Coinbase Sets Direct Listing Reference Price At $250/Share, Valuing the Company At As Much As $65 Billion (techcrunch.com) 81
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Coinbase, the American cryptocurrency trading giant, has set a reference price for its direct listing at $250 per share. According to the company's most recent SEC filing, it has a fully diluted share count of 261.3 million, giving the company a valuation of $65.3 billion. Using a simple share count of 196,760,122 provided in its most recent S-1/A filing, Coinbase would be worth a slimmer $49.2 billion. Regardless of which share count is used to calculate the company's valuation, its new worth is miles above its final private price set in 2018 when the company was worth $8 billion. Around four years ago in 2017 Coinbase was worth just $1.6 billion, according to Crunchbase data. For investors in that round, let alone its earlier fundraises, the valuation implied by a $250 per-share price represents a multiple of around 40x from the price that they paid. "The Coinbase direct listing was turbocharged recently when the company provided a first-look at its Q1 2021 performance," adds TechCrunch. "As TechCrunch reported at the time, the company's recent growth was impressive, with revenue scaling from $585.1 million in Q4 2020, to $1.8 billion in the first three months of this year. The new numbers set an already-hot company's public debut on fire."
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> No, put your money in beanie babies.
You can't spend beanie babies on newegg to buy a top of the line graphics card at launch.
Re: Why do you want to buy a Shitcoins company? (Score:1)
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> Bitcoin is easily duplicated.
Interestingly, this is apparently why it CAN'T be duplicated.
Also arguably dollars can be duplicated. If you print out bluedollars and don't include anything that would get them confused for our greendollars (that would get you run afoul of counterfeiting laws, and this isn't about that), they are worth whatever everyone agrees that they are worth. Some "local currencies" are exactly like this, and actually have some value as a result.
"bitcoin cash" and "bitcoin sv", alon
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If cryptocurrency values go up, more people buy crypto and so they make money on the buy/sell split and therefore profit.
If cryptocurrency values go down, more people sell crypto and so they make money on the buy/sell split and therefore profit.
They also hold cash that their clients have deposited with them so that the clients can quickly buy crypto when speculating, and so they make money from holdi
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If cryptocurrency values go up, more people buy crypto and so they make money on the buy/sell split and therefore profit.
If cryptocurrency values go down, more people sell crypto and so they make money on the buy/sell split and therefore profit.
The only ways they can lose money while cryptocurrency is a thing are via poor management decisions.
It sounds like you're saying people in the cryptocurrency markets are "buying high" and "selling low". That doesn't bode all that well for the long term prospects of cryptocurrency remaining "a thing" ;-)
But in all seriousness I don't have a problem with the argument that broker can make money regardless of how the underlying asset is fairing as long as people continue to want to trade that asset. But I think that, in order to justify such a huge valuation, we'd have to assume that people will want to b
Re: Is this dangerous? (Score:2)
It sounds like you're saying people in the cryptocurrency markets are "buying high" and "selling low". That doesn't bode all that well for the long term prospects of cryptocurrency remaining "a thing" ;-)
You jest, but the way I see it is that because the supply of bitcoin is essentially fixed, and there are no physical fundamentals, the main thing that influences it's price is demand. The people betting big on bitcoin are doing so based on their belief that more people will be buying bitcoin in the future. More people = higher prices. So far more people have been getting into BTC than getting out.
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Ok I'll bite (Score:1)
in order to justify such a huge valuation, we'd have to assume that people will want to be engaged in feverish trading in perpetuity.
In a world with an ever increasing number of crypto-currencies, how is that a bad assumption?
I was not going to try and buy into the IPO but the more people here issue talking points against Coinbase, the more I think maybe it really is worth that valuation.
If you think about it it is a way safer bet than buying actual crypto, since Coinbase makes money in any scenario.
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In a world with an ever increasing number of crypto-currencies, how is that a bad assumption?
That's effectively the same argument made by any day trader that ever said "This stock only ever goes up how is it a bad assumption to think it might fall?". The historical track record of that argument is not great.
If you think about it it is a way safer bet than buying actual crypto, since Coinbase makes money in any scenario.
Except for the scenario where people want to trade crypt currencies much less frequently than they do now. That could happen because people lose interest in crypto entirely or because it gains enough traction that people start using it as a currency (its stated purpose) rather than as a specula
Nope, makes no sense. (Score:1)
That's effectively the same argument made by any day trader that ever said "This stock only ever goes up how is it a bad assumption to think it might fall?".
Incorrect, a day trader trades on movements in either direction, and is usually out by the end. Someone going long might say that, but even they are likely to have technical exits.
It seems wrong to me to claim people will not be trading crypto feverishly for quite a long time. What could you possibly be basing that on?
That could happen because people
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Sounds like almost all the gold and silver exchanges out there.
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Re: IOU for bitcoin (Score:2)
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> Even riskier, they take your cash and give you an IOU for the crypto while holding the crypto themselves.
Ok, sure, but you can demand delivery of said crypto at any time. It's possible that, like some exchanges in the past, they will at some point be discovered to NOT be holding said crypto. But... why? They have this massively profitable enterprise, why fuck it up hundreds of millions free and clear by trying to steal a billion that they can never spend?
Again, I'm not saying coinbase won't just exi
That is bonkers. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:That is bonkers. (Score:5, Interesting)
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There is an absolutely massive real economy in bitcoin in China. It's one of the handful of remaining tools of Chinese rich and middle class of getting money out of China now that Hong Kong insurance scam path got slammed shut, any hopes of another refloating of yuan are dead and cash mules are cracked down on hard.
Its collapse would likely cause massive ripples in every sector with significant links to Chinese private investment. Including real estate across large Western nations' cities, which has been pu
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That would be the reference to real economy, yes. And it's not like "China can pull the rug from under them" with this, because this isn't "China's money" but "Chinese money". While CCP insists in its propaganda that people and Party are inseparable, reality tends to disagree rather bluntly, and the whole "get your money out of China if you can" trend over last decade is a very good example of it.
The problem isn't that apartments, agricultural fields, industries etc. will somehow magically be moved to China
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Historically China has had a period of social and economic chaos every couple of generations for the last 5,000 years. If that happens they'll get back up, dust themselves off, and go on being China. The Western countries do not have such a good history of recovering from economic collapse.
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Sure. It's just that "chaos" takes a few generations in the best case scenario, and typically involves total collapse of the nation back to its core. And "dusting off" takes another few generations where they re-conquer everything they lost and they begin expanding beyond that.
Nothing that would shake our dear comrades in the East I'm sure. Sure, none of those currently alive will be alive when they have finished "dusting off", and the regime will almost certainly change entirely, but hey, theirs is a great
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You're thinking of Europe. The last period of social and economic chaos in China was the Cultural Revolution, and before that WWII and the Communist Revolution.
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I'm thinking of China as it existed as a civilization over last five thousand years. Your ignorance of its history is showing in your last post.
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To add specifics to the previous post, the previous peak came in 1700s to 1800s, before Opium Wars brought Chinese Empire down. Since then, it was attempting to re-organise first against the Western de facto rule and partitions by everyone from Westerner to Russians to Japanese until the civil war of late 1940s and early 1950s, which were the establishment of the new dynasty.
Cultural revolution was simply one of the attempts of the new dynasty, that being the Chinese Communist Party of doing what every dyna
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That is how real economy usually works, "it's not the medium of exchange, it's the root cause of usage of medium of exchange".
It might set off a collapse though (Score:2)
The problem is we've let our economy function like a house of cards. It looks nice, but it's super fragile.
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Greed is infinite.
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Rule of Acquisition #10: Greed is eternal.
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And it's going to happen fast. Like in an hour, probably in the middle of the night. In fact its guaranteed to be in the middle of the night for a large segment of hodlers no matter when it happens.
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I await the day when Satoshi Nakamoto (or his heirs) decides to cash out his BTC holdings. My understanding is that a dump of as little as $20 million in a day by a single holder will crash the price of BTC by something like 40% (please correct me if I'm wrong). There are a lot of houses in any major urban area worth more than that.
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If his holdings ever move - just one BTC from his or another of the first wallets gets traded - look out below.
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In every story read about the economy over the past ten years or so, every one mentions that there's nothing to stop it from collapsing yet it gets bigger and bigger. When/If it eventually goes flat it's going to be a real mess.
No currency has value outside of the real human productivity that gives it utility as a means of exchanging goods or services. Bitcoin could vanish like a fart in the wind tomorrow and if nothing else was affected then what's actually changed? If all Bitcoin became inaccessible due to some unknown bug and no one could access their wallet, do the gas pumps shut down, does the power grid switch off, and the as
I don't believe Coinbase is worth .5 Goldman Sachs (Score:5, Informative)
They are valuing the company at .5 of Goldman Sach's current market cap. I think that's insane.
Goldman's 2021 Q1 profit was almost 7 billion. Coinbase's 2021 Q1 revenue was 1.28 billion
Moreover I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier for Goldman to create a crypto exchange than it would be for Coinbase to set up asset management, investment banking, market making, sec lending, prime brokerage, and so on
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Goldman Sachs is worth billions because we the taxpayers bailed it the fuck out to the tune of 10 billions. We haven't bailed out Coinbase (yet): that probably makes it probably more valuable in terms of real value.
Re:I don't believe Coinbase is worth .5 Goldman Sa (Score:5, Informative)
Goldman Sachs is worth billions because we the taxpayers bailed it the fuck out to the tune of 10 billions. We haven't bailed out Coinbase (yet): that probably makes it probably more valuable in terms of real value.
You mean the TARP bailout where the US taxpayers received repayment and a profit of about $1.4 billion in nine months?
That was a pretty good deal for the taxpayers.
https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]
"“In just nine months, the taxpayers have been repaid the full $10 billion that the government originally invested, along with $318 million in dividends,” the official said. “And Goldman is repurchasing the warrants for $1.1 billion.”"
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Am I supposed to be glad the high-risk investment into a failing, reckless, mega-financial institution that I never intended to make and that was forced onto me turned out great?
All I'm saying is, if they had failed as they should've without state intervention, they'd be worth nothing today. And you can be sure they'll do it again.
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Am I supposed to be glad the high-risk investment into a failing, reckless, mega-financial institution that I never intended to make and that was forced onto me turned out great?
All I'm saying is, if they had failed as they should've without state intervention, they'd be worth nothing today. And you can be sure they'll do it again.
You should read up on how Hank Paulson strong-armed the banks to go along with the deal, whether they needed it or not.
That's why the strong ones got out of it as fast as they could.
It was a lot less risky an investment than you think. The treasury bought perpetual preferred shares with a fixed price and dividend, and got stock warrants in the deal too. It was structured to earn a significant return until the shares were repurchased, make a big profit as share prices went up, and be first in line to recov
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Plus it doesn't even seem to be very good at what it does, so it's not a particularly good service. After the Elon tweets a few months ago made the news a friend asked me if I knew how he could buy cryptocoins. I told him I heard "coinbase" is one of the reputable ones. He got back to me that he has been trying all day, it shows support for his country, but the supposed confirmation SMS never arrive so he can sign up. Out of curiosity I tried myself, registration flow seemed fine, until I had to choose a pa
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Plus it doesn't even seem to be very good at what it does, so it's not a particularly good service. After the Elon tweets a few months ago made the news a friend asked me if I knew how he could buy cryptocoins. I told him I heard "coinbase" is one of the reputable ones. He got back to me that he has been trying all day, it shows support for his country, but the supposed confirmation SMS never arrive so he can sign up. Out of curiosity I tried myself, registration flow seemed fine, until I had to choose a password and it gave me an error message locking me out for 24 hours due to "too many log-in attempts". Yeah, great error response while registering a password - go figure. 2/2 people in different countries not able to register for completely different technical reasons is a small sample, but quite a bad one.
Maybe if they get a few billion they can hire a couple of competent software engineers?
I started creating an account but abandoned it at "Provide your bank account login credentials".
That's completely unacceptable. Every other broker I've used does ACH or wire transfers, they don't ask for my bank login.
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I don't think you were on the right site.
Well, do a web search for "Coinbase asks for my bank password"
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You could say or have said the same for Tesla vs Ford, Amazon vs Walmart, etc. Time will tell soon enough. And if you feel that strongly about it, you should short Coinbase. :)
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You could say or have said the same for Tesla vs Ford, Amazon vs Walmart, etc. Time will tell soon enough. And if you feel that strongly about it, you should short Coinbase. :)
Amazons IPO market cap was 300 million:
https://www.benzinga.com/gener... [benzinga.com]
Will you be buying Coinbase at $250/share?
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Remember - it's not about how much it's actually worth, it's about how much you can sell it for.
Just so long as you're not the last one holding the hot potato, people can still make billions of off inflated prices like this whether they last a day or several years (e.g. Tesla).
It's far more about getting out while you're ahead, before "reality sinks in", than anything to do with the actual numbers chosen.
Reconsidering (Score:1)
They are valuing the company at .5 of Goldman Sach's current market cap. I think that's insane.
Actually, when you put it that way, the price seems pretty reasonable - crypto is getting more an more popular by the day, and Coinbase is I think by far the largest portal to that for most people.
Still not going to buy any IPO stock myself, as I think a market crash is imminent.... but I'll bet a lot of people see that initial IPO price shoot up.
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LOL. Judging by everyone's user id numbers, you should all get off my lawn and stay away from my guns and bitcoin!
But yeah, Slashdot was the first place I thought would be welcoming an *opensource* *decentralized* *digital* currency. So many angry, toxic and closed minded people who can't admit they're wrong. Sad to see everything go downhill on this site. Not surprised at Reddit's success...
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This was exactly my sentiment to reading recent articles on green energy solutions or digital open source currencies. /. used to be populated with true nerds interested in cryptography and novel solutions to problems. Now it's populated by pro-fiat trolls, anti-EV trolls, and even a surprising turn of very pro-State trolls advocating for fear and against scientific advancement.
Really, it's just trolls and the articles are just bait for the most part. It is disappointing. Gizmodo and Engadget were great for
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Bitcoin is interesting technically and interesting socially (in that its value has gone so high), but as long as the 3 main structural issues remain I believe that it will not be used as day-to-day currency. These are that
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Latest: $364 / $95B Valuation (Score:3)
The latest from MarketWatch (12:09 PM ET): "Coinbase stock indicated to open around $364, implying a valuation of roughly $95 billion"
A 50% valuation increase the day of the IPO? I wouldn't be surprised to see a LOT of short action at those kinds of prices.
*no subject* (Score:1)
250 ... (Score:1)
pf