slow modem.

"You are required to download 900MB of patches. Estimated time until completed is 8 hours, 23 minutes. Allow us to stream this anti-piracy movie while your computer is inaccessible. Download time now increased to 10 hours, 42 minutes".

Re:"Copyright infringement".

"Let us play this MP3 file you've got here. Whoops! Download time now increased to 13 hours, 15 minutes."

Re:"Copyright infringement".

"Let us play this MP3 file you've got here. Whoops! Download time now increased to 13 hours, 15 minutes."

I realize you made this comment in jest, and I'm certainly no fan of MS, but since you got modded insightful I feel I need to point out the speed reduction chosen by MS was picked to not be noticeable on anything less than a gigabit connection. So, unless you're downloading at over 1Mbit/s from your ISP (and in turn every hop to the MS update servers), there won't be any noticeable change in your download rate.

Re:"Copyright infringement".

Microsoft has some pretty smart people working there.

Microsoft is driven by marketing, not by smart people.

Re:This should end well

Unfortunately, that is not always the case...

We just had a customer in with a Sony laptop (factory install of Vista) that wouldnt boot (complaining it wasnt a Genuine Copy of Windows - please insert Vista CD In the end, this will definitely hurt consumers - as well as pirates.

Here's MS's biggest (upcoming) issue. Their OS is installed on the majority of computers out there... even a 1% failure rate in properly detecting a Genuine copy of Windows smells to me of a MASSIVE lawsuit. I think they are taking quite a gamble...

Re:This should end well

Dissatisfied customers might decide to try something different like Mac OS X or Linux.

Uh, wait a minute, I forgot to take my meds this morning. People won't switch from Windows regardless of how bad the experience or poor the customer support becomes.

Re:This should end well

Dissatisfied customers might decide to try something different like Mac OS X or Linux.

Uh, wait a minute, I forgot to take my meds this morning. People won't switch from Windows regardless of how bad the experience or poor the customer support becomes.

You know, the individual consumer may be dumb, but collectively they're not so dumb. They found and are going for another option: keep your XP while it works (which is for another good 5-6 years).

Then we watch early adopters get hurt by piracy missdetection, bugs, poor resource usage, lack of drivers and incompatibility, while we just enjoy our amazing XP-rience in a brand new way.

As is known for quite some time in the industry, Microsoft's biggest competitor is Microsoft.

Re:This should end well

Quality-wise, wouldn't you consider Windows Me the worst? Even with all the updates that OS was a nightmare.

When I imagine the timeline of Windows releases, somehow ME doesn't even appear there :P

Re:This should end well

Well that's because people want popular software to work as well as it's going to straight out of the box.

Don't forget, the rule of twos:

With windows, it works for two hours and never again.

With Linux, it takes two hours to get it working, then you never have to fuss with it again.

With Mac, you spend two hours finding and app that does what you need, but it "just works".


Going for +5 Funny and falling far short.

Re:This should end well

Unfortunately, it probably wont drive consumers to other OS's... If you spend a couple hundred dollars on additional software, would you just up and switch OS's - and then have to buy all new software to run on the new OS's? And where's your copy of MS Office or IE for _______ Operating System?

Don't get me wrong, I for one am happy with OpenOffice, and many other non-MS alternatives to... well anything... but the average consumer probably won't be - or won't even equate the fact that "If Ford's cars suck, I can just go buy a Honda/GM/Toyota/etc"

Consumers' understanding and perceptions of software as a tool to enable productivity (as opposed to "Internet Explorer IS the Internet, MS Office IS part of/required by my documents") will not change quick enough to allow for any sort of mass migration. Will some people switch? Probably. Will a lot - or even a decent amount? I doubt it.

Would you? Would I? Would anyone computer saavy enough to understand that an app is an enabler - not that a specific app is the be all end all... probably. But that defines a very small part of the computer owning population.

Re:This should end well

Hmmm... nowhere did I say they wont help you... though there are reports of some issues getting that help for these problems.

The situation's resolution ranges (been there, done them all) to one of the below scenarios... in order of how many times I have encountered them (most frequent up top):

• MS helps you (after a lengthy phone call proving you own the license in question, never gave out the key, etc) and you are done (till the next time you fail to validate - which sometimes occurs)
• MS tells you that you have to call the OEM - who tells you (correctly) that you have to call MS - this results in a loop that may get resolved on the 2nd or 3rd or 4th call to MS... OR...
• MS tells you that you have to call the OEM - who tells you (correctly) that you have to call MS - you call back MS, and they insist you must buy another copy of Windows.
• The occassional user gets hit up for $$$$ for the support call - all in order to resolve an issue that was MS's fault to begin with [as I said, been there - for all of these cases... after a lengthy argument, and advising them I'm NOT the customer, but (at the time) CompUSA's Tech Manager, they usually relent and offer to help fix the issue "this time" for free (like they are going to charge me next time and are doing me a favor]

Yes, most of the time MS will help you. But honestly, if this were any other product, would you settle for one of the above hassles? Let's say you had a car and your OnStar system erroneously locked it because IT or GM decided it was stolen... and you had to jump through hoops to prove it wasnt before you were able to do much more than take your stuff out of it, or play the radio...

I'm not assuming they wont help me... I'm pointing out that their method still has flaws in it, and could potentially lead to a lot of angry, fully genuine (ie: HP, Sony, Dell, Compaq, etc) customers, who may end up suing them.

Someone else pointed out "Well, gee, the machine works still... you can still copy your documents off it to another machine... you just cant run virtually any app, or surf the web..." - which baffles me... I think he must be losing his mind if he calls that "working"... a computer isn't a 40lb USB drive. And, even if his position made any sense, not everyone has a spare machine.

Re:This should end well

Both parent posts are largely valid. What they fail to address, and what I believe the the GGP Post was trying to point out is that if a Key is *incorrectly* marked as invalid then they have done nothing wrong and nor has the OEM. Worse, the customer will suspect the OEM and presumably Microsoft will suspect both the OEM and the Customer. That is a quick way for Microsoft's customers, the OEM's, to lose both credibility and trust in the eyes of their customers, the consumer and businesses. Microsoft could hurt their customers by potentially hurting their customers customers. That will lead to a re-evaluation of the risks involved when dealing with Microsoft, as highlighted by recent issues with their WGA servers.

Re:This should end well

if a customer has paid an OEM for software and the OEM installs a pirated version and pockets the cash, this is theft

Perhaps. Would you agree that it is also theft if MS disables a known legit copy? Theft of the price of a retail version to replace it with, or theft of services for however many hours you spend on hold trying to get them to straighten it out.

For whatever reason. Their spyware server screws up, like it did last week. You have to change out the motherboard. You replace the hard disk. None of those are legitimate reasons to break your copy.

It's actually more clearly theft than the first instance. The first instance is copyright infringement (someone made an unauthorized copy, but MS is not then missing a copy, all their real copies still work fine). In the second instance, the legit copy has been sold to you, either directly or indirectly, and when it doesn't work you have no copy. You have a loss. You have additional consequential losses, work time lost, deadlines missed.

Re:This should end well

I'd call it a VDDOS (Vendor-Driven Denial of Service) attack on Microsoft's own customer base.

{sigh} Stupid is as stupid does.

Unintended Consequences

So, what is going to happen when M$ screws up and starts blocking products that are 'genuine'?

It gets worse. Let's take that line of thought a bit further. From TFA:

Titled "Don't let this happen to your customers," the advertisement indicates nongenuine copies of Windows Vista will lose access to key features, have limited access to updates, and thus risk attack from viruses, malware and spyware.

Great. Just what we need: deliberately make some machines more vulnerable to attack. As if those machines are the only ones that will suffer when they get infected.

A malware infection doesn't just impact the infected system's users. Those systems then become nodes in a botnet. They pump out more spam, more viruses, more phishing. They host phishing sites. They could theoretically be used for distributed computing projects... like cracking into paying customers' systems.

What's Microsoft going to say when a large site gets hacked, using someone else's pwned box as a launch platform, and the attacker got into that box because it was pirated, and Microsoft deliberately disabled the update that would have fixed a remote root exploit?

Re:Unintended Consequences

What's Microsoft going to say when a large site gets hacked, using someone else's pwned box as a launch platform, and the attacker got into that box because it was pirated, and Microsoft deliberately disabled the update that would have fixed a remote root exploit?

"This is further evidence that pirating Microsoft products is harmful to all consumers."

Re:Unintended Consequences

"This is further evidence that Microsoft products are harmful to all consumers."

Fixed that for you.

Re:Unintended Consequences

If Microsoft does not shut down the networking on this 'nongenuine' machine than they also just provided alot more CPU resources to the botnet owner. Just think what resources have been freed up by killing the Windows desktop and task bar.

I wonder if the Accept/Deny dialogs will still pop up asking the user to allow installing software to view naked Portman pictures? ;-)

LoB

Re:Unintended Consequences

The problem here is one I've been warning people about all along. Unlike Linux or OS X, when you use XP or Vista, you do not have control over your computer. Microsoft does. All your work is at risk; all your data, workflow, applications, etc. The computer can be told at any time to stop responding to you based upon policy at Microsoft; you accept this behavior when you click OK in the installer. The current event is one example; all they have to do is have another server screwup (they've had several already) where your validation doesn't validate, and you're down. And in this case, as TFA notes, you're down *and* you're letting malware in the door. Which Microsoft will happily sell you software to combat, which is certainly something to consider more than a little cynically.

If you support software that enables the seller to shut it down after you have jumped through whatever hoops you need to to install it, you're at risk. This is true of productivity software such as editors and image processing applications, and it is even more so for an OS, where *everything* you do can be affected. I rejected Windows as a serious use platform for myself and my businesses because of the activation malware as of XP; been on OS X since I left Win98. If Apple ever decides they have the right to shut me down post-install as evidenced by behaviors that we're seeing out of Microsoft today, I'll be running Linux on the desktop before you can say boo. I already run servers on it. And Linux is getting better all the time.

The problem, as always, are the sheep who accept this kind of behavior from bad actors. They form the majority of the marketplace and the rest of us are constantly affected by policies that use the known compliance / ignorance of the majority to inflict heinous policies.

You bought it; you should NEVER be screwed with by the company you bought it from. Not on purpose, and not by misidentification. In the case of Microsoft, they built in the capability to screw with you and have demonstrated they can and will use it. If that's not a wake-up call, I don't know what is.

Piracy is a fact of selling IP. But any non-zero chance of evaluating someone as a pirate when they are legitimate is unacceptable; far better uncountable pirates get away with it than one legitimate customer, that kind person who has supported your efforts, be so accused. Further, computers aren't hobby machines any longer; sometimes our lives, our careers, our family's welfare depends upon them. Don't allow evil actors like Microsoft to take control of your resources. You owe it to yourself and everyone around you.

Re:Unintended Consequences

Well, now that's just silly. I know you're trying to paint him into the hypocrite box, but it doesn't wash. He's selling a product to people that choose to run Windows ... that's their business, not his. The simple economics of the situation dictate that Windows is the best place to make money selling software because so many people have bought into Microsoft's drivel. The fact is that he's smart enough to realize the risks associated with running modern versions of Windows, and chooses not to take those risks himself. That's just good sense.

Re:This should end well

The point is that MS has already messed up, their WGA having falsely identifying legitimate customers as pirates in two separate occasions. So the question you quoted is still valid. So, what is going to happen when M$ screws up and starts blocking products that are 'genuine'? So why are you criticizing M$. it's their business decision to adopt this model. It's their petard to be hoisted upon if it fails. They obviously think it will work and they know more than you. Sure it may fail in cases too, but if the gains are net positive do they care? Perhaps the person is a legit customer using Vista, and doesn't want to see their computers become dead boxes? Sure, MS may end up being hoisted by their own petard, but it will be cold comfort to the folks who have to purchase new OSs, or have to revert to previous OSs, and the perhaps added fun fun side quest of cleaning up a potentially nasty botnet issue. And MS will care if millions of their legit customers switch to something else, be it Mac, Linux, or even going back to Windows XP.

Re:This should end well

Without rehashing the now-old argument about how consumers knew what they were purchasing and what price they were paying at the time ... the company made customers upset, and now it's giving them $100 worth of free stuff. You're only throwing more money their way if you spend more than your $100 credit.

Re:This should end well

So you got jacked out of $200.

Really? Apple stole the money from you? Say you go buy $500 worth of clothes on Thursday, and on Friday the store has a 25% off everything sale. Did they jack you, too? Say you buy a brand new 2007 Ford Mustang this week. Next week the dealership has an inventory reduction sale to make room for the 2008's. Did they jack you, too?

Re:This should end well

Yea,
I've seen people spend 15 minutes of their time to save $2 on a gasoline fillup.
Do the math...

I want an upgrade to Windows XP

I recently wrote about this [gornall.net] ...

Short version: Genuine Vista crapped out on me, screwed up a huge download (twice!) and initially refused to realise it was genuine. Only after installing an Active-X control (God, I hate those) did I manage to get it working (and it only offered that solution the second-time-around).

A sufficiently bad experience that I just deleted the windows VM and installed Ubuntu on a VM instead. So, yes, MS screwed me out of the $300 or so for the 'Windows Vista that is licensed for VMs", but it's the last thing I'll ever buy from them. Anyone want to buy a (used once) GENUINE copy of Vista ?

I don't pirate software. I don't see why I should be inconvenienced (at full price) because MS can't find their backside with either hand - if you're going to deny fake vista installations, then MAKE SURE THE DAMN SOFTWARE WORKS. PERIOD. NO IFs BUTs OR OTHER EXCUSES. [rant over].

Simon, disgusted with MS's attitude.

Re:This should end well

So, what is going to happen when M$ screws up and starts blocking products that are 'genuine'?

What a great new denial of service attack. Get hold of a corporate Vista key, get it blacklisted, sit back and watch the fun. Virtually untraceable.

-matthew